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LAXintl
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:47 pm

As the industry split grows between carriers that opt for ultra-luxurious first class cabins, while others ditch the concept entirely and look to provide a top end business class cabin instead, looks like Emirates is considering joining the list of airlines scrapping F class on some of its A380s.

With first class cabins often going empty, or at discount rates typical of business class fares, according to Thierry Antinori, EVP of passenger sales at Emirates, "We are currently looking at how we can fit out some A380s with only two classes," EK is "unhappy with load factors in First Class".

Story:
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1357369533.html

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PHX787
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:51 pm

Sure ifs f class and you gotta pay in order to play, more or less, but its all about prices. If EK is charging extravagant prices for their F class less people will fly. Plain and simple.
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VCy
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:09 pm

I think it would be nice to see a premium economy cabin with Emirates! Surely many people can afford a little bit more than an economy class ticket... Plus that extra legroom would be amazing on their really long flights to the Americas and Oceania  
 
MaverickM11
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
With first class cabins often going empty, or at discount rates typical of business class fares, according to Thierry Antinori, EVP of passenger sales at Emirates, "We are currently looking at how we can fit out some A380s with only two classes," EK is "unhappy with load factors in First Class".

Well, well, well....color me unsurprised. That shower isn't generating revenue?  
I don't take responsibility at all
 
flyguy89
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
As the industry split grows between carriers that opt for ultra-luxurious first class cabins, while others ditch the concept entirely and look to provide a top end business class cabin instead, looks like Emirates is considering joining the list of airlines scrapping F class on some of its A380s.

I see it all as cyclical really. What F used to be is now Business Class, and what Business Class used to be is now Premium Y. When international Business Class originally started it was pretty much the same as Premium Y until TWA and other carriers started upgrading the seating from Y seats with more legroom to recliner premium-style seats.
 
pnwtraveler
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
uoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
With first class cabins often going empty, or at discount rates typical of business class fares, according to Thierry Antinori, EVP of passenger sales at Emirates, "We are currently looking at how we can fit out some A380s with only two classes," EK is "unhappy with load factors in First Class".

Well, well, well....color me unsurprised. That shower isn't generating revenue?  

Now if EK was more like Ryanair they would put in a coin-op shower. That like those in campgrounds is timed to run out just when you get all soapy so you have to put in more money to rinse.  
 
JAAlbert
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:24 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
Well, well, well....color me unsurprised. That shower isn't generating revenue?

Hah!

Maybe its just sour grapes for me (usually sitting in the cattle class) but some of the first class products seem to me just so over the top they become vanity products. A flat bed is great, comfortable seats and work space fine, but showers and private mini-suites seem ridiculous to me. Many international flights are less than 11 hours and most of the flat bed business class offerings are more than adequate even for ultra long haul.

I flew on one of Continental's flat bed 757s a few years back - what did they call it Business/First or something? The seat was wildly comfortable, though considered modest in comparison to other airlines' offerings. It was one of the nicest flights I've ever flown on. Why pay the extra $5,000 - $10,000 more for a first class seat?
 
UALWN
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:25 pm

Could we change the tittle of the thread to something like "EK could remove F from some A380s"? Now it looks like it's going to be removed from all of them.
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qf002
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:29 pm

I don't see this is a suggestion to remove F in existing planes, but rather to take some without F in future.

I think it was inevitable given how many they are taking.
 
lhcvg
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:29 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Sure ifs f class and you gotta pay in order to play, more or less, but its all about prices. If EK is charging extravagant prices for their F class less people will fly. Plain and simple.

In all fairness, that's not the whole story for global F products. There are some contracts/travel rules that stipulate "no F" beyond just max spend limits ("we won't spend more than $x"). So in some instances F is not allowed to be booked period, barring an exception such as an equal fare or an upgrade comped to an elite pax. Likewise, UA sometimes charges relatively cheap GF prices, but it's not as if people are banging down their doors for that cheapie F seat either.
 
flyyul
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:30 pm

Somebody tell Lufthansa the same thing. I wonder how much wasted revenue potential exists on their A330/A340 fleet.
 
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LAXintl
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:31 pm

I think it becoming clear that like its other fleet types the A380 will get more than a single cabin version.

With EK having such a diverse network, a one cabin fits all concept does not work in all markets.

I actually suspect EK could probably have multiple A380 versions eventually if they end up operating 100+ frames.

I can certainly see a high density 2 class version for routes to places like India that see very high component of economy class ethnic flow. I could also see versions with smaller F & C cabins (current is 14F+76C), and maybe even a version with added premium business seats (like 100 C class) for top heavy markets like LHR.
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Stitch
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Emirates Could Remove First Class from some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:35 pm

I was under the impression EK always planned to operate A380s in a two-class configuration of Business and Economy Classes.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
With EK having such a diverse network, a one cabin fits all concept does not work in all markets.

  

I can see LHR needing First Class, but does MAN?
 
ekgold
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 6):
Maybe its just sour grapes for me (usually sitting in the cattle class) but some of the first class products seem to me just so over the top they become vanity products. A flat bed is great, comfortable seats and work space fine, but showers and private mini-suites seem ridiculous to me. Many international flights are less than 11 hours and most of the flat bed business class offerings are more than adequate even for ultra long haul.

dont knock it until you have tried it..... having been upgraded numerous times from J to F on the T7 with the suite, its rough going back to J, let alone Y   
 
rutankrd
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:12 pm

Emirates have made no secret of the intention to acquire and fit out a number of A388 in a higher density and sans first class in future deliveries. I believe its going to be about 550-560 seats

They will be the IGW and are intended for regional , secondary Chinese markets and yes India (the bastion of free market economics i think not).

Clearly Delhi's intransigence needs to be overcome as they continue to restrict the A388s access (attempting to protect there ineffective national airline!)

Stitch EK offer First on all three daily Manchester - DXB rotations (Two 77W plus A388 ) and they frequently sell out (without upgrades !)
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 8):
I don't see this is a suggestion to remove F in existing planes, but rather to take some without F in future.

Much more logic.... but if i´m not mistaken since the moment they order that they wanted also a high capacity plane with small business class cofig, like the 2 class B77W they operate...

So i´m not sure if this is new news...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
I can see LHR needing First Class, but does MAN?

If they offer it´s because they really have the demand....
 
roseflyer
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:35 pm

Business class is so good that few are willing to pay for First Class. I predict first class almost disappearing in the next 10 years. Premium economy will grow, and we will be at the same seating configuration that we had 20 years ago, but with new names.

Business class is the new first class (full flat seats and elaborate meal service), Premium economy is what business class was 20 years ago (40-45'' pitch and slightly wider seat, with upgraded meal service), and regular economy will be just as miserable as it always has been.
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:38 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 15):
If (EK) offer (F on a route) it´s because they really have the demand....

Evidently this is not the universal case per the comment of Thierry Antinori, EVP of passenger sales at Emirates from the original post.
 
ssublyme
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:39 pm

That is my understanding as well. EK had always had plans for 3 different configurations for their A380's. So unless thy are actually removing the showers in their existing fleet, I don't see this as news per se.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):

I was under the impression EK always planned to operate A380s in a two-class configuration of Business and Economy Classes.
 
kaitak
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 4):
I see it all as cyclical really. What F used to be is now Business Class, and what Business Class used to be is now Premium Y. When international Business Class originally started it was pretty much the same as Premium Y until TWA and other carriers started upgrading the seating from Y seats with more legroom to recliner premium-style seats.

My sentiments exactly.

I don't think EK will remove F on all A380s, but certainly on those aircraft flying to "secondary destinations", such as MAN, which don't generate that much F Class; the premium routes such as LHR-DXB-SYD, possibly DXB-JFK will more than likely retain F Class.

Wonder if EK will attempt a Premium Y Class product?
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:34 pm

"such as MAN..."

I am on my iPad, so don't have the link, but EK are on record as saying First yields from MAN have been stellar, hence the introduction of First on all 3 daily rotations and the not too shabby investment in lounge facilities at MAN.

Quote:
Emirates has upgraded its evening service from Manchester from a two class Boeing 777-300ER to a three class Boeing 777-300ER, with the service starting on Saturday 1st September 2012......

Emirates has identified Manchester as an important hub in the UK and this announcement supports the continued commitment and investment by the airline in the North West of England.
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/ne...ates-upgrades-manchester-services/

Quote:
Emirates finds ‘unprecedented demand’ for First and Business class services from Manchester

Rgds

[Edited 2013-01-09 10:42:51]
Flying around India
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:44 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 15):

If they offer it´s because they really have the demand....

Not with F--plenty of carriers are rethinking the amount of true F capacity they have out there, including AF, LH, SQ, JL/NH, etc...

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 20):
I am on my iPad, so don't have the link, but EK are on record as saying First yields from MAN have been stellar, hence the introduction of First on all 3 daily rotations and the not too shabby investment in lounge facilities at MAN.

I believe the yields are good but I highly doubt MAN can fill 3 daily F cabins, especially at a decent fare.
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Danfearn77
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):

But EK do fill 3 daily. The morning flight used to be 2 class before it was upgraded to 3 class. And now the evening flight is a 3 class 77W too. Y capacity has gone down to increase the F capacity so they see the demand is there. As posted, EK have said MAN has high loads and yields in all classes. Watch this space for the evening flight to switch to an A380. Rumour I've heard is it will later this year...
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United885
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:03 pm

I guess they think about a removing of the F class in some A380´s with a look in the futur too.
Some routes that are mainly used by tourists (i.E. Malé, Colombo, Mauritius...) are currently served by 77W´s. If they are planning to upgrade those destinations, looking at the loadfaktor (i don´t know how good the Y class is booked at these routes) it adds up to use aircrafts without F class at these routes I think.
I haven´t been everywhere, but it´s on my list.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Maybe if they didn't chard $20,000 for a seat, they would have more people flying in F.  
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David_itl
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 24):
Maybe if they didn't chard $20,000 for a seat, they would have more people flying in F.

Just looked at MAN-SYD... with 3 A380 sectors, it comes in at just over $11,000 for a trip departing 12th Jan, return 19th Jan. LHR-SYD is fractionally more expensive with the same travel details entered.

Conclusion: (a) EK not as expensive as some people think (b) no deep discounting for F out of MAN!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:35 pm

The question is, will they also reduce the J cabin? What seats will go on the top deck? I'm not in favor of Y+ for EK, they have gone with a little higher density J which suits the market IMHO.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
With EK having such a diverse network, a one cabin fits all concept does not work in all markets.

   I'm surprised so many of the long haul 777s are 3 class though...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
I was under the impression EK always planned to operate A380s in a two-class configuration of Business and Economy Classes.

I recall them discussing a 2-class early on. But not for the longest routes (no crew rest).

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 24):
Maybe if they didn't chard $20,000 for a seat, they would have more people flying in F.

Then they would make less per m^2 in F than J which means rip out the seats. F must make due with lower load factors (due to too few seats for yield managment) too. So just as Y+ is a big step up in price over Y, F must be over J for a profit.

Quoting ekgold (Reply 13):
having been upgraded numerous times from J to F on the T7 with the suite, its rough going back to J, let alone Y

But the issue is F takes up more floor space without adding revenue.

Quoting Danfearn77 (Reply 22):
Watch this space for the evening flight to switch to an A380. Rumour I've heard is it will later this year...

Interesting, and not that surprising MAN is doing that well.

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LAXintl
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:41 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 25):
(a) EK not as expensive as some people think

  

Unfortunately, not enough people realize that airlines are not the drivers of fares, but its the consumer and the open market instead.
Air travel has become a commoditized business, where pricing is based on supply and demand. An airline might want to charge $10,000 for a ticket, but if the market going rate is $5,000, then $5,000 is what it can garner. Its become very rare these days that things like service, or product manage to drive fare premiums.

Quoting david_itl (Reply 25):
(b) no deep discounting for F out of MAN!

Call a few consolidators. Never believe and airlines website headline ticket price.

Here in LA, one can easily land 20-40% off headline premium class rates by using the proper travel agency with their net rates and airline contracts.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:09 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16):
Business class is so good that few are willing to pay for First Class. I predict first class almost disappearing in the next 10 years. Premium economy will grow, and we will be at the same seating configuration that we had 20 years ago, but with new names.

  

This seems to be happening, indeed.

But at least this is still better than what happens in some other areas, term inflation where product stays the same or worsens, but the names keep changing to better sounding ones. That is extremely annoying.

Hmm.... maybe that's an idea. Anybody want to help me found a new low-cost airline that offers business class-only service? We could subcontract the actual aircraft and service from Ryanair, but have all tickets and marketing material speak about business class seats (all 189 of them in the 737). There'd even be plenty of voluntary upgrades to First Class (isle seat) and five course meals with beef main course (water, napkin, chips, beef jerky, a candy). I'm sure it would be a big marketing success! Think of the Facebook updates about your First Class upgrades!
 
brilondon
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
With first class cabins often going empty, or at discount rates typical of business class fares, according to Thierry Antinori, EVP of passenger sales at Emirates, "We are currently looking at how we can fit out some A380s with only two classes," EK is "unhappy with load factors in First Class".

Well, well, well....color me unsurprised. That shower isn't generating revenue?  

Wow, that is as shocking as seeing the sun in the east in the morning.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 20):
I am on my iPad, so don't have the link, but EK are on record as saying First yields from MAN have been stellar, hence the introduction of First on all 3 daily rotations and the not too shabby investment in lounge facilities at MAN.

If that were the case then they would not be talking like they are talking. I am more of the opinion that what they say then and what reality is may be two different things.
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LH7478i
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:22 pm

A general suggestion about the apparently industry wide F problem :

Why not further decrease F cabin size ? Sounds like F is almost empty anyway. So fill up the space with more J or Y+ seats and squeeze the full fare out of the people who don't know what to do with their money? What do you think about F cabins with only 4 seats ? Screw the showers and mini-bars IMO.
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Viscount724
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:30 pm

Even in pre-deregulation days when F class wasn't even up to today's J class standards, load factors in F were usually very low on most routes, and F cabins were frequently completely empty, but since all major airlines normally equipped virtually their entire longhaul fleet with an F class cabin, they couldn't do much about it then when the aircraft operated routes with no F class demand. There were no frequent flyer programs to permit elite member upgrades. F class was often filled with nonrev employees.

The number of routes today with enough true F class revenue demand to make the product economic is very small. On the majority of routes you can make much better use of all that real estate.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting LH7478i (Reply 30):
A general suggestion about the apparently industry wide F problem : why not further decrease F cabin size?

I have had the pleasure of flying on Air France's and TAM's 777-200s in First and the single row of seats did "up the atmosphere" in my opinion compared to the larger cabins found on other airlines (and larger equipment).
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:02 pm

I'm still waiting for my bowling alley.   
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
boysteve
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 29):
If that were the case then they would not be talking like they are talking. I am more of the opinion that what they say then and what reality is may be two different things.

I agree that talk can be talk only. However EK have introduced F on the evening rotation (EK19/20) and on the early morning rotation (EK21/22) in the past twelve months. Action speaks louder than words, but on this occasion they point to the same thing!
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:25 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 25):
Just looked at MAN-SYD... with 3 A380 sectors, it comes in at just over $11,000 for a trip departing

I just looked at IAH-DXB-SYD for the same date. It turned out to be $29,178.60 r/t all in F.
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rutankrd
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:41 pm

Why has this turned into justifying and analysing the current Manchester operations ?

Like I said Emirates have made no secret that they WILL be getting some IGW models which WILL be sans First Class.

They are for regional operations in the main.

This is not news or a change of EK policy .

They certainly need the two class with the 550-560 capacity in the expanding network.

They do NOT need to reconfigure the existing fleet and on reading the transcript it doesn't even imply this, more rather that are looking at how to configure the future two class 388 deliveries effectively.

Elsewhere there is talk of a follow on order so EK aren't exactly worried by the whale jet.

For those interested in the month of May EK are scheduled to run the low density model a cut of 28 in steerage whilst maintaining the premium class on the Manchester route.

If premium were weak they WOULD have maintained the steerage and used a 77W for the period but they haven't
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):

Well, well, well....color me unsurprised. That shower isn't generating revenue?

How many people take a shower every 14 hours? Which is the length of EK's longest A380 flight. Pax can't go for a sprint or a work out in-flight! Plus if you're flying F you can shower and use deodorant at the airport lounge.
 
jayunited
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:51 pm

If we look at the world economy its still limping along so most businesses just don't see the the point in spending the money on first class travel. Most airlines around the world have either completed or started to overhaul their business class cabins which are just as comfortable as first class only thing passengers don't have is ultra privacy. I think that the approach that airlines are taking in reducing the number of first class seats on each plane is great cause first takes up a lot of space and if its going out empty or full of upgrades then reducing the number of seats means the airline could make more money by adding business class seats. So I think EK is doing the right thing although A380's are very efficient they still are expensive to operate so waisting space with empty F seats, showers, lounge and a bar means you are increasing your operating cost. Adding more business class seats in certain markets lowers the cost and sends more money to the bottom line.

What I hope is that in the coming years airlines here in the USA will get away from Y+ on their international fleet and add true premium economy cause that sector of the market is growing fast.
 
justinlee
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:53 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 28):
Hmm.... maybe that's an idea. Anybody want to help me found a new low-cost airline that offers business class-only service? We could subcontract the actual aircraft and service from Ryanair, but have all tickets and marketing material speak about business class seats (all 189 of them in the 737). There'd even be plenty of voluntary upgrades to First Class (isle seat) and five course meals with beef main course (water, napkin, chips, beef jerky, a candy). I'm sure it would be a big marketing success! Think of the Facebook updates about your First Class upgrades!

That will be a bad idea. Who is the main passenger group in Business Class? Business travelers and the fare is not a concern for them as the company will pay! Why would they fly on a so-called business rather than real business class?
 
Gasman
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RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:11 am

I've flown four long haul and two short haul sectors in F Class on the EK A380. The hard product is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but close to it. And I have appreciated the much ridiculed shower a couple of times - to be able to shower, get into your pyjamas before (hopefully) sleeping for six hours does make a difference.

Where EK's F product fails - and has made me re-evaluate whether I really want to pay for it - is in the soft product. On every sector I've flown with them, there has been some major clanger (specified beverages not available, running out of meal options, 4 different crew members asking me the same question within twenty minutes) that really should not occur when paying F Class prices. If EK could sort these minor, but important issues out - I suspect their F product might achieve some brand loyalty.

(and that can of Pringles, along with the non-refrigerated "bar" really does need a rethink)
 
spud757
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:20 pm

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:50 am

commentators regarding the MAN services seem to neglect the fact that MAN rotations are now x3 daily with F. That hasn't always been so.

When it was a x2 daily service prior to the A380, F wasn't available.

Then the F cabin came along with the A380 service.

Next the 2nd rotation was upgraded from a 2 class 77W to a 3 class config.

Then EK introduced a third flight using a 2 class A330. This was quickly upgraded to another 77W with F.

It'd be pretty stupid to upgrade all 3 flights to include F cabins if demand & yield wasn't there. Could have stuck with the 2 class 77W service.

EK has invested heavily at MAN. Something must be working for them.

Also SQ upgraded MAN service to include F cabin after many years without it. Suggests that F demand does exist in the UK outside of London.

As for introduction of Y+ on EK. Isn't this something they need to consider with the QF venture?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4107
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:18 am

This policy change with regard to premium product offerings at EK is not just impacting the A380 fleet. In the near future, an increasing proportion of EK's B77W fleet will comprise 2-class aircraft. EK's 4 latest B77W deliveries have been 2-class aircraft, in part to fund additional frequencies to 2-class markets such as Manila and Jakarta, but also in part to change current 3-class routes to a 2-class product. Copenhagen has recently seen such as change and is now served by a 2-class B77W. Dar Es Salaam and Durban are also slated to lose the F product and see a 2-class B77W introduced.

In the not so distant future, I can see markets such as Lisbon, Prague, St Petersburg, Athens, Warsaw, Algiers and Phuket revert to a 2-class product. Evidently, there are also a couple of existing A380 routes which are experiencing below average F demand. Amsterdam and Rome are likely among those markets. EK may also be looking to upgauge existing high volume 2-class markets from the B77W to the A380 if and when the airports involved finally get ready to accomodate the aircraft. Manila, Jakarta and a couple of subcontinent destinations could be in line for such a service.
 
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zippyjet
Posts: 5185
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:44 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):

If Emirates scraps first class, I suggest they turn the space into a mini day spa complete with massages, facials, manis, pedis. Maybe even have the first mile high steam and sauna baths. And the shower would be included with one of the services purchased. This works quite well on cruise ships. If they market it right, a lot of tired coach and business class passengers would jump at the chance at getting rubbed at 35,000 feet and melting their stress away in a steam or sauna then a nice shower. Aaah.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting ekgold (Reply 13):
dont knock it until you have tried it..... having been upgraded numerous times from J to F on the T7 with the suite, its rough going back to J, let alone Y

You're probably right!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
Here in LA, one can easily land 20-40% off headline premium class rates by using the proper travel agency with their net rates and airline contracts.

Names and phone numbers please! Feel free to email me with all the details!

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 37):
How many people take a shower every 14 hours? Which is the length of EK's longest A380 flight. Pax can't go for a sprint or a work out in-flight! Plus if you're flying F you can shower and use deodorant at the airport lounge.

My thoughts exactly.
 
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zippyjet
Posts: 5185
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:21 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 44):
Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 37):
How many people take a shower every 14 hours? Which is the length of EK's longest A380 flight. Pax can't go for a sprint or a work out in-flight! Plus if you're flying F you can shower and use deodorant at the airport lounge.

If it's available people will take advantage of it especially a novelty like in flight shower. And you all should travel
style. I'd be hitting it several times with hotties on board which mandates at least one mile high shower. And, I'd take that dunk/shower with one of them. Come on peeps enjoy!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
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CARST
Posts: 1571
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 37):
How many people take a shower every 14 hours? Which is the length of EK's longest A380 flight. Pax can't go for a sprint or a work out in-flight! Plus if you're flying F you can shower and use deodorant at the airport lounge.
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 45):
If it's available people will take advantage of it especially a novelty like in flight shower.

But that is exactly the point, why this over-luxurious F class is NOT working for EK on all routes. It is available, so people on the airplane use it. But what about all the other potential pax who would rather pay less instead of enjoying a shower at cruise level? They just pay a J/C or a cheaper F class fare and shower at the airport lounges or their hotels. Biz class today, is like F class 15-20 years ago. The demand for a class above the F class of the older days is just not there or very, very low on the majority of the routes, especially not for an F class above all other F classes out there with extra expensive amenities, all included in the ticket price.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:35 pm

Quoting spud757 (Reply 41):
It'd be pretty stupid to upgrade all 3 flights to include F cabins if demand & yield wasn't there. Could have stuck with the 2 class 77W service.

   Man is doing well. EK will shift 3-class quickly to where it does well.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 42):
In the near future, an increasing proportion of EK's B77W fleet will comprise 2-class aircraft. EK's 4 latest B77W deliveries have been 2-class aircraft, in part to fund additional frequencies to 2-class markets such as Manila and Jakarta, but also in part to change current 3-class routes to a 2-class product.

Interesting... I wonder if when they rotate out old 77Ws it will be to mask the shift in product...

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 42):
In the not so distant future, I can see markets such as Lisbon, Prague, St Petersburg, Athens, Warsaw, Algiers and Phuket revert to a 2-class product. Evidently, there are also a couple of existing A380 routes which are experiencing below average F demand. Amsterdam and Rome are likely among those markets.

Interesting details. Thank you. Any hints on EK's 2-class layout?

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 43):
a lot of tired coach and business class passengers would jump at the chance at getting rubbed at 35,000 feet and melting their stress away in a steam or sauna then a nice shower.

But at what price? That space would have to generate revenue better than seats per flight. Ever see those spas on a cruise ship day one? Pretty empty. It is by day 3 or 4 they are packed. I doubt that concept would work.

Move the bar to the front of the A380 and fill the back with Y seats. I propose a 40J to 60J configuration which should free up room for about a hundred more Y. No, I didn't do the math, so whomever has a proposed seat plan, please share.

Lightaber
4 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27485
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:33 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 47):
Any hints on EK's 2-class layout?

~653 seats total, but I have not seen a breakdown by Class of Service.
 
na
Posts: 9823
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Emirates Could Remove First Class From Some A380 Aircraft

Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16):

Business class is so good that few are willing to pay for First Class. I predict first class almost disappearing in the next 10 years. Premium economy will grow, and we will be at the same seating configuration that we had 20 years ago, but with new names.

Exactly. With many current business class products often better than First Class 20 years ago who really needs First? Less and less I guess.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

As the industry split grows between carriers that opt for ultra-luxurious first class cabins, while others ditch the concept entirely and look to provide a top end business class cabin instead, looks like Emirates is considering joining the list of airlines scrapping F class on some of its A380s.

Why dont they just ask Airbus to deliver the NEW A380s coming in without F/C? Must be simpler and cheaper than converting existing planes.

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