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coolfish1103
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China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:10 am

China Airlines to obtain 6 77Ws from Boeing

It has been announced today that a decision was made yesterday (2012/12/06) to obtain 6 Boeing 777-300ERs from Boeing. It is expected that media will follow up with this information sometimes this week. No other information is given from the TWSE MOPS site.

Previously there have been articles citing that China Airlines will receive the 777-300ERs from 2015.

--

No idea where they are deploying the 77Ws. It seems like they are good options to replace all long haul destinations currently served by 343s (any maybe start a couple), but isn't that what 359 is originally purchased for?

There are also no information on seat maps or anything related to the aircraft.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:18 am

Is it a 1-for-1 for the 345s or the 744s? Does CI plan to retire either planes?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
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Polot
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
Is it a 1-for-1 for the 345s or the 744s? Does CI plan to retire either planes?

They don't have any A345s, just A343s. When are they suppose to get their A359s?
 
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BreninTW
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:51 am

It would be a 1:1 replacement for the A343 as CI has six in its fleet, according to http://www.china-airlines.com/en/about/about.htm

However, I'm hearing the order is to replace some of the (older?) 744.
 
aviasian
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:19 am

Isn't it interesting that a version of the B777 is the replacement for an airplane that was chosen over the B777 in the first place?

KC Sim
 
kaitak
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:33 am

Quoting aviasian (Reply 4):
Isn't it interesting that a version of the B777 is the replacement for an airplane that was chosen over the B777 in the first place?

Yes; just shows that they'd have saved themselves a lot of trouble if they chose 777s in the first place; mind you, political considerations may have played a part in the initial decision.

Another interesting thing is that this makes CI one of those carriers which has ordered almost every model of twin aisle twin:

767 - operated two in the mid '80s
A300 - long standing operator of the -600 and B4 that, the B4
A330 - currently in fleet - major operator (one just delivered yesterday, in fact - B18359!)
A350 - several on order
777 - now on order
787 - not yet on order, but who'd bet against it?!

I guess their next big decision will be between the Neo and the Max?

[Edited 2012-12-06 22:43:55]
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:40 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 3):
However, I'm hearing the order is to replace some of the (older?) 744.

Yes, that is supposed to be the case. I think another possible 748i customer choses 77W.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:43 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 6):
I think another possible 748i customer choses 77W.

From what I've been hearing over the last two years or so, the 748i has never been on the table.
 
Tommy525
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:44 am

I wonder if they did some sort of deal where Boeing takes the A343 off their hands in return. IF this is to replace the A343 then theres still a chance that China Airlines may still order the 748 ? Or the A380.

Understand the A380 is on its way to Taiwan again in the near future to try to get Ci and EVA interested in the big jumbo.

Id like to see Ci order many of the 748 . I think Ci could operate them profitably (provided the 748 can make a case for itself on paper) .

EVA seems content to stay with the 77W and doesnt seem to be putting out feelers for the 787 or the A380 or the 748i

Ci may be planning for the A359 its ordered (dont quite remember how many they have ordered) to replace some of the 744 it has. I thought they were meant to replace the A343 as well?

Actually I think Ci could operate a few A380 on trunk routes to the USA. A few 77W and A359 on its USA and Europe runs and the 748 on Intra Asia as well as USA and Europe (jack of all trades it could be) runs.

It could in theory operate all those types (not sure if this would actually make the most sense but it would give them route loading flexibility).

Or is something afoot and Ci is looking to get out of the order for its A359 as those seem still quite far off? Boeing may be offering them something to do so?

[Edited 2012-12-06 22:54:46]
 
coolfish1103
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:51 am

Quoting aviasian (Reply 4):
Isn't it interesting that a version of the B777 is the replacement for an airplane that was chosen over the B777 in the first place?

I think the delay of the 359 is one of the reasons why 777 has been acquired, though not getting the 777 in the first place was probably not a right decision if looking back now. By getting only 6 aircraft means it's not really a 744 replacement. It might be used to replace the 6 oldest 744s by the time 359 rolls in, but the other 7 744s with First are still up in the air for grabs.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
Yes; just shows that they'd have saved themselves a lot of trouble if they chose 777s in the first place; mind you, political considerations may have played a part in the initial decision.

Political decision maybe, but probably not so much for this particular order.

Quoting Polot (Reply 2):
When are they suppose to get their A359s?

Starting from 2015, but has been delayed. Probably 2016 or 2017 now?

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
Does CI plan to retire either planes?

359 is suppose to replace 343, but it seems like the 777 purchased now may be replacing the 343 on long haul.

Since they are still short on aircraft and fuel saving on short haul isn't so apparent, 343 may be used in some tourist destinations in regional areas until they don't need them anymore.

Long haul destinations currently served by 343:

- Bangkok - Amsterdam (343 from JAN13)
- Frankfurt (744 from MAR13)
- Vancouver
- Vienna
 
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foppishbum
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:14 am

I hope they fly the 77W to LAX and JFK...maybe even making TPE to JFK a direct flight like BR instead of stopping at KIX. That will free up a few 744 for European routes and YVR to replace 343.
TPE X LAX X NYC :airplane:
 
coolfish1103
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:52 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 7):
From what I've been hearing over the last two years or so, the 748i has never been on the table.

That's what happened to the 77W years ago, and now they have acquired the 77W...

I wouldn't say never ever now with these weird decisions made lol

Quoting foppishbum (Reply 10):
I hope they fly the 77W to LAX and JFK...maybe even making TPE to JFK a direct flight like BR instead of stopping at KIX. That will free up a few 744 for European routes and YVR to replace 343.

People who fly that flight have heard the agents say KIX-JFK v.v. load is doing well but killing TPE-JFK v.v. because of ticket distribution and the arrival/departure time. Maybe once 77W is here the old late afternoon direct flight to JFK will return w/o a stop at ANC.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:10 pm

More likely the 77W is replacing part of the 744 fleet. When the A359 order was announced that was said to replace the A343/A333 on longer routes. Makes no sense to put a 77W on a A343 route where they have been downgauging from 744s eg YVR and cutting frequency. If it were a true A343 replacement they would get the 772ER or 77L. Which they didn't get as they wanted no Etops restrictions over a decade ago to operate TPE-JFK non stop.
CI CEO said in last year the 77W would work for them but didn't know if they would buy or lease.
Could be just an interim plan to retire the oldest 744s till they decide on a proper replacement ? 748i, or start of a big rollover from 744 to 77W a la BR.

The political impediments to CI making a big Boeing buy in recent years have disappeared. The first AH64E Apaches for the ROCA are already delivered for training in the US. ROC MND/MOFA was major league p..... at Boeing during runup to the actual contract award due to Boeings brown nosing to Beijing and refusing to discuss the contract when Bell and Sikorsky were tripping over themselves to send all the work to Taiwan to get the contract.
 
coolfish1103
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 12):
More likely the 77W is replacing part of the 744 fleet. When the A359 order was announced that was said to replace the A343/A333 on longer routes. Makes no sense to put a 77W on a A343 route where they have been downgauging from 744s eg YVR and cutting frequency. If it were a true A343 replacement they would get the 772ER or 77L.

With the price they are charging at Vancouver, it's not surprised they have to down gauge the capacity. It's not like CI has extra aircraft floating around needing to fly somewhere. All those aircrafts are in China.

Well, the 359s are delayed, so I believe it will be a temporary replacements of the 343s by letting the 343s get off the bleeding long haul route. And yes, it will allow CI to operate TPE-JFK v.v. non-stop. After 359s are in, they can replace those 77Ws if those destination loads do not warrant 77Ws, then the 77Ws can go ahead and replace the 6 744s with only Business Class if they don't need to expand on new routes.

What remains to be speculated is the 7x 744s with First Class. What is CI replacing them with? Doesn't look like 77Ws to me with only 6 purchased and no further options.

[Edited 2012-12-07 05:48:58]
 
CXB77L
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting coolfish1103 (Thread starter):
It has been announced today that a decision was made yesterday (2012/12/06) to obtain 6 Boeing 777-300ERs from Boeing.

Congratulations to Boeing and CI. I'm delighted to see that there is yet another new operator of the 777!

[Edited 2012-12-07 06:19:58]
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:52 pm

Quoting coolfish1103 (Reply 9):
359 is suppose to replace 343, but it seems like the 777 purchased now may be replacing the 343 on long haul.

Seems quite logical to me. I think the 77W will temporarily replace the A343 on longhaul routes until the A359 becomes available. Once they have A359's the 77W's will move to current 744 routes.
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Tommy525
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:06 pm

Airbus is probably hoping the remaining 7x 744 will be replaced by the A380. But sneaky Boeing may still offer up a deal that you cant refuse to Ci for the 748.

Does CI have enough loads for the A380 is what Boeing will ask and ask and ask again.
 
JAL
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:09 pm

Wow! This is a surprise! They seemed to be leaning towards Airbus.

Has this news been confirmed?
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting coolfish1103 (Reply 13):
Well, the 359s are delayed, so I believe it will be a temporary replacements of the 343s by letting the 343s get off the bleeding long haul route

Per JP fleets, initial delivery for A359 was first in Oct '15 then next 4 in 2016. I doubt there will be more than a one year slip in deliveries but who knows for sure.
The 77W burns 8100kg/hr fuel, vs A343/772 6900kg and A333 6000kg (and 744 11100kg)- figures from Zeke per CX flight crew calculations. Unless you can fill that 77W you;re wasting money sending it on a A343 route burning that fuel let alone the higher landing charges and the capital cost of the new plane. Only reason to use the A343 on regional is to fill in gaps where A333 not available, increase utilization A343 during short periods before the next long haul rotation, increase crew hours especially landings (why SQ sent the A345 to CGK) - believe CI still roster A343 crew separate from A333.

Quoting coolfish1103 (Reply 13):
What remains to be speculated is the 7x 744s with First Class. What is CI replacing them with? Doesn't look like 77Ws to me with only 6 purchased and no further options.

Could be an initial order only, may even be a lease.
I'll bet 747-8 because of the following:

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 16):
But sneaky Boeing may still offer up a deal that you cant refuse to Ci for the 748.

Like a great price on 747-8Fs (to replace their 21 744Fs )and also on 738Maxs!
 
coolfish1103
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 16):
Airbus is probably hoping the remaining 7x 744 will be replaced by the A380. But sneaky Boeing may still offer up a deal that you cant refuse to Ci for the 748.

Does CI have enough loads for the A380 is what Boeing will ask and ask and ask again.

Newest information indicates more 77W may be acquired... not good news for Airbus.

Not many destinations warrant 388,regional maybe Beijing, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Shenzhen due to limited frequencies, and long haul Tokyo - Honolulu, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Quoting JAL (Reply 17):
Has this news been confirmed?

Yes.

To update everyone with the newest information acquired:

1. Taipei Times has indicated that the 77W is for 343 replacement (kind of surprising) and the 359 Airbus promised has been delayed to deliver from 2016.
- http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2012/12/08/2003549604

2. China Airlines originally had plans to purchase 10 77W, but only 6 has been approved for now.
- To be delivered from 2014.
- http://tw.news.yahoo.com/買新機...進6架b777-300er-021559409.html
- http://tw.news.yahoo.com/華航購77...董事會先准6架-095234868.html
- http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rder-six-boeing-777-300ers-379908/

3. EVA Air has added 7 additional 77W orders in May 2012.
- To be delivered from 2014.

4. China Airlines may restart Honolulu direct flight, resuming seasonal charters in February for Chinese New Year.
- Mainly due to VISA exempt
- 3 flights using 343
- http://tw.news.yahoo.com/夏威夷...節包機大熱門-163836476.html

The rest have links in mandarin so I won't bother linking them - Updated with links

[Edited 2012-12-07 09:16:41]
 
mffoda
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 18):
The rest have links in mandarin so I won't bother linking them.

Some of us have Google Chrome translate...

I would like to see the other links, if its not too much trouble. Thx
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
coolfish1103
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 20):
Some of us have Google Chrome translate...

I would like to see the other links, if its not too much trouble. Thx

I have attached the links to the original post.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 18):
Per JP fleets, initial delivery for A359 was first in Oct '15 then next 4 in 2016. I doubt there will be more than a one year slip in deliveries but who knows for sure.

The 77W burns 8100kg/hr fuel, vs A343/772 6900kg and A333 6000kg (and 744 11100kg)- figures from Zeke per CX flight crew calculations. Unless you can fill that 77W you;re wasting money sending it on a A343 route burning that fuel let alone the higher landing charges and the capital cost of the new plane. Only reason to use the A343 on regional is to fill in gaps where A333 not available, increase utilization A343 during short periods before the next long haul rotation, increase crew hours especially landings (why SQ sent the A345 to CGK) - believe CI still roster A343 crew separate from A333.

CI stated earliest delivery from 2016 in one of the articles listed above (in mandarin).

CI can fill 77W in all those destinations except maybe Vienna. BKK-AMS v.v. has long being a 744 destination and downgrading it to 343 from January mainly because they don't have another aircraft that can fly this route. 77W might be well suited. For Vancouver, they just need to lower their fare down a bit and increase flights to Delhi. They use to do business on DEL-YVR via TPE but ended due to lack of aircraft from better profit destinations in China and Japan. TPE-VIE v.v. might have some problems but from time to time 744 is deployed there due to demands.

I fully expect TPE-JFK v.v. and TPE-SEA v.v. to be reinstated if there are enough 77Ws. Maybe even TPE-HNL v.v., TPE-IAH v.v. or TPE-ORD v.v., TPE-LHR v.v. far fetched.

When retiring 343 from long haul scheduled destinations, I think they will be used in regional destinations where 333 is too big and on charter flights where they know they won't lose money cause the travel agencies are taking care of the seats. I think 343s will be gone by latest 2020, whether long or short haul.
 
cosmofly
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 16):
Airbus is probably hoping the remaining 7x 744 will be replaced by the A380. But sneaky Boeing may still offer up a deal that you cant refuse to Ci for the 748.

Will B offer CI 77Ws plus options for 748i as a package   

A package deal may allow B to play with the 748i pricing without affecting the favorable pricing promised to launch customers. This is an opportunity to cover up a fire sale to sustain the 747 rate increase.  
 
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Stitch
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:04 pm

Boeing can't "fire sale" the price of the 747-8 without impacting the pricing of the 777-300ER.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:12 pm

They should have a premium economy product or at least a United type E+ on their long haul and a true flat bed J.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:19 pm

Per the Fg article
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rder-six-boeing-777-300ers-379908/

I could see the 77W fulfilling an near term requirement and then A35Js coming later in the decade. Maybe like some other carriers they are turning away from VLA/747 size.

Anyone know if the PE product on the two orphan VS A330s were well received when in CI service? Or did they sell those seats as J?
 
justinlee
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
Another interesting thing is that this makes CI one of those carriers which has ordered almost every model of twin aisle twin:

It's interesting that CI keeps a nearly all wide body fleet with 41 wide bodies and 10 narrow bodies. Their livery is awesome because every plum flower on the tail is hand painted!
 
coolfish1103
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting justinlee (Reply 26):
It's interesting that CI keeps a nearly all wide body fleet with 41 wide bodies and 10 narrow bodies. Their livery is awesome because every plum flower on the tail is hand painted!

It's becoming same plastic plum flower now.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 25):
Anyone know if the PE product on the two orphan VS A330s were well received when in CI service? Or did they sell those seats as J?

People liked the lighting and colors on board VS 333 but the seats are more like... my sister was on board it once to Bali and she feels that the Premium Economy seats are not very different on a short haul except for a foot rest and 5 extra inch.

I hope they don't take the Premium Economy route, though.

Another article says it's for the 744 replacements.
- http://udn.com/NEWS/FINANCE/FIN1/7551918.shtml#ixzz2EPmT9slR

Each article has something incorrect and some new info.

[Edited 2012-12-07 17:48:46]
 
na
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:45 am

Optimism and boldness looks different. Seems they are they preparing for a shrining market. Beancounters appeal before passenger comfort, sign of the times. They certainly dont bother to offer the passenger something else others are having for a long time, preferring to walk the beaten track. Cant they fill A380s or 748?, or will they order VLA replacements for their main routes later?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
Boeing can't "fire sale" the price of the 747-8 without impacting the pricing of the 777-300ER.

Why? Surely they can say to a client "you can have 20% off the 748I price, but just 5% off the 77W" Such deals happen every day in car sale.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:10 am

Quoting aviasian (Reply 4):
Isn't it interesting that a version of the B777 is the replacement for an airplane that was chosen over the B777 in the first place?

KC Sim

Just like SIA replacing B777s with A333s.

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 3):

It would be a 1:1 replacement for the A343 as CI has six in its fleet, according to http://www.china-airlines.com/en/abo...t.htm

But the B77W is quite a bit bigger than the A343. IT's more than a 1:1 replacement.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:27 am

Quoting na (Reply 28):
Beancounters appeal before passenger comfort, sign of the times. They certainly dont bother to offer the passenger something else others are having for a long time, preferring to walk the beaten track. Cant they fill A380s or 748?, or will they order VLA replacements for their main routes later?

Every airline doesnt need VLA's. If they dont see they need for the A380 or 748 then why should they order them? We dont even know how they are going to configure their 77Ws so talking about comfort for passengers is pretty irrelevant at this stage. You just need to face the fact that the 77W, fits their needs at this point and for a fact its a decent replacement for their 744s. If it didnt fit their needs they wouldnt order them at all...
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neutrino
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting coolfish1103 (Reply 27):
Quoting justinlee (Reply 26):
It's interesting that CI keeps a nearly all wide body fleet with 41 wide bodies and 10 narrow bodies. Their livery is awesome because every plum flower on the tail is hand painted!

It's becoming same plastic plum flower now.

To nitpick; 梅花,méihua (Prunus mume) is usually translated as plum blossom.
It's the national flower of Taiwan.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
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Stitch
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
Boeing can't "fire sale" the price of the 747-8 without impacting the pricing of the 777-300ER.
Quoting na (Reply 28):
Why? Surely they can say to a client "you can have 20% off the 748I price, but just 5% off the 77W" Such deals happen every day in car sale.

The 747-8 is a more capable airframe than the 777-300ER. If Boeing offered the 747-8 for a lower transaction price than the 777-300ER, customers would question why they had to pay more for the less-capable frame.


777-300ER margins should be very strong at the moment, so if airlines bought 747-8s at weaker margins, that costs Boeing money. And with the 747-8 is in a forward-loss position in terms of it's Program Accounting, Boeing needs to sell the 747-8 for the strongest margin they can, so offering deeper discounts is counter-productive.
 
cosmofly
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
If Boeing offered the 747-8 for a lower transaction price than the 777-300ER, customers would question why they had to pay more for the less-capable frame.

Boeing cannot discount the price of 748 below launch customers'. The idea is to jack up 748i price and low ball 77W price as a package.

As an illustration, discount $30m on the 77W price, use said $30m as down payment for 748i which is not discounted. If customer exercises 748i option, they get a great deal on 77W. If not, they lose their down payment and effectively pay for the 77W without said $30m discount.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:07 pm

IF the 77ws are to replace the 744s and IF they are specifically to replace the 2 class JY ones (which they just spent 10 million a piece refurbishing), its interesting that the 6 two class birds B 18201/1/3/5, 18251, N168CL were delivered in 97, 97, 97, 97, 2000, 99. While the 3 newly refurbished 3 class birds (not the newest 4 GE powered ones they got in 04/05) were all delivered 98 (B18206/7/8) .
While their ages aren't that different you would think they would ditch the oldest first unless the oldest just went thru a D check. Anyone know which have been thru a D check or which are coming up to them first. Presumably the 97, 98 deliveries but its possible some younger birds are due sooner.


Which makes me think this could indeed be more a A343 replacement with the 77W (one of the reports linked says it will be a buy, sell , leaseback deal) being an interim A343 replacement as a 6-8 year lease till the A359 arrives and then being a part 744 replacement or even being let go at the end of the decade when A35Js are available as the 77Ws should be relatively easy to place with other airlines.

Unless CI is going out of the big freighter business. Possible when even CX heads are even suggesting they need to rethink the whole issue of running dedicated freighters. They need 747-8Fs, the 77L has the payload but not the volume they need as electronics is their main cargo. This would make a future 747-8I purchase more likely, you could see a minimum of 20 , possibly 30 747-8F/Is in the fleet if there is a straight 1:1 replacement (which there may not be - I can see a A330F in their future- right now its belly cargo or a whole 744F with nothing in between). By buying some time with a 77W lease, they deal with their immediate need, and wait to see how market changes will support a 747-8 sized plane later this decade.
 
anstar
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting coolfish1103 (Reply 27):
People liked the lighting and colors on board VS 333 but the seats are more like... my sister was on board it once to Bali and she feels that the Premium Economy seats are not very different on a short haul except for a foot rest and 5 extra inch.

The Premium Economy seats are much more comfortable (and noticeably eider) than the regular economy seats!
 
bmacleod
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 3):
However, I'm hearing the order is to replace some of the (older?) 744.

Quite disappointing if that is the case. I was really hoping CI would pick the 748i to replace its 744s.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
JAL
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:27 pm

Still hopes to see the 748 in China Airlines'livery!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
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Stitch
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:47 pm

Boeing PR statement on the order - http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2545

So that brings net orders for the 777 family to 68 for 2012.

Considering Boeing didn't book their first 777 order of the year until the end of March and had only 15 orders through June, the program has had a nice boost in the second half of the year.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:14 pm

Yet another longhaul player goes with the 77W.

Boeing sure managed to come up with a great plane.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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legacyins
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:32 pm

The 744 is gojng the way of the dodo bird. The 777W is a great alternative and have already seen Asian carriers such as CA, BR replacing their 744 on the Pacific routes.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:48 pm

So they are ordering 6 from B, leasing 4 from GECAS and have purchase rights on 4 more

In addition to the Boeing order for six 777-300ERs, China Airlines also will lease four 777-300ERs from GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS).

Boeing [NYSE: BA] and China Airlines today announced an order for six 777-300ERs (Extended Range) airplanes. The order, which is valued at approximately $2 billion at list prices, includes purchase rights for four additional 777-300ERs.


Sounds like a true 744 replacement program

What will they do with their 20 odd 744Fs though??

[Edited 2012-12-21 11:54:58]
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:57 pm

From CI website
4 leased from GECAS delivery 2014

http://www.china-airlines.com/en/newsen/newsen000804.htm
 
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Stitch
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 41):
What will they do with their 20 odd 744Fs though??

A mix of 747-8Fs and 777Fs?
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:08 pm

China Airlines was the last customer for the 744 passenger airplane, taking 4 in late 2004, early 2005.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 43):
Quoting trex8 (Reply 41):
What will they do with their 20 odd 744Fs though??

A mix of 747-8Fs and 777Fs?

Too close in capability to each other me thinks. I'll bet on 748F (They really need volume more than payload) and A332F (regional and maybe even use intra N america- send the 748s to ANC and then A332 to more destinations in the lower 48 states) . Now that they are part of Skyteam cargo as well maybe everything will change though.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:26 pm

China Airlines will configure its 777-300ERs to accommodate more than 350 passengers in a three-class configuration

from B announcement

Seems tight if FCY unless they go 10 abreast. Present 744s are 12/49/314. Can't see them ditching F on routes to LAX or mainland China
 
coolfish1103
Topic Author
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:00 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 41):
So they are ordering 6 from B, leasing 4 from GECAS and have purchase rights on 4 more

Now this sounds more like a 744 replacement with the 4 purchasing rights.

Probably the 77W will be used temporary to replace some 343 routes before 359 comes in.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 46):
China Airlines will configure its 777-300ERs to accommodate more than 350 passengers in a three-class configuration

Seems tight if FCY unless they go 10 abreast. Present 744s are 12/49/314. Can't see them ditching F on routes to LAX or mainland China

Looks like Emirates' configuration of...

2 rows of 1-2-1 Suite layout for First + 6 rows of 2-3-2 Lie-flat Business + many rows of 31" 3-4-3 Economy

...is the way CI is heading!!!

So a total of 8 First / 42 Business / 304 Economy = 354 Seats (just enough to bypass 350).

What a nightmare to be in those Economy seats...

--

Another thought would be to go the CX route and fit 40 Business / 32 Economy Comfort / 268 Economy = 340 Seats. They can squeeze the pitch a little bit more for another row to get to 350 but ditch the 3-4-3 for 3-3-3 layout (or vice versa).

[Edited 2012-12-22 01:15:22]
 
worldrider
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:44 am

So, if the new 777s are meant to replace the 333s till the A359 comes in then there is a good chance
they are considering a VLA order, and since the 748i hasn't set at the table, one option is left. A nice one.
 
coolfish1103
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RE: China Airlines To Obtain 77Ws

Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:51 am

Quoting worldrider (Reply 48):
So, if the new 777s are meant to replace the 333s till the A359 comes in then there is a good chance
they are considering a VLA order, and since the 748i hasn't set at the table, one option is left. A nice one.

Not really.

By squeezing 350 seats on the 77W with 4 purchase rights pretty much means 77W is the one.
- 10 lease + 4 purchase rights for 77W to replace 13 744s

359 stays as the replacements for 343 and 333
- except that 77W will replace 343 first on long haul as they must go by 2015

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