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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:25 pm

Very pleased to see a BA Club Europe again to TFS, April is offering a £488 return,quite reasonable and good timings.  
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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richardw
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:26 pm

If the loss of a tag impoves the utilisation of a wide-body aircraft to two sectors within a 24 hour period or better, once per week, 52 weeks in a year, it is worth something.
 
vectismanpaul
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:23 am

Many thanks to all for contributing to this thread. A very interesting read.
Interesting to hear Willie Walsh say yesterday that 'IAG will seek to develop a “more aggressive” plan for operations at Gatwick, a focus for leisure flights and point-to- point services that don’t link up with long-haul operations' Looks like there is more to come for BA Gatwick. Also on one slide shown at the results presentation yesterday it was said that Gatwick's cost base had been reduced to that of lower cost operators which will bode well for further expansion and newer aircraft.
Great to see Tenerife and Arrecife back. Maybe Palma, Madrid and others to follow. Also during summer there may be demand for higher yield passengers flying to such places as Corsica-just me speculating!! Fort Lauderdale has often been mentined too as another long haul possibility. Interesting times ahead.
Keep the news and views coming.
Thanks again
V.
 
trintocan
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:56 am

Quoting richardw (Reply 46):
Will BA do anything with the increased efficiency of the aircraft utilisation LGW-ANU-LGW gives?

I recall reading that the flight will go on to UVF instead, thus ensuring that both UVF and ANU remain daily. UVF will have 6 weekly nonstops to / from LGW, with 5 continuing to POS and one to GND, plus the once-weekly LGW via ANU.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
vectismanpaul
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:49 am

Any news yet about another operating taking up the Manchester-Gatwick route? I do believe there is a market out there despite the trains!!
BA services to Manchester this Winter from Gatwick are actually more business friendly on key days of the weeks allowing full working days in both cities. Would be great if this lead to better yield and to BA rethinking their plan to axe the service. I suppose I am finding idea of no Gatwick Manchester service difficult to get used to!! Been using it since the BCAL days in the late 70s!! (I was merely a baby then of course!!)

V.
 
heebeegb
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:50 am

vectismanpaul

" Also on one slide shown at the results presentation yesterday it was said that Gatwick's cost base had been reduced to that of lower cost operators which will bode well for further expansion and newer aircraft. "

Do you have a link to your source?
 
vectismanpaul
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:00 am

Hi there
Follow this link and then download The Capital Markets Day Presentation 2012.
The comments re Gatwick were made on a webcast that I have been unable to download but listened too. If anyone has a download for the webcast or the analysts question and answer session I would be grateful.

http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-presentations

Thanks V.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:59 pm

On Slide 60 of last Thursday's IAG Capital Markets Day 2012 presentation accessible here:

http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-presentations

IAG said

"Good progress to secure a competitive cost base - we now have a core cost base at LCC levels at Gatwick"

This could certainly explain why BA are launching new holiday destinations that many of us thought they had surrendered to the likes of U2..
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:51 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 57):
"Good progress to secure a competitive cost base - we now have a core cost base at LCC levels at Gatwick"

R U B B I S H

They still have many more times the customer services staff on the books than easyJet who outsource *all* handling.
Spin, spin, spin, however they are getting there, however let's not overstate the case(!)
 
vv701
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 58):
Spin, spin, spin, however they are getting there, however let's not overstate the case(!)

We do not know the spoken words at the presentation when this slide was on the screen. But if you consider their words 'good progress' and 'core' and your words 'getting there' there may not be so very much difference between your and their view that you might at first have thought.
 
by738
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 58):
R U B B I S H

They still have many more times the customer services staff on the books than easyJet who outsource *all* handling.
Spin, spin, spin, however they are getting there, however let's not overstate the case(!)

Someone really has an exaggerated bee in their bonnet about BA at LGW....
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:10 pm

Oh not at all. I think a dose of reality is needed in business. British Airways do not, and cannot have a loco or near loco cost structure. Lounge access and customer service staff and the fact they sell connecting flights prevents that.
I enjoy using BA at LGW although with the demise of MAN-LGW, I will be using them less.
The raison d'etre of short haul appears to be as a focus of Avios redemption.

That's not loco either. However thanks for your invaluable contribution, as ever it was, well it was posted.
 
richardw
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:33 am

Quoting vectismanpaul (Reply 52):
....during summer there may be demand for higher yield passengers flying to such places as Corsica-...

Corsica was a Sunday morning rotation with GT and is with U2

London Gatwick to Corsica (Bastia)
Dep Sun, 16 June 2013 06:20
Arr Sun, 16 June 2013 09:35
Flight 8735

Corsica (Bastia) to London Gatwick
Dep Sun, 23 June 2013 10:05
Arr Sun, 23 June 2013 11:15
Flight 8736

so would be easy for BA to drop a rotation to a poor performing destination on a Sunday morning and replace it with BIA.

Although some of the former GT passengers on this route may have already migrated to Titan Airways' charter service from STN and won't go back to BA.
 
heebeegb
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:28 am

BA operated Bastia charters from LHR this summer on Saturdays

BA9238/BA9239 London Heathrow – Bastia.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 63):
BA9238/BA9239 London Heathrow – Bastia

This flight was operated for Mark Warner Holidays on nineteen Saturdays last summer. The first flight was on 26 May, the last on 29 September.

This was but one of seven different Saturday charter flight series operated by BA out of LHR last summer either for Mark Warner Holidays (two to RHO, one to each of BJV and CAG as well as to BIA) and for Sardatur Holidays (to CAG and OLB). The final two flights from these seven series were operated on 3 November to BJV and RHO.

These flights had the advantage over any additional weekend flights from LGW in that they were oprerated on a day of relatively low aircraft utilisation for the LHR fleet. So they did not require the cancellation of any other flights as has been suggested could happen at LGW. However if operated from LGW there would have been the option of positioning an aircraft from LHR instead of cancelling an LGW flight. But operating direct withouit the positioning flights was obviously the lower cost option.
 
jet72uk
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:26 am

I can't beleive for a minute that LGW-MAN will not be serviced. Would rather BE over EZY. Maybe EI? Surely a deal was done before BA pulled the plug?
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:38 am

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 65):
I can't beleive for a minute that LGW-MAN will not be serviced. Would rather BE over EZY. Maybe EI? Surely a deal was done before BA pulled the plug?

I can only see BE operating the route, although not highly probable as BE are axing ABZ-LGW soon...

In another development, BA is adding a 5th daily flight to AGP this summer on days 1-34567. Flights depart LGW at around 21:10 and come back at around 03:00 the following day.

FAO gets a second flight on day 3 going to 9 weekly all in all. Flights to LCY are axed.

RAK is going from daily to 5 weekly (12-45-7).

IBZ is going from daily to 9 weekly with additional flights on 5 and 6.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
richardw
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:49 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 66):
In another development, BA is adding a 5th daily flight to AGP this summer on days 1-34567. Flights depart LGW at around 21:10 and come back at around 03:00 the following day.

What's your source for this please?
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am

Quoting richardw (Reply 67):
What's your source for this please?

BA.com online timetable...
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
richardw
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:08 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 66):
In another development, BA is adding a 5th daily flight to AGP this summer on days 1-34567. Flights depart LGW at around 21:10 and come back at around 03:00 the following day.

FAO gets a second flight on day 3 going to 9 weekly all in all......

RAK is going from daily to 5 weekly (12-45-7).

IBZ is going from daily to 9 weekly with additional flights on 5 and 6.

Some of this appears to be peak high summer period only.
 
Joost
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 36):
Hopefully they do as gthe BA aircraft are far infrerior the the mian competitior at LGW (Easyjet).

In what way? I flew G-GBTB and G-DOCY last summer on the AMS-LGW route and found the interior of the airplane very decent. Of course, it wasn't brand new, but it was clean and the seats were nice.

For operating costs, I've heard a couple of times that for short flights (domestic, AMS), the 734 is still a competitive airframe next to the 319 and 320, because of it's low weight: typical OEW for a 734 is 33,200 kgs, A319 40,800kgs and A320 42,600kgs. On longer flights, the superior aerodynamics, engine efficiency and wing span of the A320 make it a more efficient airframe, but on short hops, the 734 isn't that bad at all.

So I expect the A320s to be used on routes like TSF, SKG and TIA first.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 70):
So I expect the A320s to be used on routes like TSF, SKG and TIA first.

Don't they get A319s on a summer only basis?
 
vectismanpaul
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:34 pm

It has been suggested by others that Gatwick will see more A319s from early next year. Anyone got anymore news about this. Pleased to see the recent route announcements and increases in frequency on some routes. I wonder if there are any more announcements to come. Maybe when BA relinquish the slots they have to at Heathrow (as part of BMI takeover conditions) next summer and also using more of those ex BD ones for new long haul flights we may see further changes. Interesting times.
Many thanks for all the news and information provided so far.
V.
 
goldcrest
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:16 pm

Have heard that 6 former BMI A319s will be based at LGW.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting goldcrest (Reply 73):
Have heard that 6 former BMI A319s will be based at LGW.

If they use 6 former A319s will that mean more services and routes or will they start retiring some 734s?
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:38 am

I am surprised IAG has not mandated BA to fly LGW - MAD in order to connect SE England (and CI) markets better with IB international departures from MAD.
 
heebeegb
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:38 pm

I know it was pre-IAG however, when BA used to operate LGW-MAD the number of connections onto IB were very very small
 
vectismanpaul
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:22 am

Still very quiet about possible replacement carrier for Manchester-Gatwick.
I have read elsewhere that since the announcement by BA of their decision to suspend the route loads have been healthy!!, I know that doesn't mean yield has improved. Has anyone got any information to back this up? Maybe it has been helped by improved timings for day trips on certain days of the week. Still have a hope they will reconsider but I appreciate that current environment means tough decisions. Maybe they could have set up an arrangement with a carrier like they did with Eastern on the LCY-Isle of Man route. Guess I will have to accept and move on!!
On another point does anyone know how the Short Haul 767 cabin refurbishments are going on at the Gatwick Maintenance base?
Any more news regarding the number of A319s being based at Gatwick next Summer?
With the lighter timetable at the moment short haul schedules are running well at Gatwick. Seasonal Geneva is back in early December along with a series of ski charter flights to a couple of destinations. Shame this service cannot be all year round.(Geneva that is!) Even a daily to complement Heathrow would be welcome.
On some routes BA seems willing to really compete with Easyjet but on others it holds back. Again I guess its commercial and maybe BA doesn't want to dilute services that it also runs from Heathrow too much. But still impressed that Easyjet can run up to 4 services a day to Rome and Geneva from Gatwick!!
I am not at all anti Easyjet but think its important that no carrier dominates too much. We do not want to end up with a Stansted situation where a carrier like Ryanair dominate to such an extent others are nervous about having a go.
However Gatwick is more competitive than Stansted.
As always views,opinions and news appreciated.
V.
 
tomkell92
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):

I can confirm that this isn't going to happen. My dad works for BA CityFlyer and he has said that the airline is not allowed to compete on any routes that BA mainline operate high yields to. They are mainly business oriented and not allowed to operate any aircraft with more than 100 seats as they fear it will interfere with BA mainline.

I think CityFlyer will remain at LCY for some years to come.
Tom
 
GSTBA
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting vectismanpaul (Reply 77):
On another point does anyone know how the Short Haul 767 cabin refurbishments are going on at the Gatwick Maintenance base?

The 767 refurbishment program which is being carried out by the engineering team at LGW has been going well. The program is on track to be completed sometime in late Feb or early March.

G-BNWA - Refurbished Cabin Fitted (Returned to Service 08/11/12)
G-BNWB - In Progress (Currently at LGW expected to return to service around 05/12/12)
G-BNWX - Refurbished Cabin Fitted (Returned to Service 18/06/12)
G-BNWZ - To be Refurbished
G-BZHA - To be Refurbished
G-BZHB - Refurbished Cabin Fitted (Returned to Service 10/10/12)
G-BZHC - To be Refurbished

Quoting vectismanpaul (Reply 77):
Any more news regarding the number of A319s being based at Gatwick next Summer?

BA are planning to begin to retire there fleet of 737 during the S13 season, with 3 to 4 aircraft expected to be withdrawn from service by the end of 2013.

The start of the summer schedule will see BA hand back a number of LHR slots as agreed as part of the BD merger. This is expected to free up a small number of airbus aircraft. The plan is to transfer the aircraft to LGW during S13 were they will be used to replace the 737's exiting service.

The exact number of A319's that will operate from LGW next summer and the routes that the aircraft are expected to operate next summer is expected to be announced early in the new year. Personally I think we will see between 6 and 8 Airbus aircraft operating from LGW during the summer peak period.
 
babybus
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 29):
Just booked a round trip to Gatwick from MAN for the end of November,
Quoting jet72uk (Reply 65):
I can't beleive for a minute that LGW-MAN will not be serviced.
Quoting vectismanpaul (Reply 77):
Still very quiet about possible replacement carrier for Manchester-Gatwick.

It is unbelievable that BA want to drop this route. In all the years that I and anyone else I know has used it it has been rarely less than 80% full. The morning flight is always completely full any time I've used it.

It must have been important to them too as they gave a full hot breakfast on a 30min flight. If the route was useless they would have given nothing or a bag of nuts.

Doesn't make sense to me.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 79):
The start of the summer schedule will see BA hand back a number of LHR slots as agreed as part of the BD merger. This is expected to free up a small number of airbus aircraft. The plan is to transfer the aircraft to LGW during S13 were they will be used to replace the 737's exiting service.

Is BA going to transfer only A319s to LGW? I mean it is a capacity reduction compared to the 734s. A mix of 320s and 319s would be better suited for the shorthaul network out of LGW.

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 79):
The exact number of A319's that will operate from LGW next summer and the routes that the aircraft are expected to operate next summer is expected to be announced early in the new year.

Do you think we will see any additional routes announced??? And the other question is what routes/frequencies are going to be dropped from LHR??
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:41 pm

The fares on MAN-LGW on the 20 or so flights I have been on were a bargain, always better than the train. I had suspected it was under threat for a long time, only the first flight fed long haul and the night stopper was dropped which is often the beginning of the end. If it was a goldmine, EZY would have had a go, the current shortest flight is GLA-BFS so it's not unknown.

LGW getting LHR hand me downs is only a stop gap, is there any news on whether the RFP for fleet replacement is going to the board?

[Edited 2012-11-25 08:43:14]
 
santos
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 82):
the current shortest fligh is GLA-BFS so it's not unknown.

I think that LPL-IOM is currently their shortest scheduled flight
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:07 pm

Ahh yes quite right. Sneeze and you miss it.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 82):
the current shortest flight is GLA-BFS
Quoting santos (Reply 83):
I think that LPL-IOM

No train to compete against on these over-water routes.

If HS2 is built do not expect the LHR-MAN service to survive very long, particularly if there is a Heathrow spur on HS2. Remember here that while British rail travellers are subsidised by the British tax payer to the extent of about £5 billion a year, British air travellers are unsubsidised and make a direct contribution to the Exchequer through Air Passenger Duty of £26 for any return domestic flight excepting only those from and within the Scottish Highlands and Islands.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 85):
If HS2 is built do not expect the LHR-MAN service to survive very long

Given much of it's connecting over BA at LHR anyway why would I take the train? Point to point fares on LHR-MAN are very expensive for a reason, the cheap fares were taken by the rather large allocation of connections.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 86):
Given much of it's connecting over BA at LHR anyway why would I take the train? Point to point fares on LHR-MAN are very expensive for a reason, the cheap fares were taken by the rather large allocation of connections.

That would depend on where you were starting out from.

If you are convenient for and it is quicker to travel to Manchester Picadilly why would you not use the High Speed train to Heathrow instead of making the longer and less convenient journey to Ringway? If you did there would be no need to arrive at Picadilly more than five minutes before the scheduled departure time. You may even find that by the time HS2 reaches Manchester trains to Heathrow will be code share "flights".

If HS2 does rach Manchester you might even be able to check your luggage in at Picadilly. That would hardly be revolutionary. At one time you could check your luggage at West Kensington when flying BEA from LHR, or Victoria when flying BOAC from LHR and travel by coach to the airport. If you were flying BUA from LGW you could check your luiggage at Victoria and then travel to LGW by train. What goes around may come around?

Many moons ago BD used to operate these on the BHX-LHR route:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gary Watt



But now the train (or the M40) takes the strain. The same could happen to MAN.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 87):
If you are convenient for and it is quicker to travel to Manchester Picadilly why would you not use the High Speed train to Heathrow instead of making the longer and less convenient journey to Ringway?

Customer mentality kicks in, the mindset says I check in with BA at my local airport and I don't expect to see my bags until the other side of the world. (ideally(!))
It's still going to be faster in many people's minds than getting a train and hoping no one nicks your cases if you take your eyes off them. BA would lose business to KLM/AF and LH if the Shuttle was withdrawn.

[Edited 2012-11-25 18:46:51]
 
vv701
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:05 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 88):
It's still going to be faster in many people's minds than getting a train and hoping no one nicks your cases if you take your eyes off them.

Would there be any greater worry about your bags if, as I have already suggested, it was possible to check them in at Manchester Picadilly than if you checked them in at Manchester Ringway? I do not think so.

Few people living today in the Birmingham area even know that once-upon-a-time you could fly by BD from BHX to LHR. That service was discontinued as Birmingham area residents wanting to travel via LHR chose to catch the new, relatively high speed trains from more convenient Birmingham New Street or chose to travel by car or coach straight down the M42/M40/M25. Even the time-conscious passenger chose to travel to LHR by surface rather than air. That is why BD discontinued their BHX-LHR flights after faster trains from Birmingham New Street were introduced and relatively quick and convenient car and coach journeys down the M42/M40/M25 became possible. And any airline operatring out of LHR, not just BA, could turn a Picadilly-Heathrow HS train connection into a code-share "flight" significantly increasing both general awareness and the promotion of this option.

What is particularly relevant today is the attitude of the competition authorities to MAN-LHR. They required BA to surrender LHR slots specifically to be used between LHR and EDI and / or ABZ in allowing the IAG purchase of BD. There was no such requirement for slots to be used for flights to be released for specific use between MAN and LHR, the only other domestic route operated last winter by both BA and BD and no other airline. Indeed MAN, unlike NCE, CAI (also served from LHR by MS) or RUH (also served by SV) was not even include among the list of optional destinations listed by the competition authorities for possible slot transfer. The only explanation I can give for this is that they recognise that BA will need to remain competitive with surface transport on this route.

Of course today MAN-LON is a slightly different market to MAN-LHR. But if HS2 were to directlky link Manchester Picadilly to LHR this would certainly no longer be true.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:23 pm

It won't be possible to do that for security reasons I suspect.
 
raffik
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:37 pm

Birmingham to Heathrow is a much shorter drive than Manchester to London.
Plus, lugging heavy cases to a train station and on and off etc is not fun. People will just fly AF, KLM from Manchester and connect rather than the awkward journey.
- Alec
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:45 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 90):
It won't be possible to do that for security reasons I suspect.

There must be a way, if its ok for your bags to be chucked on the back of a truck in the carribbean, whilst the passengers travel by coach and have no way of knowing whats happening to them. Or its ok to drop your bags at the VS desk at Downtown Disney Orlando at 10am, for a 8pm flight from MCO, there should be a way that passengers could check a bag in at Manchester Picadilly for transfer to LHR. The one thing it would need though is sufficient demand to make it viable.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:17 pm

They're not in the UK though are they? The rather handy baggage drop for Gatwick at Victoria was closed for that very reason.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 91):
Birmingham to Heathrow is a much shorter drive than Manchester to London.

That is why it will not happen until HS2 is built and links Manchester Piccadilly directly to Heathrow. And when that happens it will be quicker to get from central Manchester to LHR than it is today to get from central Birmingham to LHR.

Quoting raffik (Reply 91):
Plus, lugging heavy cases to a train station and on and off etc is not fun. People will just fly AF, KLM from Manchester and connect rather than the awkward journey.

Is lugging heavy cases to an airport and on and off etc better fun than lugging them to a station and on and off etc? If so, exactly how?

As I originally said Manchester Piccadilly is more accessible for many than is Manchester Ringway. Why bother to, to borrow a phrase, "lug" your heavy cases out to Ringway to climb aboard an AF or KL aircraft when you can check them in at Manchester Picadilly and travel at speed and in comfort, taking a stroll to the restaurant car, as you are directly carried to your LHR terminal instead of being crammed into a 31" pitch seat on a flight to an unnecessary intermediate point?

Of course if you were right passengers would be flocking today to LHR to board flights to CDG and BRU. But they are not. Instead they are lugging their heavy bags to St Pancras International and travelling in comfort on HS1 and then through the Channel Tunnel on their trips to Paris or Brussels. And where we used to see TriStar, 763 and A300 flights between LHR and CDG we now see (fewer) 319s and, not so long ago, even ATR72s.

HS1 operates at speeds between 200 and 300 kph (143 to 186 mph). If HS2 operated no more quickly than that it would cover the 150 miles between MAN and LHR in under an hour. Why bother to traipse out to Ringway with your heavy luggage to take a flight to an intermediate airport when you could reach a direct service from LHR more quickly, in greater comfort and with less hassle?
 
raffik
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:35 pm

It will only work if the cost of the train tickets are low enough- and with the cost of train travel rising year on year, I would like to see if it compares THAT well.

For example, BA MAN-LHR-JFK 18/2 returning 25/2 comes in at £450
If you were to buy the Heathrow - New York segments alone it comes in at £431, so the cost to the passenger for the add on flights is less than £20 - so less than £10 each way. Do you think the train is going to be that cheap? I doubt it.

I imagine BA's domestic flights feed in very well with connecting traffic at Heathrow and they won't give that up without a fight.

This high speed train network sounds like a good idea - fascinating that somebody who lives in Birmingham can actually get a train to London in under an hour when I live half the distance away in Brighton and it takes me just as long.
Soon, everybody's local airport will be Heathrow.
- Alec
 
vectismanpaul
Topic Author
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:45 am

Good morning
Interesting to read your comments about the Manchester route re the trains etc... PersonallyI believe there will always be those who prefer to fly. I for one, if making a connection via LHR or LGW ,would always prefer to check in my bags at my starting point and not have to worry about them until I got to my destination.
Anyway lets keep to topic.
In a few days Geneva seasonal flights begin. Does anyone know if BA put on extra flights from Gatwick during the Christmas/ New Year period to popular destinations?
I guess during the slack November period more attention is paid to maintenance and planning. Certainly have not heard of any cancellations of any flights ex LGW by BA in recent weeks.
As always news and views welcome.
V.
 
rutankrd
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:58 pm

HS2 as planned is NO panacea for the slot issues at LHR or a replacement for ANY of the remaining limited domestic flights including those operated by BA Shuttle LHR-MAN-LHR

If you can't board a BA plane in Manchester but have to rely on multi modal ground connections . BA and Oneworld WILL loose the support of many many thousands to the other alliances period.

The plan does not include for any direct single train connections between Manchester and Heathrow, but rather building an interchange station over Old Oak Common/Willesden Junction area (An area that is already a maze of rail lines) and dumping the Manchester/Birmingham passengers at a new interchange station with differing platform heights where connections would have to be made onto the HAL line.

And I doubt that there will be more than 1/2 trains an hour from either Manchester or Birmingham stopping here for that connection.

Added hassle with platform change plus typically 12 minutes connection time .

Oh and you know the HS2 may only cut 15 minutes off the current Virgin times of 2 hours 10 minutes.May be adequate to entice a few already ground travellers (the hundreds of thousands that actually drive MAN-LON every day) out of the car however at what fare levels. Virgins unlimited tickets are already among the most expensive in the world !

Plus the 10 minutes Old Oak Common - Heathrow.

Manchester Piccadilly - LHR typically will still be more than 2 1/2 hours apart !

Oh as for the Manchester end much of Greater Manchester and indeed the North West in general find the airport far more convenient to get too with their own car with the extensive motorway network or bus direct train or in just few years the tram than getting into Central Manchester !

Let me say i think that the idea of a super high speed rail network heading north has merit for the UK economy however HS2 is not the best solution.

London end wrong terminal Euston route wrong direction - Super high speed only becomes viable at distances in excess of 150 miles when time advantages begin to add up.
Birmingham as planed its just a few minutes over existing Virgin Pendulinos !

I think they should be looking directly at and along the Midland mainline with a spur (Old Grand Central into Manchester) Sheffield and Leeds

All that said we are talking of potential events at more than decade and half away for phase 1 and thats just to Birmingham !
 
theginge
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 97):
The plan does not include for any direct single train connections between Manchester and Heathrow, but rather building an interchange station over Old Oak Common/Willesden Junction area (An area that is already a maze of rail lines) and dumping the Manchester/Birmingham passengers at a new interchange station with differing platform heights where connections would have to be made onto the HAL line.

The most stupid thing about HS2 is that they don't plan a Heathrow direct link in the first phase, ie go Central London - Heathrow then up north. Look at Frankfurt Airport station, many high speed trains to / from Frankfurt pass through there and it is also a major interchange in it self, people change trains there without touching the airport. This could happen at LHR if UK governments were not useless at any sort of transport policy..
 
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Vasu
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RE: BA Gatwick News Thread

Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:34 pm

Anyone know why BA6 has just landed at Gatwick? RJAA -LHR, G-STBC 777-300ER

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