raffik
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Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:13 pm

Found a very interesting article from last week which details information about MEA's CEO traveling to the States to discuss the resumption of Transatlantic services to America and to allow American carriers to resume air services to Beirut. Sounds as if the talks are a lot more advanced than they have ever been. IF the ban was lifted, which airlines would start flights? It would no doubt be very profitable- so much traffic that is currently routed via Paris and London, Rome etc.

Here is the article..

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/12953/
- Alec
 
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:30 pm

as far as the american airlines go... i think initially it would be a DL 763 or 330 from JFK. maybe as a thru flight from DTW. down the line, possibly a UA 787 flight from EWR.
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:54 pm

Why not ME with one of their A330's?
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
Viscount724
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:57 pm

Considering the situation in Syria and recent spill-over effects in Lebanon, it won't happen anytime soon.
 
klwright69
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
Considering the situation in Syria and recent spill-over effects in Lebanon, it won't happen anytime soon.

I doubt it has anything to do with that situation. I think the market is just too tiny.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 4):
I doubt it has anything to do with that situation. I think the market is just too tiny.

Market is too tiny....It is not tiny at all. But it may not be high yielding. I think MEA can easily pack a daily flight from DTW, JFK and LAX (and YUL) during the summer season and at least 3 weeklies during the winter.

But even if the political and the security situation is taken care of, I wonder how profitable such routes would be given that most pax to BEY from North America are VFR.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:31 pm

I see DL with JFK-Beirut, possibly ATL-Beirut, because of Skyteam buddy, MEA. Also MEA from Beirut-JFK. And since UA seems to have their ME flights mostly from IAD, I'd say IAD-Beirut; I can even see a lot of diplomatic personnel on the IAD idea.
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raffik
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 4):

I doubt it has anything to do with that situation. I think the market is just too tiny

I would doubt that- the number of Lebanese who live in Canada and America that travel backwards and forwards
all the time is why Air France operate 777-300s daily to Beirut. Most European airlines that are servicing Beirut
are benefiting from carrying Lebanese onwards to Europe or the Americas.

Air Canada was on the verge of launching services from Montreal in 2003 with a 767 4 times weekly but it was pulled by the American authorities at the 11th hour.

I find it odd that Beirut has the appropriate safety checks to enable direct air services throughout Europe but not America.
- Alec
 
klwright69
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:20 pm

I should have said it's a tiny market in terms of people paying for high price tickets and business class. A lot of vacationers won't be enough to justify the route.

Ethnic ties are probably an insufficient reason for a nonstop flight.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:16 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 7):
why Air France operate 777-300s daily to Beirut

I disagree somewhat, there may be lots of connecting passengers, but there are also lots of local traffic, Lebanon and France have strong ties, it is a "brother country" as we say.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
it is a "brother country" as we say

...a former French colony as we say...
 
AR385
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:20 pm

I wonder if a flight to MEX would work. We have a huge ethnic Lebanese community in major parts of the country. They are pretty well off too, probably in the top tiers of the income percentile in the country, and I know that many go over there often, for business and leisure. Strangely, the ones I know choose LH via FRA, but I´m sure many connect thourgh AM or AF in CDG.
 
raffik
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
I disagree somewhat, there may be lots of connecting passengers, but there are also lots of local traffic

Lebanon and France do indeed have very strong ties but a large percentage of travelers transit at CDG for other destinations.
I think the current flights from Beirut- Paris are 4 daily services, all widebodied B77W,A340, A330 equipment.
I read here recently that Beirut was Air France's second most profitable destination..
- Alec
 
SCQ83
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:48 pm

Are Lebanon-Canada flights allowed? There are tons of Lebanese people in Canada as well.

If they are allowed (and since there are no current flights LB-CA), it might be a good proxy of whether Lebanon-US flights would be profitable.

However with the security situation deteriorating there, I certainly can't see any US carrier flying to Lebanon in the near future. Does MEA have planes with the range to fly to the US? I just checked their destinations and they only fly short and medium haul routes.

Btw, which is the current longest route flown from BEY? It seems there is no long-haul at all from BEY from any foreign carrier either.
 
behramjee
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:49 pm

The market sizes between USA metro cities and BEY is not big at all...in fact JFK-BOM is bigger than USA-BEY altogether !!!

See below for the past 1 year:

JFK/EWR-BEY...33,000 pax
LAX-BEY...24,000 pax
DTW-BEY...22,000 pax
BOS-BEY...17,000 pax
ORD-BEY...7,000 pax
SFO-BEY...7,000 pax
MIA-BEY...7,000 pax
IAH-BEY...7,000 pax
DFW-BEY...4,000 pax
ATL-BEY...3,500 pax

Taking this into consideration, it is not worth it at all for any airline to operate nonstop between USA and BEY. Operating a one stop code share service via Europe is a far more cost effective way to handle the passenger flow.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:55 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 14):

Thanks for the data... very clarifying information I would say  
 
yegbey01
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
I disagree somewhat, there may be lots of connecting passengers, but there are also lots of local traffic, Lebanon and France have strong ties, it is a "brother country" as we say.

No one can discount the local traffic. I know that Air Mediterranee also flies between CDG and BEY. And I think MEA MEA wants to protect that market as they fly to GVA and hook up with AC's flight to Montreal, so they can serve the local market and also provide a seamless connection to YUL (by codesharing with AC) while keeping more seats available for the O&D market.

But if MEA ever gets the nod to fly to YUL, they will quickly shed flights to

Quoting behramjee (Reply 14):
The market sizes between USA metro cities and BEY is not big at all...in fact JFK-BOM is bigger than USA-BEY altogether !!!

See below for the past 1 year:

JFK/EWR-BEY...33,000 pax
LAX-BEY...24,000 pax
DTW-BEY...22,000 pax
BOS-BEY...17,000 pax
ORD-BEY...7,000 pax
SFO-BEY...7,000 pax
MIA-BEY...7,000 pax
IAH-BEY...7,000 pax
DFW-BEY...4,000 pax
ATL-BEY...3,500 pax

Taking this into consideration, it is not worth it at all for any airline to operate nonstop between USA and BEY. Operating a one stop code share service via Europe is a far more cost effective way to handle the passenger flow

These numbers make very little sense. Do you mind providing a link to the source!

based on this, on average only 9 people travel from theSF Bay area to BEY every day....hard to believe.
 
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OA260
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:12 pm

Sadly this won't happen anytime soon. The issues over security will be a barrier. Direct flights from BEY into the USA would need high level security that it currently has not got. On flights into the EU they don't even allow liquids to be sealed by BEY duty free (that was the case last year). Maybe MEA could fly BEY-SNN and use the pre clearance facility and a security check carried out before flying onto the USA. That's the only solution I can see in the current climate or a stop at CDG might work given the ST connection.

Would be good to see MEA in the USA one day though.
 
behramjee
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 16):
These numbers make very little sense. Do you mind providing a link to the source!

based on this, on average only 9 people travel from theSF Bay area to BEY every day....hard to believe.

The source is SHEPHERD system. These are the cold hard facts whether believable or not.

FYI market size between YYZ and BEY is 29,000 pax, YUL-BEY is 74,000 pax, YOW-BEY 18,000 pax, YEG-BEY 11,000 pax and YYC-BEY is 9,000 pax. YVR-BEY is very small...only 3,000 pax over the last year.

This is why AC has been longing for so long to re-launch B767-300ER operated flights nonstop from YUL to BEY which they were very close to doing so in 2004 until the Bush Govt interfered.
 
raffik
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 13):
It seems there is no long-haul at all from BEY from any foreign carrier either.

The longest flight was until recently Malaysia Airlines from Kuala Lumpur operated by 747/777/330 equipment but I believe they canceled these at the start of the Arab spring

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 13):
Does MEA have planes with the range to fly to the US? I just checked their destinations and they only fly short and medium haul routes.

MEA operate A330s capable of operating long haul. Their longest haul to Africa is in excess of 07hs 30mins.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 16):
These numbers make very little sense. Do you mind providing a link to the source

I agree- would like to see the source of these figures as they seem extraordinarily low.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 17):
That's the only solution I can see in the current climate or a stop at CDG might work given the ST connection.

MEA's New York service used to operate via Paris





With regards to the security situation at the airport, I have always felt that the security checks are incredibly tough.
A car boot check before entering the airport facility, bag xray before getting to the check in desks, immigration check and then another bag xray scan before getting to the departure gates. And finally a body scanner before entering the jetway..
that is much more than I have ever had at Sydney, Heathrow, New York or San Francisco.
If the checks are adequate enough for airlines such as British Airways, Air France, Alitalia, Emirates etc, they should be enough for American carriers? In either case, it is telling that an American delegation traveled to Beirut airport to inspect security facilities.
- Alec
 
yegbey01
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 18):
The source is SHEPHERD system. These are the cold hard facts whether believable or not.

FYI market size between YYZ and BEY is 29,000 pax, YUL-BEY is 74,000 pax, YOW-BEY 18,000 pax, YEG-BEY 11,000 pax and YYC-BEY is 9,000 pax. YVR-BEY is very small...only 3,000 pax over the last year.

This is why AC has been longing for so long to re-launch B767-300ER operated flights nonstop from YUL to BEY which they were very close to doing so in 2004 until the Bush Govt interfered.

Thanks Behramjee!!! Very enlightening figures. I have lived in Edmonton and Toronto so I have a sense of those markets, but I assumed that BEY - DTW market would be closer to that of Montreal.
 
airxliban
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:48 am

Despite whatever efforts el Hout, Aridi and the US Ambassador to Lebanon are making I am pretty sure that by the time this issue gets elevated to the real decision makers in Washington, they will not agree to an air service agreement with Lebanon, especially now.

Anyway, I agree with what others have said - the biggest beneficiary of this would be AC flying YUL-BEY.

I doubt that MEA can operate directly to JFK with the current equipment anyway, not for range reasons but reason I do not believe that their A330s have a crew rest, which you'd probably need for a flight of that duration. Not an unsolvable problem but nonetheless something to consider.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:40 pm

That "chart" doesn't really say anything...daily, yearly, monthly? JFK-BOM is mentioned but there is no ref to it with any numbers. Remember, too, a "fact" doesn't have to be "true." A fact is merely a statement that can be proved/disproved. People often forget that...especially now for us in the USA with the "facts" being thrown around in our political season.

Why would Bush (or the US) have any bearing on Canada flights to BEY? We don't have a dog in that fight. If that were the case we'd prohibit YUL-HAV, too...I'm not sure I understand that. I'm open to learning if someone can speak to it.

As for crew rest--different airlines and countries require different things in terms of "crew rest." MEA may not have a "bunk requirement" in place. That isn't reason enough to not run a flight.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 22):
Why would Bush (or the US) have any bearing on Canada flights to BEY? We don't have a dog in that fight. If that were the case we'd prohibit YUL-HAV, too...I'm not sure I understand that. I'm open to learning if someone can speak to it.

This has been well discussed and documented over the last 7 years or so. AC pulled that flight on the eve of its launch due to security concerns (you make of that what you will, but most believe that the US does not trust the security at BEY and therefore could not allow a plane originating in BEY to travel near its airspace). I think AC had their plane drop off pax in BEY and then ferry to LCA for a few hours - change crews and then hop back to BEY and pick up pax). They also planned to have multiple levels of security in the boarding area - similar to most US bound flights from overseas.
 
flyyul
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:14 pm

The issue is that demand between North America-Lebanon is constrained due to lack of available capacity/connecting options. As a result yields (especially in peak) are quite high. No doubt YUL-BEY would be a really popular service and would weaken AF's position in Montreal considerably
 
yegbey01
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:20 pm

^But I think AC is pretty happy with the MEA code sharing arrangement especially through GVA. Seamless connection.
 
vlad1971
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 21):
I doubt that MEA can operate directly to JFK with the current equipment anyway, not for range reasons but reason I do not believe that their A330s have a crew rest, which you'd probably need for a flight of that duration. Not an unsolvable problem but nonetheless something to consider.

US AIRWAYS A330-200 operating to TLV from PHL do not have the crew rest either . They just block few seats by exit rows for them . I do not think this is an issue for MEA 330's either .....
 
airxliban
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting vlad1971 (Reply 26):

US AIRWAYS A330-200 operating to TLV from PHL do not have the crew rest either . They just block few seats by exit rows for them . I do not think this is an issue for MEA 330's either .....

Depends on the length of the flight and what MEA's work rules require. Not sure about the FTL that ME pilots work under, but under CAP 371 rules you can only extend your maximum duty period by 1/3 of the time rested with seats blocked off, whereas you can extend the duty period by 1/2 of the time rested with crew bunks. Not sure what the exact calculations for MEA are but it could potentially pose an issue.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
raffik
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:09 am

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 27):
but under CAP 371 rules you can only extend your maximum duty period by 1/3 of the time rested with seats blocked

The FARs mandate that on all flights over 8 hours but under 12 hours block to block that a 2 man flight deck have 1 relief pilot. On all flights over 12 hours must have 2 relief pilots. For Flight attendants, there are no federally mandated crew rest requirements.

The FARs also DO NOT stipulate that on 8 to 12 hour flights, an airline has to provide some sort of crew rest facility, however, on 12+ hour flights, an airline must provide adequate bunk facilities.

I am not sure how long Beirut to New York would be, but taking El Al's flight schedule from nearby Tel Aviv, the non stop service is just over 12 hours. I am sure that MEA could retrofit a crew bunk to their existing A330s. If any resumption of flights were to be carried out to New York they would need additional aircraft anyway because their fleet of A330s are already stretched to the limit.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 14):
The market sizes between USA metro cities and BEY is not big

Assuming your figures are correct, we could safely assume that flights to Beirut would be from just one airport-
New York's JFK, with Delta funnelling passengers throughout the States onto a single Beirut flight.
Add that to passengers they would have coming from Canada which has huge numbers of Lebanese there plus Delta's service to Brazil and you would easily find that there are enough passengers to fill an A330.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 5):
But it may not be high yielding

Beirut is not a low yielding destination. Flights to the city are very highly priced, from the UK direct flights range from £500 in the winter to £650 in the summer months for what is only a 4.5 hour flight. It is over double that of a British Airways fare London to New York and as much as a low season round trip from London to Sydney (as low as £650).
That is also taking into account that there are up to 3 flights per day on the route- 2 A321s and an A330.

Ofcourse, whether or not the American government approve the airlines permission to operate the route or not, I am not sure. Things in Lebanon are on high alert with activities in neighbouring Syria spilling over at times but this instability in Lebanon is pretty normal- people there are used to conflict and instability. At the end of the day, unless problems there were very bad, Lebanese will always travel back to Lebanon in the summer and winter.
- Alec
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:27 pm

By the way, any idea on who has inspired ME's new livery? I find it extremely disappointing compared to the old one, especially on the A330's. It just takes all the seriousness out of the aircraft with those disgusting feminine lines. I remember they did the same thing in the SNCF (French railways company), they started to color some engines in pink...common.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Airlines#Fleet (photos on the right).
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
raffik
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:50 pm

I prefer the new livery to the one it replaced but I prefer the earlier ones from the 1970s. Classic!
- Alec
 
yegbey01
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 28):
Beirut is not a low yielding destination. Flights to the city are very highly priced, from the UK direct flights range from £500 in the winter to £650 in the summer months for what is only a 4.5 hour flight. It is over double that of a British Airways fare London to New York and as much as a low season round trip from London to Sydney (as low as £650).
That is also taking into account that there are up to 3 flights per day on the route- 2 A321s and an A330

You can always fly on Turkish, or Cyprus (and way back in the day - Malev, Czech) and get a much cheaper price. I think it is quite normal to pay a little more for the non-stop flight. Remember that a large percentage of fellow passengers on those same flights are connecting from North America. So the, as they normally do, will charge you a higher price on the non-stop. Plus BEY has a high insurance premium that airlines must pay. You factor that in and bingo you will get a higher price in the fare - but may not produce a high yield for the airline itself.

That aside, if and when MEA gets the nod to fly to North America, I think YUL is for the sure the top candidate and then followed by JFK.
 
raffik
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm

I thought the higher insurance premiums for airlines operating to Beirut stopped in 1995?

Yes,non stop is sometimes more, but not always.
I remember flying many times on JAT and Olympic, they were always the cheapest.

Agree, Montreal and then New York.
- Alec
 
ASA
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:43 pm

I think security will be MUCH bigger concern than market for BEY-JFK ... for now.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 18):
YUL-BEY is 74,000 pax,

Time for TK to step in and take a piece of the pie!!!   
 
KFlyer
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:31 pm

I think Behramjee's data source is MIDT, which is the most used airline market data system worldwide. I'm quite certain that the data are correct (airlines sometimes do operate flights between similar sized markets provided the transit feed is strong enough) - and as has been said earlier, the lack of services could be largely due to the lower yield of VFR traffic - which seems set to leave you without even covering the variable op cost (fuel+variables).
The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
 
flyyul
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:36 pm

Lack of service has nothing to do with yields but rather the inability of airlines to operate from North America non-stop due to security concerns
 
raffik
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:53 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 33):
Time for TK to step in and take a piece of the pie!!!

Everyone is taking a piece of the pie! Air France, British Airways, Alitalia, Lufthansa, Egyptair, Royal Jordanian, Turkish..

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 34):
and as has been said earlier, the lack of services could be largely due to the lower yield of VFR traffic

The lack of service is now due to the travel ban between the two countries. Before the war in Lebanon MEA operated the flight 3 times per week with 747s- this is when the annual number of passengers was in the region of 634,000 . Now the airport receives almost 6 million passengers annually. Traffic was actually up 11% for the first half of this year despite the various problems.

It is often difficult to find a seat to Beirut during the summer when vast numbers of Lebanese travel back to visit friends and relatives. The instability in the country will not deter Lebanese from traveling back to Lebanon. They are used to the political ups and downs. It would take something a lot more serious to stop them. As for the average tourist, it could be more damaging.

With regards to the annual figures, flights could be sold to New York through Delta connecting to an MEA flight.
Delta's network from JFK is quite big and includes Canada and South America which have massive Lebanese populations.

The fact that MEA's chairman has gone to so much effort - flying to Washington to speak to the American government and with the American government actually visiting Beirut airport to survey the security measures in place would be something of an indication that the airline can foresee that a transatlantic service would work.
I am sure they are privy to atleast the information that Behranjee has, if not more detailed and comprehensive material and a route feasibility plan.

Time will tell but it is a step in the right direction for the airline and country, particularly with the airline joining SkyTeam.
- Alec
 
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b727fa
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 23):
therefore could not allow a plane originating in BEY to travel near its airspace)

Thank you for the quick and dirty reminder...I remember hearing that now. Thx.

Quoting raffik (Reply 28):
The FARs mandate that on all flights over 8 hours but under 12 hours block to block that a 2 man flight deck have 1 relief pilot. On all flights over 12 hours must have 2 relief pilots. For Flight attendants, there are no federally mandated crew rest requirements.

But MEA wouldn't be subject to US FAR's on rest and/or seats/bunks.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
airxliban
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RE: Possible Resumption Of Beirut-USA Flights

Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 28):
The FARs mandate that on all flights over 8 hours but under 12 hours block to block that a 2 man flight deck have 1 relief pilot. On all flights over 12 hours must have 2 relief pilots. For Flight attendants, there are no federally mandated crew rest requirements.

That would be true for a US airline (plus whatever the labour unions negotiate) but I do not know what the rules for MEA crew are, it depends on the what the Lebanese CAA mandates.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos