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tripple7
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:52 pm

Very sad story  

Regarding some of the posters that comment that it would be unsafe to have her onboard and this would be a safety hazard while evacuating an aircraft, I can't imagine that this was the reason why the airlines did not let her fly.

I have been on plenty of flights where disabled, blind, very old, fat, and other immobile persons were onboard, yet all these people are allowed boarding and are allowed to fly, even when they can seriously slow down an evacuation. Off course airlines have the right to refuse boarding as well (e.g. intoxicated passengers). So overall physique state is not a reason to fly or not to fly. Going in more detail in this case...and looking at the video and pictures, this woman is seriously obese and I am puzzled on how she would be able to get on board of an airplane in the first place. How would she fit through the aisles...? I can understand that airlines would deny her boarding for the simple too obese reason and not being able to fit her in - this is quite an extreme case 200KG + (450 pounds) is immense obese. They even tried to!

It really makes you wonder how she got to Europe, which seemed to be no issue? Unfortunately the story does not elaborate on this too much...other than she gained weight...which must have been considerable then. It is off course a bit weird that travelling to Hungary is no problem...but travelling back is. The airlines appear to have tried quite some actions to get her back home...but have all failed. This is very unfortunate...but after that she should have sought medical treatment...as she had become unfit to fly. The amount of weight she gained during her vacation was probably what pushed her over the limits of what was still possible (assuming there is not much info)

This is a very sad situation...but can't see the point and relevance to sue these airlines. This will not hold in court ... I hope. For example what would have happened in case of a period of bad weather (e.g. Sandy) and airports are closed a couple of days? In that case she would not be able to fly as well. When you are in such a desperate medical situation as this woman...you should consider staying closer to your home hospital when you are not willing to accept the quality or pay for medical treatment abroad. It appears that people are losing their own self-discipline or take responsibility for their own actions.

My 2 cents....
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
So, if they were able to get her there, I don´t see how legally they can´t get her back. Unless of course she put on an excessive amount of weight, which I find hard to believe, but possible.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
If she is in renal (and probably heart) failure and did not have access to proper dialysis treatment, she easily could have gained tens of pounds worth of fluid.

And they were on vacation, so I doubt she was eating salads. I typically work out everyday, but still managed to gain three pounds over Thanksgiving (6 days, I don't mess around on the holidays!).

I can't imagine any lawsuit would hold up, *assuming* she traveled against her doctors wishes and declined medical treatment in Hungary.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:35 pm

Pretty amazing. My question is...If she traveled from the USA to Europe, was the aircraft she traveled on equipped with Panasonic Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors? I just had to ask.  
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
Unless of course she put on an excessive amount of weight, which I find hard to believe, but possible.
Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 51):
And they were on vacation, so I doubt she was eating salads. I typically work out everyday, but still managed to gain three pounds over Thanksgiving (6 days, I don't mess around on the holidays!).

Again, I think you're judging a condition based on very limited information. A person whose kidneys and/or circulatory system is shutting down can begin retaining fluids which can blow her up like a balloon in a matter of days. She may not have led an active life - exercising and avoiding carbs, cigarettes and the like - but honestly the vast majority of folks in our country don't - and few of them end up like this. I don't recall reading snarky comments when a person who dies of a heart attack while on board a plane - "That's what he gets for leading a sedentary lifestyle", "He only has himself to blame," "Maybe he should have skipped the rich dessert."

I don't think casting judgment on her is helpful - or is the proper subject of this thread. From the photos, this was obviously a very ill woman whose size does not conform to the typical space provided a passenger on a modern commercial airliner. The issue raised is whether airlines have, or should have, an obligation to transport such individuals, not whether she deserves her fate.
 
AA94
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:39 pm

First off, I feel incredibly bad for this poor woman, and I'm sorry this story had to have the ending that it did.

However, I fail to see how the circumstances that ensued are in any way the fault of Delta or any of the carriers that transported her (or at least attempted to).

Her first mistake, I believe, was choosing to go overseas while afflicted with a serious illness, especially if she and her husband "didn't believe the doctors were familiar enough" with her medical needs. Before going overseas, it's prudent to check your insurance policy and be aware of what it covers, as well as the care situation in the country you'll be visiting. I do it before every trip and I'm healthy. It's just good practice.

Further, I don't see how any of the airlines involved "discriminated" against her. They all attempted to get her onboard and get her comfortable, but just weren't able to. In an emergency, her weight and immobility would be a mitigating factor against both her safety and the safety of others around her.

An airline didn't kill her, her sickness did. While I am truly sympathetic to her plight, her death doesn't become the responsibility of a carrier just because they denied her the ability to travel.
 
ozark1
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 20):
Airlines are responsible for the health and safety of every single one of their passengers. If one person is too fat and subsequently is a hazard for other passengers in case of emergency (blocking the isle, blocking the emergency exits, hampering passengers from egress) than it's the airlines obligation to deny that passenger transportation. Simple as that!

This is absolutely right. She could have been an extreme hazard in an emergency.
 
LLA001
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:26 pm

I don't have much to say about this particular incident, airlines are not meant to be ambulances, if you are sick or need medical assistance in a flight, a regular airline should not be your transportation.

It is very sad to hear about her death, I can not point fingers at the faulty party too, is it her and her family or the airlines. A judge somewhere will decide that, hopefully with the right decision.

however I am a bit disturbed by this event,


When I follow the news, the number of people who are even bigger than people we consider obese is increasing. Their numbers maybe are very small but they exist.

It is easy to tell them not to travel, or not to eat too much so they don't become 250 kgs, 300 kgs, 400 kgs, 500 kgs or 635 kgs ( that is the record for one persons weight so far) . However I don't think we even don't know the true cause of their increased weight, every day there is another research talking about a different cause.

So if we assume it is not their fault, then why we are saying with comfort that they shouldn't even to bother to fly. Why are we bothering to build an infrastructure for all other disabled people for them to access to all of the public buildings and transportation? but at the same time when another type of condition or disability exists among humanity, we just tell them to find a private plane.

This is not a once in a life time event, more people with extra extra weight will want to travel in the future, why does not the airlines design special seats for them. Airlines used to allow passengers rent three seats or five seats and turn them into stretchers during regular flights, so why cant we just try to make the same effort for very big people. We have many genius designers who are designing first class or business class seats that turn into bed, a dinner table for two and a regular seat, I am sure they can find a solution that can convert one part of the aircraft that turns into these kind of condition. Yes there is a safety problem, but I am sure we could find a solution to evacuate and overweight person without effecting anyone else.

I know to talk about idealism during recession times is difficult, why the airlines should pay for such adjustments that will happen maybe once or twice a month or even a year? and why we as the passengers should pay more for that? A hundred years ago, people who were not able to walk did not have a chance to travel to even neighbours house now can travel to anywhere in the world with much ease. I am sure if we put a little effort into this problem we can find an optimum solution for everyone to travel, whatever height, width or weight they have.

Somewhere on the internet now, I am sure there are bunch of people who are surfing through google earth and pretending that they are traveling around the world. Wouldn't be a bit better of our humanity, even with their humongous size, they had a reasonably affordable and safe traveling options just like us and had a chance to fly so they can see this beautiful world as we do everyday?
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:30 pm

Her weight is not so much the issue but rather her shape obviously makes it difficult to move around. My first question is how much weight could she have gained in exactly one month that she spent in Hungary? Secondly, she should not have been travelling away from a person familiar with her health issues. I'm wouldn't be surprised if she gained extra weight due to the lack of medical care while she was vacationing in Hungary.
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 24):
I wonder if this refusal of available care can be turned around on the family and criminal action taken against them.

No, there is no legal requirement to accept medical care. Similarly, if a next of kin refuses medical care on behalf of an incapacitated patient then they are not legally responsible for their death.

The easiest way of thinking about this is that the patient would have died naturally anyway. While there might have been a reasonable chance of saving them had they received appropriate care, the lack of care wasn't actually the root cause of why they died.

There has been some fairly controversial cases about this, which normally involve somebody smashing their car and injuring somebody in the other car. The person in the other car is taken to hospital, where they refuse care and later die. When the family of the deceased sue the original driver, there is a counter claim that the person would still be alive if they had accepted medical treatment. The courts have been pretty consistent in saying that as the cause of death was the injuries sustained in the accident, then they are liable regardless of intermediate events.
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FrankAMS
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:30 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 57):

Well yes, obviously her size is the issue. If she was 220kg and was 3m tall, I don't think there'd be a huge issue save legroom. But I think it's safe to say that the weight is the reason for her size, and in this instance, the two are interchangeable seeing as her weight was the ultimate reason for ejection from the aircraft (she couldn't be lifted into the seat because she was so heavy).

I do feel bad for this woman, but I have little sympathy for the husband. It seems to me that he's grieving and using his grief as a crutch to game the system and elicit compensation. I don't doubt he loved her, but I know my family would be saying: "yes, it sucks, but it's not the airline's fault he was so heavy." She would have had to have had a serious medical problem before she even left, and had to have known that it was a risky move, traveling. The fact that she brazenly went ahead and traveled is not the airline's fault by any means.

That said, I must say condescension in this thread is amazing. I'm sure that personal responsibility has something to do with it (even kidney failure and water retention will not make a normal-sized person 220kg all of a sudden), but if she had mental health problems which led to her weight problems (ie depression) the fault lies partially in our own system, which apparently let her fall through the cracks. No, she shouldn't have traveled, and the husband should definitely not be suing the airlines, but this whole story might have been avoided if she had proper treatment and help for all of her problems, something which could have been hard for her to do in our current culture. At any rate, we don't know all the facts, and judging her because she was so heavy is easy to do, but neither respectful nor called for. The point is not that she couldn't travel, the point is that her husband is suing because she couldn't travel. The reason for her not traveling is not in question, it's the husband's motives!
 
AR385
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 51):
And they were on vacation, so I doubt she was eating salads.

As a diabetic myself I can assure you that if I don´t stick to my diet, exercise and medication, even during vacation, I´m going to be pretty miserable for the next couple of months, not to mention the increase on my risk of acquiring numerous, unpleasant illnesses.

So I do think she stuck to her diet. Maybe I could wing it, and indulge somewhat but somebody in her condition can´t. So the mentioned increase of her weight was probably due to her kydneys and her heart not working properly.

Which brings us back to the question: If she was that ill, why did she travel.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 53):
Again, I think you're judging a condition based on very limited information. A person whose kidneys and/or circulatory system is shutting down can begin retaining fluids which can blow her up like a balloon in a matter of days.

I was not passing a judgement on anyone and i´m sorry that my post conveyed that. I was just wondering how the airlines that took her there in the first place were refusing to take her back. I believe the answer to that has now been established.
 
apjung
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 16):

Processed foods in America use high fructose corn syrup instead of real sugar compared to the rest of the world. It's possibly a major culprit to the obesity epidemic. That's why I avoid it as much as possible. Do you see any morbidly obese people in France?
Andy P. Jung
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 56):
So if we assume it is not their fault, then why we are saying with comfort that they shouldn't even to bother to fly. Why are we bothering to build an infrastructure for all other disabled people for them to access to all of the public buildings and transportation? but at the same time when another type of condition or disability exists among humanity, we just tell them to find a private plane.

Because obesity in and of itself is not a disability.

This woman was disabled because, among other things, she was missing a leg.

Quoting apjung (Reply 61):
rocessed foods in America use high fructose corn syrup instead of real sugar compared to the rest of the world. It's possibly a major culprit to the obesity epidemic. That's why I avoid it as much as possible. Do you see any morbidly obese people in France?

I don't want to drag this too much off-topic, but the HFCS thing is way overblown. The fact is that HFCS is no worse for you than regular sugar (sucrose). Note that aI am not saying that HFCS is safe or healthy. I am saying that regular sugar is every bit as bad. There are a number of studies that back this up. There have been a few animal studies with some significant methodological flaws that have shown HFCS to be worse than sugar, but in humans no difference has been noted.

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 51):
And they were on vacation, so I doubt she was eating salads.

Not only that, but I bet she was eating salty food, which is the kiss of death for a renal patient.

Let's face it: she didn't get into this condition in the first place by following medical advice. I highly doubt that she continued to follow medical advice while on vacation.
-Doc Lightning-

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boeingrulz
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:10 am

Please, do we have to discuss these sensationalistic stories about fat and obese people? The population in the United States is getting more obese for various reasons. The issue is not simple. I just attended a lecture about nutragenomics and nutragenetics and there are many factors dealting with nutritional status of parents and the foetus that affect their epigenetics and thus their ability to have a healthy weight. I am overweight myself and have been struggling for 12 years to get to the point where I fit in an airline seat with some comfort. Economics have an affects so the most inexpensive widely available food is high in fat and simple carbohydrates.

Needless to say there are not easy answers but sensationalizing the issue does not help.
 
MD-90
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:07 am

Since she's missing a foot (likely from diabetes) and would need a wheelchair of some sort...am I the only one wondering how she could fit down the aisle of an aircraft? She looks pretty wide. And how in the world would she manage if she needed to use the lav?

I feel sorry for her but maybe she should've planned to take the Queen Mary 2 instead.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 64):
I feel sorry for her but maybe she should've planned to take the Queen Mary 2 instead.

I'm not sure Cunard would have taken someone so medically fragile.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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9VSIO
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:35 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 7):
they could have chartered a private plane. But I guess the lack of appropriate cover for medical evacuation would have ruled that out.

Plenty of med-evac companies out there. I suppose the trick is to choose the right one.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 8):
don´t see how a smaller private jet med-evac aircraft would have been able to fit her inside.

You'd be surprised at what can be converted into dedicated med-evac aircraft.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Can you transport a passenger commercially in a cargo plane? No seat? No seatbelt? That can't possibly be legal.

Besides, how much is that going to cost?

It doesn't have to be a full blown 747F. Something smaller will do. Some cargo aircraft (ex-military) can be fitted with seat racks. At times when a life is at risk, I would suggest that costs take a back seat in the decision making process.
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:23 am

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 66):
At times when a life is at risk, I would suggest that costs take a back seat in the decision making process.

Unless you simply can't afford it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
woodsboy
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:40 am

Here is what does not matter: How or why she became so obese, it has no bearing on the situation or her rights to travel or whatever. What matters is that her size made it manifestly unsafe to travel both for her and other passengers. Airplanes, and as we have argued, cars are designed to be safe for the vast majority of sizes of people and also are designed to be able to operate safely and efficiently within these parameters. There is just no way that someone who is 400+ pounds can be safe on an airplane, no way. They will not be able to fit/ walk down any aisle or fit in the lavatory. They will not be able to evacuate safely, not to mention the health risks someone of that size experiences on extended international air travel. There comes a time when someone who is morbidly obese will not be able to safely travel and it is not only up to them to realize this but ultimately the airline to determine that while protecting the safety and comfort of crews and other passengers. You can buy 2-3-4-5 sears for an obese person, that does not make it safe for them to fly.
 
2175301
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:26 pm

The crux of the argument is that Airline "A" was willing to fly her from the US to Europe while she was morbidly obese; but then not home again.

I am not sure how the Airline can explain that they are not responsible at some level for that.

Concerning health care outside of the US or Western Europe: This is an area that my wife and I was researching last week as it affects mortality rates - and she was really interested in why there was such a difference between the US and Western Europe and her home country (Ukraine) in life expectancy.

What we found was that by the mid 1960's the soviet block countries by and large had caught up in medical care with the US and Western Europe, and the mortality rates (and life expectancy) were essentially the same. However, since then the medical care in the Soviet Block countries steadily declined and mortality rates went up (expected age of death went down). By 1990 there was significant differences between the US and Western Europe mortality (and life expectancy) and the Soviet Block countries - and medical care was considered significantly substandard. With the breakup of the Soviet Union different countries have done different things - largely dependent on how well their economies have done. I do not recall the information for Hungary; but only two of the former Soviet Block countries had a notable improvement in health care and mortality (life expectancy) since 1990 (and even those have not even come close to catching up to the US and Western Europe). The rest further declined. With poor economies other factors (alcohol and drug use) have also increased in many of those countries which has further affected mortality (life expectancy) in the negative direction.

My wife has many stories concerning what exists for medical care and medical facilities in the Ukraine and Russia (and she moved from a large city in Ukraine this year); and is astonished at what is routinely available to all people here in the US. Two very simple examples: Anesthetic for dentistry is only available for the worst dental problems - thus people do not go to the dentist unless they are in major pain as the pain of dental procedures is substantial. Dentist routinely pull teeth (without anesthetic) instead of filling them. Most medical clinics do not have bathrooms with running water for the sinks. Hospitals may have one bathroom at the end of the hall with running water for the sinks. Modern medical equipment does not exist. A hospital may have purchased an 20+ year old old used machine from Europe - but they usually do not work (she has a friend in the main hospital in her city that was part of a purchase and installation of a used 1st generation MRI machine from Germany that they have never gotten to work).

Thus, I conclude that it is very likely that it is not reasonably possible to even get the kind of medical treatment considered standard in the US and Western Europe.

I can easily see someone with a medical condition deciding that they are in good enough condition to take a 1 or 2 week trip somewhere as long as they can return home afterwards.

Which gets back to the question of why was Airline A willing to fly her to Europe in the first case; and then not willing to fly her home again?

Have a great day,
 
9VSIO
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 69):
The crux of the argument is that Airline "A" was willing to fly her from the US to Europe while she was morbidly obese; but then not home again.

I understand that the patient in question gained weight during her stay in europe and thus could no longer safely belong in an aircraft. The airlines were willing to take the patient, but the patient could not be safely placed in the a/c.

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 56):

  
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
2175301
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 70):

I understand that the patient in question gained weight during her stay in europe and thus could no longer safely belong in an aircraft.

So did she gain 10 - 20 lb; or 50-100 lb during her vacation.

Many people gain 10-20 Lb on a vacation; and given that she weighted 425 Lb in the US before she left; that does not change the basic argument on why was it acceptable for Airline "A" to fly her to Europe and not return her. I actually believe that unless she gained 50+ lb on her visit that a lawsuit against Airline "A" will likely be found to be valid in the US courts based on the fact that they considered it acceptable to take her to Europe.

Have a great day,
 
Flighty
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:42 pm

Sad that the person had a debilitating food addiction, but substance abusers with health problems are not a protected class IMO.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting boeingrulz (Reply 63):
Economics have an affects so the most inexpensive widely available food is high in fat and simple carbohydrates.

Needless to say there are not easy answers but sensationalizing the issue does not help.

I agree. The reason why so many are fat in the US, I believe, is because living a healthy lifestyle is hard in the US. Walkable neighborhoods are expensive to live in, access to cheap, prepared healthy food is scarce and the stress of being poor, overburdened and vulnerable in a capitalist society makes one self-medicate with chemically satisfying yet calorie-dense and fattening food. These are not excuses but rather overwhelming environmental factors that play a role in obesity. We need to tackle the epidemic by fixing our society in addition to fixing our eating patterns. Given this, I believe airlines should make reasonable accommodations for the obese; this would include blocking one row of seats that can hold up to 1,000 pounds for assignment at the gate and designing planes so that the obese can reach the reinforced row. Extra seats should, however, be bought by the obese person so they do not inconvenience other passengers or deprive the airline of revenue by taking up more than one seat.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:25 pm

Quoting tripple7 (Reply 50):
It really makes you wonder how she got to Europe, which seemed to be no issue?

My guess is that boarding people of that size is fairly common in the US and they know how to do it, it's still fairly rare to see a massively obese person like this in Europe, especially somewhere link Hungary where people aren't big.

Quoting boeingrulz (Reply 63):
Economics have an affects so the most inexpensive widely available food is high in fat and simple carbohydrates.

That is simply not true, it's laziness, people find it much easier to buy take out than cook for themselves. Last time I looked fruit and vegetables were still very cheap.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 74):

Quoting boeingrulz (Reply 63):
Economics have an affects so the most inexpensive widely available food is high in fat and simple carbohydrates.

That is simply not true, it's laziness, people find it much easier to buy take out than cook for themselves. Last time I looked fruit and vegetables were still very cheap.

That's not generally true in the US. Because of extremely high grain subsidies (especially corn), $/calorie is much lower on high-carb and HFCS-sweetened foods. Fresh fruit and veg is also highly local, perishable, and has limited economies of scale while something with "infinite" shelf life and very high volume, like ramen noodles, is far cheaper.
 
AF1624
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting apjung (Reply 61):
Do you see any morbidly obese people in France?

Honestly? No.

I have seen obese people in France (actually, scratch that, the EU) but never to the point where it would restrict their movement.

I believe the various incentives we get to eat healthily in France help a lot. There's taxation on sodas, for example. There's also a phrase under every food-related ad saying "Eat healthy, at least 5 fruits or vegetables a day" or something along those lines. Etc. Just stating facts here, not saying it's better necessarily, but it helps IMO.
Cheers
 
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135mech
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 73):
The reason why so many are fat in the US, I believe, is because living a healthy lifestyle is hard in the US. Walkable neighborhoods are expensive to live in, access to cheap, prepared healthy food is scarce and the stress of being poor, overburdened and vulnerable in a capitalist society makes one self-medicate with chemically satisfying yet calorie-dense and fattening food. These are not excuses but rather overwhelming environmental factors that play a role in obesity.

So very true! It's a proven fact that when the economy craps out, McDonalds and the like make record sales because it's cheap and filling!

135Mech
135Mech
 
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135mech
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 73):
Extra seats should, however, be bought by the obese person so they do not inconvenience other passengers or deprive the airline of revenue by taking up more than one seat.



I agree, however there are a lot of obese people (especially Americans) that think they shouldn't have to pay for the upgrade to the bigger seats or for that extra seat... and get offended that they are being "called out"...however they REFUSE to think of the poor (not obese) person that they are squeezing into the window or isle and cannot be considerate of others.

No, I am NOT saying that all large people are this way, BUT...the ones that are, make all of the "noise" and ruin it for everyone else... and that probably is why the American gate attendant let them on, either for fear of the repercussions or this couple made that fuss and got on.... The first part of their flight is not covered, so we do not know how they actually got there in the first place.

Regards,
135mech
135Mech
 
lewis
Posts: 3586
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 69):

I can easily see someone with a medical condition deciding that they are in good enough condition to take a 1 or 2 week trip somewhere as long as they can return home afterwards.

I don't know what was going on in her head when she decided to travel around the world but considering her health had deteriorated so much, it would be safe to assume that staying close to home where proper healthcare is available would be the wise thing to do. Clearly she was not in a good enough condition to travel, especially to a place where she and her husband would not trust the healthcare providers.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 69):

Which gets back to the question of why was Airline A willing to fly her to Europe in the first case; and then not willing to fly her home again?
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 71):
I actually believe that unless she gained 50+ lb on her visit that a lawsuit against Airline "A" will likely be found to be valid in the US courts based on the fact that they considered it acceptable to take her to Europe.

The lawsuit will be "valid", as in a judge will likely agree to hear it... but there's literally ZERO chance of it succeeding.

Also, your wording is far from correct. The airline made EVERY attempt to get the woman on the plane. The simple fact was that it was IMPOSSIBLE for her to be loaded onto the airplane, as the firefighter/medical staff at the airport couldn't even lift her out of her wheelchair.

This wasn't some evil airline that discriminated against a fat person, this was a person that had no chance of fitting onto a standard airliner.

And, in case you missed it, she ballooned in the time she was in Hungary.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 72):
Sad that the person had a debilitating food addiction, but substance abusers with health problems are not a protected class IMO.

Who said that she had a food addiction?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
LFutia
Topic Author
Posts: 3159
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:04 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:47 pm

According to this article from the New York Post, the man is suing the 3 airlines for $6 million dollars

"The grieving husband of the Bronx woman who died after being told she was too fat to fly home from Eastern Europe is planning to sue three airlines for a total of $6 million.

“He wants to know why his wife had to die because the airlines simply didn’t want to be inconvenienced,” Ostrov-Ronai, the lawyer representing Janos Soltesz. said yesterday."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/j...bo_jet_suit_JNSa3bibMYDDqVOmJrs9dK


and then this article from ABC News states that they had no trouble boarding the flight from New York to Amsterdam.

"The couple flew from New York City to Budapest by way of Amsterdam on KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. Soltesz, who had one leg, got on the flight with the help of an airlift, and used a seatbelt extender when seated, Ostrov-Ronai said, adding that the couple had "no issues at all.""

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...uropean-vacation/story?id=17812883

Leo/ORD
Leo/ORD
 
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135mech
Posts: 411
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RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting LFutia (Reply 81):
"The couple flew from New York City to Budapest by way of Amsterdam on KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. Soltesz, who had one leg, got on the flight with the help of an airlift, and used a seatbelt extender when seated, Ostrov-Ronai said, adding that the couple had "no issues at all.""

UGH... So, an "airlift" and "seat belt extenders" are having "no issues at all"??? Sad that they thought this was a true statement!

135Mech
135Mech
 
lewis
Posts: 3586
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 82):
UGH... So, an "airlift" and "seat belt extenders" are having "no issues at all"??? Sad that they thought this was a true statement!

And that was before she gained weight and size during her trip. I still haven't read how much weight she actually gained there.
 
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135mech
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:56 pm

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 83):
Quoting 135mech (Reply 82):
UGH... So, an "airlift" and "seat belt extenders" are having "no issues at all"??? Sad that they thought this was a true statement!

And that was before she gained weight and size during her trip. I still haven't read how much weight she actually gained there.

Precisely! It's a sad that society condones and encoruages this!

135mech
135Mech
 
sweair
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:42 pm

Maybe some persons are just too big for a civilian airliner? Maybe they would need to go on a cargo aircraft, wider doors and better equipment to lift heavy stuff etc
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 83):

Quoting 135mech (Reply 82):
UGH... So, an "airlift" and "seat belt extenders" are having "no issues at all"??? Sad that they thought this was a true statement!

And that was before she gained weight and size during her trip. I still haven't read how much weight she actually gained there.

Yep...if someone's health can deteriorate so quickly and result in death, there is no way said person should be away from their primary physician, especially 4000 miles away.

There is no personal responsibility with this couple and it's a microcosm of today's society in the United States...
 
AA94
Posts: 768
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:00 pm

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 69):
The crux of the argument is that Airline "A" was willing to fly her from the US to Europe while she was morbidly obese; but then not home again.

I am not sure how the Airline can explain that they are not responsible at some level for that.

Incorrect. KLM flew her to Poland, and Delta was supposed to fly her back. While they're in the same alliance, they're not the same airline, and may have different rules, regulations, and requirements.
 
User avatar
135mech
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:56 pm

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 86):
Yep...if someone's health can deteriorate so quickly and result in death, there is no way said person should be away from their primary physician, especially 4000 miles away.

There is no personal responsibility with this couple and it's a microcosm of today's society in the United States...

AMEN!!! Blame everyone else and everything else for your problems! It's sad but it is exactly what society is all about now, it's truly disgraceful!

Take care of yourself and be accountable for your actions or inactions!

Regards,
135mech
135Mech
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:24 pm

It's funny that she ended up in Hungary of all places! lol
 
LFutia
Topic Author
Posts: 3159
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:04 am

RE: Too Fat To Fly, Passenger Kicked Off 3 Flights

Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 83):
And that was before she gained weight and size during her trip. I still haven't read how much weight she actually gained there.

Yes I'm curious as well to know how much she gained, but put it this way atleast now shes not suffering anymore.

Leo/ORD
Leo/ORD

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