SIA To Increase Copenhagen Services

megatop · Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:56 am

SIA is to increase Copenhagen services from 3 times a week to 5 times a week.

http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/...K/press_release_news/ne121101.jsp.

This is good news from SIA. Then they just need to change the B777-200ER to B777-300ER

The B777-200ER needs a "kind hand", as they are becoming rather old in the SIA world.

Megatop

ARN · Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:22 am

SIA stated last winter in the public statement preceeding this JV that a new service to Stockholm-Arlanda would be inaugurated if markets conditions allowed it.

Apparently this is not the case. The Stockholm region looses 2,3 mrd SEK annually due to lack of intercontinental links, stated in a report from Stockholm Regional Council.

http://www.flygtorget.se/Aktuellt/Artikel/?Id=9495

LAX, ATL, PHL, SIN, JNB are on the wish list, among others.

Given the problems with SK one wonders why some major Swedish banks extended some loans to the Scandinavian carrier this past weekend. One scenario could be splitting SK into three new companies.

Swedish business environment would probably be better served with a legacy carrier based at ARN. All those billions pumped into SAS could instead have been the start up capital for a new carrier. Lower salaries and ambitions to make ARN a hub in cooperation with Stockholm-Arlanda and Swedavia.

A new carrier could focus on North-East Asia and one Gulf destination, where passengers in cooperation with the local carrier, could transfer to SE Asia and Australia.

Possible longhaul destinations could be JFK, NRT, DXB or AUH or BAH, PEK and one or two other destinations in Japan or China and environs. TPE and CAN currently not served from the Nordic region.

Personally I like SK though. Great service and reliable. But one wonders about the strategy from the two major Swedish banks, Nordea and SEB?

infinit · Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:24 am

Any idea how they are doing on CPH? I reckon there isn't much business travel or O&D pax between SIN and CPH, probably a lot less than AMS. But I could be wrong

copenhagenboy · Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:50 am

Indeed great news, the first step in the JV.

AngMoh · Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 2):
Any idea how they are doing on CPH? I reckon there isn't much business travel or O&D pax between SIN and CPH, probably a lot less than AMS. But I could be wrong

Both Y and J are normally quite full but J is not too many seats on 77Es. Y is normally noisy with many Danish and Swedish tourists enjoying free alcohol...

I think an upgrade to 77W is a waste of plane for this tourist route.

changyou · Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:21 pm

SIN-CPHvv are usually pack with tourists going onwards to resorts around south east Asia region. Of some will continue on to Australia n New Zealand

EBGflyer · Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:39 pm

Quoting megatop (Thread starter):
SIA is to increase Copenhagen services from 3 times a week to 5 times a week.

I wonder if SK, AC (and SQ) have looked into offering fares with connections in CPH to/from USA/Canada thereby not just limiting the JV to Scandinavia.

The layover times in CPH wouldn't be ideal, but not that bad either:

Asia->North America: SQ352 arrives into CPH 7.25am and flights to IAD, EWR and YYC leaves less than 5 hours later.
North America-> Asia, SK arrives 7.10am from both IAD and EWR, AC from Toronto 10.45am. SQ351 leaves 11.20am.

Another thought I had was whether SQ26 (JFK-FRA-SIN) could be routed through CPH instead of FRA. Not sure yields on the FRA-NYC sector are very favorable for SQ, but of course there are pax going all the way from USA to Asia v.v. For those passengers it wouldn't be a disadvantage flying through CPH (route is actually 200 miles shorter). At the same time the CPH-SIN sector would get more demand in both ends. SK could decrease EWR to daily instead and use the capacity for something else.

Of course ARN would be a candicate in this aspect as well

[Edited 2012-11-01 05:41:27]

changyou · Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:20 pm

[quote=EBGflyer,reply=6]Another thought I had was whether SQ26 (JFK-FRA-SIN) could be routed through CPH instead of FRA[/quot
FRA and NYC are a huge financial hub for SIN and SQ. Am afraid CPH does not justify the yield for SQ as much as FRA can. Furthermore LH feeds SQ pax to various cities from FRA.

nethkt · Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:29 pm

I'd say poor SK. Not only the middle eastern carriers are stealing their pax.
Both SQ and TG are also doing good job increasing their flights and pax.
Agree with B77W instead of 77E for SQ. But I guess it's suffice for competition of this route.

copenhagenboy · Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting nethkt (Reply 8):
I'd say poor SK

Why? This increase is planned and possible because of the joint venture between SK and SQ.

LondonCity · Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting nethkt (Reply 8):
I'd say poor SK. Not only the middle eastern carriers are stealing their pax.
Both SQ and TG are also doing good job increasing their flights and pax.

Yes, the Gulf carriers are now moving into Scandinavia.

And TG offers flights to BKK from three Scandinavian capitals (Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm) whereas SK departs from only one (Copenhagen) and that route will be axed next April. SK says it will bring back CPH-BKK for the winter season ... but with SK's current financial problems, I wonder if it will happen ?

B747forever · Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting ARN" class="quote" target="_blank">ARN (Reply 1):
Apparently this is not the case. The Stockholm region looses 2,3 mrd SEK annually due to lack of intercontinental links, stated in a report from Stockholm Regional Council.

http://www.flygtorget.se/Aktuellt/Artikel/?Id=9495

LAX, ATL, PHL, SIN, JNB are on the wish list, among others

Well how do they explain that we both had ARN-ATL and ARN-PHL nonstop services not too long ago and both got axed?

windshear · Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:25 pm

That's great! More big birds coming this way... Keep 'em coming pls :p

Boaz.

EBGflyer · Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting changyou (Reply 7):
FRA and NYC are a huge financial hub for SIN and SQ.

Of course they are.

I'm not suggesting axing any of those. My thought was of course to keep FRA nonstop from SIN, but to route the tag-on to JFK through CPH instead. As I mentioned, I'm not sure SQ is actually making a lot of money between FRA and NYC as yields are not very favorable (they are downgrading the A380 to 77W soon), but of course there are pax that would fly NYC-SIN and they probably wouldn't mind laying over in CPH instead.

LondonCity · Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 13):
I'm not sure SQ is actually making a lot of money between FRA and NYC as yields are not very favorable (they are downgrading the A380 to 77W soon),

But there will be more SQ J class passengers flying SIN-FRA-NYC when the SIN-EWR non-stop flts are axed later next year,

danielkandi · Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting megatop (Thread starter):
This is good news from SIA. Then they just need to change the B777-200ER to B777-300ER The B777-200ER needs a "kind hand", as they are becoming rather old in the SIA world.

So true. I had a flight on theirs to Singapore and the seat was as hard as the worst KLM seats on their 777. Things like these has made me not chose Singapore now.

g2scandinavia · Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:48 pm

Congratulations to CPH and a well deserved increase!

It's good to see an airline fighting increased competition with a better product, in this case increased frequency.
I think SAS was more or less forced to enter an agreement in order to fight Finnair to SIA, Emirates and Qatar's massive capacity increase to CPH. With Emirates also knocking on the Scandinavian door again, it just makes sense. I'm just surprised the governmental approval took so long!

The only thing who does not makes sense her is ARN. I would love to se more services from ARN, but the way SAS circles out the markets in Scandinavia does not improve my feelings for that airline. In 2011, ARN had 32.254 pax to Singapore and from OSL the number was 34.516 pax. Norway are one of the largest foreign investors in Singapore within shipping, lawyers, finance and banking. Only Houston have an higher percent of business pax from OSL than Singapore (well over 50%). Surveys made by OSL shows that the average fare from OSL to Singapore are significantly higher than from ARN. (the same way Shanghai have higher average fares from ARN than OSL). If you look at the total number of arrivals to Singapore from Scandinavia it was 97.000 visitors last year. Statistics presented by Norway and Sweden gives a clear picture that the market to Singapore is almost identical in size from DK/NO/SE.
Choosing ARN over OSL is a political move to fight Finnair and has little to do with the local potential to SIN.

http://www.swedavia.com/PageFiles/76...B6kning-Arlanda%202012%20(eng).pdf
http://www.osl.no/en/osl/businesstob...s/_airlines/50_Route+opportunities

According to Singapore Airlines, OSL are their largest market in Europe whiteout a direct service.

If Singapore Airlines launches Stockholm, it will be a fantastic contribution to Stockholm and also well deserved.
However with SAS alliance with SIA, it's so too much politics and strategy involved to make most Norwegian embrace it!

Norway have everything to learn from Danish politicians lifting route development on the agenda of foreign affairs!

SIA747Megatop · Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting megatop (Thread starter):
This is good news from SIA. Then they just need to change the B777-200ER to B777-300ER The B777-200ER needs a "kind hand", as they are becoming rather old in the SIA world.

SIA will soon refurbish the 77E's that plough routes such as CPH, AMS, IST, CPT-JNB with the current long haul business product (1-2-1) and these should be progressively introduced in Q1 2013.

lax888 · Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 17):
SIA will soon refurbish the 77E's that plough routes such as CPH, AMS, IST, CPT-JNB with the current long haul business product (1-2-1) and these should be progressively introduced in Q1 2013.

That sounds great. Can't wait for that. I flew last month CPH-SIN-CPH and whilst the seat was ok, it really makes a difference if one can lie fully flat instead of at an angle. However I must say that for such an old product it still is quite good in comparison to the SK seat in Business or the TG angled-lie-flat seat.

However will they decrease the C class even more then? Currently there are 30 seats in C with a 2-2-2 layout. If they would do a 1-2-1 layout this would mean that there are only 20 seats left in C unless they reduce the Y cabin a bit.

changyou · Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:28 pm

[quote=EBGflyer,reply=13](they are downgrading the A380 to 77W soon[/quote.
This is to better utilise the 380 according to demand. It does not mean FRA-JFK is not raking high yield for SQ. SQ26/25 had seen the 744s/77Ws/388 and soon back to 77Ws and still running strong. CPH is only 5 times a week...But are there enough frequencies and aircrafts with suitable cabin configuration for SQ to run CPH-JFK/EWR with a profit? I remember MH pulled out of ARN-EWR coz they were bleeding despite their load was good.

SIA747Megatop · Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting lax888 (Reply 18):
However will they decrease the C class even more then? Currently there are 30 seats in C with a 2-2-2 layout. If they would do a 1-2-1 layout this would mean that there are only 20 seats left in C unless they reduce the Y cabin a bit.

Correct, the new configuration on these aircraft will be 26J 236Y.

Edit: So far, we're looking at a mid January EIS.

[Edited 2012-11-01 18:08:22]

CiC · Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:41 am

Quoting ARN" class="quote" target="_blank">ARN (Reply 1):
Given the problems with SK one wonders why some major Swedish banks extended some loans to the Scandinavian carrier this past weekend. One scenario could be splitting SK into three new companies.

Swedish business environment would probably be better served with a legacy carrier based at ARN. All those billions pumped into SAS could instead have been the start up capital for a new carrier. Lower salaries and ambitions to make ARN a hub in cooperation with Stockholm-Arlanda and Swedavia.

Stupid question:
Isn't the legal body of SILA still existing in the SAS construct? Or have they changed it since the Scandinavian countries founded SK in 1946?

Same for DDL and DNL...???
So that a split might be easy?

CXfirst · Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 20):

Correct, the new configuration on these aircraft will be 26J 236Y.

Edit: So far, we're looking at a mid January EIS.

Any info on update to Y-class?

Also, do you know what their refurbishment schedule is like?

Say, if I booked a C-class flight in June, what would be the chances that I would get new product (will it only be on a couple planes by then or most of the subfleet?)?

-CXfirst

Carpethead · Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:19 am

Quoting ARN" class="quote" target="_blank">ARN (Reply 1):
Possible longhaul destinations could be JFK, NRT

Off topic, but yes NH with their 788 would be the ideal candidate for NRT-ARN.
If SK gives up NRT-CPH, then NH might fill in with 788 or 772ER.

sas767 · Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:52 pm

Back on topic.

The planned increase on the CPH route is great news for Copenhagen Airport. Behind the scenes a lot has been done to secure the additional frequencies from Singapore Airlines - overall this is of much greater significance than just two new weekly frequencies on this route. It might not be a coincidence that Singapore Airlines in their press release did not mention anything about Stockholm, but instead decided to use the wording: "New services between Singapore and Scandinavia will also be explored, subject to market conditions."

All in all yesterday was a happy day at the marketing department at Copenhagen Airport as also indicated in the official press release from CPH:

CPH/UK/Newsroom/News/2012/Singapore+Airlines+expanding+to+Copenhagen.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cph.dk/CPH/UK/Newsroom/Ne...rlines+expanding+to+Copenhagen.htm

Let's hope that we in the near future will see daily SQ flights to CPH

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