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TWA902fly
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AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:26 am

As far as I see, this means the SJU hub is gone.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/09/aa-sju-apr13/

only international route remaining will be SJU-CCS, as well as some SJU-mainland services. (ORD, DFW, MIA, JFK).

SJU is now officially a spoke on the AA system.

'902

[Edited 2013-01-09 01:27:39]
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
braniffmsy
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:35 am

Sad. There is a lot more news to come this week from the AA home front .
 
bastew
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:29 am

Slightly off topic but can anyone answer this question for me.....is a MIA-SJU flight considered 'domestic'. Is there any passport control on arrival into PR from the USA?

I just ask as I am flying MIA-SJU and am hoping to head straight back to MIA on the same aircraft once it is turned around. Obviously I would be cutting it fine if there are passport formalities etc to complete.
 
SCL767
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:32 am

Quoting bastew (Reply 2):

Slightly off topic but can anyone answer this question for me.....is a MIA-SJU flight considered 'domestic'. Is there any passport control on arrival into PR from the USA?

Yes, it is a domestic flight and you will not need to pass through passport control.
 
ltbewr
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:44 am

Does this include operations by AA-Eagle ? Who is going to replace this service? Wasn't many of these services operated by ATR-42's?
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:49 am

The AA (mainline) hub closed a few years ago. It was quite surprising that they kept the Eagle hub largely intact after they lost so much mainland connecting feed for the flights, but a few markets like DOM and EIS cannot be served from a mainland hub and many of the outer Caribbean islands still have decent O&D to SJU. However, the Eagle SJU closure was announced some time ago in conjunction with the final round of ATR retirements. There was talk that AA may be trying to partner with a local carrier at SJU under the new Eagle scheme, hence the long delay in formally cutting these flights. However, all markets are or will be linked to MIA, except for the aforementioned DOM/EIS that cannot accommodate jet service to the mainland. Perhaps there will be simply nothing left at SJU except the JFK/MIA/DFW/ORD and CCS. I'm guessing they are only keeping SJU-CCS because the Venezuelan government will not allow the authority to be transferred, and has not given any new ones for going on 6 or 7 years now
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bastew
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:04 pm

Thanks SCL767, much appreciated info!
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:29 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
Wasn't many of these services operated by ATR-42's?

they were ATR-72's the -42's left a long time ago.
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:44 pm

I think these beyond SJU routes were propping up things like JFK and ORD--I'd anticipate some further US-SJU trimming as well.
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commavia
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:50 pm

This is what we've already known for months.

The reasons are well known and have been thoroughly discussed: the SJU hub is now, unlike 25+ years ago when it first opened, near entirely superfluous and AA's enormous and growing fortress hub at MIA is now capable of serving virtually all the same traffic flows at SJU with higher yields. There is only a very small segment of the traffic previously handled by the SJU hub that cannot be handled via MIA due to operational reasons (again, EIS and DOM). That's not enough to justify a hub.

It makes sense for AA to reduce SJU to a spoke served from the hubs, plus I suppose CCS just because it's apparently high-yielding, limited-competition, and in a limited-entry market.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:51 pm

Gotta keep that CCS tough....that CCS authority is far too valuable....it is same plane MIA-SJU-CCS?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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enilria
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:06 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):
Yes, it is a domestic flight and you will not need to pass through passport control.

You do have to fill out a form if memory serves and there is plant/animal inspection I think.
 
skgsjulax
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:07 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
Who is going to replace this service?

Cape Air, Seaborne, LIAT, and for the larger capacity routes, JetBlue.
The first two are expanding their presence at SJU to fill in the void by the shutdown of AE/Executive

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
'd anticipate some further US-SJU trimming as well.

That is, indeed, very likely. Particularly during the low season.
Omnium curiositatum explorator
 
skgsjulax
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:18 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
You do have to fill out a form if memory serves and there is plant/animal inspection I think.

If you are flying to/from the "mainland" United States, there are no form requirements whatsoever.
Like everyone you will need to show proper ID, but for US citizens and residents, that ID can be your driver's license.
If you are arriving directly from a non-US location you will have to clear US Customs and Immigration at SJU.

Yes, departing (or connecting) to the "mainland" United States from SJU requires an additional X-ray inspection of all carry-on luggage by the US Department of Agriculture.
Omnium curiositatum explorator
 
123
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:04 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):

You do have to fill out a form if memory serves and there is plant/animal inspection I think.

Yes as I recall, that´s what you do, similar as from HNL->Mainland USA, you pass customs (not immigration) control prior to even checking your luggage in for the flight.

Proper ID's are needed for any flight, regardless of origin-destination.
 
plateman
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:11 pm

Quoting 123 (Reply 14):
Yes as I recall, that´s what you do, similar as from HNL->Mainland USA, you pass customs (not immigration) control prior to even checking your luggage in for the flight.

It is not customs, but USDA (Agricultural) to make sure you are not taking plants/livestock etc off the island. They put a little green sticker on all your bags which check-in looks for before tagging your bags
"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:20 pm

Quoting braniffmsy (Reply 1):
Sad. There is a lot more news to come this week from the AA home front .

Hummmmmm. What could this be?
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 5):
but a few markets like DOM and EIS cannot be served from a mainland hub

Why can't DOM be served from MIA? Wouldn't a CR7 be able to do it? IIRC, FX flies (or did fly) a 727 into there.

Is AA completely discontinuing DOM then? I assume SLU is gone too then.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
Why can't DOM be served from MIA? Wouldn't a CR7 be able to do it? IIRC, FX flies (or did fly) a 727 into there.

Restrictions flying out of DOM wouldnt allow non stop to MIA, Runway is only 5760 ft, Not sure if the CRJ 700 can do though... BTW it was Amerijet not Fedex and I believe they flew out empty and to SJU instead of flying back nonstop.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...d=c5c7a9d00f4ee054624652c2f45c1532

For some reason I cant get the photo to link properly...
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:48 pm

I've flown into DOM on LIAT and it's quite a ride. It seems like you are literally flying in a trench on the downwind leg.

SNA is 5701 feet and 737-700s and 757s can fly non-stop to either the east coast or Hawaii without weight restrictions. Why couldn't even a 738 make that? DOM-MIA is certainly much shorter than 2500 miles.

Of course GOL flies 738s out of much shorter runways in Brazil.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 5):
I'm guessing they are only keeping SJU-CCS because the Venezuelan government will not allow the authority to be transferred, and has not given any new ones for going on 6 or 7 years now

The same reason AA keeps DFW-CCS once per week; AA doesn't want to give up precious frequencies to Venezuela.
I'd think SJU-CCS-SJU may be timed to allow connections to/from whichever U.S.A. mainland destinations AA keeps from SJU.

Not sure if MIA-EIS or MIA-DOM could be flown with AA RJs (range and runway lenght) but the routing may be over the islands so for that part RJs may be OK.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:07 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 19):

Well you mentioned the CRJ 700 so I was basing my response of what limited knowledge I knew about that aircraft. MIA-DOM is 1415 miles according to gcmap, it might be doable. But would operate with significant restrictions...

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 19):
SNA is 5701 feet and 737-700s and 757s can fly non-stop to either the east coast or Hawaii without weight restrictions.

The 737-700 sure, but not the 757 for sure

[Edited 2013-01-09 08:12:05]
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 21):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 19):
SNA is 5701 feet and 737-700s and 757s can fly non-stop to either the east coast or Hawaii without weight restrictions.

The 737-700 sure, but not the 757 for sure

The 757 can easily do it. AA and TW flew 757s SNA-JFK with no trouble or restrictions at all. Likewise, DL uses 757s SNA-ATL.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:47 pm

This just shows how important MIA has become to AA. When AA went into expansion mode in the 80s, a lot of connecting traffic for Florida went through BNA and RDU.

After AA took control of the old EA hub at MIA, it became apparent that some of the connecting traffic for Florida cities that went through BNA and RDU could be handled by MIA, while other flights were shifted to the other hubs.

Now, MIA handles pretty much most of the Caribbean traffic.

One question. Was SJU ever an F/A base? I know that it was never a pilot base.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):

This is what we've already known for months.

  

Anyone think AA could still support a 1x weekly LAX-SJU flight?
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:52 pm

Looking at the route map on aa.com, it indicates that there are Caribbean destinations other than EIS and DOM still being served by Eagle out of SJU (most of which are also served out of MIA). These are places like PUJ, STX, SDQ, STI, PTP, ANU, and FDF. When are these being dropped by Executive/American Eagle? After the winter season? Or is the route map just not up to date?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 20):
The same reason AA keeps DFW-CCS once per week

AA has requested to increase frequency on this one and has been denied.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
klwright69
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:01 pm

I remember in the early 90's I flew SJU-AUA. When did that route go? It was like a 1.5 hour flight and they served a hot breakfast. Amazing. How times have changed.
 
DualQual
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 19):

It's not just the runway length. I don't have any charts for either DOM/EIS but terrain clearance is another factor. If there is an obstruction that requires a high climb gradient to clear (and remember you have to plan it as an engine out climb) you might take a big weight penalty. So either not enough gas to go nonstop or not enough stuff to make money.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:14 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 28):
It's not just the runway length. I don't have any charts for either DOM/EIS but terrain clearance is another factor. If there is an obstruction that requires a high climb gradient to clear (and remember you have to plan it as an engine out climb) you might take a big weight penalty. So either not enough gas to go nonstop or not enough stuff to make money.

Thanks. Yes I'm familiar with that. I've flown into DOM. The departure over the water so no terrain. Not sure if they ever take off the other direction. It would be quite sporting. The approach literally seemed like it was in a trench in the side of a hill. It seemed like a one-way runway (like TVL).
 
hrc773
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 23):
One question. Was SJU ever an F/A base? I know that it was never a pilot base.

The answer is yes. AA had a F/A base in SJU. It closed in the early 90's, if I remember correctly.
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
You do have to fill out a form if memory serves and there is plant/animal inspection I think.

Not arriving or departing mainland flights. You just place your bags through the USDA inspection machine (just like HNL), and viola. If you're just doing a turn, or mileage run, this wouldn't even come into play because you don't have to leave the secure area.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 20):
The same reason AA keeps DFW-CCS once per week; AA doesn't want to give up precious frequencies to Venezuela.
I'd think SJU-CCS-SJU may be timed to allow connections to/from whichever U.S.A. mainland destinations AA keeps from SJU.

Holding onto frequencies is one reason, but not the sole reason. SJU-CCS does very well. It has healthy O+D, but most of all, it funnels a large amount of connecting traffic to places like MIA,JFK,DFW, and ORD. AA has wanted to increase service to the ever growing Venezuelan market, but cannot due to the government denying any request. Any extra capacity that cannot be placed on non-stops, gets routed through SJU.
"The low fares airline."
 
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turk223
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:57 pm

Always have to reminisce about the SJU hub when I read these posts; I worked with AA in BGI in the late 80s just when the SJU hub was in its heyday... Over the years, I remember the follwing cities were served mainline:
BOS
BDL
JFK
EWR
PHL
BWI
IAD
RDU
BNA
ATL
MCO
TPA
MIA
ORD
DFW
POP
SDQ
STT
STX
ANU
SXM
UVF
BGI
GND
POS
AUA
CCS

And Eagle:
SDQ
STI
PUJ
STT
STX
EIS
ANU
AXA
SKB
PTP
DOM
FDF
SLU
CIW
GND
BGI
POS
MAZ
PSE
PAP

It was a pretty impressive operation! I do recall, however, that we had two A300s daily and more often than not it would leave with less than 30 passengers! Barbadians just seemed to hate the SJU immigration and customs procedures and preferred non-stops to MIA and JFK...

Did I miss any cities?
 
777STL
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:11 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 24):
Anyone think AA could still support a 1x weekly LAX-SJU flight?

I do. IIRC, TW actually operated this route shortly before the acquisition by AA.
PHX based
 
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yyz717
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting turk223 (Reply 32):
Did I miss any cities?

AA briefly flew SJU-YYZ in the late 80's (4x weekly 722 service).
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
miaskies
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 33):
I do. IIRC, TW actually operated this route shortly before the acquisition by AA.

AA operated this route as well, I believe up until early last year. 763 at first followed by 752.
Crosscheck Complete :)
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting turk223 (Reply 32):
Did I miss any cities?

Years ago Eagle served VIJ (an unpaved runway!) with CASA 212s, and more recently NEV with ATRs.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
2travel2know2
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:52 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 24):
Anyone think AA could still support a 1x weekly LAX-SJU flight?

Perhaps if timed to fly passengers to/from cruises.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 31):
AA has wanted to increase service to the ever growing Venezuelan market, but cannot due to the government denying any request. Any extra capacity that cannot be placed on non-stops, gets routed through SJU.

So technically, AA could upgrade SJU-CCS to a wide-body if it wanted but can't add additional frequencies?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
trintocan
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:59 pm

Quoting turk223 (Reply 32):
Did I miss any cities?

Eagle served TAB between 1995 and 2000 and also flew to SVD (I'm unsure of the dates it flew there). On some occasions the TAB flights operated to SJU via SVD.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 37):
So technically, AA could upgrade SJU-CCS to a wide-body if it wanted but can't add additional frequencies?

AA does tweak MIA-CCS around with 738s, 757s, and 763s. Depending on season and demand. SJU-CCS has been 738 for a while now, but before that a 757. Logistically - they would have to route an aircraft from the mainland, so basically a 757 if it were to be up-gauged.

LAX-SJU was a 763, then 757. Towards the end it was just a weekend 757 service. Catering just as you said, to cruise ship traffic. Wonder with AA's lower operating cost now, would they bring it back, even if weekend only.
"The low fares airline."
 
olddominion727
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:13 pm

this is so sad. it's like watching a loved-one dying and your constantly pray for them, but the end is imminent. I think AA will be an airline of the past. I am so sad to say that too. they used to be such a maverick. i have been in the advantage program 25 years... and my loyalties have all but switched to UA/DL depending on the route.
 
skgsjulax
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:05 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 39):

LAX-SJU was a 763, then 757. Towards the end it was just a weekend 757 service. Catering just as you said, to cruise ship traffic. Wonder with AA's lower operating cost now, would they bring it back, even if weekend only.

Strangely, there is very little two-way traffic to support this route. The overnight eastbound was frequently completely full, but the SJU-LAX flight wasn't (this is from my experience, I don't have access to airline data). And with the multitude of MIA and ATL connections, it appears that the route just wasn't worth it to AA (not to mention the little tiff that the Island government got into with AA in the early days of the bankruptcy). I would love it if it came back (see username!) but I think it's a thing of the past. I am glad it was there when my family and I were commuting back-and-forth.
Omnium curiositatum explorator
 
787kq
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:25 pm

There used to be so much traffic between San Juan and the other islands, going back to the days of Caribair, Prinair, etc. and on decent sized aircraft. Now there is no real American intra-Caribbean carrier, though perhaps one will get established. For many years, STT - SJU was one the the premier commuter routes in the world, something now lost. When prices for the 20 minute hop to between the two became close to the price of flying to Miami, that traffic all vanished and the O&D traffic between the two is a fraction of what it used to be.

If Cape Air is the only option, I will not connect in San Juan.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Thread starter):
SJU is now officially a spoke on the AA system.

I can just see the sympathy card in the mail right now.

To SJU,

You have our deepest condolences.

Signed SJC.
 
PRAirbus
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:59 pm

Puerto Rico has been a USA territory since 1898; all SJU-USA flights are domestic; no Customs; no passport needed. AA mainline added seasonal extra frequencies from SJU to MIA/JFK/DFW/ORD this past winter, scheduled gets trimmed again and then more flights for high season.
 
planedudea380
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:15 am

I keep wondering when will the fall in SJU end... will it see the light of day again? I know B6 is constantly growing, but the connection to the caribbean and the international market seems to be going nowhere. For some time VS flew for the same reasons BA did (holidays and vacationers). VS left, BA is next in line and I'm saddened to see IB also forced to leave SJU after so many years.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:42 am

Quoting 787Kq (Reply 42):
For many years, STT - SJU was one the the premier commuter routes in the world, something now lost. When prices for the 20 minute hop to between the two became close to the price of flying to Miami, that traffic all vanished and the O&D traffic between the two is a fraction of what it used to be.

Doesn't B6 fly STTSJU now?
 
ipodguy7
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RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:44 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 44):

Puerto Rico has been a USA territory since 1898; all SJU-USA flights are domestic; no Customs; no passport needed.

I can 100% confirm this, just today I flew BNA-MIA-SJU with my family, absolutely no forms, customs or anything, just like a domestic flight. Cheers
AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/B6/AS/AC/FI/NY/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ/JL
 
OB1504
Posts: 3982
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
Why can't DOM be served from MIA? Wouldn't a CR7 be able to do it? IIRC, FX flies (or did fly) a 727 into there.

But AA/MQ doesn't fly the CR7 into MIA to begin with, and I doubt they'd add it just for one destination. Maybe one of the new A319s coming in next year would be more likely, since they were ordered specifically for the more challenging destinations in terms of aircraft performance.

Quoting planedudea380 (Reply 45):
Doesn't B6 fly STTSJU now?

Perhaps B6 will continue to fill the void left by AA? In terms of product offerings, it would certainly be an upgrade for travelers.
 
wahdadli
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 am

RE: AA Cancels 8 More SJU Routes - Hub Closed.

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:29 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 29):

Quoting DualQual (Reply 28):
It's not just the runway length. I don't have any charts for either DOM/EIS but terrain clearance is another factor. If there is an obstruction that requires a high climb gradient to clear (and remember you have to plan it as an engine out climb) you might take a big weight penalty. So either not enough gas to go nonstop or not enough stuff to make money.

Thanks. Yes I'm familiar with that. I've flown into DOM. The departure over the water so no terrain. Not sure if they ever take off the other direction. It would be quite sporting. The approach literally seemed like it was in a trench in the side of a hill. It seemed like a one-way runway (like TVL).






Yes terrain is an issue. Whilst I have never seen a flt depart towards the mountain flts land towards the mountains (I arrived there in both directions).

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