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anstar
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:13 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 47):
How would this impact "the other Virgins"?

Well Delta already have a Joint Venture with Virgin Australia across the pacific.
 
flybry
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:28 am

Wasn't it not that long ago there were rumors DL, AF/KLM were in talks with Jet Airways of India to purchase a stake in that airline, bring it into SkyTeam and have it join their ATI across the atlantic?
 
qf002
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:36 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 47):
How would this impact "the other Virgins"?

Not at all. Totally different companies with separate entries in SRB's protfolio, and no cross investment. There isn't really much overlap anyway -- VA has their complex range of partnerships with NZ/EY/SQ/DL and VX is pretty small scale internationally.
 
TeamintheSky
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:43 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 49):

Heres a thing though, DL apparently say they want to buy the 49% from SQ but VS retains 51% which it will retain as SRB will not give up control of VS IMHO. Whats to say that VS says well done for buying SQs stake DL but actually we have already made a decision....we are joining Star. THey cannot force VS to do what they want to do, its all going to be interesting for sure.

I am fairly positive that if DL were to purchase this stake, they would already have agreements in place for AF/KL to take a 2-3% stake as well with the understanding of joining SkyTeam and the DL/AF/KL/AZ joint venture.

Now, will SRB buy this? It really comes down to ego over business sense. To have a strong US connecting partner along with an alliance that is strong in China could be very beneficial.

However, Ridgeway did just do an interview where he lauded Star's praises. It could have been a ploy to dissuad SkyTeam as I believe VS has always been more interested in Star, but it does not seem to have detered Delta.

While I think this deal is a long way from being sealed and still rather unlikely, would anyone care to speculate what would happen at Heathrow? Would VS move over to Terminal 4 and Terminal 4 only be for SkyTeam carriers? Or would DL/AF/KL relocate?
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG, AA, JL, W6
 
delta2ual
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 49):
Heres a thing though, DL apparently say they want to buy the 49% from SQ but VS retains 51% which it will retain as SRB will not give up control of VS IMHO. Whats to say that VS says well done for buying SQs stake DL but actually we have already made a decision....we are joining Star. THey cannot force VS to do what they want to do, its all going to be interesting for sure.

I don't believe for a minute that DL would pour money into an airline unless they were guaranteed access to LHR and a SkyTeam membership. I'm sure SRB would be part of the discussions, otherwise it would be a complete waste of time and money. Is Virgin traded publicly? Do they have a BOD? If so, most agreements this large would include seats on the BOD.
OTOH, if UA was smart, they would buy the stake. I think Star + VS would really be competitive with BA/AA. But, we shall see.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
UAL777UK
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 53):
Now, will SRB buy this? It really comes down to ego over business sense.

Not many people have a bigger ego in the UK than SRB and as I have stated previously there is more chance of hell freezing over than SRB giving up control to a third party.

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 53):
However, Ridgeway did just do an interview where he lauded Star's praises.

And thats the route I fully expect VS to take..............to Star.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 54):
Is Virgin traded publicly?

Nope.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 54):
OTOH, if UA was smart, they would buy the stake.

They dont have to be smart, I think VS will join Star anyway, not least for the reason stated above and so what if SQ wants to sell their stake to whomever, whether that be DL or whoever, VS are in control of their own destiny here having a 51% controlling stake.
 
parapente
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:56 pm

Quote,
"Is Branson going to give up control of his pride and joy, VS? I dont think so. I dont think that 51% is going anywhere but remaining with Branson and the Virgin Group".

Wrong. The defining business legasy of R Branson is his "exit strategies".It does not matter whether it is his founding area - Music or his second love Airplanes. If the price is right he will sell. That is the one certaintly.

He is smart enough to know (plus the losses he is now racking up).That the time has come so sell to a bigger group. He will (I believe) sell part/ or indeed all of his own shareholding depending on the nature ofthe deal.

Reading W Walsh this morning - he now believes that 3rd runway for Heathrow will not happen. (That leaves Gatwick second runway a near cetainty).So Heathrow will become the First Tier airport hub and Gatwick the second. So the race will be on for the (first tier) Heathrow slots. This is a fantastic (only) way to get them - the biding will be strong.. Richard will not pass up on this chance of a lifetime.

He may well retain the leasure aspect - why not. But he will base it at Gatwick.

BTW Re Gatwick. It is I believe worth noting the presence there of Easy Jet. This presence with a 2nd runway could be expanded greatly. As such it (plus others) could provide the European "spokes" to the Gatwick "Hub". People try to ignore the success of New York's dual (not twin) independant hub split. It works there. It could so easily work for London. It's called (as in NY) -choice. Thus it will be good for everybody especially consumers.
 
davescj
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:10 pm

I think this deal is a long way from "certain." To say the least, it will draw massive interest of regulators on both sides of the Atlantic.

Virgin + ST makes much more sense, (no matter what share splits end up looking like).

A serious question (if DL/AF/KL) were to buy Virgin, would Virgin remain a separate company or be absorbed (effectively) into DL/AF/KL?

I do think that Virgin presents a very attractive target do to the LHR slots and the network that could be built up with a strong ST presence in LHR/LGW.

Second tier markets (MCO) could switch to a 757 for example if a JV were formed. One would have to look at Virgin's routes and decide what to keep and what can be reached some other way.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
hiflyer
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:14 pm

I am more inclined to think of spoiler as far as DL's move...didn't they make a run on VS before? Lay a bet they are tyring to usurp a deal that is brewing with other parties. SQ has sposedly had their piece up for years but never seemed to be serious.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 53):
I am fairly positive that if DL were to purchase this stake, they would already have agreements in place for AF/KL to take a 2-3% stake as well with the understanding of joining SkyTeam and the DL/AF/KL/AZ joint venture.
Quoting delta2ual (Reply 54):
I don't believe for a minute that DL would pour money into an airline unless they were guaranteed access to LHR and a SkyTeam membership. I'm sure SRB would be part of the discussions, otherwise it would be a complete waste of time and money.

   All airlines make mistakes, but DL/AF/KL would have to be pretty stupid to just go ahead and buy the 49% without making prior arrangements. Companies make wrong decisions all the time, but at least they are backed up by logic and rationality (most of the time)
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:28 pm

If you assume that SRB wants to stay in the airline business, you are assuming a LOT.

He wants to exit gracefully, with a full wallet and an intact ego. Show me a carrier within Star that is willing to pay a reasonable price for a controlling share in Virgin. The truth is that the list of buyers is going to be very short. It is likely to include Delta and perhaps a Middle East carrier or two. No one else cares because Virgin can provide little strategic value to most carriers.

For Delta, however, there is a lot of value in improving its position in the US-UK market, particularly the JFK-LHR route. If the past few years have taught us anything, it is that Delta has a plan that is focused on increasing is premium share in NYC.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 60):
He wants to exit gracefully, with a full wallet and an intact ego.

How does he get a full wallet when its SQ stake that is being sold not SRBs?
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 61):
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 60):
He wants to exit gracefully, with a full wallet and an intact ego.

How does he get a full wallet when its SQ stake that is being sold not SRBs?

I think he was talking about part or all of the remaining 51%, the part that needs to be purchased in part or in full in order to control VS with the other 49% chunk
 
Viscount724
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 29):
Even as an American, I think this statement is extremely naive. Even though the US is arguably the largest aviation market in the world,

Most forecasts indicate that China will take over from the U.S. as the largest airline market within the next 10 years or so.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:58 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 30):
Slots at any airport are meaningless unless they are leveraged to build a strong network. VS and DL, acting alone, are both unable to build the comprehensive network needed to compete effectively against their enlarged competitors who enjoy any combination of greater slots, immunized cooperation, and/or superior fleet/capacity flexibility. Neither carrier, for instance, could likely make a solid go of a Texas-London flight acting alone, but I'd be shocked if a DL/VS JV didn't add IAH-LHR services within 2-3 years.

I'll agree with you that, in time, we would see some substantial shifts in flying as cooperation with DL/AF/KL got underway. For example, I could easily see some of VS' capacity to lower-yield cities like MCO shifted to take over some of DL's existing hub-LHR frequencies. Delta, in turn, can explore opening up LHR service from additional US cities, or else can move to take over some of VS' lower yield flying with smaller aircraft to reduce capacity (and thus drive up yields). With AF/KL, VS gains partners with which it can codeshare to all sorts of cities worldwide, as CDG and AMS are logical onward connecting points to many world cities for the ex-UK traveler.

That's pretty much how I see it. However, why is there an assumption that DL taking a 49% stake in VS would lead to the VS network being decimated and DL taking the slots for its own use? Surely DL taking a 49% stake would be about getting leverage in the London-USA market, plus to strengthen SkyTeam in other areas.

LHR-BOS - Both VS and DL operate one flight a day. If thet linked up, then if I read the AA/BA ATI deal properly DL could apply for remedy slots and add its second BOS-LHR flight back, while VS could redeploy its aircraft/slot elsewhere with a full codeshare (and likely in time own ATI) with DL.

LHR-JFK - Both VS and DL operate 3xDaily on his route, so together they'd provide a 6xDaily service, which would be much more competitive to AA/BA on LHR-JFK, and the 5xDaily LHR-EWR service UA operates for a better (and more lucrative through corporate contracts) share of the London - New York market.

LHR-EWR - DL would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on VS.

LHR-IAD - DL would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on VS.

LHR-ORD - DL would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on VS.

LHR-MIA - DL would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on VS. I'm not sure if DL could apply to restart the nonstop using a BA/AA remedial slot now that US will operate MIA-CLT-LHR.

LHR-LAX - DL would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on VS.

LHR-SFO - DL would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on VS.

LHR-DTW - VS would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on DL, with onward connections through this DL hub.

LHR-MSP - VS would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on DL, with onward connections through this DL hub.

LHR-ATL - VS would be able to offer its frequent fliers access to a new route through codeshare on DL, with onward connections through this DL hub.

MCO that people have mentioned is a LGW route, so while DL would be able to offer nonstop service on a codeshare to London I very much doubt there would be any desire to add a LHR service. LAS would also be available to DL to offer nonstop London service (again to LGW) via a VS codeshare.

When I talk about codeshare, I fully expect that DL taking a 49% stake would be a first step to VS coming in on the AF/KL/DL ATI deal across the Atlantic, and providing SkyTeam with greater leverage in the London - USA market. SkyTeam would also benefit from the fact VS offers service to NRT, PVG, AND OLD: Hong Kong - Kai Tak International (HKG / VHHH) (closed), China - Hong Kong">HKG, DEL, BOM, LOS and JNB. VS would be able to build partnerships with SkyTeam partners to get access for it's frequent fliers (and corporate fliers) to new markets, e.g. in China through PVG with codesahres on MU; to ICN and access to new markets in Japan and Korea through codeshares with KE, etc, etc.

I know that VS has codeshares with various Star carriers at present, and that there is a great Anet belief that VS and Star are a match made in heaven, but would VS joining Star really be what fits best with the image that VS presents (little guy taking on the big corporate bullies)? VS trying to merge with/acquire BD was all about getting the leverage to stay a standalone carrier at LHR. That failed, and with the BA/ATI deal in place, the demise of BD and the fact Star is a strong second at LHR how can VS position itself to stay in the game and take on the two alliances? That's where a deal with DL (and AF/KL through the TATL ATI) allows VS to play the PR game it is so good at and build a business model that would enable VS to remain in the game as a longhaul "independent".

How would it do that? VS and DL are the weakest players in the TATL market against AA/BA and UA/AC. Linking up with DL gets access to more point-to-point markets out of London, while VS gets new destinations in the USA to offer its fliers through point-point flying and one-stop via DL hubs. VS would then be able to say that the US and EU authorities forced its hand by approving other deals, and it is linking up with DL to ensure that people flying to/from London can have real options and not be overcharged by the AA/BA and UA/AC duopoly, etc, etc.

Lets not forget that over the years VS has painted itself into a very tight corner. It had a decade to come up with a deal to merge with BD and failed. It has been vocal against a AA/BA tie-up fr over a decade but failed to come up with a strategy to compete when that tie-up was approved. VS joining Star? Willie Walsh would be laughing his socks off at the publicity he could fire at VS for linking up with Star at LHR, and he was the first CEO of BA (and now at IAG) who was prepared not to let VS spout its rhetoric without a comeback.

My final point is that for all I detest the VS/Sir Richard Branson style of "woe-is-me" publicity, I would like to see VS find a way to secure its future in the long term, and actually a tie-up with DL would be the way it could do that AND keep it's stance as the "consumer's friend" by allowing the smallest of the three alliances to up the game with oneworld and Star Alliance, which would be good for the UK consumer (and those from overseas who want to visit this country, even if only London).
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
NWADTWE16
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:14 pm

Branson may want to leave the industry..and ive not read anything stating their is any truth to that, but assuming it was i believe he to be a man of honor and passion. His airline is his major passion and whether he wants to be even more behind the scenes or not i dont believe , if at for not any other reason, for his honor that he would want to sell out and then allow his creation (a great one at that) to be dismantled and cease to exist...
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
boysteve
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:51 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
Nonetheless, I am not sure if putting millions into an airline with a somewhat questionable long-term strategic direction would be such a smart investment

Err, DL buying a stake in VS and making it part of the AF/KL/DL JV will give VS the long-term strategic direction that you talk about!

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 23):
In the core London-NY market the two carriers would be able to offer six flights a day, which gicen BA/AA are effectively running a LHR-JFK shuttle, and UA has a 5xDaily LHR-EWR service would be a key move. It would also strengthen massively SkyTeam in London

Well VS & DL operate 7 times daily JFK-LHR now, plus VS flights to EWR. Could VS pull out of EWR and transfer all flights to JFK giving VS/DL 9 flights per day? If so that WOULD be good competiton to BA/AA
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 61):
How does he get a full wallet when its SQ stake that is being sold not SRBs?

This...

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 62):
I think he was talking about part or all of the remaining 51%, the part that needs to be purchased in part or in full in order to control VS with the other 49% chunk
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:55 am

The Economist has weighed in...

Quote:
Since Singapore Airlines, a Star Alliance member, owns 49% of Virgin Atlantic, some think Star is Virgin’s most likely bedfellow. But Virgin’s route network overlaps with those of existing Star Alliance members in too many places: Virgin would clash with ANA on flights to Tokyo, with South African Airways on flights to Johannesburg, and with United-Continental to the US. It is hard to see where Virgin could complement Star’s existing operations, and in any case Singapore Airlines seems disillusioned by Virgin’s latest travails and may divest its shareholding.

Of the world’s two other alliances, oneworld is dominated by British Airways and is therefore not an option, so SkyTeam may be Virgin’s last hope. Two years ago, Sir Richard appointed Deutsche Bank to scrutinise a potential deal with AirFrance-KLM and Delta, SkyTeam’s chief members, but talks failed when the Virgin boss demanded a substantial annual fee for the licensing of the Virgin brand. This time, he may have no choice.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2012/12/virgin-atlantic
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:04 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 55):

I think your just think what you want to happen vs what will happen. If DL and AF push SRB the cash he will dump his shares faster than you can spell his name. If he isn't willing to sell....Delta wont buy into the airline.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 60):

This.
Delta isn't going to buy part of VS only to have it go into star and codeshare/JV with United. That is one of the more foolish things I have heard.
 
Gemuser
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting parapente (Reply 56):

Quote,
"Is Branson going to give up control of his pride and joy, VS? I dont think so. I dont think that 51% is going anywhere but remaining with Branson and the Virgin Group".

Wrong. The defining business legasy of R Branson is his "exit strategies".It does not matter whether it is his founding area - Music or his second love Airplanes. If the price is right he will sell. That is the one certaintly.

Exactly.
Meanwhile over on this side of the planet an SRB Virgin stake is also in play, which MAYBE related. SQ & EY both want to increase their stake in VBH (the actual listed company which ownes the actual airlines) to 20% each. There is an article in today's Sydney Morning Herald on it. SRB still holds 23+% of VBH. A deal where SRB, SQ, DL & other airlines realign their holding with SQ out of VS and into VBH, DL 49% of VS and maybe with AF/KL with 2% to 51% of VS and SRB sitting on several billion dollars and a stake in VS & VBH, or even more billions and no airline stake.
As Parapente says SRB is about exit strategies and this could be a beauty!

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
UAL777UK
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:55 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 69):
If he isn't willing to sell....Delta wont buy into the airline.

And thats why i dont think this deal will get off the ground, because SRB will not sell his share.....has he ever said anywhere that he would???
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:05 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 71):
And thats why i dont think this deal will get off the ground, because SRB will not sell his share.....has he ever said anywhere that he would???

two things
1) His airline keeps posting losses then he will sell or watch it die and sell the assets
2) I have yet to meet a human that can not be bought.

has he been shopping his stake? No, but he has hired someone to look into DL and AF/KL. That shows me he is at least fairly willing to at least sit down and talk.

"Two years ago, Sir Richard appointed Deutsche Bank to scrutinise a potential deal with AirFrance-KLM and Delta, SkyTeam’s chief members, but talks failed when the Virgin boss demanded a substantial annual fee for the licensing of the Virgin brand."
This tells me he is at least willing to sit down and talk. The more losses he takes the lower his price will be.
 
AF185
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:26 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 72):

"Two years ago, Sir Richard appointed Deutsche Bank to scrutinise a potential deal with AirFrance-KLM and Delta, SkyTeam’s chief members, but talks failed when the Virgin boss demanded a substantial annual fee for the licensing of the Virgin brand."
This tells me he is at least willing to sit down and talk. The more losses he takes the lower his price will be.

I agree, it seems SRB is slowly trying to change the business model of his airline. In the last months:
-> a study of a potential deal with AF-KL + Delta (through Deutsche Bank) was initiated
-> SRB mentionned VS would soon select and join a global alliance
-> the resumption of the BOM route with more compatible USA bound transfers is an intempt to make their LHR operations more hub oriented

IMO, all these points show an intent of shifting from a pure P2P strategy to a more globalized and "inter-connected" airline. Probably against SRB's hope to keep his original business model, but the economic reality will win..
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting AF185 (Reply 73):

and the attempt at some type of a short haul network....
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:28 pm

Would be interested in knowing how Delta plan to finace the buyout,if they do go ahead.
Are they cash rich at the moment,probably not they're an airline.
Go to the banks? Sell something?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 75):
Would be interested in knowing how Delta plan to finace the buyout,if they do go ahead.
Are they cash rich at the moment,probably not they're an airline.
Go to the banks? Sell something?

$5.1 Billion in unrestricted liquidity as of the end of September 2012.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1742
 
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coronado
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:06 pm

Delta has brought their debt level down from $17bn to about $11bn USD at present over the past 3-4 years, is sitting on unrestricted liquidity (cash and cash equivalents including committed undrawn credit lines) in excess of US$5.1bn, and more importantly is generating profits, in the most recent quarter achieving effectively a $1bn net profit i(in a 3 month period!) on a GAAP basis. I suspect they are on track for a pretty good 4th quarter. October 2012 reflected a 5.5% increase in PRASM in spite of Hurricane Sandy and we should get some initial indications of November performance in the next coupple days. The Trainer refinery could be very positive this quarter. It remained in continuous operation during hurricane Sandy and the jet fuel crack spread seems higher than ever, so Delta should really benefit from lower fuel costs than competitors. I think they could just write a check!

Late breaking: Delta today announced Nov 2012 preliminary results, with a 2.5% increase in PRASM. However they state that Sandy slowed the ramp up of trainer so jet fuel prices averaged about 3.20-3.25/gal. Sandy should cut profits by about 25mm in Nov. Completion factor was 99.6% and on time percentage was 90.5%. They allude to continued corporate revenue gains for accounting for the increase in PRASM as well as good Thanskgiving holiday results. For more details: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1793

[Edited 2012-12-04 07:16:27]
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 76):
Quoting coronado (Reply 77):

That is really very impressive numbers.Well done Delta   
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:03 pm

Sir Richard Branson said he was willing to sell down his stake in Virgin Atlantic nearly 18 months ago.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...rike-action-over-pay-ceo-says.html

Quote:
Richard Branson said he’s prepared to reduce his stake in Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. to aid the U.K. carrier’s search for an alliance partner.

Branson, who owns 51 percent of Virgin Atlantic stock, said he’ll always be “a major shareholder” in the Crawley, England- based company and that his preferred option is for Singapore Airlines Ltd. to reduce its 49 percent holding.

“If I had to sell a few shares and get the right alliance for Virgin Atlantic I think I would,” the entrepreneur said today in an interview in Miami. “But it’s more likely that we’d get Singapore Airlines to sell a few of their shares and that would be the way we would sort it out going forward.”

Whether he is prepared to let Delta and Air-France KLM collectively gain control (as suggested by the Financial Times today) is another matter. There must be some substance behind the Sunday Times story. The Financial Times and other news sources seem confident there is.
 
TeamintheSky
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:18 am

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:42 pm

I wonder if this will quietly die like everything else has with Virgin (joining an alliance, prior Delta deal) or if we will hear something more on this shortly.

As a SkyTeam flyer based in London, I would personally love it
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG, AA, JL, W6
 
cloudboy
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:55 am

I am interested in hearing Virgin's response. According to what I have read anyways, this is Delta making a move, not so much Virgin seeking.

As a Us Airways flyer, I would rather keep them as a partner. DL already has enough strong European partners and London flights.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 43):
No. VS is replacing the A340 for a reason

I was making a joke   
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
dlramp4life
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:07 am

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 81):
DL already has enough strong European partners and London flights.

True about the Europe Partners with KL and AF but I think DL or Skyteam in this matter whats more service to LHR which is a One World fortress and star alliance as a good amount of traffic at the airport as well.

I think AF and KL should look into adding VA into the KLAF group.

DL will just redeem the benefits of the codesharing.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5400
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 75):

Not only does Delta have ~5B they can spend....for whatever reason airlines always seem to be able to find money for stuff like this. (same way another US airlines can order a crap ton of planes then go into BK months later....)

Some fool is always ready to write a check for airlines.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 82):

I figured but you just never know with some of these people.
 
wolfpacker
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 2:35 am

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:52 pm

Here is an article, opinion?, on the talks.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/05/virgin-delta-airlines
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 40):
I really hope this is a reality. Personally I think that the entire Virgin brand would be a great addition to SkyTeam. VS and VA. Now as for VX, they do not really have anything to offer except that they are a fun airline with the best product out there in my opinion but are hemorrhaging money. With the Virgin Group and if EY would join, SkyTeam would really be a nice contender.

If this were the case, would DL be able to interline their connections at both LAX and HNL? Or am I thinking about the wrong airline.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 86):
If this were the case, would DL be able to interline their connections at both LAX and HNL? Or am I thinking about the wrong airline.

I don't think any of the Virgin airlines fly to HNL.
 
United1
Posts: 4243
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 84):
Not only does Delta have ~5B they can spend

Just to clarify something on DLs cash position they have around 3.2 billion in cash/short term investments the rest is a 1.9 billion dollar line of credit that they can tap if they need it. While they have more then enough liquidity to purchase 49% of VS they can't simply spend 5.1 billion or even half that and remain in business. Every company has a certain level of liquidity that they have to have on hand simply for day to day operations and to stay in compliance with their credit card and loan covenants. Using a few educated guesses that's somewhere between 1.5 and 2 billion dollars for an airline the size of DL (and UA for that matter)...

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 87):
I don't think any of the Virgin airlines fly to HNL.

They don't...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:06 am

That CNN fortune article is the worst article I have ever read. Here is a quote;

"And if you think Sir Richard Branson is going to let Delta passengers from Chattanooga into his exclusive "clubhouse" lounge in Heathrow's Terminal 3, you better think again. Not even first class passengers on Singapore Airlines can gain entry."

Why on earth would SQ pax in LHR T3 want to use VS's lounge when they can use SQ's!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never ever heard such diarroegh from a supposedly intelligent source. I will now view anything with CNN attached to it as utter shit.
 
deltaflyertoo
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 89):
That CNN fortune article is the worst article I have ever read

I agree! Read it this morning and was shocked. In addition to what you quote is it me or WHERE on this green planet did Branson or anyone at Virgin suggest that they would hand over their prized Heathrow slots to Delta in such a deal. I was shocked CNN so nonchalantly assumes this and suggests this in the article as well as inneuendo that DL is seeking 100%. i
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 90):
I agree! Read it this morning and was shocked. In addition to what you quote is it me or WHERE on this green planet did Branson or anyone at Virgin suggest that they would hand over their prized Heathrow slots to Delta in such a deal. I was shocked CNN so nonchalantly assumes this and suggests this in the article as well as inneuendo that DL is seeking 100%.

Well, if DL gets the 49% from SQ and AF/KL get 2-3% from Virgin, would they not be in a controlling position and could get whatever slots they wanted?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
deltaflyertoo
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:58 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 91):

Well, if DL gets the 49% from SQ and AF/KL get 2-3% from Virgin, would they not be in a controlling position and could get whatever slots they wanted?

Is Branson really thinking about giving up his control?
 
notdownnlocked
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:59 am

My hope is that VS joins Skyteam and codeshares with DL and perhaps tries to get into the JV with AF/KL/DL/AZ. If DL and it's Atlantacentric Atlantans get hold of VS you will see 60 flights daily from ATL-LHR all the while proclaiming that "We can get you from LHR/India/any VS city to anywhere in the USA via our convienient hub in ATL." That would include the dismantling and stripping VS of its assets. LHR to DL would become the equivalent of MEM/CVG/MCO/DFW and other hubs with frequent flights to ATL. Of course this would only happen if DL/AF was able to rid VS of Branson.
 
delimit
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:08 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:08 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 33):
Whose kidding who here. Hell will freeze over before SRB gives up his controlling stake in VS. DL can buy 49% if they want but dictating the future of VS is not going to be down to then. VS is very much SRB baby.

Then no deal will happen. I mean, do you really think DL is silly enough to buy that 49% without acquiring some input into the direction of VS?
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:11 am

Quoting notdownnlocked (Reply 93):
LHR to DL would become the equivalent of MEM/CVG/MCO/DFW and other hubs with frequent flights to ATL.

Are you serious?? The reason that DL wants this is for the LHR slots. Why would they dismantle the prime reason that they wanted it in the first place?  


BTW, the reason they "dismantled" the DFW hub wasn't because of the ATL hub. Financially, things weren't going to well for us and a hub had to go. It was between us in SLC and DFW and SLC won out, mostly because of its efficiency and that fact that DFW had the burden of having to compete with AA.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
notdownnlocked
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:27 am

Of course DL wants LHR slots so they can run who knows how many gazillion flights from ATL to LHR. I could easily see LHR-LAX/SFO/MIA/and many others discontinued in favor of a connection over ATL. Perhaps a slot or two would be given to JFK or DTW. How long did MIA-LHR and the second BOS-LHR flight last? LHR-MIA was dropped ASAP so they could start a second ATL-LHR and just a few weeks ago slots were acquired from someone else to start a 3rd ATL-LHR. With DL it's all about ATL and anything else is secondary. Sir Richard please hold on to your airline!!! The thread title should read: DL poised to swoop on Virgin's LHR slots.

[Edited 2012-12-05 17:29:39]
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting notdownnlocked (Reply 96):
just a few weeks ago slots were acquired from someone else to start a 3rd ATL-LHR.

Possibly they were allowed to change one of the LGW flights to a LHR slot from ATL.


Apparently, you don't like DL and/or ATL. We get that. DL has almost always been ATLcentric and probably always be that way. Those of us that worked in the outstations knew that and accepted it. It has worked for DL and I see no reason for it to change. As far as your other speculations, I don't see much validity in them. DL is NOT going to spend that much money, just to dismantle the "jewel in the crown", so to speak. They WANT LHR and they want those LHR slots, just to try and stay competitive with the other carriers that have more at LHR.

Unless I'm mistaken, they couldn't just turn around and use the MIA-LHR slot for ATL-LHR, instead. I believe the slot had to go back to AA/BA......same with BOS-LHR.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1159
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting notdownnlocked (Reply 96):

Of course DL wants LHR slots so they can run who knows how many gazillion flights from ATL to LHR. I could easily see LHR-LAX/SFO/MIA/and many others discontinued in favor of a connection over ATL.

DL does not fly LHR-LAX/SFO/MIA, so the question of discontinuing them does not exist.
And if you intend to say that the VS service from LHR to LAX will be discontinued, that is not going to happen either. There is enough traffic to fly nonstop LHR-LAX
 
PIEAvantiP180
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:04 am

RE: DL Poised To Swoop On Virgin Atlantic.

Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:49 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 97):

  

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 98):

  

Quoting notdownnlocked (Reply 96):

The reason DL wants to partner up with Virgin Atlantic is that they them selves don't serve those markets. I'm sure they are hoping to include VA to the Transatlantic JV with AF/KL/AZ so they can finally say they offer MIA, LAX, SFO, IAD, ORD, EWR on VA, 6x JFK, 2x BOS on both combined carriers and MSP, DTW, ATL on DL, to their clients and corporate account agents and negotiators so they can win more corporate traffic.

They got their 3rd daily ATL-LHR slot from the split slot they were using all along. 4days a week it was being used for a 3rd daily ATL-LHR and the other 3 days it was being used for a second DTW-LHR flight. The MIA-LHR slot went back to AA/BA since that slot was not transferable, same with the second BOS-LHR slot. Now if they are able to buy the 49% of VA and implement a JV i will bet the second BOS-LHR flight will resume once they have enough 757 with flat beds in J and i'm sure they will find a slot to finally start SEA-LHR as well.

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