Is AS Warming More To DL And SkyTeam As A Whole?

olddominion727 · Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:59 pm

I want to make an observation and ask a few questions. It's my thought that AS is warming ever closer to DL/SkyTeam. Yes they still have close ties with many OW carriers like AA, BA, QF, CX but when I was booking a flight on Sabre the other day SJC-SEA I of course saw AS/DL flights. These DL Codeshares used to be AS/AA. Has bankruptcy for AA changed their relationship with AS? I found the AA flights but I had to specifically ask for them. Also, AS is doing more and more with AM. Yes they've had reciprocal practices for some time now, but again seems to be getting passed the dating stage and embarking on more of an intimate relationship. Rumors have always swirled if AS was going to be eaten up by AA, DL (or then NW). How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose? If they fail to chose can we a forceable taking like that of US/AA (should that happen)? I personally think AS/QX being absorbed into DL would be great. PDX and ANC would be large focus cities and SEA would be the crown fortress--and complimenting their current hub/spoke system quite nicely. Having said that, if AS was absorbed by DL, I think it would be then end of the point-to-point service that AS is becoming known for and making quite a name for itself because of. Any thoughts?

SonomaFlyer · Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:10 pm

AS is in a unique position relative to most other U.S. carriers. They have a solid profit history, they don't grow too fast and they have various agreements with several carriers. I don't see pressure on them to change the current arrangements.

Everyone these days seems to think airlines "MUST" go with one alliance or the other. In the case of AS, they consistently buck the trends. I see them continue to do so going forward.

diverdave · Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
Everyone these days seems to think airlines "MUST" go with one alliance or the other. In the case of AS, they consistently buck the trends. I see them continue to do so going forward.

True enough, but there is high potential for changes in the AS/AA relationship if US and AA merge. It could even change to a deeper relationship after a merger should US lose their codesharing arrangements with UA.

David

redzeppelin · Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting diverdave (Reply 3):
It could even change to a deeper relationship after a merger should US lose their codesharing arrangements with UA.

Good point. AA and US are both weak in the northwest US, where AS is strongest. US currently relies on UA to serve a lot of that area via DEN and SFO, and AA's profile is even lower.

luv2fly · Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:24 pm

AS is happy to march to its own drum. Why is it everyone and there brother wants to sign them up to an alliance when so far that have not needed one.

SANFan · Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:21 pm

Agreed. Almost every month or so there's a thread about who AS will merge with (or even worse, be taken over by) or which alliance they "must" be ready to join.

AS is doing a beautiful job of being a profitable, successful, well-liked airline. They have agreements of various kinds with many cx that seem to be working well for all involved.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

bb

ripcordd · Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:12 pm

AA is still code sharing on these flights.

AirframeAS · Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:03 pm

Why join an alliance when "codeshare-whoring" is working very well for them?

EA CO AS · Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose?

As long as they want to, which means indefinitely. DL and AA need the AS codeshares more than AS needs them.

Jet-lagged · Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):
Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose?

As long as they want to, which means indefinitely. DL and AA need the AS codeshares more than AS needs them.

Why do you say that? Not doubting you, just askin'.

AirframeAS · Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 9):
Why do you say that? Not doubting you, just askin'.

Check out how many codeshares AS has and how much money they are each worth to AS and work from there. That should be a given.

olddominion727 · Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:25 pm

I see AS/QX role primarily as a feeder airline for international flights to to all other carriers in PDX, SEA, ORD, DFW, BOS, MIA, LAX, SFO, SAN, PHX, LAS--some of those cities are traditional vacation spots in FL, HI and MX that are a given. This could be the framework that keeps them a loft accept for the captive audience for the intra-AK flights. I guess if they keep their very unique structure, they can really waive their middle finger at the big boys. I don't know for how long though. The original Frontier, Mark Air, Western Pacific, Western, PSA, AirCal, Continental Lite, RenoAir have all been major players on the west cost, alaska and mexico and still was absorbed by the big sharks. aside from the intra-AK flights, AS route system seems to be getting closer and closer to that of WA as a the largest west coast super regional carrier, with an obvious hub difference of SLC vs SEA. WA was huge in PACNW as AS just using different connecting cities.

macsog6 · Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:34 pm

AS works just fine the way it is and I suspect they are happy with the way it works. They do not need an alliance any more than WN does.

EA CO AS · Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 9):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
How much longer can AS really cater to two global alliances and not be forced to choose?

As long as they want to, which means indefinitely. DL and AA need the AS codeshares more than AS needs them.
Why do you say that? Not doubting you, just askin'.

Which part, about AS resisting taking sides between DL and AA, or those two needing AS more than AS needs them?

Jet-lagged · Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
, or those two needing AS more than AS needs th

That bit. Delta i can see benefits from feed at seattle. Maybe you have more in mind. AA nothing comes to mind right now.

SANFan · Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:27 am

Of course there is this thread that recently appeared on A.net:
Delta Adding LAX-SEA (by Deltal1011man Dec 20 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Might this affect this topic as well?

bb

diverdave · Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
Which part, about AS resisting taking sides between DL and AA, or those two needing AS more than AS needs them?

Some parts of the partnership with Delta are just a tad deeper, with reciprocal upgrade benefits for elites. The reciprocal lounge benefits are a bit better for Delta, as Delta members get into Alaska lounges with either a Delta or Alaska ticket. Oddly enough, Admiral's Club members only get into an Alaska lounge with an AA ticket on an AA operated flight.

I would certainly assess that Delta needs AS more than AA needs AS at this time. But again, if US and AA merge, the combined airline would need the West Coast coverage of AS to make up for the (speculated on my part) loss of the code shares with UA.

David

EA CO AS · Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:26 am

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 14):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):, or those two needing AS more than AS needs thQuoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):, or those two needing AS more than AS needs th
That bit. Delta i can see benefits from feed at seattle. Maybe you have more in mind. AA nothing comes to mind right now.

DL benefits from feed at SEA, AA benefits from feed at LAX (and so does DL, but to a far lesser degree), and AS can grow organically outside the West Coast whereas it would be much more difficult and costly for AA and DL to get the same degree of growth on the West Coast that AS currently provides via the codeshare.

AAIL86 · Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:16 pm

[quote=jet-lagged,reply=14]AA nothing comes to mind right now.

Well it benefits AA in several ways, one of which was mentioned; e.g. feed at LAX. It also helps cover a hole in the AA network on the west coast, allowing codeshare to destinations AA can't/won't share (Pacific Northwest and Alaska) and award redemption for elites.

DeltaMD90 · Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:25 pm

Didn't AA just pass something that allows more codeshare with AA at LAX? I see AA/AS becoming big at LAX, maybe not as big as DL/AS at SEA, but big enough that AS wouldn't want to give it up.

Plus, I think AS giving up on codesharing with AA would throw away a lot of anti-merger insurance...

BoeingGuy · Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
Plus, I think AS giving up on codesharing with AA would throw away a lot of anti-merger insurance...

Exactly. If AS wants to stay independent, and I believe they do, the smartest thing they have done is maintain strong code share relationships with key members of both Sky Team (DL, AF, KL, KE) and One World (AA, LA, QF, BA).

Did anyone read the article in this month's Trains magazine about Kansas City Southern? It draws strikingly interesting parallels with AS. The author was talking about how KCS has remained independent in the face of huge railroad mergers, and he talks about how KCS has managed to do so. Read the article. You'll almost feel like AS and KCS have gone down the same paths.