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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
In terms of profitability, it would make sense for BA to pull out completely of Australia, regardless of prestige. Europeans carriers have let themselves down vs Middle Eastern/Asian-Oceanic air carriers with the exception of a few like LH/LX, a lot of business was lost to EK throughout these past few years. It is time to pull out completely I would say and rely solely on the eastern seaboard of the US for Long-Haul with those new aircraft. Those 777-300er's on a JFK/EWR redeye would kill competition as it is. Simply put EK/QF are too good for BA to compete on routes to that area of the world. Long-term plan would be to drop out of Oneworld and join *A IMO.
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting qf002 (Reply 45): QF will not hesitate to withdraw from LHR if they can't make money there. They proved with SFO that prestige isn't enough to save a route these days, so I don't doubt that it would happen if it was the right thing to do |
Qantas leaving SFO to concentrate at LAX is very different then leaving LHR. IF QF stopped flying to LHR they wouldn't replace it, they would be leaving London, the UK and probably anything west of Dubai. London is far more impaortant to Qantas and the Asutralian economy then Sydney is to BA and Virgin Atlantic. What I don't understand is why BA or Qantas don't fly Perth to LHR which is doable nonstop, its 15 or 16 hours but nonstop.
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- cloudyapple
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
BA can copy QF and tie up with EK to serve SYD via DXB and open up all the ports to the east of Dubai on codeshares with EK!
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9): The Empire is no more and The Queen is probably the last British monarch of Australia. BA flying or NOT would be consistent with cutting of royal ties. |
What? BA flying to Oz and the potential cutting of such a service has nothing to do with 'royal ties'. yours was the most ridiculous post that I have ever read from a 'first class' member to this forum.
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 52): BA can copy QF and tie up with EK to serve SYD via DXB and open up all the ports to the east of Dubai on codeshares with EK! |
Why would BA want to do a deal with Emirates for China, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, India, Malaysia and Thailand ? BA fills the 777 & 744 and makes $$$ to those destinations. Sydney for BA could be done with Malaysia or Qatar, EK is strictly a Qantas deal. Qatar offers UK passengers one stops over Doha to BA passengers from many non-LHR UK cities.
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting lxa333 (Reply 50): In terms of profitability, it would make sense for BA to pull out completely of Australia, regardless of prestige. Europeans carriers have let themselves down vs Middle Eastern/Asian-Oceanic air carriers with the exception of a few like LH/LX, a lot of business was lost to EK throughout these past few years. It is time to pull out completely I would say and rely solely on the eastern seaboard of the US for Long-Haul with those new aircraft. Those 777-300er's on a JFK/EWR redeye would kill competition as it is. Simply put EK/QF are too good for BA to compete on routes to that area of the world. Long-term plan would be to drop out of Oneworld and join *A IMO. |
What do you mean? How have European carriers 'let themselves down'?? Obviously they are flying from a different part of the world than the ME carrries aren't they? LH/LX don't even fly to Aus either so not sure what you meant there.
And who should join star? Tell you what, DL should definitely join star too, it would be soooo much better for them.
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting skipness1E (Reply 49): My VS200 on Christmas Eve was full to HKG with barely anyone transiting on to SYD. |
That's not a major surprise - with both legs overnight those SYD pax would arrive on Boxing Day. I'd suspect many of those who wished to travel "downunder" at that time of the year would like to arrive on or before Chrismas Day!!!
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
Slightly related to this topic, it has been confirmed that with the termination of the JSA with QF, BA is moving Singapore and Sydney services to LHR Terminal 5. Are there any plans to move BKK too, as it will remain as the only longhaul route not operating from Terminal 5?
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
It would seem BA have had KUL on the radar since 2007 based on an article I've come across...
British Airways to discuss reinstating flights to Malaysia
Wednesday September 26, 2007
STOCKHOLM: Officials of Malaysia Airports Holdings Bhd (MAHB) and British Airways (BA) will meet in a couple of months to continue discussions on BA reinstating flights to Malaysia.
MAHB managing director Datuk Seri Bashir Ahmad, who met with BA CEO Willie Walsh at the 13th World Route Development Forum here, said: “There is certainly an interest to return but right now, they are looking at figures and forecasts to ensure that when they do operate, the service will be viable and sustainable for the long term.”
“No date (to commence flights) has been fixed as it depends on the viability of the operations and the availability of aircraft,” he said, adding that it was purely a business decision.
“Every time we talk, the picture becomes clearer. We appreciate their willingness to talk to us openly and to share their views on this matter,” he said.
BA was being cautious because it did not want to have to pull out again. “Once they come in, they want to stay,” Bashir said.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=141&page=31
Excuse the length of the article I've included the source...
EK413
British Airways to discuss reinstating flights to Malaysia
Wednesday September 26, 2007
STOCKHOLM: Officials of Malaysia Airports Holdings Bhd (MAHB) and British Airways (BA) will meet in a couple of months to continue discussions on BA reinstating flights to Malaysia.
MAHB managing director Datuk Seri Bashir Ahmad, who met with BA CEO Willie Walsh at the 13th World Route Development Forum here, said: “There is certainly an interest to return but right now, they are looking at figures and forecasts to ensure that when they do operate, the service will be viable and sustainable for the long term.”
“No date (to commence flights) has been fixed as it depends on the viability of the operations and the availability of aircraft,” he said, adding that it was purely a business decision.
“Every time we talk, the picture becomes clearer. We appreciate their willingness to talk to us openly and to share their views on this matter,” he said.
BA was being cautious because it did not want to have to pull out again. “Once they come in, they want to stay,” Bashir said.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=141&page=31
Excuse the length of the article I've included the source...
EK413
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- flylonghaul
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting VCy (Reply 48): Does anyone know the actual loads on the BA flight to SYD? |
From my last 10 flights on this route QF1/2 and QF31/32 before it changed and BA15/16 the average would have been in the high 90's
When I enquired about the load last June on BA15 I was told it was 100% full that day, I switched to QF1 in SIN and it was also packed to the rafters.BA16 on my return was 100% full to SIN where I switched to QF after a stopover.
Checking availability on BA15/16 for my trip next year and 6 months out on the days that I checked, I found there were already quite a few F, J and W bookings with seating already allocated.
Obviously I am aware my experiences only give a small view, and don't tell us anything of the all important yields.
With business ties between the UK and Australia being so strong surely there must be a lot of corporate contracts that BA has in place that will help ensure the routes survival. And the equipment change puts BA on a somewhat more level playing field against the competition.
Good to see BA really giving the route a fighting chance.
The day this flight stops will be a sad day for us spotters in SYD
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- sydaircargo
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting qf002 (Reply 45): They proved with SFO that prestige isn't enough to save a route these days |
| Quoting jfk777 (Reply 51): Qantas leaving SFO to concentrate at LAX |
I was under the impression that QF was making money on the SFO flight but pulled it because they needed the aircraft for their DFW flight? SFO was dropped right as DFW began.
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- flylonghaul
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
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- DolphinAir747
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
While there is certainly an element of prestige involved with LHR-SYD, the route would not hold with three carriers operating their own metal all the way were it not profitable. It's that simple.
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting VCy (Reply 48): Does anyone know the actual loads on the BA flight to SYD? And does anyone have any info on how VS is performing the route? (just out of curiosity) |
According to Australian government statistics, in the year ending June 2012 BA had a LF of 85.4% for inbound services & 77.3% outbound services. This would include BA9/10 via BKK as this was only shortened in March 2012.
Link:Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting jfk777 (Reply 51): Qantas leaving SFO to concentrate at LAX is very different then leaving LHR. IF QF stopped flying to LHR they wouldn't replace it, they would be leaving London, the UK and probably anything west of Dubai. London is far more impaortant to Qantas and the Asutralian economy then Sydney is to BA and Virgin Atlantic. What I don't understand is why BA or Qantas don't fly Perth to LHR which is doable nonstop, its 15 or 16 hours but nonstop. |
PER-LHR is not a profitable proposition.
| Quoting deconz (Reply 56): That's not a major surprise - with both legs overnight those SYD pax would arrive on Boxing Day. I'd suspect many of those who wished to travel "downunder" at that time of the year would like to arrive on or before Chrismas Day!!! |
VS generally has very low fares on the local HKG-SYD extension anyway, so I doubt this was just because of Christmas. They continue to say that their services here are profitable, but I'm left wondering if it's HKG that's profitable and SYD is just breaking even (and not worth dropping). It wouldn't be a total shock to see them drop SYD down the track (perhaps in cooperation with new VA services to HKG), but not for a few years.
| Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 63): While there is certainly an element of prestige involved with LHR-SYD, the route would not hold with three carriers operating their own metal all the way were it not profitable. It's that simple. |
Because of the JV, QF and BA were effectively the same airline. So really we are moving from two airlines on the direct route (QF/BA and VS) to three (QF/EK, BA and VS).
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
I suspect that the LHR-SIN-SYD route will be "downgraded" to a 77E eventually... The 77W is too much plane for the route (with respect to premium versus economy seating). Another option could be to configure a few high density Y 744s for the route but this will render the aircraft useless to other destinations.
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- skipness1E
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 66): I suspect that the LHR-SIN-SYD route will be "downgraded" to a 77E eventually... The 77W is too much plane for the route (with respect to premium versus economy seating). Another option could be to configure a few high density Y 744s for the route but this will render the aircraft useless to other destinations. |
You do know the whole point of putting the B77W on the route is to achieve the opposite of this? Indeed BA015 / 016 has only recently returned from being a B777-236ER to the larger B747-436.
[Edited 2013-01-02 03:26:45]
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 66): I suspect that the LHR-SIN-SYD route will be "downgraded" to a 77E eventually... The 77W is too much plane for the route (with respect to premium versus economy seating). Another option could be to configure a few high density Y 744s for the route but this will render the aircraft useless to other destinations. |
That exactly the point BA want to up lift overall yield to strengthen to viability of the route without the need to allocate capacity to a partner
Effectively they have striped out the QF sold low margin capacity
As previously stated
The 77W is F14 J56 W44 Y186 =300 - A reduction in non profit tourist (Those price sensitive will surely drift to MEB3/QF or over other far east carrier ) yet 8 extra tourist plus but virtually no difference up front.
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 66): I suspect that the LHR-SIN-SYD route will be "downgraded" to a 77E eventually... The 77W is too much plane for the route (with respect to premium versus economy seating). Another option could be to configure a few high density Y 744s for the route but this will render the aircraft useless to other destinations. |
This does not sound like a usual BA policy, I thought that they would select which ever aircraft type had the correct number of premium seats (yield wise) and then adjust Y pricing to fill/limit demand with whatever is left! And surely they have played this card when they just selected the B77W!
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
Just curious, I am planning to try to fly Non-Rev SIN-LHR on this route in the middle of this month on either QF or BA, they have 4 flights a day at the end of January. I wondered if its really a PITA to try. I do have alternatives, but I want to try to take the QF A388 out with the BA 744 as a back up. wonder how the avg loads are before this JV is gone? I hear BA is full often, but how about QF with 2 daily A388?
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting qf002 (Reply 65): VS generally has very low fares on the local HKG-SYD extension anyway, so I doubt this was just because of Christmas. They continue to say that their services here are profitable, but I'm left wondering if it's HKG that's profitable and SYD is just breaking even (and not worth dropping). It wouldn't be a total shock to see them drop SYD down the track (perhaps in cooperation with new VA services to HKG), but not for a few years. |
Disagree... SQ and some other asian airlines airfare is somewhat a little cheaper than VS. I still prefer to fly with Asian Airlines to fly anywhere in Asia.
Last time i checked the airfare between SYD and HKG on christmas weeks. VS - $1700 whereas SQ - $1300 (including A380 and stopover in SIN).
Of course BA will not terminate the Kangaroo routes cos of VS. If BA would terminate that route, then VS airfare to Australia will be higher.
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RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
If you are flying SIN-LHR, why would you not fly Singapore Airlines? BA and QF are a very distant 2nd to a far superior Asian carrier.
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting nrt1011 (Reply 72): If you are flying SIN-LHR, why would you not fly Singapore Airlines? BA and QF are a very distant 2nd to a far superior Asian carrier. |
Alliance may also come into consideration. Oneworld frequent flyers may choose BA/QF to boost status / points earn. Also if you want to fly Y+, SQ do not offer this class.
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
Yes good point, I am a Star Alliance member and always want to fly them. I certainly understand the Y+, thanks.
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
Give it to Star Alliance. SQ UA LH will cover it. Mho
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
RE: BA On The Kangaroo Route. What Next?
| Quoting nrt1011 (Reply 72): If you are flying SIN-LHR, why would you not fly Singapore Airlines? BA and QF are a very distant 2nd to a far superior Asian carrier. |
The OP stated he/she wanted to non-rev. Depending on his/her employer, SQ might not be a realistic option in this case. However, I fully appreciate the sentiment as SQ offer a very good quality Y experience on this route!