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Gonzalo
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Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:04 pm

According to Uruguayan newspaper El Pais, the small Uruguayan airline BQB ( considered a Uruguayan airline despite its owner is Argentinian ), will start a 6 x weekly flight MVD-MAD, starting in April 2013.
The announcement follows the IB decision to close the route the next year. Currently IB is the only airline providing direct flights between Uruguay and Europe.
The announcement of BQB also includes a code-share agreement with IB.
The airline will lease two B 767 300 and will hire Uruguayan pilots and crews for this new route.

Link in Spanish only :

http://www.elpais.com.uy/121207/ultm...uta-a-madrid-cancelada-por-iberia/


Rgds.
G.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / FH-227 / A318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789 / B788 / A343 / ATR72-600
 
Pu752
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:38 pm

This is good news indeed, this will move the local job market and will increase the need of more pilots, etc. So Im looking forward for this to start asap.
 
PlunaCRJ
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
the small Uruguayan airline BQB ( considered a Uruguayan airline despite its owner is Argentinian )


The owner has gotten the uruguayan nationality and several of his sons are (were born) in Uruguay.

The planes wear the CX- registry and the crews are uruguayan. I would surely call BQB uruguayan.

.............

Risky move for BQB. Quite a step forward for them.

They plan to operate this as a codeshare with IB; that will provide feed on the european side, and will get this a bit more of a chance of success. But I am still very skeptical about how this would work for them though.... This could easily doom the airline, which, lets face it, seems to lack direction.

I am also skeptical about the fact that they will actually start operating to Madrid. They have a history of announcing many things that eventually never materialize (including this very same route in the past).

The circumstances, with IB retreating and leaving MVD without any connections to Europe, seem right though...

Regards,
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:59 am

Noticeable announcement from BQBairlines Uruguay.
There's a lot of pricey prestige for that airline and Uruguay at stake if the MVD-MAD flights were to operate and fail.
Some wiser solution if Uruguay wants a non-stop to Europe (MAD) could have been to give Chilean LA 5th freedom between MVD-MAD so to woo it to fly the route thrice weekly red-eyes both ways with one of their 2 B737-300ER leased to Caribbean Airlines, which BW don't know what to do with them.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
SCL767
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 3):
Some wiser solution if Uruguay wants a non-stop to Europe (MAD) could have been to give Chilean LA 5th freedom between MVD-MAD so to woo it to fly the route thrice weekly red-eyes both ways with one of their 2 B737-300ER leased to Caribbean Airlines, which BW don't know what to do with them.

LA/JJ would rather have MAD pax traveling between MAD and MVD to connect onto LA/JJ flights into MVD via either GIG, GRU or SCL. LA wouldn't operate a SCL-MVD-MAD route since it simply is not economical and the B763s can be deployed on profitable routes, i.e. SCL-GIG-MIA. Also, BW's two B763s aren't leased directly from LA.
 
PlunaCRJ
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 3):
could have been to give Chilean LA 5th freedom between MVD-MAD

I am not very familiar with the Chile- Uruguay bilateral, so I am not sure about this, but I would say that if LA wanted, they could do this right now.

The open skies agreement between Uruguay and Chile is quite liberal and has enabled (for example) Pluna in the past to fly domestic within Chile with full liberties. I thus expect it to enable LAN to fly between MVD-MAD. But I don´t know.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
LA/JJ would rather have MAD pax traveling between MAD and MVD to connect onto LA/JJ flights into MVD via either GIG, GRU or SCL. LA wouldn't operate a SCL-MVD-MAD route since it simply is not economical and the B763s can be deployed on profitable routes, i.e. SCL-GIG-MIA.

Right now, with Iberia still flying MVD-MAD, TAM is the carrier that carries the biggest percentage of passengers between Uruguay and Europe. LATAM certainly has that covered.


Now, I sustain there IS a market for Uruguay-Europe direct flights. If LATAM doesn´t take it, somebody else will: for example BQB.

How do you know for sure that a MVD-MAD link is "simply not economical"? I wouldn´t be so quick saying that a route commanding an 86 percent loadfactor on an A340, and with yields that (owing to the fact that it´s the only non-stop link to Europe) aren´t that low is "simply not economical".

I have my doubts about BQB making this work, but I am absolutely sure LAN could. Now, that would only increase LATAM´s dominance in South America´s market... something I don´t think would be very good for the consumer...

I am personally routing for BQB here. I have said it a couple of times here already: the southern cone needs more airlines; urgently. Sort of an "anti-consolidation", if you ask me. I believe the market is vastly under-developed, and competition (which right now is very limited) will be vastly beneficial for the consumer.

Regards,
 
PDPsol
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 5):
The open skies agreement between Uruguay and Chile is quite liberal and has enabled (for example) Pluna in the past to fly domestic within Chile with full liberties. I thus expect it to enable LAN to fly between MVD-MAD. But I don´t know.
Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 5):
How do you know for sure that a MVD-MAD link is "simply not economical"? I wouldn´t be so quick saying that a route commanding an 86 percent loadfactor on an A340, and with yields that (owing to the fact that it´s the only non-stop link to Europe) aren´t that low is "simply not economical".

LA could very well decide to use MVD as its international hub for the southern Cone, serving Argentine cities, using LA, or 4M, and initiate SCL-MVD-MAD service.

LA could determine MVD is a much more convenient, flexible and robust hub for operations than, say, EZE, which is a mess. They would simply need to move 2 763s for the route and launch 4M routes from places like ROS, COR, etc. PU tried to do this, unsuccessfully when Argentine authorities denied route authorization. However, 4M is an Argentine carrier and could, one would imagine, operate any to route to MVD it wished.
 
PlunaCRJ
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:13 pm

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 6):
PU tried to do this, unsuccessfully when Argentine authorities denied route authorization. However, 4M is an Argentine carrier and could, one would imagine, operate any to route to MVD it wished.

Well, the Argentine authorities are also blocking 4M. Not "Argentine enough" for them it seems...
 
CamiloA380
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:23 pm

Looks like BQB is finally gearing up, getting a 3rd ATR 72-500, 1 A320 (apparently) and now 2 leased 763ER. There was a false rumour going on that BQB was going to start MAD with the A320, I think it was started by El Observador which was followed by other newspapers.

As to BQB starting MAD with 2 763ERs, while I have to say I *think* It will happen, I'll believe it when I see it.  Why? Because the CEO of Buquebus has promised so many things before, flying to JFK, MAD, MIA, FRA with 787s... and stuff like that... come on. 
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
( considered a Uruguayan airline despite its owner is Argentinian )

You really can't leave the Argentinian people alone, can you? First you thought BQB was Argentinian...now you tell us this. I guess if you actually knew that the former CEO of Pluna is Argentinian, you would have started 4 threads blaming the whole Pluna situation on him. 
Quoting PU752 (Reply 1):

Exactly ! And this is also means that some jobs are saved at the airport, think taxis... buses..shops...all those who need the passenger traffic to make money. MVD was hit really bad when Pluna ceased.

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 2):
They plan to operate this as a codeshare with IB; that will provide feed on the european side, and will get this a bit more of a chance of success.

Exactly, O&D MVD-MAD would otherwise be hard, I wonder if BQB will offer connections on their flights as well.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
LA wouldn't operate a SCL-MVD-MAD route since it simply is not economical

You need to learn what was behind the closure of the route other than just calling it what the media calls it; "uneconomical". We all know how IB is doing, the high labor costs....now Pluna is gone from MVD meaning they don't feed IB anymore....etc..etc..etc.

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 5):
I am personally routing for BQB here. I have said it a couple of times here already: the southern cone needs more airlines; urgently. Sort of an "anti-consolidation", if you ask me. I believe the market is vastly under-developed, and competition (which right now is very limited) will be vastly beneficial for the consumer.
Indeed and that's why I will cheer for those smaller airlines, like BQB and whatever materializes out of the ex-pluna employees' projected airline. 

[Edited 2012-12-08 12:09:35]
Flying4Ever!
 
PDPsol
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 7):
Well, the Argentine authorities are also blocking 4M. Not "Argentine enough" for them it seems...

It all about how it is presented and pitched to the Argentine authorities. Montevideo could smarten up and announce a dramatic liberalization of its commercial aviation sector that would convince everyone, including Buenos Aires, that MVD would be a terrific partner:

- Full open skies policy for any carrier, Argentine, Brasilian, Chilean, that wished to operate to/from MVD
- 4M would be free to crew all its flights with Argentine nationals and even originate flights in MVD with all-Argentine crews and assure Buenos Aires benefits would flow to Argentines
- The same would be offered to any carrier
- Uruguay would be 'blind' to the nationality of any carrier, anyone that wished to operate, and was a IATA certified carrier, could operate
- All bilaterals would be 'ripped up' and Uruguay would declare Open Skies with all nations
- Montevideo would promise to abandon any effort to subsidize carriers, including the ex-PU start-up

The objective would be to generate traffic, traffic and even more traffic to/from MVD, benefiting everyone.
 
C010T3
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 9):
- Full open skies policy for any carrier, Argentine, Brasilian, Chilean, that wished to operate to/from MVD

Already has it with Brazil since last month.
 
SCL767
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:40 am

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 5):
Right now, with Iberia still flying MVD-MAD, TAM is the carrier that carries the biggest percentage of passengers between Uruguay and Europe. LATAM certainly has that covered.

LATAM prefers this method. JJ recently increased frequency on the GRU-MVD route to 3x daily, launched GIG-MVD daily and LA recently increased frequency on the SCL-MVD route to 3x daily. It has been mentioned that JJ's new GIG-MVD service is doing very well and the carrier may increase frequency on the GIG-MVD route.

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 7):

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 6):
PU tried to do this, unsuccessfully when Argentine authorities denied route authorization. However, 4M is an Argentine carrier and could, one would imagine, operate any to route to MVD it wished.

Well, the Argentine authorities are also blocking 4M. Not "Argentine enough" for them it seems...

Argentina's ANAC will not permit 4M to increase its current fleet size in order to protect the interests of AR/AU. Earlier this year 4M wanted to launch EZE-GIG and increase frequency on the EZE-MIA route and was denied the rights to add anymore flights between Argentina and both Brazil and the U.S. IMO, 4M would be very interested in launching BUE-MVD; however it would hurt the interests of the national carrier. To be blunt, AR/AU simply does not like the fact that LATAM's international market-share from Argentina is greater than AR/AU.
 
PlunaCRJ
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
JJ recently increased frequency on the GRU-MVD route to 3x daily, launched GIG-MVD daily and LA recently increased frequency on the SCL-MVD route to 3x daily.

Well, that is logical, since the carrier that carried the greatest amount of passengers between MVD and SCL folded, leaving LA as the only operator. In GIG´s case, leaving the route unattended.

The market is still underserved though.

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 9):

Basically sell MVD as a third Buenos Aires airport then, right? Overcoming the EZE-AEP duality difficulties. You have some very good points, but I am afraid the sheer size of BUE´s OD market wouldn´t make this work.

It makes sense if I am flying between MAD and ROS... but not if I just want to go to Buenos Aires.
 
SCL767
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 12):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
JJ recently increased frequency on the GRU-MVD route to 3x daily, launched GIG-MVD daily and LA recently increased frequency on the SCL-MVD route to 3x daily.

Well, that is logical, since the carrier that carried the greatest amount of passengers between MVD and SCL folded, leaving LA as the only operator. In GIG´s case, leaving the route unattended.

The market is still underserved though.

LA will add a new frequency next month on the route. Incidentally, PU had a bilateral code-share agreement with IB. PU used to code-share on IB's MAD-MVD route and IB used to code-share on various PU operated flights between MVD and Brazil. Perhaps the collapse of PU affected IB's yields on the route?
 
PDPsol
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 12):
Basically sell MVD as a third Buenos Aires airport then, right? Overcoming the EZE-AEP duality difficulties. You have some very good points, but I am afraid the sheer size of BUE´s OD market wouldn´t make this work.
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
IMO, 4M would be very interested in launching BUE-MVD; however it would hurt the interests of the national carrier.

This precisely would be the idea. Offering very convenient AEP-MVD flights from downtown Buenos Aires, connecting quickly in MVD-MAD. Business traffic from AEP could fill up high yielding seats, with O&D traffic from Montevideo filling up the remaining aircraft. That will make the route work.

The key to all this would be a dramatic liberalization of the Uruguayan commercial aviation sector, following the points made earlier, and announced by the government in a bold statement. All-Argentine crews on Argentine carriers would be afforded complete access to the market, along with ANY foreign IATA-certified carrier, crewed with foreign personnel.

Argentine authorities would be convinced to grant route rights to 4M, or anyone else, from COR, ROS and AEP to MVD.

Uruguay would strengthen ties with its massive neighbors and continue its historical role as a neutral, open jurisdiction, allowing foreigners to operate as they wished.

Following the collapse of PU, the opportunity exists for a dramatic change in commercial aviation policy and regional integration. Of course this requires substantial political will, political leadership and excellent sector knowledge. It remains to be seen whether this is possible.
 
PlunaCRJ
Posts: 301
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 13):
PU had a bilateral code-share agreement with IB. PU used to code-share on IB's MAD-MVD route and IB used to code-share on various PU operated flights between MVD and Brazil. Perhaps the collapse of PU affected IB's yields on the route?

Undoubtly PU´s collapse affected IB´s route. In fact, I read somewhere that up to 20% of IB´s passengers where fed by Pluna. I think though that the main reason for IB´s retreat is in IB itself, and that this would have happened with or without Pluna.

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 14):
Following the collapse of PU, the opportunity exists for a dramatic change in commercial aviation policy and regional integration. Of course this requires substantial political will, political leadership and excellent sector knowledge. It remains to be seen whether this is possible.

    

I think the "political will" is there (probably). Unfortunately I don´t see in the government any (at all) "political leadership" or, even less, "excellent sector knowledge" (lets not forget the infamous "CM to MAD" comments by the president)

And that´s a shame.

---------------

You are surely aware that in the past months the government several times hinted at a "total open skies" solution. That is somewhat like what you propose. I didn´t support it as I saw it simply as a way out for the government, without fixing any of the (real) connectivity problems Uruguay has. The thing is, I am not sure that in an environment with such limited competition such as the one that exists in the southern cone this action would really change anything.

Don´t get me wrong, I am in favour of open skies. But not in the "we declare open skies and problem solved" kind of way.

Regards,
 
PDPsol
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RE: Small Airline BQB Will Flight MVD-MAD Eff. Ap 2013

Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 15):
Don´t get me wrong, I am in favour of open skies. But not in the "we declare open skies and problem solved" kind of way.

Absolutely. Pretending a simple statement and policy change with solve all problems is ludicrous. Leaders must create a strategic plan for where they believe the nation's best transport and regional integration interests lie. The policy would simply be part of the strategy, which would involve efforts surrounding education, infrastructure, legal protections, regulatory environment, development of associated sectors, etc.

The strategy is to develop and to develop, opportunity is required. Creating opportunities via insightful new policies will help develop the commercial aviation sector and enhance regional connectivity. This strategy is part and parcel of the broader national strategy to offer a neutral, law focused jurisdiction, with high quality human resources and infrastructure.

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