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longhauler
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 98):
So don't pound a bottle of liquor during a flight! "If" a situation had arisen, tell me how safe it would be to have an overweight drunk passenger stumbling down a single aisle aircraft? He would, again, endanger every single passenger on the flight.

Did you not read my method of restraint mentioned above? Which incidentally is what is normally done, and has been done. That passenger would not move, not endangering anyone nor aircraft.

Remember, no one is justifying his actions, nor the need for restraint, just how he was restrained. I would not be surprised if he was not charged, because of how he was handled. I am guessing that had he been restrained properly, and the airline/crew charged him (which they may have been reluctant to do, as a result of his handling), he would be in jail right now.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 99):
We also have to think think there may not have been a airport within close proximity to divert too.

Within spitting distance of YQX.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 100):
I would not be surprised if he was not charged, because of how he was handled.

Spare us the bleeding heart logic. The method of restraint will have no bearing on his assault of cabin crew and passengers.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 100):
Did you not read my method of restraint mentioned above? Which incidentally is what is normally done, and has been done. That passenger would not move, not endangering anyone nor aircraft.

No offense, but the method you recommend sounds just as "torturous," if not worse than what this passenger endured. On top of that, sounds even more unsafe in the event of an emergency. He would not be belted in and would be blocking the aisle and/or galley during an emergency.

The method that was used on this flight appears to be their best choice of restraint in this particular incident. Sure it isn't ideal and is a bit inhumane, but this is what had to be done to safeguard everyone else on the plane. He was not charged or arrested, so he should consider himself very lucky.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 91):
He will lose in court once passengers get subpoenaed and give their side of the story.

In a civilized world justice is not about revenge. So far there have not been any charges agaoinst that guy and that picture here is enough to get the lawyers sue the airline on his behalf.

Taping him up that way was gross negligence, no one knows about the medical condition of that guy, what if he had died on that seat from suffocation or heart failure? Certainly intoxication might then have contributed but for those who taped him up that would be bad news because they should have known that.

Common sense was the last thing that was applied here.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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longhauler
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:13 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 102):
No offense, but the method you recommend sounds just as "torturous," if not worse than what this passenger endured.

You really didn't read any previous comments, did you? I give up.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:26 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 104):
You really didn't read any previous comments, did you? I give up.

I thought I did. This?

Quoting longhauler (Reply 79):
The best way to restrain someone on an airplane is the way I have seen it done, once. Tie his hands behind his back with restraining ties. Tie his feet together. Behind his back, join the two ties with another tie and cinch it tight.

Place a blanket on the floor, place him on the floor on his side on the blanket, put a pillow under his head. This keeps his breathing clear, should he vomit.

Sounds pretty rough.

Either way, I agree, that in a perfect situation, this is not the best or most humane way to restrain someone, but this was in no way a normal circumstance. The crew and other passengers saw this as the best method to restrain this man and from stopping the situation from escalating more than it already had.
 
sweair
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:06 pm

Ok the mouth and vomit is a question to ask but he deserved being tied up. What other options is there? You could knock him out cold I guess..

I sat next to a drunk and I did not feel very comfortable, he started acting up and got loud, the police in Dubai escorted him off the plane  

Violence is a last resort, but when people like these get to a threat can a passenger deal with it? In my case he kicked the over wing exit door, I was close to doing something violent to stop him but others stepped in. Can you be charged with assault? If a passenger threatens the safety, what are the rules?

Restraining a violent drunk might end up in a broken arm etc..
 
Viscount724
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 100):
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 99):
We also have to think think there may not have been a airport within close proximity to divert too.

Within spitting distance of YQX.

Goose Bay (YYR) probably closer on that route, and YYR has had recent experience with diversions due to unruly passengers in the 2012 and 2010 incidents below, coincidentally both involving Russian passengers on DL flights SVO-JFK.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...l-russians-diverted-plane-215.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...rplane-diversion-labrador-415.html
 
ltbewr
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:40 am

One question I have is why didn't the F/A's stop this person from consuming his duty-free booze? Perhaps they just didn't see it, maybe they feared a confrontation but not allowing such drinking of alcohol is supposed to be part of their duties. I hope the airline does an investigation of that as perhaps if the person had their duty-free booze removed early on, it would have prevented this whole situation.
 
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zkokq
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:23 am

Every one keeps saying the what's ifs.

Well what about if this grub has some sort of disease that could be spread through saliva as he spat on people? It's to late for them. The safety for many, is better than the safety of one person as far as I am concerned. He shouldn't have been a wank. He should be counting his lucky stars they didn't strap him in a dirty lavatory and close the door for the smell to fester.
 
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mariner
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:25 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 109):
Well what about if this grub has some sort of disease that could be spread through saliva as he spat on people?

Twenty years ago, it was commonly believed that AIDS was transmitted by spit.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Superfly
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:40 am

This is awesome!
One of the best cabin view shots ever.
I just hope there was an Airliners.net member on-board because I'd love to read that trip report.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AR385
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:17 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 108):
One question I have is why didn't the F/A's stop this person from consuming his duty-free booze?

About 15 years ago, back when I was young and stupid (ok, so I may still be stupid, but not young) a friend of mine and I boarded an SAS 763 EWR-OSL. Before the flight we went and bought two bottles of hard liquor at EWR´s duty free. We proceeded to consume them on board, and while the FAs noticed and we were given a couple of stern warnings, we kept on drinking merrily until the breakfast service. They even provided us with cups with ice.

Times may have changed, but your question is an interesting one. I suppose that if you are not obnoxious and can hold your liquor they´ll leave you alone. I don´t condone this, nor am I promoting ways to get away with drinking your liquor on board. But it happens.

And please, no flame fest, I´m sharing this anecdote for purposes of the discussion, I´m not really looking to be lectured.
 
Unflug
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:24 am

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 91):
He will lose in court once passengers get subpoenaed and give their side of the story.

Well: Prosecutors declined to charge him for what he did because too many passengers were reluctant to discuss his outburst with authorities, the New York Post reported.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:22 am

Will a drunk distrupt an Emergency evacuation......If it will.....Then it can be serious.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 101):

Spare us the bleeding heart logic. The method of restraint will have no bearing on his assault of cabin crew and passengers.

You obviously know nothing about criminal law and procedure. Suspects who are abused / wrongly treated usually escape conviction. As in this case, where the manner of restraint was likely a factor in the NY cops concluding that a conviction was unlikely.

So the end result is that the treatment that so many in this thread are braying in support of actually results in the abusive/disruptive pax walking away. If he'd been restrained properly, he'd be in custody facing charges.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
sweair
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:59 am

Wouldn´t it be better if you could pick up your duty free booze on arrival on your destination, saves weight and lessens incidents like this?
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:04 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 105):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 79):
The best way to restrain someone on an airplane is the way I have seen it done, once. Tie his hands behind his back with restraining ties. Tie his feet together. Behind his back, join the two ties with another tie and cinch it tight.

Place a blanket on the floor, place him on the floor on his side on the blanket, put a pillow under his head. This keeps his breathing clear, should he vomit.

Sounds pretty rough.

It's a standard restraint procedure where immobilization is required which is approved by relevant authorities and used by many, many law enforcement agencies.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
toobz
Posts: 871
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:38 pm

After reading these comments...it's clear that people from Europe and the US have two different views on torture lol
Please don't flame me it's an observation for living in the States for nearly 20 years. Everybody in the US is always worried about the comfort of somebody that has done something wrong. Taping someone's mouth like that wouldn't most likely happen on UA or DL. However in Europe people aren't too concerned that some idiot who couldn't keep himself from spitting at people and behaving like a child gets his mouth taped and restrained. I wasn't on the flight but I say he's lucky to just have gotten taped to his seat. Spitting on someone could b considered assault in the US.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:01 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 118):
Spitting on someone could b considered assault in the US.

Here as well, definately it is an insult. But the one insulted cannot punish. If someone shows you the finger on the road, even stopping that person is a crime. That is what police is for and the justice system takes care of the punishment. This picture here shows instant punishment.

The taping of the body is too much already, for protection against spitting, they have an emergency kit on board which should have some mouth protection That would have done the job.

The laws in the US and Canada have been changed after 9/11 to cope with terrorists. With the absence of terrorists, the carriers and crews use these laws against drunkards which is totally inappropriate.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting Unflug (Reply 113):
Well: Prosecutors declined to charge him for what he did because too many passengers were reluctant to discuss his outburst with authorities, the New York Post reported.

Correct, which is why I included the word subpoena. The passengers would be required by law to give their side of the story, which I believe would not bode well in court for the drunk passenger.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:03 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 120):
The passengers would be required by law to give their side of the

Yup, For that you need the passengers adresses, many stay only one day at the first hotel. By the time the system is through with that, many of the Europeans are back home. Serving a subpoena in Europe, does one even have to honor that? Who pays for the expenses? OK, one has surrendered his privacy rights by forcingly giving the adress detaills to ESTA, normally the airline would not be allowed to surrender your adress, data protection laws.

Don't shoot with cannons on sparrows.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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comairguycvg
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:28 pm

I'm not getting the view out the window. If that's the wing, it looks as if it's bent up pretty substantialy to be at an angel like that.
Worked at: CV62, RJTA, KNLC, CV63, KNFL, OKAJ, KTRI, CV67, KMGE, KNQX, KVPS, KPIT, KCVG, KTYS, KATL
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 841
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:55 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 121):
Yup, For that you need the passengers adresses, many stay only one day at the first hotel. By the time the system is through with that, many of the Europeans are back home. Serving a subpoena in Europe, does one even have to honor that? Who pays for the expenses? OK, one has surrendered his privacy rights by forcingly giving the adress detaills to ESTA, normally the airline would not be allowed to surrender your adress, data protection laws.

Don't shoot with cannons on sparrows.

Completely right, which is why the NY prosecutors decided not to press charges and a civil case has no legs to stand on. Far too many resources would've been delegated to this case to make the prosecution worthwhile. This does not diminish what the drunk passenger did on this flight though.
 
coachclass
Posts: 365
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 121):
Don't shoot with cannons on sparrows.



Maybe the incident wasn't as bad a people alleged and they didn't want to expose their over-reaction? While the passengers may be reluctant to testify, the flight crew could easily and should be called to testify and the airline would certainly pay their expenses. In comparison, remember when a fellow was arrested in California for low hanging pj bottoms before the plane took off?

Now the question is, how is this fellow going to get home? Will Icelandair let him back on one of their planes???
 
wb556
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:30 pm

It can't have been that bad if he wasn't charged. Maybe he had a mental health issue or bad reaction to medication in combination with alcohol?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 116):
Wouldn´t it be better if you could pick up your duty free booze on arrival on your destination, saves weight and lessens incidents like this?

There are quite a few arrivals duty free shops at various airports now. They were introduced at ZRH and GVA a couple of years ago. At GVA you basically have to walk through the middle of it just before you reach the baggage claim area.
 
MD-90
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:19 pm

So what do you do if you tie a drunk up like that and he has to pee?   
 
s5daw
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 8:15 am

RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:26 am

Quoting comairguycvg (Reply 122):
I'm not getting the view out the window. If that's the wing, it looks as if it's bent up pretty substantialy to be at an angel like that.

I thought that was the horizon. But it also doesn't make sense that they would still be climbing out, right?
 
Superfly
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:58 am

This photo is database quality. It should be added to the database.
What is the registration of this aircraft?
Bring back the Concorde
 
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fca767
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:37 am

Surely that daily mail pic isn't the aircraft in the Aerial Photo, how can the daily mail claim it to be this and have no name of the original owner.
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1810
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 123):
which is why the NY prosecutors decided not to press charges

And you "know" this how? Did the police consult a prosecutor? If they did, were you there for the discussion?

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 123):
a civil case has no legs to stand on

Why? Brought by whom? Against whom?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
eaa3
Posts: 955
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:53 pm

According to Icelandic media Icelandair is going to press charges in Icelandic court.
 
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enilria
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:16 pm

Wow, Drew Carey continues his slide.  
 
airways1
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 3:05 am

RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:49 pm

At least they let him keep his glasses on.
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 132):
According to Icelandic media Icelandair is going to press charges in Icelandic court.

Unsurprising. Assuming the incident occurred in international airspace, the country of registration has primary jurisdiction under the Tokyo Convention.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:35 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 16):
Would he able to sue Icelandair? It looks like he has reasons to!

Anyone has the right to sue anyone else for any reason.Winning this lawsuit is another matter. Why would you even have that question?
 
CaptCufflinks
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:24 am

RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:24 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):
It clearly states that while restraint may be necessary, at no time may the person be attached to the aircraft in any way.

Does a drinks trolley constitute a part of the aircraft? Tie him to one with the brakes off then ask the captain for a couple of steep climbs.   

Stuff like this really does make me feel sorry for the passengers on the aircraft that had to deal with his stupidity.
 
tardis
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:57 am

RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:18 pm

Quoting CaptCufflinks (Reply 137):
Stuff like this really does make me feel sorry for the passengers on the aircraft that had to deal with his stupidity.

Agreed, individuals need to be responsible for themselves, and not inflict their irresponsibility upon others.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 129):
This photo is database quality. It should be added to the database.
What is the registration of this aircraft?

Hey, why not? We could have a whole new category:

Flight Decks
Cabin Views
Aicraft Tail Wings / Winglets
Aircraft Nose Close-ups
Tied-up Rowdy Passenger Views
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
max999
Topic Author
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:25 pm

And now of course, there's the video to accompany this episode.

http://gothamist.com/2013/01/09/vide...s_see_the_unruly_icelandair_pa.php
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:19 am

Break the rules.....Endanger others.....face the music......
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:35 pm

is it me or does anyone else realize the really crappy leg room?  
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Drunk Passenger Tied Up With Tape (Pic)

Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:42 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 140):
And now of course, there's the video to accompany this episode.

http://gothamist.com/2013/01/09/vide...a.php

Oh dear, that was truly pitiful viewing. I note that the article also says he was treated for alcohol poisoning, so he must have drunk a genuinely heroic amount. Interesting to hear the following from family:

Quote:

A relative told the Post, "Gudmundur likes to drink, but his behavior has the family scratching their heads. He isn't a violent person. This was not normal behavior for him. I hope he is OK."

One has to wonder what on earth pushed him over the edge like this.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈

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