Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 5389
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:41 pm

What I would have said about the A340 as a commercial proposition has already been said (and well) above so I won't add to it. It was no flop.

But I might add the customer's perspective. I've done 23 flights on various A340s in Economy and Business and it remains a preferred airliner if I have the choice.

I suppose I'm suggesting that there is more than one way to look at 'flop'. A 10-abreast 777 will kick sand in the face of an 8-abreast A340 in terms of generating income for the airline. But, having flown on both, I know which is the better travelling experience.
 
b741
Posts: 677
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:09 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:48 pm

Not from a spotter's point of view. The first time I saw one from a distance I thought OMG a 707!!
Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:19 pm

The MD11 was quite a flop, from a commercial and technological point of view. The A340 overall sold reasonably well, put the MD11 out of the market in a couple of years, and reliability problems on the A340 are quite unheard of, despite being a quad, having more maintenance etc, etc.... It is just not as fuel-efficient as a twin would be (ie the 777 or the A330 for anywhere where true long-range range is not needed), but this is inherited from late 80s technology, before B broke the barrier and became able to build a long-range large-sized wide-body.

Could Airbus have developed a long-range A330 instead of a long-range A340 and a medium-range A330?
Airbus would probably know this better than anyone else, I'm taking the safe bet that they are not idiots, considered it, but did not want to run into too many problems and delays, and gave up for 2 more conventional airplanes instead of 1 ground breaking one.

One has to keep in mind that at the time, they had yet to establish themselves as a true long-range aircraft manufacturer. The A340-A330 duo accomplished that mission perfectly, and is now probably beyond their initial hopes (regarding the success of all A330 improvements, which have now become almost as capable as the first A340 with much better fuel economy). Boeing certainly never liked this, and this is indirectly what pushed them to build the 777. They had to come up with something revolutionary asap or Airbus would have totally taken over the market.

The A340-500/600 is where Airbus could have avoided spending resources, however. They would certainly have, had they anticipated the trouble the A380 has gotten them into!
When I doubt... go running!
 
FI642
Posts: 992
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 52):

The MD11 was quite a flop, from a commercial and technological point of view. The A340 overall sold reasonably well, put the MD11 out of the market in a couple of years, and reliability problems on the A340 are quite unheard of, despite being a quad, having more maintenance etc, etc.... It is just not as fuel-efficient as a twin would be (ie the 777 or the A330 for anywhere where true long-range range is not needed), but this is inherited from late 80s technology, before B broke the barrier and became able to build a long-range large-sized wide-body.

True, but it's found quite the market as a freighter and converted to a freighter. FedEx and UPS make a lot of money utilising the MD11. It's still one of my favourite birds to have flown.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
kochamLOT
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:32 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:12 pm

Who knows if it was a flop for Airbus or not but I would say for Passengers it definitley was refreshing. Many people who are scared of flying like flying with 4 engines. Airlines like Virgin used flying with 4 engines as something to brag about. Flying the A340-600 was my most relaxing and enjoyable experience and by far the quietest aircraft Ive ever flown on.
4 engines 4 long haul does have its drawbacks and with the reliability and etops and the efficiency of the twins these days, it would make sense that Airbus could see the A340 as something to move on from.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 27):
Quoting pvjin (Reply 25):
To me that sounds total rubbish unless there were some very significant differences in winds between altitudes.

SIN-LHR is around 6020 nm along the airways, and would take around 12.5 hrs in an A340, for a 777 to do it in 10.5 hrs, it need to TAS at 573 kts, which is Mach 1 at 36,000 ft.

Don't forget that the GE-90, weight differences, and the 77L fuselage shape pretty much gives it a huge advantage there. Don't wanna be the guy who turns it into an A v. B thread, but in reality, it's mark 1 for Boeing here.
I really do love the A340, but it was just awful timing in its introduction
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Jalap
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:26 pm

If I remember correctly, pre 1995 the 342 and 343 were the good sellers while the 333 wasn't doing very well. I think it was the 332 that really got the 330 selling well. And today it's the 333 that's the hot one while the 332 is losing ground.

This shows that you have to take the entire family in mind when you evaluate the 340. And it shows the versatility of the concept. Sure, it probably was strange to develop a quad and a twin in the same family, but by doing so they gave themselves a lot of freedom for future development. I'm sure nobody at airbus in 1992 expected that the 333 would still be selling like hotcakes 20 years later, had the world and technology developed differently it may have been the 346 that was crowding the skies today.

And apart from all the rationale, the 342 simply is the most beautifull thing in the skies, in my opinion!
 
ukoverlander
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:58 pm

Considering that the A330/A340 models are essentially derivatives of a single platform does it even make sense to question/analyze whether the A340 is a flop?

The A330 is an enormous success and while the A340 derivative necessarilly had some structural differences, these were relatively few in the big picture and the additional incremental costs of building in those differences were probably relatively small overall and have long since been recovered through sales over time.

From Airbus's perspective the return on their investment in the A330/40 program must leave them pretty happy. Due to the commonality of the design/engineering I'd venture to say the A340 filled it's niche. Today it may have largely been bypassed by the big twins (due to changes in ETOPS,) but the continued success of the A330 means the platform overall continues to provide return on their investment and has been an excellent product for Airbus.
 
9VSIO
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:00 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):
its like the Airbus 747SP

The what?!
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
CF-CPI
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2000 12:54 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 10):
Where upon
SQ dumped their order for the A340

Ironically, SQ had dumped the MD-11 in favor of these A340s, in a purchase that was widely seen as the death knell for the MD-11 market, such was the influence of SQ at the time.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15911
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 55):
Don't forget that the GE-90, weight differences, and the 77L fuselage shape pretty much gives it a huge advantage there.

That has nothing to do with the comment that I was referring to....

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 10):
Especially after a UAL 777 climbed out of Singapore 1hr AFTER an A340, En Route Climbed OVER said A340 and Landed 1hr Ahead of said A340 at LHR.

UAL does not have the 77L, and no 777 can cruise at Mach 1, the myth is busted. What is also false about this statement is that the A340 has better initial and en-route climb capability over the 777.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
starrymarkb
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:19 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting ecbomberman (Reply 47):
Airbus went a step further by going one step further so that pilots can fly A320/330/340 (correct me if I'm wrong again)

A330 and A340 are common Type Rating - going from the A320 to the A330/340 needs a conversion course but only a short one (5 days IIRC) due to the high similarity...
 
airbazar
Posts: 10358
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:54 pm

It sold 300 frames, despite ETOPS, and it's part of the same family as the A330. If that's a flop, it's one happy flop 
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2739
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:09 pm

The A343 was quite good for its day. The A342 had its uses even with its fairly horrible operating economics. Certainly better for most airlines than the 747 that killed many airlines through it being far too much plane for them.

where it goes off the rails is the A340NG which combined breaking commonality to a massive degree, expensive captial costs, and even higher operating costs.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 27):
SIN-LHR is around 6020 nm along the airways, and would take around 12.5 hrs in an A340, for a 777 to do it in 10.5 hrs, it need to TAS at 573 kts, which is Mach 1 at 36,000 ft.

2 hours may be a myth but lets look at where that began. Your numbers assume the A340 was cruising at rated speed. Airbus themselves, when they threatened to sue Boeing in 1996 over their claim of the 777 shaving 1 hour on long haul, admitted that early operators of the type were cruising at 0.78 Mach to increase either payload or range. In other words, they flew the plane slower to overcome other shortfalls.

Quoting zeke (Reply 15):
Boeing actually took something like 17 A340s and a bunch of A310s from SQ. SQ made it a condition of the 777 order that they take all of the Airbus widebodies, which included all of the A340s. The ex-SQ A340s were supported by Airbus, I flew a number of those aircraft for the best part of 10 years after they left SQ, I think the majority of the others ended up in EK and Gulf Air. Yet another a.net myth busted.

I'm not sure what "a.net myth" you are referring, but the poster was correct about Airbus threats to service before backing off.
Boeing Regrets SIA Celestar Deal (by Singapore_Air Nov 9 2001 in Civil Aviation)
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15911
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting starrymarkb (Reply 61):
A330 and A340 are common Type Rating - going from the A320 to the A330/340 needs a conversion course but only a short one (5 days IIRC) due to the high similarity...

No, the A330 and A340 are not a common type rating, the A330 and A350 are being proposed to be. One can CCQ (cross crew qualification) from any of the FBW Airbus aircraft to another, it is a short transition course as you described. It is also possible to MFF (mixed fleet flying) between different FBW airbus types, e.g. A320/A340, A320/A330, A330/A340, similar with the A380 and A350 in the future.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:50 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 60):
What is also false about this statement is that the A340 has better initial and en-route climb capability over the 777.

Which A340's and which 777's are you refering to? The initial climb and ICAC relationships between the A343 and the 772ER are not the same as the relationships for the A346 and 773ER.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:21 pm

No. The A340 was the aircraft that made Airbus a producer of long range aircraft, was mandatory to enhance their market share of 50%+ - the A340 was one of the biggest successes in aviation ever.

Airbus, having the A340 line booked out still for many years, does not mind a second if the aircraft are delivered with 4 engines and are called A340 or with two engines under the marketing name A330 - both are largely identical, provide a huge profit to Airbus, so I can only repeat - - the A340 was one of the biggest successes in aviation ever, comparable as THE game changer only with the 737.
 
Boeing777300
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:26 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:40 pm

On the subject of nervous passengers preferring a four engine plane to fly in, I remember a programme on BBC TV a few years ago about British Airways, where a high ranking official (from either BA or RR, I can't remember exactly) said that " the only reason he flew on four engine aircraft across the Atlantic is because no manufacturer built one with five engines". In this regard, I believe that the A340 was of its time.
Today, I am absolutely fantastic, tomorrow, who knows?
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15911
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 66):
Which A340's and which 777's are you refering to? The initial climb and ICAC relationships between the A343 and the 772ER are not the same as the relationships for the A346 and 773ER.

Both, the A343 will be able to reach a high initial cruise altitude over the 772ER, 744, and 77W at max weight. The Boeings when heave are typically stuck just below FL300, the A340 above FL310.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:06 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:43 pm

The A340 paved the way for the A330, they share the same fuselage as well as many other systems, the main difference is ones a quad and the others a twin. But together as they are part of the same family so the A340 could had been a flop, but when You factor in sister aircraft the A330... I think it was a success.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7470
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 45):
P.S. the A340 is part of the A330 family........



Really > I thought it part of teh A320 family, its big cousin. NOT, I don't need to be lectured on what the relationship beween the A330 and 340, thanks.

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 58):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):its like the Airbus 747SP
The what?!

My comparison to teh SP is that the A340 is a slow selling version of planes in a larger program, over 1000 747 were sold but only 47 were SP's.
 
ZaphodB
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:56 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:26 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 69):

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 66):
Which A340's and which 777's are you refering to? The initial climb and ICAC relationships between the A343 and the 772ER are not the same as the relationships for the A346 and 773ER.

Both, the A343 will be able to reach a high initial cruise altitude over the 772ER, 744, and 77W at max weight. The Boeings when heave are typically stuck just below FL300, the A340 above FL310.

Every 77W flight I've taken had to level off at FL290. The last A widebody I can recall doing that was the 306R.
And those who love to complain about the 343s sedate takeoff roll and slow climb out should take a ride on QF8.

[Edited 2012-11-14 16:28:09]
 
76794p
Topic Author
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:35 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:57 am

Thanks so much everybody! Very insightful about the program.
There's always money IN the banana stand.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1591
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:41 am

Given that the Hull was derived from the A300 and shared with the A330, the development costs were lower than say a 787 and split between a couple types of planes. I would say that they more than broke even. I don't think it was a flop for Airbus, but the 777 and their own A330 made it a flop for airlines who bought it.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:57 am

well the result of SQ's dumping the A340 for the B777 was Boeing Took them in on a trade and probably made $0.00 on selling the used airplanes, What's more?? They did it AGAIN with 17 A340's For China Eastern..
But I wa s at WORK the day the 777 landed before the SQ 340 and an SQ passenger reported to his Company That HE believed the SQ A340 must have Crashed because he left Behind them and landed in front of them. By 1 HR.
It wasn't a rumour and sent shock waves all over the place. NOBODY wants to see another airline Lose an airplane and this guy set off a PANIC in London and Singapore before the SQ A340 landed. We actually HAD an SQ 340 and an SQ 747-412 on the ground preparing to depart. from the Old SFO International Terminal as UAL was the Only USA Based Airline for a while Qualified on the A340 By Lufthansa and Singapore. (Star Alliance Partners)
here is the article I quoted
: Kuwait Times
NEW YORK: Boeing may soon be looking for buyers for long-range passenger jets built by arch-rival Airbus under a rare trade-in deal with China’s third largest airline that underscores all-out competition between the planemakers. The US planemaker has agreed to buy half of China Eastern’s fleet of 10 Airbus A340 jets as part of a $6 billion deal to sell 20 Boeing 777s to the airline, the Shanghai carrier said in a stock exchange filing on Monday. Airbus has itself agreed to take back the other half of China Eastern’s A340 fleet as part of a separate deal to sell 15 A330 jets, but faces likely delays in getting the deal done due to a row between China and Europe over emissions.
The two deals lift a veil on an obscure corner of the jetliner industry, where planes are traded in like used cars. Just like car dealerships, the world’s dominant aircraft manufacturers sometimes offer to take back their old models when trying to persuade airlines to upgrade to the latest models, in an industry with $100 billion in annual new sales. But experts agree it is unusual for aircraft to cross over the barrier separating Airbus and Boeing in their combative duopoly, and when they do it stokes up emotions on both sides. “It sometimes happens but it is not their preferred route at all,” said Karl Bruenjes, managing director of UK-based RPK Capital Management, a specialist in second-hand aircraft.

The deal echoes a move by Boeing to buy A340s from Singapore Airlines in the mid-1990s including some still in assembly. Back then, the aim was to support a blockbuster sale of 777s. When delivery came there was a brief spat over whether Airbus would support the A340s, according to people familiar with the deal. The subsequent trading spawned a joke inside Boeing headquarters that Boeing had placed more A340s than Airbus that year-a source of irritation for Airbus that may be repeated if Boeing quickly sells the jets it plans to buy this time.

Airbus halted production of the slow-selling A340 last year. In 1984, according to industry sources and web databases, Boeing bought a handful of brand-new Airbus A310 models assigned to Kuwait Airways to allow the airline to take Boeings instead. In the European camp, in 2008 Air Algerie told the United States that Airbus had offered to buy its entire Boeing fleet to prise open a key Boeing client, according to an unconfirmed account in a cable marked “sensitive” and released by Wikileaks.

Airbus said its policy was not to buy Boeing airplanes. “It is very rare in this industry that someone buys their competitor’s aircraft. We do not do it,” sales chief John Leahy said. Boeing said it did not comment on specific transactions, but a spokesman added: “In general it is fair to say that at times we do take airplanes in trade, including occasionally non-Boeing airplanes, as part of our orders transactions.”

DIFFICULT SECOND-HAND MARKET
The A340 entered service boasting “four engines for long haul” in 1993, shortly before the 777 ushered in an era of two engines for all but the biggest aircraft or the longest routes. While the 777 enjoyed record sales last year, Airbus decided to halt production of the A340, which was outsold four to one. China Eastern’s A340 fleet includes five A340-600s, until recently the world’s longest jetliner and still relatively young at an average age of 8.3 years. According to UK consultancy Ascend, the notional market value of these jets, which are due to be sold to Boeing, is $55 million each, but some dealers called the figure optimistic. “The A340 is a difficult market and they will be competing with the manufacturer,” Bruenjes said, noting that Airbus already has nine A340s on its own list of trade-ins for sale.

“The value will mainly be in the engines, not so much the airframe. An existing operator might be interested in getting some at cheap prices, but we wouldn’t pay more than $30 million each, and that’s if we looked at them at all,” Bruenjes said. Airbus faces an even tougher task if gets the green light from Beijing, since its half of the proposed A340 fleet trade-in is older at roughly 15 years and the model has less range. Ascend’s market value for those five A340-300 jets is $15 million each, but Bruenjes estimated a seller would be lucky to get much more than the value of the engines-some $4 million.

The A340 averaged $250 million new at list prices before it was taken out of production. In practice jetmakers take trade-ins to facilitate new sales rather than make extensive profits. Airbus says a future jet, the carbon-composite A350-1000, will leapfrog the 777 and wrest back one of the most lucrative parts of the global airliner market from Boeing. Pending that jet’s arrival in 2017, the smaller A330 is selling well and the 777 is said to compete on occasions with the much larger A380. Boeing is considering revamping the 777 to protect its grip on the 300-400 seat market and try to pre-empt the challenge from the A350-1000, which is still trying to establish momentum.- Reuters
 
rheinwaldner
Posts: 1868
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:58 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 71):
over 1000 747 were sold but only 47 were SP's.

Well in that light the SP and the A340 seem not that much comparable...
Many things are difficult, all things are possible!
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:23 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 75):
It wasn't a rumour and sent shock waves all over the place. NOBODY wants to see another airline Lose an airplane and this guy set off a PANIC in London and Singapore before the SQ A340 landed.

During flight from London to Singapore that A340 must have been under radar coverage at that time, why would people panic instead of contacting other authorities to confirm it's still on their radar?

If your story is true I believe that A340 either had some kind of malfunction that caused them to fly slower / stay in way below cruising altitude for long time or had to fly longer route, pure cruising speed difference between 777 and A340 simply can't create that big difference in flying time.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15911
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:24 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 75):
well the result of SQ's dumping the A340 for the B777 was Boeing Took them in on a trade and probably made $0.00 on selling the used airplanes, What's more?? They did it AGAIN with 17 A340's For China Eastern..
But I wa s at WORK the day the 777 landed before the SQ 340 and an SQ passenger reported to his Company That HE believed the SQ A340 must have Crashed because he left Behind them and landed in front of them. By 1 HR.
It wasn't a rumour and sent shock waves all over the place. NOBODY wants to see another airline Lose an airplane and this guy set off a PANIC in London and Singapore before the SQ A340 landed. We actually HAD an SQ 340 and an SQ 747-412 on the ground preparing to depart. from the Old SFO International Terminal as UAL was the Only USA Based Airline for a while Qualified on the A340 By Lufthansa and Singapore. (Star Alliance Partners)
here is the article I quoted

Did you ask yourself if United ever actually operated the SIN-LHR route ? let alone with a 777 ?

Boeing made money on the sale of the A340s, I flew some of those aircraft for years. So did EK.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
flyingalex
Posts: 624
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:32 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 78):
Did you ask yourself if United ever actually operated the SIN-LHR route ? let alone with a 777 ?

They didn't. And BA didn't start flying 777s between Singapore and London until long after SQ dumped their A343s.

I'm going to say what you're thinking and call BS.

Quoting PM (Reply 50):
But I might add the customer's perspective. I've done 23 flights on various A340s in Economy and Business and it remains a preferred airliner if I have the choice.

I suppose I'm suggesting that there is more than one way to look at 'flop'. A 10-abreast 777 will kick sand in the face of an 8-abreast A340 in terms of generating income for the airline. But, having flown on both, I know which is the better travelling experience.

Amen, brother!
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar!
 
Boeing777300
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:26 am

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:36 am

As far as I recall, no airline has regularly flown an A340-300 from SIN-LHR, certainly not Singapore Airlines, upto the A380 service it was always 747 based service once they entered the SIA fleet, along with 777-300ER until recently when the 3 x daily became all A380 then when the 4th daily service it has been a 777-300ER again.

The only time I have ever seen a SIA 340 near LHR is OTT from EWR-SIN direct.
Today, I am absolutely fantastic, tomorrow, who knows?
 
dennys
Posts: 694
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

RE: Was The A340 A Flop?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:46 pm

For me the A340 is still flying , and that makes me happy . I feel quite safer on a fine looking quad than on a twin , specially on overseas routes such as JNB PER , JNB NYC , EZE JNB or EZE SYD over the Antartic Ocean .

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos