1stspotter
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Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Ryanair pilots regularly fly with less fuel than they'd like according to four Ryanair pilots in KRO's programme, 'Reporter'. They claim that to cut costs they are pressurised into taking as little fuel on board as possible. They see their participation in KRO's 'Reporter' as a wake-up call. "I hope it doesn't take a crash to wake everyone up", says one of them. In 'Reporter', professional organisations call for an in-depth inquiry into the Irish airline's fuel policy.

"Pilots are pressurised into taking as little fuel on board as possible in order to cut costs for the company", one of the pilots says. According to the four pilots this puts safety at risk. "We're always looking for the margins, the regulatory margins too", one of them claims. "Does this affect safety? Yes, it does", replies a colleague.

The pilots link this to events on the 26th of July of this year when three Ryanair planes all sent out mayday emergency calls due to low fuel levels on the same evening when approaching Valencia airport. During a press conference in Madrid, the Ryanair management claimed correct procedures had been followed. But a Spanish air-traffic controller said they were 'emergency' procedures. A reconstruction carried out by Reporter of that evening's events shows a disaster scenario waiting to happen. The pilots claim the incident was a direct result of Ryanair's rigid fuel policy. "If nothing changes then safety will go downhill", was the reaction of one pilot. "Yes, I'm afraid that something will happen if some issues don't change", another pilot said.

The programma can be seen, with undertitles in English, here
http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/201...day_mayday_-_international_version
 
2008matt
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:12 pm

Surprise surprise... I wonder how much they actually save by doing this? Also, why can't extra fuel left over from the flight be used for the next flight?
Every Achievement Starts with a Decision to Try :)
 
B747forever
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 1):
Also, why can't extra fuel left over from the flight be used for the next flight?

Because that extra fuel is "dead" weigh on the previous sector.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
2008matt
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):

Does that mean it is physically unusable or just they are not allowed to use it?
Every Achievement Starts with a Decision to Try :)
 
mrcazzy
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:22 pm

When thinking about the minimum fuel required I would guess it would drastically cut costs, other than just cutting costs of the physical fuel the added weight of the extra fuel will also make a difference.
 
B747forever
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 3):
Does that mean it is physically unusable or just they are not allowed to use it?

Let us say that a flight needs 1000kg of fuel, and that the regulatory minimum they have to carry is 1100kg. Of course then they will carry 1100kg of fuel, but anything more than that is unnecessary weigh.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
2008matt
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:36 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):

I see what you mean. In that case, as there is a legal minimum, why do the FR pilots consider this dangerously low?
Every Achievement Starts with a Decision to Try :)
 
flyingalex
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:47 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 1):
Also, why can't extra fuel left over from the flight be used for the next flight?

It can be used later, no problem. But the thing is that whenever you increase your aircraft's weight, your fuel consumption goes up. If you transport additional fuel (= additional weight), you burn more fuel.

Ryanair's policy appears to be to "encourage" pilots to take on the absolute minimum fuel necessary, to cut down on the amount of fuel burned to transport fuel. I can see the attraction - it must add up to a massive saving across a fleet of 306 aircraft. However, at other airlines, pilots can take on extra fuel at their discretion, without anyone making an issue of it.

I do wonder how much Ryanair effectively saves by doing it this way though. If they have a higher diversion rate because of this policy, it may cost them more in the long run.

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 6):
In that case, as there is a legal minimum, why do the FR pilots consider this dangerously low?

Because sh*t happens. Weather, ATC trouble, a closed diversion airport, whatever. You're safer with more fuel than with less fuel.

A good adage is: there is nothing so useless as the altitude above you, the runway behind you or the fuel in the truck.
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kl911
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:56 pm

Ok, starting the Ryanair bashing again I see.


Belgian authorities already stated that this claim is false, as they often check FR planes for fuel since the Valencia incidents, where btw FR was found to carry enough fuel.

Planes carry the minimum required, yes, but that goes for all airlines at the moment. This program btw is known for presenting 'facts' without checking first.

http://www.bnr.nl/meernieuws/326904-...stof-wel-op-orde-bij-ryanair-belgi

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl...to-defend-safety-record-again.html


quote : : "These claims have no validity and originate from a Dutch TV programme which featured anonymous contributors in darkened rooms.

"The reason these anonymous contributors did not want their identities revealed is because there was no truth to their claims."

Ryanair said pilots were allowed to take as much fuel as they wished, which in all cases was more than the minimum reserve amount.
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Belgian authorities already stated that this claim is false, as they often check FR planes for fuel since the Valencia incidents, where btw FR was found to carry enough fuel.

There is a HUGE difference between what constitutes legal and what constitutes safe. One does not always equal the other. What the authorities consider "enough" fuel is likely whatever the regulations state. What pilots consider enough varies from one flight to the next and is dependent on a number of factors.




$afety fir$t, as usual.
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futureualpilot
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:29 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Ryanair said pilots were allowed to take as much fuel as they wished, which in all cases was more than the minimum reserve amount.

A company cannot deny its crews the option to take more than the planned fuel, but that does not mean they won't make it difficult to do so, or question the crews decision to do so.
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mcdu
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 10):
A company cannot deny its crews the option to take more than the planned fuel, but that does not mean they won't make it difficult to do so, or question the crews decision to do so

Actually a company can. The company can discipline, terminate, retrain etc all they want. In the US the labor unions and the airlines exist with a bit of a detente on adding fuel. However, what takes place in the US isn't what occurs elsewhere. Even the US carriers have internal fuel monitoring policies. The big difference is if a pilot can say he feels he needs a reasonable extra then there is no question. At Ryanair it seems that isn't allowed. If you are the capt and you are flying to an airport with a single runway and no alternate fuel what is the plan if the runway isn't useable or you know there is always holding (LHR)? While legal to dispatch with no extra it isn't always wise.

O'leary is a horrible man. I would hope the pilots at Ryanair can all find jobs elsewhere and no other pilots would go to work for him.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:56 pm

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 9):
There is a HUGE difference between what constitutes legal and what constitutes safe.

No it isn't. You're not legal if you're not safe.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
b78710
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:24 pm

Our captains tend too add a few hundred kg's because its what they've always done.

It's not necessary, so I can see why they try to cut it out
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 11):
Actually a company can. The company can discipline, terminate, retrain etc all they want.

Actually a company can't .. the day something like that were to be implemented regulatory bodies involved would have a long & hard look at that company. I can't speak for the US but in Europe the company should certainly be able to provide a documented case against the employee it goes after & i just don't see that happening based on fuel orders alone.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 11):
If you are the capt and you are flying to an airport with a single runway and no alternate fuel what is the plan if the runway isn't useable or you know there is always holding (LHR)? While legal to dispatch with no extra it isn't always wise

This mixes things up. Alternate & extra fuel are 2 very different things. Alternate fuel is what is planned/required to get to a suitable diversion airport if the planned destination airport is unavailable for whatever reason. Having an alternate airport included in your flightplan i believe is part of the legal requirements for flightplanning. Holding at destinations may be anticipated and hold fuel is planned and seperately shown on flightplans. Then there still is a legal minimum which must not be cut into unless you're facing a real emergency. The we have ''extra'' which is what the crew would order on top of the flightplan & this is apparently where crews feel uncomfortable with FR.

All of this story seems to be much to do about very little. With it being a low cost carrier i'm sure everyone is expected to watch the spending but if the situation really would be so bad i'd think a lot more crews would stand up and FR would be facing a lot more investigations which right now just isn't happening. FR weren't exactly damned by the Spanish authorities either for the fuel diversions which seems to be the most popular item to kick off this discussion lately .. there was more to those diversions then just FR's supposed fuel policies.
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mcdu
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:53 pm

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 14):
Having an alternate airport included in your flightplan i believe is part of the legal requirements for flightplanning.

Alternates are not always required. If weather is above certain minimums an alternate airport is not required depending on the area of dispatch and the airlines OPS SPECS. +45 mins of fuel is the general minimum. You will add any REQUIRED ALTERNATE fuel after the basic of DEST+45. Also, how the burn is calculated to the alternate will often be a very optimistic number in my experience.

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 14):
Holding at destinations may be anticipated and hold fuel is planned and seperately shown on flightplans

LHR is a good example. There is no where that says you will enter holding when landing at LHR. However, you will 99.9% of the time do at least one turn in a holding pattern. An airline can dispatch to LHR without hold fuel however it would be unwise to not have something above the min required of say +45 mins on no alternate required day. You do 15 mins in the hold or perhaps don't get the most optimum altitude or perhaps have to deviate around an enroute storm and your +45 mins of is now at a critical point. That is why most airlines will add some fuel above the minimum required.



I would not say this is something about nothing. Having a min fuel policy regardless of conditions is not a safe way to fly.
 
Sancho99504
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:51 am

Quoting b78710 (Reply 13):

How do you know it is unnecessary to carry 200-300kg extra fuel above the minimum requirement, which is an estimate? Forecast winds aloft and actual winds aloft can vary widely. If winds aloft are 15kts higher than predicted, then that extra fuel just became necessary. No matter what software is used to calculate flight plan and fuel minima, the flight crew generally has more experience and knowledge of how the aircraft will perform in a given mission. If crew wants 200kgs more than minima, they get it. Management is there to cut costs and provide shareholders the best return by any means necessary, pilots are there to help make that happen safely.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 11):
Actually a company can. The company can discipline, terminate, retrain etc all they want. In the US the labor unions and the airlines exist with a bit of a detente on adding fuel.

True, I should have worded my statement better. In my own experience unions, at least in the states, put a stop to things like this before they become an issue.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 11):
Even the US carriers have internal fuel monitoring policies. The big difference is if a pilot can say he feels he needs a reasonable extra then there is no question.

This is what I was driving at, I've yet to have my company or a dispatcher give me grief when a request for extra fuel was put in but it seems this isn't a universal paradigm.

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 12):
No it isn't. You're not legal if you're not safe.

The legal minimum isn't always what is safe. Better?  

[Edited 2013-01-01 17:25:24]
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Mir
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 1):
Also, why can't extra fuel left over from the flight be used for the next flight?

It can absolutely be used, but that doesn't change how much fuel the plane departs with on that next flight. If you have 2000lbs left over from the last flight, you'll just add 2000lbs less than you'd need for the next one - you end up leaving the gate with the same amount.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Ryanair said pilots were allowed to take as much fuel as they wished, which in all cases was more than the minimum reserve amount.

I'm sure they're allowed to. The question is what sort of disciplinary action they might face for making that decision.

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 12):
No it isn't. You're not legal if you're not safe.

Not so. There are things that are safe but not legal, and there are things that are legal but not safe. Fuel planning tends to go on the "legal but not safe" side.

-Mir
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Cactus105
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:02 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):

Ain't that the truth..   
Wherever you go, there you are.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:19 am

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 6):
as there is a legal minimum, why do the FR pilots consider this dangerously low?

Because the legal minimums do not take into considerations "habitual" delays at busy airports, for example.

Say the computed flight time between two airports is 55 minutes, but the destination airport is known for suddenly running delays of about 15 minutes. A "legal" pilot will plan his fuel load based on the 55-minute computed flight time, while a safe pilot will go with 70 minutes. In addition, both will take on reserves, of course, all part of the legal requirement.

Ryanair wants their pilots to be legal, not safe.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
The reason these anonymous contributors did not want their identities revealed is because there was no truth to their claims.

Of course it has nothing to do with Ryanair structuring the employment of its pilots in such a way as to be able to terminate them at any time for any reason without any possible repercussion. The kind of environment that encourages a healthy, open, face-to-face discussion over management policies, I'm sure...
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ltbewr
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:42 am

One has to wonder if the alleged Ryanair pilots are looking for some pay negotiation point or if they are not happy there so looking for something to get after the airline (and MOL) with, even if a borderline issue.
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:44 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):
I would not say this is something about nothing. Having a min fuel policy regardless of conditions is not a safe way to fly.

I'm not critizing fuelplanning itself with my remark but the way the media likes to jump on this and some in the general public now like to put it it's as if every FR flight nowadays is flying on vapors by the time it reaches it's destination.

The incident in Spain actually had the aircraft in question holding for 27 minutes and their fuel dipped below minimum when at their alternate they were given a longer route in. When you mention those 27 minutes people are surprised, it's not mentioned that much in the media. The fact another company (LAN) had the same issue with the weather at MAD seems to have been barely noticed/mentiond as much in the media. Considering all the circumstances that day things really don't seem that bad.

Anyway, i'm certainly not an FR fan but the way the media sometimes ''reports'' on matters such as that day in MAD with the diversions is just too oversimplified. Best to read up & form your own opinion 
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Dogbreath
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:30 am

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 16):
How do you know it is unnecessary to carry 200-300kg extra fuel above the minimum requirement, which is an estimate? Forecast winds aloft and actual winds aloft can vary widely. If winds aloft are 15kts higher than predicted, then that extra fuel just became necessary.

Contingency fuel of 5% is included in the fuel planning to cater for such reasons as, increased headwinds, level changes due turbulence, deviations around weather, etc. So no, 200-300kgs extra above minimum for such reasons is not a requirement.
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shufflemoomin
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:20 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Ok, starting the Ryanair bashing again I see.

It's odd how you post links to claim that the TV show had ulterior motives when your motives for disagreeing with it are simply because it's speaking out against Ryanair, like you always seem to do. The rumour of Ryanair forcing Captains to depart with less than ideal fuel loads is not a new one and likely the reason why the TV show exists in the first place. I think the staff who are speaking out against it are more likely to know what's going on within the company.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:36 am

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 14):
Actually a company can't .. the day something like that were to be implemented regulatory bodies involved would have a long & hard look at that company. I can't speak for the US but in Europe the company should certainly be able to provide a documented case against the employee it goes after & i just don't see that happening based on fuel orders alone

In Germany, that would be a "Abmahnung", a formal letter of caution and it would take 3 in a given period to be able to sack the employee. However, it seems that FR pilots do not enjoy the status "employees" have. They are something like sub contractors and as long as there are pilots on a waiting list to be hired FR can do what they please.

.
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Summa767
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 22):
The fact another company (LAN) had the same issue with the weather at MAD seems to have been barely noticed/mentiond as much in the media

Absolutely true. The TV report takes as true what the Spanish ATC controller says about the LAN emergency not being related to fuel but to an engine failure. Even the preliminary report -of which there will probably not be a follow up- aknowledge that the LAN did land low on fuel, and the Aviation herald had reported its fuel situation to be much worse than any of the Ryanairs -and furthermore, to have a more unbalanced fuel loading on each of the wings (what is strange that there is no investigation to see if the engine failure was a result of this or that it should have declared emergency much earlier than it did, just on its fuel situation alone).

There was also no mention in the programme whatsoever of what role ATC management on Spain had over these 4 emergencies that evening. The aviation herald has expressed its concern over Spanish ATC:
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=45b4bc8c&opt=0

Of course that Ryanair pilots speak out is welcome, and they should be able to decide to carry extra fuel. After the VLC incidents, it is now policy to have an extra 15 minutes of fuel when flying into airports such as MAD and BCN.
But the TV documentary is far from objective.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:00 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 25):
In Germany, that would be a "Abmahnung", a formal letter of caution and it would take 3 in a given period to be able to sack the employee. However, it seems that FR pilots do not enjoy the status "employees" have. They are something like sub contractors and as long as there are pilots on a waiting list to be hired FR can do what they please.

Yes, the vast majority of Ryanair's pilots are actually self-employed, working for Ryanair on a contract basis. The contracts are short-term, and are renewed on a regular basis.

Until the pilot pisses off management and the contract is suddenly not renewed.

This arrangement means that, with the exception of the single-digit percentage who are employed directly by Ryanair, their crew (both flight crew and cabin crew) have zero job security.

I really hope that at some time in the future, the market will pick up enough so that pilots/FAs can start telling Ryanair where to shove their employment policies.
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar!
 
emair
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:25 am

FR pilots don't wear hats.  

I see this video as another way to go against them, FR is a safe company!

Emair
  
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:59 am

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 7):
A good adage is: there is nothing so useless as the altitude above you, the runway behind you or the fuel in the truck.

Another good adage is: if you think safety is expensive, just wait until you have an accident

I also agree with Shufflemoomin (Reply 24). I'm surprised by the number of people here who seem to be questioning the pilots' motives. You have to wonder why this particular issue only appears to relate to FR. I've never heard it suggested that pilots with U2, 4U, DY or any other low cost airlines are put under similar pressure and the FR pilots who have spoken out are, at least potentially, jeopardising their future employment. It's difficult to understand why they would do that if their concerns weren't genuine.
 
1stspotter
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:45 pm

Quoting emair (Reply 28):
FR pilots don't wear hats.

The programme mentioned that the four pilots wear hats in the programme so they could not be recognized.
Suppose one of the pilots is bold. All bold pilots of Ryanair would be suspicious and could be one of the whistleblowers
 
emair
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:30 pm

Quoting 1stspotter (Reply 30):
The programme mentioned that the four pilots wear hats in the programme so they could not be recognized.
Suppose one of the pilots is bold. All bold pilots of Ryanair would be suspicious and could be one of the whistleblowers

I miss that part  
 
hooverman
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:10 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):
Ok, starting the Ryanair bashing again I see.

You sound like a parrot, you keep saying the same thing over and over.  
 
nuckleuz
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:33 pm

Tonight the second episode of the show on Ryanair was on tv.

Brandpunt Reporter - Ryanair pilots fly when they are sick
Under pressure from their management
Ryanair pilots fly when they're unfit to fly. Because of the working conditions at Ryanair they feel a pressure to fly when unfit. Under European rules this is illegal. The pilots speak out in Thursday night's edition of Brandpunt Reporter. Professional organisations are requesting an investigation into the corporate culture of the Irish airline company.
In Brandpunt Reporter three airline captains and one copilot tell their story. It turns out that Ryanair pilots are flying aeroplanes when sick or exhausted. "The corporate culture puts us in this position. It shouldn't be allowed to happen." A colleague adds: "If we don't fly, we don't get paid. So, if you're sick or unfit to fly or when you have personal problems, there will be consequences for your income."
Ryanair will not discuss things with professional organisations or trade unions. The legal status of most Ryanair pilots is weak because they are hired as contractors through a complicated construction. One pilot says: "It's exploitation. You lose your morale and your motivation. You feel like a slave." Most pilots are paid for flying hours only and have no healthcare insurance, no disability insurance and no pension scheme. A former Ryanair captain says: "It is obvious that they will fly when they are unfit."
The pilots admit to Brandpunt Reporter that they have flown when unfit. "There's too much at stake to take these kinds of risks, but we do it every day," one of them admits. Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association (ECA), says it's really hard for pilots to admit to this, because it is a punishable offense."
"This is shocking. I am deeply touched, because our professional honour is at stake," says Evert van Zwol of the Dutch Association of Commercial Pilots (VNV). Last week, both ECA and VNV have asked for an investigation into the fuel policy of the Irish prize fighter and now they want to broaden the investigation. Nico Voorbach: "I think the corporate culture of Ryanair should be investigated."
Evert van Zwol adds: "This culture is very bad for safety. The authorities should deal with it."
Both organisations feel the investigation should be conducted by the European Committee, the European airlines safety organization EASA and the airline inspections of the member states. ECA president Nico Voorbach says: "We urge them to do it as soon as possible. Yesterday rather than today."
In a statement Ryanair denies the allegations of the pilots and calls the reports from Reporter a new low in so called "investigating journalism."

The episode can be seen here:
http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/2013/afleveringen/03-01-2013

Grt,
Erik
 
flood
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting nuckleuz (Reply 33):
Tonight the second episode of the show on Ryanair was on tv.

Is there an 'international version' available again for part 2 which carries English subtitles? I can't seem to find it and don't see any settings to activate such.
 
nuckleuz
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:38 pm

Quoting flood (Reply 34):
Is there an 'international version' available again for part 2 which carries English subtitles?

No, this version isn't available at the moment. I assume it will become available in a few days. Off course, I will post the new link to the international version here.

Grt,
Erik
 
mffoda
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:07 pm

Ben Sandilands from the Plane Talking blog has this update regarding these fuel accusations...

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ayouts-begin/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

"In the UK The Sunday Times has published an apology to the low fare high fee airline Ryanair for false allegations made about its fuel policy and alleged safety breaches in Spanish airspace.

A summary of that apology reads as follows:

An article (headlined “Ryanair accused of 1,201 safety violations”, Travel, September 23, 2012) stated that, according to a leaked report from the Spanish air safety agency (AESA), Ryanair planes broke safety rules 1,201 times in Spanish airspace in the first six months of 2012. We now accept that this was incorrect; there was no such report and Ryanair did not commit 1,201 breaches of safety rules.

In the same article we also reported three emergency landings that arose due to bad weather diversions from Madrid to Valencia on July 26, 2012. The article described these flights as having insufficient fuel to remain in holding patterns and reported claims that Ryanair was routinely abusing the mayday protocol to jump landing queues. We accept that all these allegations were untrue and apologise to Ryanair for the damage caused by this article."
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:20 pm

Quoting 2008matt (Reply 6):
I see what you mean. In that case, as there is a legal minimum, why do the FR pilots consider this dangerously low?

Sadly, legal minimums are exactly that: minimums!

Unfortunately, many outfits now simplify legal minimum to just legal.

Ref: Fuel, rest, ...

Quoting KL911 (Reply 8):

"The reason these anonymous contributors did not want their identities revealed is because there was no truth to their claims."

Seems FR is now mind readers too...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:35 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 36):

I read the article in the newspaper this morning. The Sunday Times apologised on the first inside page and said it was paying substantial damages to the charity FR stated.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:42 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 38):
I read the article in the newspaper this morning.

You're kidding right?? You mean in an actual Paper and Print format? How Quaint...  
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RE: Ryanair Pilots Voice Concerns On Safety On Tv

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 27):
This arrangement means that, with the exception of the single-digit percentage who are employed directly by Ryanair, their crew (both flight crew and cabin crew) have zero job security.
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 24):
The rumour of Ryanair forcing Captains to depart with less than ideal fuel loads is not a new one

The fact is people want low fares. People want to fly at low prices. How do people think this is accomplished? By having the same pay scales of the legacies? By not (legally) cutting corners on fuel? I read all the complaints about FR but they exist and are successful because people wish to fly with them.

I have not flown with them, but we have one of their associated companies here, called VivaAerobús. A lot of people who did not fly and instead took the bus are using them. Their service is horrible, they are plagued with delays and the seating is cramped. But, hey, they sure are cheap. I choose not to fly with them, due to their horrible service and a lot of security concerns I have about them. But a lot of people do choose to gie them their money.

If you want low fares, well, suck it up. Don´t expect your journey to be like flying with AM or BA in Europe.

You get what you pay for. I wish people would get that when they fly to Beauvais, thinking they purchased a ticket to Paris.

[Edited 2013-01-06 15:16:54]

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