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DalDC9Bos
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LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:39 am

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/las-ve...html;_ylt=A2KJ3CX3etZQgyIAC8XQtDMD

Per the article: Las Vegas Air set to launch during 2013.

The idea by itself of another 'cool airline' and the fact that some of its leadership are from other failed airlines doesn't seem too offer too much confidence that this will work. What do you think? No matter how much enthusiasm EOS had about their product when I interviewed with them...it didn't help them from failing. Seems to be on a VX track, but using Las Vegas as a hub.

W
 
LV
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:49 am

This again? Seriously? No, it's not going to happen. I know in this business never say never but I will say never on this one. Holograms on a plane? Really? There is already an airline who has carved a niche out with a Vegas centric business plan and that is G4. And any place this airline wants to fly either WN or G4 already goes there from LAS
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:12 pm

"Projections estimate LV Air will move 2 million passengers within it’s first two years of operation."

Prominently highlighted in the URL I provided.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:00 pm

With a string of successes such as these, sounds pretty good to me! 

"Leading the LV Air launch team is Andrew Cowen, Managing Director of Mango Aviation partners (The company which helped launch other luxury airlines such as Silverjet, Eos and Duo) "
I don't take responsibility at all
 
srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Quote:
Armed with over $35 million, a soft aircraft market, and an experienced management team at the helm, LV Air makes strides towards a launch in 2013. The company will have offices in Las Vegas and New York City.

Let's see how far $35 million gets them, even with this "experienced management team", which was involved with failed airlines Silverjet, Eos and Duo. The press release also mentions them acquiring a certificated carrier. I wonder what small airline they'll be buying in order to get their o.c.?

I'm a gambling man, and the chances of this airline even making it to its' first flight are slim and none. The guy behind this "airline" has a history of failed businesses, primarily hotels and is far from being the "successful entrepreneur" the press release gushes about.

http://lv-air.pissedconsumer.com/lv-...tion-and-fraud-20110507236438.html

What Ever Happened To Las Vegas Air? (by emirates202 Feb 23 2012 in Civil Aviation)
Looks Like LV Air Could Be A No-Go. (by srbmod May 9 2011 in Civil Aviation)

The guy was exposed by the local media in Las Vegas and has laid low for a time waiting for the smoke to clear.
 
LV
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:34 pm

Wasn't there an article somewhere that this guy has a warrant out for him out of Placer County, California for something he did at a hotel in Tahoe? Whatever it was it wasn't serious enough for them to send up couple of deputies down to Vegas and ask Metro to pick him up but serious enough to keep him from setting foot in California.

But really, they are going to ruin my screen name with this.... and I am sure the management at McCarran will just go out of its way to help get this airline going **sarcasm**
 
dcann40
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting LV (Reply 6):

Wasn't there an article somewhere that this guy has a warrant out for him out of Placer County, California for something he did at a hotel in Tahoe?

This story keeps getting better and better.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:58 pm

Sounds like they are trying to be EK just in a ultra high O/D market and without A380s and no Tim Clark at the helm. I give it 2 years max, if at all.
When wasn't America great?


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srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting LV (Reply 6):
Wasn't there an article somewhere that this guy has a warrant out for him out of Placer County, California for something he did at a hotel in Tahoe? Whatever it was it wasn't serious enough for them to send up couple of deputies down to Vegas and ask Metro to pick him up but serious enough to keep him from setting foot in California.
http://www.lvrj.com/business/lv-air-...t-fly-by-night-plan-121375574.html

The first link I posted in my earlier post is from someone that claims to have been a former LV Air employee and it's pretty damning accusations against the guy behind the airline (This person also posted it on the website Vegas Chatter). From the way it sounds, he's never learned his lessons despite assertions that he had.

There are a lot of folks that come to Vegas with big dreams and big plans and many of them never come to fruition. There's been several airline start-ups proposed for Las Vegas in recent years, Family Airlines/Avatar Airlines and Blackstar Airlines are two that have been/had been stewing in the Vegas Valley for quite some time without anything happening, and LV Air will be nothing more than a paper airline dreamed up by a failed hotelier.

To be honest, if this sort of airline had any viability, don't you think someone would have already been doing it successfully? Las Vegas is a low-yield destination and this sort of venture is doomed to failure. The market he seems to be aiming this airline towards is the type that flies out on the cheapest flight possible and shares a suite at a high-end hotel with a bunch of their friends. LV Air seems to want to be the Cosmopolitan Of Las Vegas of airlines.......
 
LV
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 9):
To be honest, if this sort of airline had any viability, don't you think someone would have already been doing it successfully? Las Vegas is a low-yield destination and this sort of venture is doomed to failure. The market he seems to be aiming this airline towards is the type that flies out on the cheapest flight possible and shares a suite at a high-end hotel with a bunch of their friends. LV Air seems to want to be the Cosmopolitan Of Las Vegas of airlines.......

I deal with this a lot in my job... people call and go "What's the price of the Bellagio?.... what, I cant afford that.... okay, what about Luxor?.... what, I cant afford that.... tell me the rate for Excalibur?... oh that's too much.... okay, I'll stay at Circus Circus"
 
srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:05 am

Quoting LV (Reply 10):
I deal with this a lot in my job... people call and go "What's the price of the Bellagio?.... what, I cant afford that.... okay, what about Luxor?.... what, I cant afford that.... tell me the rate for Excalibur?... oh that's too much.... okay, I'll stay at Circus Circus"

Just tell them that Circus Circus is just like staying at Bellagio, as the furniture in the rooms there is Bellagio's old furniture.

One of the markets LV Air plans to offer service to is NYC and they would really have to work to get folks to dump DL, AA, B6 and VX (Which seems to be some inspiration for LV Air's style and service.) and airlines like DL and AA could always decide to go against LV Air (if it took to the air) with the level of service they currently have on flights between JFK and LAX. Let's not also forget about FF miles either. The majority of folks sitting in First Class on flights into LAS are frequent flyers that have either cashed in miles for a First Class ticket or are elite members of that airlines' FFP and get automatically upgraded to First. LV Air (if it actually takes flight) will find themselves struggling to fill their first class cabin (something that FL experienced when they rolled out their business class cabin) unless they offer some really good fares or upgrade rates to it (and hope that DL, AA and VX don't match those fares).
 
N908AW
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:40 am

Did anybody else catch this quote...

"An offer has been made to acquire a fully certified carrier."

What in the world does that mean? Are there other airlines than F9 on the market right now?
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:27 am

Quoting N908AW (Reply 12):
"An offer has been made to acquire a fully certified carrier."

What in the world does that mean? Are there other airlines than F9 on the market right now?

Yes, from Reply 5:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 5):
The press release also mentions them acquiring a certificated carrier. I wonder what small airline they'll be buying in order to get their o.c.?

$35 million won't buy Frontier. Think smaller. I'm thinking someone like Vision Airlines or North American Airlines (I could see Global Aviation Holdngs selling them off on the cheap since GAH is in bankruptcy and could use the $$$.) that currently operates widebody a/c like the 767.

Even after buying an airline and presumably the a/c, they're going to burn through what's left of the $35 million fairly quickly redoing the cabins of those planes. I just don't see anyone willing to risk investing in an airline, especially one with such an outlandish idea. Unless they can get some foreign investors who have no issues with being limited to a certain percent ownership, this idea is well beyond the means of the parties involved. They lack any real funding in which to start up operations, even if they contracted their flights to another airline like Direct Air did.
 
dcann40
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:24 am

$35 million should be the marketing budget - not the entire airline's.
 
LV
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:54 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 9):
The first link I posted in my earlier post is from someone that claims to have been a former LV Air employee and it's pretty damning accusations against the guy behind the airline (This person also posted it on the website Vegas Chatter). From the way it sounds, he's never learned his lessons despite assertions that he had.

That's right, El Dorado County... I always got El Dorado and Placer backwards when I lived in Sacramento. Yeah, it sounds like this guy gets as much as a parking ticket and the guys in California are going to haul his butt back. If I was him I would be trying to keep as low a profile as possible rather than making news about a business venture that will never happen.
 
dcann40
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting LV (Reply 15):
If I was him I would be trying to keep as low a profile as possible rather than making news about a business venture that will never happen.

Based on what I'm reading here and elsewhere, this guy lacks a certain amount of common sense (and decency).
 
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mariner
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:13 am

National Airlines - N7 - was a version of this, with 757's.

It started in May 1999, filed Chapter 11 in December 2000 and finally turned up its toes in November 2002.

9/11 didn't help but the airline was already in trouble before that - as in the Chapter 11:

National Airlines Files For Chapter 11 (by ContinentalEWR Dec 7 2000 in Civil Aviation)

mariner

[Edited 2012-12-23 21:15:28]
aeternum nauta
 
dcann40
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
National Airlines - N7 - was a version of this, with 757's.

It started in May 1999, filed Chapter 11 in December 2000 and finally turned up its toes in November 2002.

I don't think National started with all of the baggage and bad karma that LV Air has already gotten
 
Manta
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:34 pm

Any idea where this airline is going to park a bunch of 767 aircraft?
 
srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting Manta (Reply 19):
Any idea where this airline is going to park a bunch of 767 aircraft?

There's not a lack of gates at LAS even with the opening of Terminal 3. and Terminal 2 shutting down. There are unused gates on A as the result of US Airways cutting their LAS hub down to service to PHX, PHL, CLT and DCA plus there are gates on B and D that handle widebody a/c.

That being said, obtaining gate space at LAS is the least of their concerns at this time.....
 
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mariner
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 18):
I don't think National started with all of the baggage and bad karma that LV Air has already gotten

National - N7 - had very little baggage or bad karma. It was well funded by the casinos, and was run by quite respected people. The downside was that it did have an ambitious and overly optimistic plan - too much, much too soon - and probably an unrealistic view of the market.

But if N7 couldn't make it, it is hard to think that a cockamamie idea like LV Air will even get off the ground.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
National - N7 - had very little baggage or bad karma. It was well funded by the casinos, and was run by quite respected people. The downside was that it did have an ambitious and overly optimistic plan - too much, much too soon - and probably an unrealistic view of the market.

But if N7 couldn't make it, it is hard to think that a cockamamie idea like LV Air will even get off the ground.

You definitely could not have predicted the Dot-com Bubble bursting and the economy taking a dive as a result nor could you have predicted 9/11. The Dot-com Bubble bursting is what helped put them into bankruptcy and 9/11 is what ended up killing it after the airline was denied ATSB loan guarantees.

Harrah's as well as Rio were initial investors in the airline and Harrah's acquired the Rio's stake when they purchased the property from the Marnell Family. Harrah's eventually soured on the investment and refused to contribute any additional funding.

LV Air plans on partnering with some of the casinos in Vegas and I highly doubt the folks at MGM Resorts, Caesars Entertainment, Wynn Resorts, Las Vegas Sands, Boyd Gaming or Station Casinos will be interested in any sort of partnership with LV Air. I get the feeling that he'll end up partnering with SBE, who owns the former Sahara and is trying to turn the place into the SLS Hotel & Casino (of course after failing spectacularly with their running of the Sahara and trying to make it a hip spot again). SBE is having trouble getting all of the financing they need to do their project and shady folks seem to run in similar circles......
 
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mariner
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 22):
You definitely could not have predicted the Dot-com Bubble bursting and the economy taking a dive as a result nor could you have predicted 9/11. The Dot-com Bubble bursting is what helped put them into bankruptcy and 9/11 is what ended up killing it after the airline was denied ATSB loan guarantees.

All true.

But it wasn't all "external forces." The business plan was overly ambitious from the git-go (all those 757's?) and it never defined its market. It was perceived as too up-market for the low-end crowd and not up-market enough for the high-rollers. And for those high-rollers who did fly 'em (through the casino deals), there was just too much capacity.

So it relied almost entirely on the "mid-rollers" - and every other airline was chasing them.

mariner

[Edited 2012-12-24 10:38:49]
aeternum nauta
 
srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 23):

They needed something smaller like the 737/A320 and by the time they started looking into that, it was already too late. If I remember correctly, acquiring 737s was part of their plans had they exited bankruptcy (which hinged on them ATSB loan guarantee they ended up not getting). I remember ATL being on their route map as a future destination pretty much the entire time the airline was around (There is a shot of a National 757 at ATL in the database that was taken a few months before the airline went under, but they never did launch scheduled service to ATL.).
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 5):
I wonder what small airline they'll be buying in order to get their o.c.?
Quoting N908AW (Reply 12):
Are there other airlines than F9 on the market right now?
Quoting srbmod (Reply 13):
I'm thinking someone like Vision Airlines or North American Airlines

What about USA3000? They're up for sale aren't they?
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
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mariner
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 24):
They needed something smaller like the 737/A320 and by the time they started looking into that, it was already too late. If I remember correctly, acquiring 737s was part of their plans had they exited bankruptcy (which hinged on them ATSB loan guarantee they ended up not getting).

  

JetBlue began at (roughly) the same time and in 2000, as the dot.com bubble burst, was starting its very successful transcons.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 25):
What about USA3000? They're up for sale aren't they?

USA3000 no longer exists, and has no aircraft anymore. Apple Vacations puts all its charter work through established airlines (Airtran/Frontier/Sun Country, e.g.).

I'm not sure of the status of its AOC, though.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
N908AW
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 26):
I'm not sure of the status of its AOC, though.

It seems to me that they might be looking to pull a page out of Northwest's book and acquire a certificate, then slowly change it to meet their needs...but yeah, no idea here either if USA3000's certificate is for sale or what. Here's the FAA page on it: http://av-info.faa.gov/detail.asp?DS...=121&OPER_NAME=BRENDAN+AIRWAYS+LLC
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
BMI727
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:40 pm

I think they should make this the most brotastic airline ever. Have flight attendants that double as strippers, install water injection on the planes for use like a smoke chip, have IFE that consists entirely of MMA programming, uniforms properly fitted for the display of tribal tattoos, and a livery designed by Ed Hardy. It's a can't miss concept.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:52 pm

I'll believe it when I see it.

...which will be never.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
LV
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 28):
I think they should make this the most brotastic airline ever. Have flight attendants that double as strippers, install water injection on the planes for use like a smoke chip, have IFE that consists entirely of MMA programming, uniforms properly fitted for the display of tribal tattoos, and a livery designed by Ed Hardy. It's a can't miss concept.

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit
 
dcann40
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:27 pm

What does brotastic mean again?
 
srbmod
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 31):
What does brotastic mean again?

Think the guys on Jersey Shore and there you go......

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 28):
I think they should make this the most brotastic airline ever. Have flight attendants that double as strippers, install water injection on the planes for use like a smoke chip, have IFE that consists entirely of MMA programming, uniforms properly fitted for the display of tribal tattoos, and a livery designed by Ed Hardy. It's a can't miss concept.

Based on some of the stuff this airline has hyped, they're about halfway there already. Instead of LV Air, they should name it DB Air..... Sad thing is that you've perfectly described about a third of the typical Vegas visitor....... Well it could be worse, it could be Hipster Airlines, which would probably use L-188s since props are so retro......
 
dcann40
Posts: 129
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RE: LV Air Poised For A 2013 Launch?

Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:57 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 32):
Well it could be worse, it could be Hipster Airlines, which would probably use L-188s since props are so retro......

I was hoping for DC-8s and 707s

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