Eastern... And The C919

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flood
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Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:09 am

Reuters is reporting from the airshow in China, via twitter (@ReutersAero):

"Comac looks set to announce 50 firm C919 orders for Joy Air, Hebei, Gecas plus an MOU with company using the Eastern brand."

They also tweeted a pic from the venue where the order ceremony is to be held:


http://twitter.yfrog.com/kjt08duuj

I'll be the first to admit I know next to nothing of Eastern and their history... and who currently owns the brand. Will we see the rebirth of Eastern in the US - using C919s??

edit to add: flightglobal tweeting Eastern's MOU involves cooperation on development and Eastern will "formally consider the C919 for its future fleet".

[Edited 2012-11-12 18:14:57]
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HermansCVR580
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:38 am

WOW!!! Very interesting to say the least.
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
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Boeing777300
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:43 am

Please.... let Eastern Airlines Rest In Peace      

They tried a few times with PanAm and look where that name is now... on the side of a railroad company fleet!!!

Surely there are plenty of fresh new airline names and brands available to not have to ressurect another old name from the past.

Just a thought.
Today, I am absolutely fantastic, tomorrow, who knows?
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crj900lr
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:47 am

Quoting flood (Thread starter):
Eastern will "formally consider the C919 for its future fleet".

The future never arrives, therefore this airline will never fly. Its another paper airline.
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FI642
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:13 am

Both the Pan American and Braniff name have been dragged through the mud, PLEASE let Eastern rest in peace, PLEASE!
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:40 am

Pretty heartless of the Chinese to put the EA livery on a C919 model. Talk about opening up the wounds again. Not cool.   
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
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unitedchicago
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:46 am

ever think they did it so it would be passed around and discussed in social forums such as this one...and thereby generating a lot of earned media?
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cargolex
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
Pretty heartless of the Chinese to put the EA livery on a C919 model. Talk about opening up the wounds again. Not cool.


Since China had absolutely nothing to do with the shutdown of Eastern, I'm a little unclear as to why it's "heartless" or "not cool." I don't think anyone in China would really know or care about Eastern unless you were talking about China Eastern, so somebody is obviously either ordering planes or giving them enough of a solid indication that they will to spend the money to make a 1:50 scale model for display at a major show.

Eastern's trademarks and brand are owned by a major Aviation finance company here in the United States.

Reuters says:

Quote:
A signing ceremony due later on Tuesday could also highlight a provisional order from investors seeking to revive U.S. carrier Eastern Air Lines, one of the world's most famous aviation names which went bankrupt in 1991, the sources said.


I used to fly Eastern when I was young, and I have alot of good memories of and associations with Eastern. Personally, and it's just my opinion, I think it's unlikely we'll see that livery in the air again.

[Edited 2012-11-12 20:24:55]
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PMUA787
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:01 pm

I think it is very cool to put the old EA 'hockey stick' livery on this model. Its kind of a tribute to one of America's pioneering airlines.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:51 pm

I am wondering if they got EA mixed up with the British regional carrier T3 (Eastern Airways). It would make sense for them to order a regional jet like the C-919.
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PMUA787
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
Eastern's trademarks and brand are owned by a major Aviation finance company here in the United States.

Anyone know which Aviation finance company it is?
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Vasu
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:50 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
I am wondering if they got EA mixed up with the British regional carrier T3 (Eastern Airways). It would make sense for them to order a regional jet like the C-919.

No plans for that to happen, as far as I know...
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0newair0
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting PMUA787 (Reply 10):
Anyone know which Aviation finance company it is?

Aviation Capital Partners Group, LLC
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
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srbmod
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 12):
Aviation Capital Partners Group, LLC

Here's the list of trademarks (live and dead) associated with them:

http://www.trademarkia.com/company-a...partners-group-llc-113508-page-1-2
http://www.trademarken.com/list/0/ow....;%20Eastern%20Air%20Lines,%20Inc.

Now what's interesting is that Aviation Capital Partners Group supposedly owns Sky King, a charter airline (which filed for bankruptcy back in September, citing the demise of Direct Air, who supposedly owed them $1 million). Now when the plans for a new EAL came to light, they said that would likely buy an existing airline and rename it. It appears that Sky King could be that airline.

As for them getting C919s, that's an interesting and risky proposition indeed. I guess COMAC is hoping that much like with Airbus and the A300 at the original Eastern, this new Eastern will be the entry point for their planes in the US.

To be honest, this new Eastern may be making a mistake with this order, especially with the number of 737NGs and A320 family a/c that will start hitting the market in a few years as 737 MAX and A320neo a/c are delivered to the airlines. Then again, COMAC plans on having the C919 in service in 2016, which is a year after Airbus plans to start delivering the first A320neo family a/c and a year prior to the planned first delivery of the 737 MAX. However, some are skeptical of COMAC's 2016 EIS date on the C919 and think it may be as late as 2020 (Not surprising considering COMAC's ARJ21 is still not in service and they are planning on starting deliveries late next year.).
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larshjort
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:29 pm

I am looking forward to seeing another manufacturer of large jets, but I am split on the subject of reviving the Eastern brand. I would love to see aircraft painted in the colourscheme, but knowing the history of the brand I hope they would choose another one.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
I am wondering if they got EA mixed up with the British regional carrier T3 (Eastern Airways). It would make sense for them to order a regional jet like the C-919.

You mean the Eastern Airways whose current largest aircraft is the 50 seat Saab 2000? Is going to order a 170 seat jet?

/Lars
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KC135Hydraulics
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:29 pm

What is the draw to this C919? From what I've read about it, the specifications/efficiency of the model is decidedly sub-par when compared to the Boeing and Airbus offerings. What's the draw to this plane? Is it extremely cheap? What's the break-point for cheap plane vs. higher operating and maintenance costs? And if the plane is built to same standards as most low-priced products coming from China... well, let's just say I won't be flying Eastern Airlines if and when it emerges!
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AirframeAS
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
Since China had absolutely nothing to do with the shutdown of Eastern, I'm a little unclear as to why it's "heartless" or "not cool." I don't think anyone in China would really know or care about Eastern

That clearly is the EA livery. I doubt China Eastern's livery is like that! I also said this as well as to why I said what I said in my original post:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
Talk about opening up the wounds again

   The wounds of what happened to this airline is still fresh. There are still EA employees out there are bitter about what happened, and they have the right to be.

That's just how I see it.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
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AirbusA6
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:03 pm

I doubt China will be exporting much for the next few years (apart from a few local sales to SE Asia) as they'll be concentrating on producing for the domestic market, which is a much better way or ironing out the bugs without the outside world watching! It's a massive market anyway.
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columba
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:05 pm

No it is obvious that Comac is copying Airbus. Airbus first US customer was Eastern and since Eastern is no more, they found somebody that will resurrect the brand for them  
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
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Tangowhisky
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:00 am

Let's get to the heart of the matter.

The C919 will be dead on arrival outside its region. In the same way the ARJ21 is overweight and antiquated (hashed up copy of an MD-90), the same is true with the C919. By the time it is certified, it will be a poor competitor the NEO and MAX. These two Chinese programs are a learning exercise.
Only the paranoid survive
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F9Animal
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:22 am

Hey, I am all for seeing any airline try to get off the ground. Call me greedy, but I would give anything to see a few Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff, and other lost airlines flying into my local airport any day! Even if it does not survive, it would be so cool to see the livery back on our tarmacs again!  
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cf6ppe
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:44 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
The wounds of what happened to this airline is still fresh. There are still EA employees out there are bitter about what happened, and they have the right to be.

That's just how I see it.

I agree with the above quoted .... even after 20+ years

Also, I don't think either the C919 and/or a redone Eastern Airlines will ever happen.

Please let EAL rest in peace...
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CPHFF
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:58 am

What model is in the background of that Eastern plane in the photo? Looks different. (Nose, Engines)
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MAH4546
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:14 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):

Pretty heartless of the Chinese to put the EA livery on a C919 model. Talk about opening up the wounds again. Not cool.

The Eastern trade name is owned by a group of Miami investors who gave them permission to use it. The group has been slowly working on a relaunch plan for the airline, essentially taking the Virgin America service model and applying it to a Miami-based airline with the Eastern name. I doubt it'll ever launch, but they've been taking serious steps to make it happen, and this - a possible C-919 order - is clearly the biggest yet.
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HullCitySpotter
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:38 pm

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 14):
You mean the Eastern Airways whose current largest aircraft is the 50 seat Saab 2000? Is going to order a 170 seat jet?

When taking over HUY a couple of months ago they did mention wanting to put in place holiday flights to the Balaerics (PMI, Mahon and IBZ), Spain, and the Canaries; this would have been done via TCX but they're going down the drain and FR's Humberside experiment didn't go too well, so why not? They've obviously got a bit of dosh to buy HUY, so I can see them expanding.
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timboflier215
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:04 pm

Even more interesting, according to the Reuters article linked below, BA have expressed an interest! The Wikipedia page for the C919 lists BA as having ordered 5 (clearly incorrect), but I am surprised BA is even thought of in the same breath as this a/c....

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/1...hina-airshow-idUKLNE8AC00N20121113
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LN-KGL
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
I am wondering if they got EA mixed up with the British regional carrier T3 (Eastern Airways). It would make sense for them to order a regional jet like the C-919.

C919 isn't exactly a regional jet with 168-190 seats on board.
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Vasu
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 25):

Yes, I saw that too! I wonder if BA are actually serious or whether they are just using it as a bargaining chip with other manufacturers... very interesting nevertheless!
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timboflier215
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting Vasu (Reply 27):
using it as a bargaining chip with other manufacturers

I'd be extremely surprised to see BA order the C919, and I think Bombardier, Boeing and Airbus wouldn't see a BA order as a possibility. Yes, strange things have happened in aviation, but I think BA ordering a COMAC product would pretty much trump all.

I know we in the UK are keen to increase trade with China, but really....!
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freakyrat
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:30 pm

Quotinh mah4546 "The Eastern trade name is owned by a group of Miami investors who gave them permission to use it. The group has been slowly working on a relaunch plan for the airline, essentially taking the Virgin America service model and applying it to a Miami-based airline with the Eastern name. I doubt it'll ever launch, but they've been taking serious steps to make it happen, and this - a possible C-919 order - is clearly the biggest yet."


I doubt if they will ever use this plane. When I first head of the possible relaunch of Eastern it was to be Miami based using Airbus A320 aircraft flying to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America. As far as launching this company again I believe it's a crapshoot but who knows. Also there is speculation that they will just buy the USA3000 certificate and rename as Eastern.
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N766UA
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:58 pm

So, did they purposely rip off the 787's windows?
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zippyjet
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 30):

It's hard to see but I'd say more like the Embraer 170 series larger windows .

It would be cool to see the rebirth of Eastern but, I would not want it to be a flop like all the Pan Am incarnations then the logo ending up on some old beat up box car. I thought there was a group wanting to revive Eastern with new A-318's. Is that same group? I heard that rumor about 18 months to 2 years ago.
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N766UA
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:26 pm

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 31):
It's hard to see but I'd say more like the Embraer 170 series larger windows .
http://i.cdn.cnngo.com/sites/default...rge/2010/11/17/C919_main_image.jpg

That side window is shaped exactly like the 787's.
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lollomz
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
That side window is shaped exactly like the 787's.

Someone told me that chinese people are famous for the copies......
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
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KC135Hydraulics
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:00 pm

Sometimes when I'm working on hydraulic tubing and can't quite figure out how it should be routed, I look at the "Chinese blueprint" which is basically looking at the other wing (or the jet on the next spot) and copying its layout. Works every time!!
MSgt, USAF
KC-135R / C-17A Pneudraulic Systems Mechanic Supervisor
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N766UA
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RE: Eastern... And The C919

Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting lollomz (Reply 33):
Someone told me that chinese people are famous for the copies......

Yeah, I guess I'm sort of stating the obvious at this point, huh?
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