Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
gr09
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:52 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:14 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 44):
There was no hard landing. Don't believe everything you see posted on the web.

It was reported as an unusually hard landing at two independent forums by people who had been on the flight. Why would aviation enthusiasts lie about that? I can't think of any motivation.
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6538
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:16 am

Quoting gr09 (Reply 50):
It was reported as an unusually hard landing at two independent forums by people who had been on the flight. Why would aviation enthusiasts lie about that? I can't think of any motivation.

Subjective perceptions cannot replace facts.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
gr09
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:52 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:25 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 51):
Subjective perceptions cannot replace facts.

And what are the facts?
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:26 am

It is very wise of LOT to take their &*&s out of service until the electrical problems are sorted out. No one wants an inflight incident.

I notice that the only 787s flying around, according to Flightradar24, are the one's based in Japan. Have QR taken their 787s out of service too as a precaution?
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
ordwaw
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 9:55 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:33 am

Quoting babybus (Reply 53):
Have QR taken their 787s out of service too as a precaution?
QR
I saw two of them on FR24 today ... DOH-LHR very early in the morning, and DOH-DXB just recently.

LO
LOT SP-LRB flew WAW-LHR at 9:00-11:00 am GMT+1 and should be coming back very soon.

B787 WAW-VIE is scheduled for 17:20 ...

[Edited 2012-12-22 03:45:06]
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6538
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting gr09 (Reply 52):
And what are the facts?

I don't know, I simply say that people shouldn't jump to conclusions after hearing reports from passengers.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
lhrnue
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:54 am

I read that LH has engineers at Boeing during production, test and and delivery of each of their aircraft to ensure they are faultless when handed over. Is any other airline (in this case LOT) doing something similar?
 
gr09
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:52 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:30 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 55):
I don't know, I simply say that people shouldn't jump to conclusions after hearing reports from passengers.

Where am I jumping into conclusions? I'm just saying people on aviation forum reported hard landing on Wednesday. And I was replying to statement from Danny (was he even on the plane on that day?).
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6538
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting gr09 (Reply 57):
Where am I jumping into conclusions?

Did I suggest that? No. I said "people".

Some users seem to relate an allegedly hard landing to technical problems which grounded the plane - that's what I question as long as we don't know more facts from reliable sources.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27452
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting worldrider (Reply 48):
Yet another 787 going tech just after delivery. "someone" isn't taking its time and doesn't want to pay penalties.

That "someone" would be LOT, then.

There is a reason they have C(ustomer) flights, so the new owners can try it out before they hand over the final payment and accept the title.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15104
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:06 pm

I have never heard of a revenue flight scheduled the same afternoon as a delivery flight, but maybe it happens. Most likely at WN with the 1000th 737 they've flown, not LOT w their second 787. But hey, they know best, right? To me it seems like a case of PR trumps proper planning.

As for the Planehunter, its nice you choose to discount two accounts of a hard landing right before the plane went tech because PAST flights had smooth landings, but there's no logic there. Might as well ignore crashes too because, we'll, that same plane never crashed before...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
anstar
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 31):
Regardless of it arriving at 15:15, I doubt that is really enough time to enter it into service. Most aircraft are not delivered with everything in place ready to straight out on line. There is likely a lot of personalisation required including emergency equipment such as BCFs, PBEs etc...

I seem to revcall V Australia took deliveries of their 777's and the first pax flights were LAX-SYD....
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 56):
I read that LH has engineers at Boeing during production, test and and delivery of each of their aircraft to ensure they are faultless when handed over. Is any other airline (in this case LOT) doing something similar?

It's usual for customer airline engineers to be at Boeing (or Airbus, etc) when taking first delivery of a plane that's new to the fleet, but it has much more to do with learning and familiarization than overseeing the manufacturer.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 45):
I suspect some sort of material defect in the part of the landing gear

If so, it would have had to be in a replaceable part...they did not have enough time to change gear and there are essentially zero allowable material defects in the gear strut itself.

Quoting worldrider (Reply 48):
Yet another 787 going tech just after delivery. "someone" isn't taking its time and doesn't want to pay penalties.

Why do you think they don't pay? All the delivery delay penalties have long since been paid and all these aircraft are still under warranty. It's much cheaper to delay delivery and fix it than have to pay for the warranty fix.

Quoting worldrider (Reply 48):
Fortunatly no disaster hasn't happened so far.

Why do you say "fortunately"? What defect has occured anywhere that came even remotely close to being a disaster? Unless you just mean the general context that every aircraft that makes it to it's destination has "fortunately not had a disaster so far."

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 56):
I read that LH has engineers at Boeing during production, test and and delivery of each of their aircraft to ensure they are faultless when handed over. Is any other airline (in this case LOT) doing something similar?

That's normal for anyone with reasonably sized production runs. LH does, BA does, ANA does, JAL does, UA does...I would assume LOT does too.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 58):
Some users seem to relate an allegedly hard landing to technical problems which grounded the plane -

Well, it's a hell of a coincidence for an aircraft to have multiple reports of a hard landing and then be tech for a landing gear problem. I agree it's not proof but it's not unreasonable to relate the two absent additional data.

Tom.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15104
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 63):
Well, it's a hell of a coincidence for an aircraft to have multiple reports of a hard landing and then be tech for a landing gear problem. I agree it's not proof but it's not unreasonable to relate the two absent additional data.

Exactly. There is no obligation for anyone to tell us anything, but you combine hard landing with going tech for gear problems, and you have to wonder. And that can include brake problems, because you could easily bounce while braking causing some strain on the brakes that may not be normal.

Which is NOT to say it is LOT's fault. Again, it could be Boeing's fault for having a tolerance too low under this condition that was never replicated during testing. If we see some sort of redesign of the brakes after this incident, that might be a clue.

It could also have been a fault in the flight control software that lead to the hard landing. But to just dismiss the accounts of a hard landing from those ON THE FLIGHT because other flights were smooth is ludicrous.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
CM
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:17 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 59):
That "someone" would be LOT, then.

Maybe, but this can only be part of the problem.

It is certainly true that introducing any new aircraft into the fleet of an airline is complex. When it is a brand new aircraft type on top of that, the complexity is multiplied. A wise airline will always take a measured approach rather than diving right in.

In the case of NH & JL, they were both deeply involved with the 787 engineering effort with a large engineering staff in Everett for years while the 787 was being developed. Still, they each took a month after first 787 delivery before beginning revenue flights with their 787s. AI & ET have far less experience with the 787 and less understanding of the airplane, but have pushed the 787 into revenue service much faster. UA, LO & LA have the same amount of experience with the 787 as AI & ET, but have taken a more conservative approach to placing the aircraft into service.

Airline - Time from delivery to first revenue flight

UA.. 41 Days
JL.. 35 Days
LA.. 31 Days
NH.. 30 Days
LO.. 30 Days
AI... 13 Days
ET.. 1 Day

As a point of comparison, Malaysia took their first A380 in on May 27, 2012 and did not put it into revenue service until July 1 - 5 weeks later - for an airplane type which had its EIS 5 years ago.



When we flew ZA001 to WAW after the Paris Airshow in 2011, I was struck with just how small an operator LO is. I don't say this in a disparaging way toward LO, because I KNOW they are a quality operator. However, they do not have the same engineering and technical resources at their disposal as NH, JL or UA. With the same level of experience as UA, and fewer resources, LO has chosen to push the airplane into service faster. In a relative sense, they are pushing the 787 harder than UA. This may be a part of the reason for their difficulty.

On the other hand, some of the issues LO is rumored to have faced (defective landing gear component, door seal leakage, etc) would be workmanship and quality problems, and no amount of knowledge about the airplane or prep in advance of placing it into service would help mitigate these types of problems. If true, these issues can't point back to LO, even if there were a few rough landings.

Edit: Clarified last statement.

[Edited 2012-12-22 11:57:53]
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6538
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 60):
As for the Planehunter, its nice you choose to discount two accounts of a hard landing right before the plane went tech because PAST flights had smooth landings, but there's no logic there. Might as well ignore crashes too because, we'll, that same plane never crashed before...

Where exactly did I say anything about smooth past landings? Read more carefully and stop putting things in my mouth.

I'm simply skeptical about one or two reports about "hard landings". Subjective perceptions can be very different from reality. I don't accept that as a proof for anything.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
FlyingAY
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:26 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 66):

I'm simply skeptical about one or two reports about "hard landings". Subjective perceptions can be very different from reality. I don't accept that as a proof for anything.

Yes, you hear people telling stories about hard landings even if that was just a normal firm landing. If pilot rumors are considered unreliable here on the board, I'd place passenger / eye witness stories somewhere far behind... Anyway, isn't there a accelerometer or such to measure the amount of g when the plane lands and if this is within the limits the manufacturer has defined, no action is required?
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:34 am

SP-LRB is enroute WAW to HAJ ad LO 403 running about 40 min behind schedule.
This is one of two visits of LO's B787 to HAJ in the coming days (next: 04-JAN-2013 in the afternoon).
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 68):
SP-LRB is enroute WAW to HAJ ad LO 403 running about 40 min behind schedule.

The reason given was "operational problems", IIRC. Initially, the delay was announced to be 15 minutes, then indefinite, then came the boarding announcement... PHEW! 
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 69):
The reason given was "operational problems", IIRC. Initially, the delay was announced to be 15 minutes, then indefinite, then came the boarding announcement... PHEW! 

I had thought the minus 10 °C in WAW could have played a rôle here. And the closure of WMI.

Just in case, the following website has pictures from HAJ (with LOTs of rain):
haj-spotter-forum.de/thread.php?threadid=3818&sid=&page=1

The URL deliberately is incomplete as one never knows which website may be linked directly these days here on A.net.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
User avatar
mke717spotter
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting ordwaw (Reply 18):
The plan was to have these intra Europe flights on 787 completed by January 15, 2013.

Then on January 16, 2013 start WAW-ORD-WAW.

and follow early February with WAW-YYZ-WAW and WAW-JFK-WAW (once LP-LRC is in place) and in March WAW-PEK-WAW (once LP-LRD is in place).

With the introduction of B787 aircraft, the old B767 were supposed to be phased out.

There were no scheduled flights on B767 beyond North American and Asian destinations.


So if they're not going to continue some of these short-haul flights, where are all their 787s going to go? They ordered 8, but they cut EWR, KRK, and RZE so it would seem like a few of them could be sitting around quite a bit. Any chance of getting some new/restored service to North America or are all the new routes going to be to Asia?
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:22 am

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 67):
Anyway, isn't there a accelerometer or such to measure the amount of g when the plane lands and if this is within the limits the manufacturer has defined, no action is required?

Yes, although it relies on the flight crew to notify maintenance of a potential hard landing. Maintenance then pulls the landing data, which includes a capture of acceleration on all three axes (both directional and rotational) at touchdown. There's a table in the AMM that specifies what action should be taken based on the values.

Quoting HT (Reply 70):
I had thought the minus 10 °C in WAW could have played a rôle here.

Any certified jet is tested considerably colder than that...at least -30 for FAA certification, -40 for Canada/Russia.

Tom.
 
flyingbird
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:21 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 am

From Flightradar24 Facebook:

LOT's second Dreamliner (SP-LRB) flying as LO223 to Vienna this morning, made some circles outside of Vienna, and is now going back to Warsaw. We don't know the reason yet.

http://fr24.com/LOT223
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5481
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting flyingbird (Reply 73):
LOT's second Dreamliner (SP-LRB) flying as LO223 to Vienna this morning, made some circles outside of Vienna, and is now going back to Warsaw. We don't know the reason yet.

Bad weather in Vienna? Visibility is a problem at the moment.
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:29 am

That can't be the reason, other flights landed on time or with slight delay, except of course the 787 would be flying VFR  
If they continue this way, the trans atlantic operation would not be very reliable.
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6538
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:27 am

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 75):
If they continue this way, the trans atlantic operation would not be very reliable.

Still three weeks to go. No reason to dramatize anything.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
ordwaw
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 9:55 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:00 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 74):
Bad weather in Vienna? Visibility is a problem at the moment

Apparently, Polish news sources quote weather conditions in VIE, and visibility or lack of due to fog in particular, as the reason for returning to WAW. Passengers will allegedly be transferred onto another a/c and fly to VIE.

Is it possible that Polish pilots are not (yet) certified to land 787 in CAT II or CAT III ?

[Edited 2012-12-24 04:33:19]

[Edited 2012-12-24 04:41:37]
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting ordwaw (Reply 77):
Is it possible that Polish pilots are not (yet) certified to land 787 in CAT II or CAT III ?

Must be it then, but silly from their operations to dispatch the plane there if they know they won't be able to land.
Nice for the 787 fans, but bad for regular pax to fly to Vienna to find out weather is below minima and then going back to their origin.
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
PEET7G
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting ordwaw (Reply 77):
Is it possible that Polish pilots are not (yet) certified to land 787 in CAT II or CAT III ?

Exactly what happened.
Peet7G
 
milan320
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:25 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting ordwaw (Reply 77):
Apparently, Polish news sources quote weather conditions in VIE, and visibility or lack of due to fog in particular, as the reason for returning to WAW. Passengers will allegedly be transferred onto another a/c and fly to VIE.

Indeed that seems the case. Gazeta Wyborcza has an article on it (sorry in Polish). According to the article, this time there was no problem with the plane, rather bad weather conditions due to fog. The flight circled over Vienna a number of times and then returned to Warsaw. The passengers after returning to Warsaw switched planes and are waiting (at the time the article was written) for improvements to the weather in Vienna.

http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomos...dnia.html#BoxWiadTxt?lokale=krakow
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
ordwaw
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 9:55 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 79):
Quoting ordwaw (Reply 77):
Is it possible that Polish pilots are not (yet) certified to land 787 in CAT II or CAT III ?

Exactly what happened.

How many hours does it take for a pilot to obtain ILS CAT II and CAT III certifications? Does it vary from a/c to a/c?

Considering that B787 is new to LO, QR, and UA, would it be safe to assume that none of these airlines has pilots already certified on B787 for CAT II and III?
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:28 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 72):
Quoting HT (Reply 70):I had thought the minus 10 °C in WAW could have played a rôle here.
Any certified jet is tested considerably colder than that...at least -30 for FAA certification, -40 for Canada/Russia.

I was thinking of delays in departure due to regular de-icing being required, taking into account that there might be extra delays due to the extra traffic WAW currently has to take over due to WMI's closure (affecting) FR) and W6's temporarily move back to WAW until 06-JAN-2014 midnight.

Quoting flyingbird (Reply 73):
OT's second Dreamliner (SP-LRB) flying as LO223 to Vienna this morning, made some circles outside of Vienna, and is now going back to Warsaw.

LO must have known about the weather situation at VIE before take-off then, I suppose ?
I doubt that under normal operations they would have fueled the B787 with so much fuel to fly out 342 mi, circle VIE, and fly back 342 mi to WAW.
What Primary Alternate would a flight plan WAW to VIE list ?
BTS ? But chances are high that the weather isn't better there, too, given the short distance between VIE and BTS.
BRQ, GRZ, LNZ, BUD ?

OTOH, the B787 without doubt has enough fuel capacity to easily return to WAW.
Might LO even have planned not to refuel at VIE at all, if they had landed there ?
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
PEET7G
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:26 am

Quoting HT (Reply 82):
LO must have known about the weather situation at VIE before take-off then, I suppose ?
I doubt that under normal operations they would have fueled the B787 with so much fuel to fly out 342 mi, circle VIE, and fly back 342 mi to WAW.
What Primary Alternate would a flight plan WAW to VIE list ?
BTS ? But chances are high that the weather isn't better there, too, given the short distance between VIE and BTS.
BRQ, GRZ, LNZ, BUD ?

By the time of departure, the info was that conditions at VIE would be within CAT I RVR of 550m and that the weather will improve...nature is tricky.

The choice of returning to WAW instead of a diversion, was that all logical alternatives had similar or even worse weather, or not ready to service the 787, besides at WAW the 787 has a whole on-site support team, I think during these "test runs" they always plan to be able to return to WAW in any case unless it is an emergency.

...and LOT had other planes ready to take the passengers to their final destination.
Peet7G
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 4086
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:29 am

Same issue happened to an Air India 787 in Delhi on Monday.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...Christmas/articleshow/17749849.cms
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 5):

Don't scare me, I am booked on the 5th BRU-WAW and on the tenth WAW-BRU  
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:35 am

What's the status of their birds? LRA appears to be back in service with FR24 showing it operating to PRG and MUC on the 28th. LRB (edited, brainfart) hasn't flown since the 24th?

[Edited 2012-12-28 20:11:14]
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting flood (Reply 86):
Quoting flood (Reply 86):

Also,what are my chances for the fifth of Jan BRU-WAW LO 236?
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting LO231 (Reply 87):
Also,what are my chances for the fifth of Jan BRU-WAW LO 236?

If I'm not mistaken, their schedule only shows them operating WAW-BRU-WAW early morning and FRA in the evening - easily done with one aircraft. That said, you should be fine.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting LO231 (Reply 87):
Also,what are my chances for the fifth of Jan BRU-WAW LO 236?

Pretty decent, I suspect. As per the list of flights that was made available here:
LOT's 787 Dreamliner Flights Around Europe (by kamilinlondon Oct 21 2012 in Civil Aviation)
there will be no more than two 787 rotations on that day; WAW-BRU-WAW and WAW-FRA-WAW. The entire promotional flight schedule seems to be designed for one aircraft, and with generous buffers on top, so SP-LRB must be busy doing other things while SP-LRA is used for the promo flights. Unless both go tech, LRB is probably going to be available as a backup - just the way it was used on e.g. WAW-HAJ-WAW on the 23rd.

All things considered, if I were you, I wouldn't be tense, but certainly crossing my fingers.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ordwaw
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 9:55 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:31 pm

SP-LRA encountered a problem at FRA after arriving from WAW this morning (Jan 4). The return flight was cancelled, passengers rebooked onto other flights.

According to LOT spokesman, the pilots went through the checklist, consulted with Boeing, and were able to address the problem and return to WAW (empty, no pax), leaving FRA at Noon.

As a result, the second flight of the day, the afternoon flight to HAJ, leaving WAW at 14:00 was made on SP-LRB, which was recalled from a training duty around KRK this afternoon.
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5481
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting ordwaw (Reply 90):
As a result, the second flight of the day, the afternoon flight to HAJ, leaving WAW at 14:00 was made on SP-LRB, which was recalled from a training duty around KRK this afternoon.

I was booked on the HAJ flight this afternoon and started getting a little nervous when I noticed the inbound had been cancelled. I followed both aircraft on flightradar24 so knew there was a good chance I'd be flying the Dreamliner despite the earlier cancellation.

By the time I arrived at the gate -LRB was already there and looked set to go but we were still delayed by over an hour due to "operational reasons" and a lot of attention was being paid to the nose gear by ground staff but no other reason was given until boarding suddenly started. While this was going on -LRA arrived and taxied to a stand opposite the terminal. Pleased to say the flight on -LRB went perfectly despite the delay and I even got to see it depart back to WAW as I waited for my flight to LHR.
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:13 am

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 91):
By the time I arrived at the gate -LRB was already there and looked set to go but we were still delayed by over an hour due to "operational reasons" and a lot of attention was being paid to the nose gear by ground staff b

In return I flew on SP-LRB on the return section HAJ to WAW and with a very light passenger load (LF between 25 and 30 %) and noticed that the aircraft taxied very (!) slowly. Especially at WAW it was slower than walking speed.

Today's rotation to BRU and back currently is being carried out by SP-LRA (passing south of Magdeburg at the time of writing) operating on time.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
sweair
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:24 am

Is it as quiet as the film clips made seem to give the feeling of? Even the 748i seems quiet compared to the 744. As more planes will be twins it is a positive if engines get quieter.
 
HT
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:06 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 93):
Is it as quiet as the film clips made seem to give the feeling of? Even the 748i seems quiet compared to the 744. As more planes will be twins it is a positive if engines get quieter.

I was sitting in seat 28J which is the window seat in the second last row on SP-LRB.
Here is my perception:
Engine noise was negligible in cruise; during take off and climb it was audible but nothing to be concerned of, taking into account that the engines likely were derated for that take off with a very light load. Still the take off roll was very short.

More noise is coming from the air rushing along the fuselage - and for a new design, I was not too impressed by the noise levels I experienced.
Also ventilation makes noticeable noise as did some kind of pump (or similar) that was operating until a good way throughout climb.

Granted, my last experiences with A330 / A340 have been in the front of the cabin, but I found the back of the B788 noticeably more noisy than the front of the said Airbii. And I am only referring to technical noise, not created by humans.

Also I found the electronic window shading operating very slowly. It was that slow that I first thought that it was inop. A full darkening took like 60 seconds or so (based feeling, no stop watched), the same is true for becoming fully translucent.

My   
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 94):
Also ventilation makes noticeable noise as did some kind of pump (or similar) that was operating until a good way throughout climb.

Center hydraulic pumps. There are two and they're inside the wing-body fairing under your feet. Prior to takeoff they both go to high speed to provide sufficient hydraulic power for fail-safe gear and flap retraction. Once the airplane cleans up one shuts down and the other goes to low speed.

Quoting HT (Reply 94):
Granted, my last experiences with A330 / A340 have been in the front of the cabin, but I found the back of the B788 noticeably more noisy than the front of the said Airbii. And I am only referring to technical noise, not created by humans.

In general, the front is always quieter than the back. Most of the mechanical systems (i.e. the noisy ones) are in the wing/body fairing and the tail, and the air noise gets worse as you go back.

Tom.
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting LO231 (Reply 87):
Also,what are my chances for the fifth of Jan BRU-WAW LO 236?

Glad to see your flight was operated by a 787, let us know how it went  
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 95):
Center hydraulic pumps.

That's this high-pitched sound? It ceases at 11:15.
http://youtu.be/tfjNSUvwG6M?t=9m40s
 
PEET7G
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 95):
Center hydraulic pumps. There are two and they're inside the wing-body fairing under your feet. Prior to takeoff they both go to high speed to provide sufficient hydraulic power for fail-safe gear and flap retraction. Once the airplane cleans up one shuts down and the other goes to low speed.

Thanks for that explanation tdscanuck, now at least I know what was driving me crazy before. I found that high pitch noise extremely disturbing on my 787 flights and in fact was probably the only thing that disturbed, but totally ruined my cabin comfort experience at the beginning on my 787 trips... I remember on my first 787 flight on ANA I thought I will simply open the door and get out if I have to listen to that sound all through my trip.

Quoting flood (Reply 96):
That's this high-pitched sound?

Yepp...that is that annoying sound... However what I find interesting is that on the ANA 787s (and I yet have no other experience with 787s) this annoying sound started right after pushback and stopped as soon as the engines spooled up for takeoff...or at least when reaching a mid speed down the runway, but definitely before leaving the ground. I think this whining greatly disrupts the overall experience.

...by the way I will be on a joyride trip on the LOT 787 BUD-WAW on the 11th, and be back on it WAW-BUD on the 13th anyone else on the flight?  
Peet7G
 
SA7700
Posts: 2930
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: LOT 787 Gone Tech?

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:18 pm

As this specific plane is no longer "technical" and the thread has run its course for all intents and purposes, it will be locked for further contributions. Any posts added after the lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Thanks and regards,

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos