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Speedbird741
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:13 pm

RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting na (Reply 42):
If it comes to capacity the 77W is even a downgrade.
Its bad for the high-yield passengers also, as the 77W cannot compete with the 747 upperdeck as well as the nose compartment. In F/C and B/C give me a 744 over a 77W anytime.

As the 77W will be replacing the 52J 747-400's that operate BA15/16, there will be a reduction of 41 World Traveler seats, an increase of 8 World Traveler Plus seats, an increase of 4 Club World seats, and no change in the number of First seats. There will be an overall reduction of 29 seats and quite possibly an increase in yield targets. This is overall not an upgrade or a downgrade. It is perhaps an increased focus on the premium segments of this route.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 45):
How is replacing an aircraft with an older on board product with an aircraft with the latest on board product not an upgrade?

For regular First and Club World passengers it will be a downgrade without doubt. There is simply no substitute for the nose or the upper deck of the 747 as far as privacy and feeling of exclusivity. No 77W, no A340, no A380. There is no substitute for those zones on the 747 and regular passengers very much appreciate them. As for the World Traveler cabins, where there is a noticeable change in hard product, it will be an upgrade.

Speedbird741
Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
 
aamd11
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:23 pm

Can this even be considered a downgrade/downguage? This isn't the first time BA have used 777s on SYD... I don't know the specifics, but BA were sending 772s on a regular basis for a while, I'm sure. In that context, depending on the specifics of when/how many, a 77W would be a capacity upgrade.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 48):
Doesn't LHR-SYD use up effectively three planes at a time given the duration and turnarounds? How many 77W s does BA currently have, or will have next year?

I guess they can just switch some aircraft around. Off the top of my head HKG takes up 2 frames and ORD is still operated by a 77W. They could switch those back to 744s since they can probably better absorb the 747s operating costs than SYD can - ORD being a shorter (and probably higher yielding) flight and HKG being, well, HKG!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 25):
Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
Definitely a downgrade, from the Queen of the skies to a light twin !

...a light twin that can fly the same payload about an hour farther than the 744?

And 15% more cargo space and much lower fuel burn. And in terms of weight, MTOW of the 77W is about 100,000 lbs. lighter than the 744. The difference is roughly the same as the empty weight of a 737-800.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:27 pm

"For regular First and Club World passengers it will be a downgrade without doubt. There is simply no substitute for the nose or the upper deck of the 747 as far as privacy and feeling of exclusivity".

To be honest, when the curtain is closed, it really doesn't matter if you are in the front end of a B773 or B744.
 
boysteve
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41):
SYD is currently a Worldwide route. If it went Mixed Fleet I wouldn't be too surprised though because of the potential cost savings.

OK, I understand there will be cost savings on a crew fleet change, but what is the % saving in operating costs? And my operating costs I mean all costs including fuel. Peanuts perhaps? The move to an aircraft with lower CASM surely dwarfs any change in FA's cost base for the journey/
 
TC957
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:58 am

I see this move as a considerable commitment to the route and an on-board product upgrade. Remember a daily LHR-SYD will use up 3 new 77W aircraft which could have been used on other daily high yield high-business demand services, where the aircraft is away only a day instead of two and a half days.
Will BA be getting their remaining 2 77W's delivered in time for April ?
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
Definitely a downgrade, from the Queen of the skies to a light twin !

Yeah........... Wait, what??!! Light twin? What twin, where, is heavier than a 77W??

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):

That's a purely subjective view. IFE is not the be all and end all of the travel experience.

Fair enough. Any book by Peter Hamilton and/or window is all the IFE I really need/want.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):

There is no finer way to travel than the queen of the skies.

That would be true if there were no such thing as an MD-11.

Quoting 9MMPD (Reply 47):
So with the 77W replacing the 744 to SYD that ends BA 747 operations to Australia after how many years?

My entire life, at least. And I have gray hairs now.
Well, you know what they say. Whatever doesn't kill you...
... Must not be an MD-11.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:37 pm

Quoting boysteve (Reply 55):
OK, I understand there will be cost savings on a crew fleet change, but what is the % saving in operating costs? And my operating costs I mean all costs including fuel. Peanuts perhaps? The move to an aircraft with lower CASM surely dwarfs any change in FA's cost base for the journey

Oh I agree entirely. I'm not advocating that they actually move SYD to Mixed Fleet. Indeed I have entirely selfish reasons for hoping that they never do. I was just agreeing with Madhatter that there would be some cost benefit in doing so.

As for the % difference, only someone deep inside Waterside could answer that question. However, it is interesting to note that "expensive" routes such as HKG, NRT, SIN, BKK (and, yes, SYD) have all remained at Worldwide. Given the amount of money earned for serving these routes I would have assumed that they would have been among the first to change, but apparently not. This makes me think that the cost savings aren't that great after all. That said, Mixed Fleet would only need 1 night in HKG (and presumably NRT etc as well) whereas Worldwide require 2 - so there is a massive cost saving just there. In short, the whole thing is very confusing!

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):
There is no finer way to travel than the queen of the skies.

Presuming that you're referring to the A380, I couldn't agree more  
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
vv701
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 50):
For regular First and Club World passengers it will be a downgrade without doubt.

More often than not - 18 occasions out of 31 during last October - BA15 has been operated by one of the twelve BA 'Mid J' 744s that are still and will remain fitted with the old 'F' Class cabin. So "for regular First Class passengers" the introduction of the 77W on this flight will give them the surety of travelling in the new F cabin with the Thales i5000 IFE System instead of the probability of travelling in the old F cabin with the outdated Rockwell IFE system.

Similarly all J Class, all W Class and all Y Class seats in the BA 77W are all fitted with this Thales System which has the capacity to offer more than four times the number of channels than the Rockwell System in the 744s in addition to access to literally hundreds of CDs and programmes.

Some may regard this as a "downgrade" preferring the ambiance of the upper floor 744 cabin (provided they are one of the minority - up to 20 out of up to 52 - seated there). But it is just possible that others would prefer the New to the Old F Cabin and, particularly on a long journey like LHR-SYD, the significantly increased options offered by the Thales in-flight entertainment systems.

Personally I have to assume that BA did their homework before spending tens of millions in retrofitting the New F Cabin and new Thales IFE System to all their long haul fleet excepting those aforementioned twelve 744s. I assume these twelve aircraft are not being retro-fitted with this upgrade - sorry, I should have said downgrade - as they are scheduled for early replacement,
 
bill142
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RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:46 am

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Why is that an upgrade? Poor 747 .

It's not an upgrade it's a down gauge.
 
tonystan
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:39 am

Personally I think this is great news for the route.

This is a low yield route for BA and also uses the most resources taking a single aircraft out of circulation for up to 3 days when it could have done several rotations on a more lucrative route. So now not only having a superior onboard product, it also burns significantly less fuel on a route that BA can barely hang on to as it is. Surely this is a good thing?

Heaven knows Id rather be on the new 777-300 then having it back on the old 777-200 like before!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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BNE
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Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 9:37 pm

RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 33):
SYD 744 to 77W... it's the beginning of the end...

The end will come eventually but it still might be 5 - 10 years away, I am sure BA still have a good market for premium passengers and slightly smaller 77W will be a better fit, there is going to be a few Australians or British who would rather transit SIN instead of DXB.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 34):

Maybe its time for BA to do something different to beat Emirates at its own game. How would the 77W work if the flight was nonstop LHR to Perth ? With the booming business in westsern Australia may be BA should think outside the box of its traditional flying directly to east coast Aussie cities. BA Sydney passengers could be flown by Qatar or perhaps with Cathay over HKG.

I can't see BA flying LHR-PER, I would think that Virgin Atlantic or Virgin Australia would try the route first and it won't happen until Perth finish upgrading their airport.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
AIR MALTA
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: BA Upgrade SYD To 77W & Move To T5

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:34 pm

Quoting BNE (Reply 62):
The end will come eventually but it still might be 5 - 10 years away, I am sure BA still have a good market for premium passengers and slightly smaller 77W will be a better fit, there is going to be a few Australians or British who would rather transit SIN instead of DXB.

I rather think that BA and MH will set up a kind of JSA where they will cooperate for flights from Europe to Australia. This way BA can keep their single LHR-XXX-SYD flight.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)

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