'Tis The Season - Caribbean Aviation Thread 103

2travel2know2 · Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 196):
TOTAL ASSETS: COPA IS GOING LOW COST FOR SURE!

PTY-ADZ is a 50min flight, lucky passengers getting patties included in airfare.

Avianca · Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:04 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 195):
Hard to believe indeed, as SJU-CCS was the only non-AA hub route left out of SJU.
AA must be too dumb to just drop the route (and the authority) knowing it's practically impossible for a U.S. airline to get frequencies to Venezuela.

but most passengers in fact use the flight for transiting to NYC and MIA.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 195):
Now if AA really is dropping SJU-CCS, there's a sizable O/D traffic between Puerto Rico and Venezuela so somebody will get it.. Both 7I and BW should study how to take advantage of the lack of flights between those

as mentioned many passengers on the flight are passengers bound to JFK and MIA. would be a shame if its true that they cancled the flight.

airfrancejfk · Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:12 pm

Does anyone know if Westjet's seasonal service to POS will operate in the summer specifically August. I know the current service ends in April. Would really like to see these guys go year round.

andrefranca · Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:12 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 200):

I was horrified, CTG-BOG a glass of juice.... it's worse than Brazil now LOL and NOT CHEAP! next time I'll go vivacolombia then lol

yellowtail · Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 203):
I was horrified, CTG-BOG a glass of juice.... it's worse than Brazil now LOL and NOT CHEAP! next time I'll go vivacolombia then lol

Suggest you stock up at the airport cafe before flying SAP=BZE....no meal service on the 208s!~

LimaFoxTango · Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:45 pm

I see BW's GEO - YYZ flight is enroute to ANU today presumably as a fuel stop as it is operated by a 738. A quick check on flightaware shows its not the first time. Probs with the 767 lately?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...6/history/20130129/1745Z/SYCJ/TAPA

caribbean484 · Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 205):
I see BW's GEO - YYZ flight is enroute to ANU today presumably as a fuel stop as it is operated by a 738. A quick check on flightaware shows its not the first time. Probs with the 767 lately?

No it's a Government official added flight, as it has been operating for the past two weeks on behalf of the Government of Antigua.

andrefranca · Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 204):

But at least Tropic was cheaper! lol

guyanam · Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting airfrancejfk (Reply 202):

I think that BW's usual trick of eliminating competition by flooding the market and killing yields worked. Westjet is off after April, and apparently not coming back for the busy summer. YYZ POS is a VFR/business route so I cannot imagine that WS only planned winter service. Aside from the Xmas/New Year and Carnival periods, demand is very soft in the winter months on these VFR routes, and summer is the best season.

caribbean484 · Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:46 am

Copa loaded their schefule
CM314 PTY-POS D:19:12 A:23:22
CM315 POS-PTY D:06:23 A:08:28
operates 5x weekly, Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Sat.

So it will overnight in POS and leave early morning

[Cayman Islands] Air and cruise arrivals up
"Air arrivals in the Cayman Islands in 2012 were the highest in 11 years, while cruise arrivals were up on last year’s numbers, tourism minister Cline Glidden said Thursday.
Last year, 321,650 tourists flew into Cayman, an increase of 12,558 people or 4.1 per cent over air arrivals in 2011.
December posted the highest number of arrivals for the month of December in 12 years, with 35,408 visitors flying in – an increase of 6.2 per cent over December 2011.
Mr. Glidden said the air arrival numbers had “exceeded all expectations”.
Cruise arrivals were also up, with 1,570,370 people arriving by ship last year, an increase of 7.6 per cent on 2011.
However, Mr. Glidden pointed out that, while the cruise numbers were up year on year, 2011 had been “a very bad year” for cruise arrivals. “Obviously, we’re still  concerned about the number even though we have an increase in 2012,” he said."
http://www.compasscayman.com/caycomp.../02/01/Air-and-cruise-arrivals-up/

Not much in the news these days

A388 · Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 209):
Not much in the news these days

Indeed, I'm just waiting on the first flight of LIAT to CUR on their brandnew ATR!!! June, right?

A388

caribbean484 · Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:45 pm

Sunwing Airlines plans to sue couple over diverted Caribbean flight
"A Canadian low-cost airline says it plans to sue a couple after they were fined US$500 each in a court here following an altercation on a Caribbean-bound plane which forced the captain to divert the airline to Bermuda."
Read more: http://www.caribbean360.com/index.ph...uda_news/663930.html#ixzz2K9arn0k4

Just wow that sounds like real drama in the air.

Guyana processing EzJet refunds
"The Ministry of Public Works on Tuesday announced that fund claims of affected EZjet passengers are currently being processed and that it will notify the public through the media when payments are ready.
The Government Information said the Guyana government would be only refunding passengers who purchased their tickets in Guyana. The US $200,000 bond deposit which was lodged by the airline to enter the Guyana market will be used for the refunds."
http://www.demerarawaves.com/index.p...yana-processing-ezjet-refunds.html

hausauflennon · Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:07 pm

Quoting turk223 (Reply 191):
Well, now I have completely given up all hope that CM wil EVER start PTY-BGI

I haven't quite given up hope. If only we can get more aggressive aviation and tourism professionals into our tourism authority and the ministry...we'd see some development.

They should hire me. I'd get you that PTY-BGI in no time.

guyanam · Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:03 pm

Quoting hausauflennon (Reply 212):

Bdos needs to get as aggressive about attracting tourists from Latin Am as Jamaica is. That is the only way there will be a PTY-BGI, as I doubt there is the business traffic which exists into and out of T&T. Indeed the additional CM service to POS provides better connecting opportunities on BW and LI for people traveling to/from neighboring countries.

The Bajan descended population in Panama is too disconnected from BGI to be a consistent source of business. Few of them have real ties, given the tremendous time perioid since their ancestors left BGI, and the paucity of links since then.

yellowtail · Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:32 am

Quoting hausauflennon (Reply 212):
They should hire me. I'd get you that PTY-BGI in no time.

It is a lot harder than you think...trust me...

A388 · Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:55 pm

Guys,

AA's 737 wearing the new livery was in Curacao yesterday and this morning (overnight flight). See my photos in below links:

http://planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=1198817

http://planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=1198841

http://planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=1198816

At first I didn't like this new livery at all but after seeing more photos and having seen it in person too, I like it a lot now LOL

Cheers,

A388

817Dreamliiner · Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:58 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 215):

Great Photos A388! Glad you got to photograph it so soon! Cant wait to see it for myself one day.

caribbean484 · Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:29 am

Delta Airlines scraps Georgetown-New York route
"Delta Airlines has decided to pull out of Guyana, ending its five year old direct charter service between New York and Georgetown, well-placed sources said.
A Delta Airlines Latin America spokesperson did not immediately respond to queries. A reservations agent in the United States said there were no available flights in June but he could not give a reason."

http://www.demerarawaves.com/index.p...s-georgetown-new-york-flights.html

Not sure if this is true but this is one interesting information that is coming out. I just checked the GDS the flights are still on there, but the flights have been zeroed out in the booking system.
Well EZjet caused one casualty in their pricing structure and it seems that DL lost a load of money on the route during the last 12 months fighting to keep market share with CAL and EZjet.

yellowtail · Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:52 am

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 217):
Delta Airlines scraps Georgetown-New York route

there is more to this than LFs

caribbean484 · Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:28 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 218):

Could be the ridiculous price for jet A1 out of GEO, low cost competition last year or they are looking for compensation from the GEO government. Either way I am surprise they are cutting the route. They cut POS, GND and ANU are seasonal, and now GEO is gone.

hausauflennon · Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 214):
It is a lot harder than you think...trust me...

Evidently

hausauflennon · Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 213):
Bdos needs to get as aggressive about attracting tourists from Latin Am as Jamaica is.

For risk of sounding like a broken record, I couldn't agree any more with this sentiment. Latin America is geographically very close to us, and economically, economies like Brazil are on the rise and are becoming globally more influential as traditional tourism source markets for us slide into recession (i.e US, UK, Europe). We managed to secure GOL out of Brazil's economic capital, GRU, some years ago and there has been little done since to stimulate the Brazilian market and develop it as a new, potentially lucrative tourist source market for the island! It is simply depressing how laissez-faire the Barbadian tourism powers-that-be have been with developing Brazil and other Latin American markets, such as the same Panama.

I just wish they would take a look around and realize that as a tourism destination, our very complacent approach and laid-back, "they will come anyway because we have beaches" attitude to developing Barbados for the 21st century tourism industry, is a recipe for certain disaster as other, similar Caribbean outposts are beginning to outshine us and outperform us in the global market.

There's only so much Rihanna can do for the island.

guyanam · Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 217):

BW is still charging low fare son its nonstop route. DL lost its biggest competitive feature, being the only credible nonstop to GEO, and so either had to match these fares, or exit.

Its never good for one airline to dominate any market, so lets hope PY begins their PBM GEO JFK service soon. BW should actually welcome then, as if they have a monopoly other, more formidable carriers might decide to jump in. B6 if they get enough planes to service a route of this length, being one option as they have already had chats with the govt of GY. Two carriers on the route will keep them out as it is not very heavy for 8 months of the year.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 219):

GND is seasonal becaiuse the GND govt is not interested in paying a subsidy to DL, to cover low LFs in these periods, when BW is available, and preferred by Grenadians who dominate the JFK GND route. DL seems to ahve dropped JFK ANU because if they arent flying during the busiest period, the winter, do not know when else they would. AA drove them out with their higher frequencies.

Quoting hausauflennon (Reply 221):

I often get the impression that the powers that be in Bdos tourism feel that seats available means butts in seats. Our resident "Caribbean" Brazilian, had a very bad experience on that island and I cant imagine that he is the only one. If a Brazilian can go to SXM, AUA, the Dom Rep, etc and get decent treatment, no need to bother with Bdos.

Bdos isnt even doing well in the US market. Note that they are back to the JFK MIA (token service from CLT) and excessively dependent on AA (we do not know what that airline plans for the Caribbean. Once you back out Bajans and their descendants i suspect that SLU gets more US visitors.

caribbean484 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:21 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 222):

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 218):

As I mentioned before the one thing CAL has over DL is a lower operating cost, economies of scale which in turn offers a vast share of pricing and scheduling.
Maybe Inbound can correct me, but when Brunton was COO of CAL, their policy was to tanker fuel out of Trinidad into and out of Guyana as to not pay the high price of Jet A there.
CAL had over 70% of the JFK-GEO market despite the stop in POS and provides over 80% of the capacity there also. Looking at the Easter Period, their flights are already book solid on all markets and with Summer coming around the corner, the 3rd 767 will be much needed extra lift. I predict that they will increase the 424/425 daily and run the 526/527 more frequently.

It will be interesting so see PY start the route, whether they would use the A340 or as a rumor said last year switch to the 767, we will see. As for now and the foreseeable future CAL will remain dominant in GEO and GND.

A388 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:12 pm

Quoting hausauflennon (Reply 221):
more influential as traditional tourism source markets for us slide into recession (i.e US, UK, Europe). We managed to secure GOL out of Brazil's economic capital, GRU,

Does G3 still serve BGI?

A388

windian425 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:06 pm

Yes, G3 still operates a weekly 738 to BGI.

A388 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:28 pm

Quoting windian425 (Reply 225):
Yes, G3 still operates a weekly 738 to BGI.

Okay, thanks. How is the flight performing (high or low load factor)? They used to fly the 767 on the route but now it's a 738(?)

A388

BE77 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 223):
It will be interesting so see PY start the route, whether they would use the A340 or as a rumor said last year switch to the 767, we will see.

PY is currently running a PBM>GEO>MIA routing with 733's (which they have 2 and a third is supposed to arrive soon). The A340 is dedicated to the PBM-AMS flights. and would not make much sense at all I think on North American routing.
Haven't heard anything recently about a 767 for PY, but it sounds like it would be a reasonable replacement for the A340. Although a 767 would more likely be better than an A340 for US destinations, I am not sure there is the demand for any widebody PBM to MIA or JFK. Even now there are a lot of empty seats many days on the BW, 7I, and PY flights (haven't flown 9H yet, but I imagine they are not full all the time either), so adding more north bound capacity won't do much for yields.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 222):
so lets hope PY begins their PBM GEO JFK service soon

I'm just hoping that PY can eventually start a direct PBM-MIA routing - it would certainly give a lot more options and better timing, without needing to stop enroute somewhere. I think it's only due to not meeting the required FAA airport category.
A PBM-JFK route would be nice too, but probably not as strong a demand as there would be for a MIA routing. Would you even be able to reach PBM-JFK in a 733?

A388 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting BE77 (Reply 227):
I think it's only due to not meeting the required FAA airport category.

That is not true. If the FAA downgrades a country, it means that no aircraft with the registration of that country can fly to the U.S. when it was downgraded. If Surinam was downgraded before PY started their MIA service then they can keep flying the route without adding more capacity or starting new routes. Seeing that PY uses is own Surinamese registered aircraft to MIA there is something else that prefends PY from flying directly to the U.S. (maybe the TSA (security reasons?)).

A388

BE77 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 208):
Westjet is off after April, and apparently not coming back for the busy summe

From the WestJet / Encore thread
WestJet Encore Announcement Feb 11 (by flyb Feb 7 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Straight from airlineroute.net

http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/11/ws-caribbean-s13/

WestJet in Summer 2013 season (from May 2013) is expanding operations to The Caribbean as well as Central America, with service to Liberia in Costa Rica and Port of Spain converting to year-round service. A number of Caribbean routes from Toronto will see additional flights added, compared to Summer 2012.

New Year-Round Routes:
Toronto – Liberia
WS2742 YYZ0910 – 1223LIR 73W 5
WS2743 LIR1315 – 2031YYZ 73W 5

Toronto – Port of Spain
WS2772 YYZ2325 – 0504+1POS 73W D
WS2773 POS0605 – 1149YYZ 73W D

So it looks like POS is not cancelled!

BE77 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 228):
(maybe the TSA (security reasons?)).

Could well be the TSA or similar sort of logic.

I thought it had something to do with he FAA ratings, so I looked it up and found this
http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/iasa/

Looking at the excel list, Suriname rates a 1, while Guyana is a 2, so definitely the problem is not that PY is not adequately regulated, so they should be able to add flights to the US (which they have done with the relatively recent GEO-MIA flight).
I guess that leaves TSA or similar issues. SInce they have redone the security checkpoints in PBM in the last few months, maybe it is in support of improving the security rankings?

windian425 · Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:13 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 226):

The performance of this flight varies throughout the year. During peak periods load factors are high (75%+) and in the low periods they fall as low as 30%. So overall its marginal at best...

Inbound · Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:10 am

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 223):
Maybe Inbound can correct me, but when Brunton was COO of CAL, their policy was to tanker fuel out of Trinidad into and out of Guyana as to not pay the high price of Jet A there.

Yes 484, that's partially correct. We tanker fuel to GEO with enough to come back to POS on the return sector. It's also done to avoid the hassle of having the fuel trucks come out late at night to service our planes.

Now with 526 on the 767, we tanker some to GEO, but uplift the rest there before heading to JFK.

guyanam · Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting BE77 (Reply 227):

The PY PBM GEO JFK has nothing to do with service between PBM and JFK. Its to replace DL on the JFK GEO sector. I do not see BW being able to handle the volume, plus it is not agood idea for one airline to as thoroughly dominate a market as BW will once DL pulls out.

Imagine ONE airline with 90% market share!!!!

Quoting BE77 (Reply 229):

It appears as if Westjet has decided to extend service. When I made the comment about them being off the POS route their own website had a listing of seasonal routes and POS was one of them.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 223):

Do you really think that a route as lucartive a sthe JFK GEO will be allowed to be monopolized by one carrier? At least on the JFK POS those willing to stop over in MIA can use AA, which keeps BWs fares in line. But with GEO lacking such options, and with passengers liking to have alternate options some one is going to jump into the JFK GEO. After all Guyanese are the fifth largest immigrant group in the NY area.

If Jetblue does come in, they will be a more vigorous competitor than DL, was. DL was content to laze around with diminishing market share as they charged those who used them to avoid a POS stop, a huge premium. Of course those days ended last year when BW and EZ became nonstop.

[Edited 2013-02-13 11:34:01]

[Edited 2013-02-13 11:35:41]

wadadli · Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:57 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 222):
DL seems to ahve dropped JFK ANU because if they arent flying during the busiest period, the winter, do not know when else they would. AA drove them out with their higher frequencies.

DL still operates on an even more adhoc basis than before. They flew for a few weeks in December and January 1X weekly and are still returning for peak summer July and August 1X weekly. Hardly worth the effort IMO....

Quoting BE77 (Reply 229):
WestJet in Summer 2013 season (from May 2013) is expanding operations to The Caribbean as well as Central America, with service to Liberia in Costa Rica and Port of Spain converting to year-round service. A number of Caribbean routes from Toronto will see additional flights added, compared to Summer 2012.

New Year-Round Routes:
Toronto – Liberia
WS2742 YYZ0910 – 1223LIR 73W 5
WS2743 LIR1315 – 2031YYZ 73W 5

Toronto – Port of Spain
WS2772 YYZ2325 – 0504+1POS 73W D
WS2773 POS0605 – 1149YYZ 73W D

So it looks like POS is not cancelled!

Great news. In related news, they will also announce ANU as year round with Sat only service from May 4th, 2013 with their 737-800 compared to 2X wed,sun 737-700 which has been operating through the winter.

andrefranca · Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:28 am

Hellloooooo Caribbeannn peopllleeeee, looked dead didn't I? but it was not for lack of trying I can tell you that! LOOOOL I was stucked in the 60's in HAV afffffff finally got out! I'm in GCM now, some pics!

BW424 · Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:19 pm

New Forum is up folks!!

Changing Currents- Caribbean Aviation Thread 104 (by BW424 Feb 14 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Nic epics Andrefranca!! Still need to find the time to visit GCM.

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