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TWA85
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UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:21 pm

Hello Everybody and Happy New Year!

Where did UA fly to from their former MIA hub over the years? Also with the addition of Avianca/TACA and Copa to the Star Alliance, is there any chance that UA might consider re-instating some of their former MIA operations to compliment the operations of their Latin American partners? Thank you in advance for all of your responces.
 
skycub
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:46 pm

My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
TWA85
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting skycub (Reply 1):



Thank you very much!!!!!!
 
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STT757
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:57 pm

They peaked at 36 departures in 1994.
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2travel2know2
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:45 pm

Star Alliance has no presence in the major MIA-LON, MIA-EZE, MIA-GRU/GIG and MIA-Caribbean international non-stop markets, but it's really doubtful UA may start some international routes out of MIA (or FLL for that matter).
When it comes to MIA-Brazil, one could dream they would fly MIA-VCP red-eyes both ways.
Grant that in some routes (MIA-KIN/PAP/SDQ/BGI/POS/GEO/BZE) there might be room for UA, perhaps even for a MIA-LGW red-eyes both ways too.
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IrishAyes
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:49 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 4):
but it's really doubtful UA may start some international routes out of MIA (or FLL for that matter).

UA actually flies to a decent handful of cities in the Bahamas and the Caribbean from FLL. I was actually in FLL yesterday and there is a United Club there, whereas MIA does not have a single UA Club.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 4):
Grant that in some routes (MIA-KIN/PAP/SDQ/BGI/POS/GEO/BZE) there might be room for UA, perhaps even for a MIA-LGW red-eyes both ways too.

Not a chance.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 5):
UA actually flies to a decent handful of cities in the Bahamas and the Caribbean from FLL.

NAS I was aware and NAS doesn't seem to be an international arrival. Other Caribbean destinations from FLL, I had no idea.
Which ones?
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tommy767
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:20 pm

I flew DCA-MIA on a 727 with UA and MIA-ORD-EWR on a 777 (connecting to a 757) in February 2000. They definitely had a nice set up in the (I think) F concourse, but there were quite a few gates close to ground level that were never utilized. UA did fly a lot of 777s by 2000 into MIA.
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skycub
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:32 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
They peaked at 36 departures in 1994.

So an idea of what their peak schedule looked like:

6:40am UA 984 Chicago B757
7:00am UA 996 LaGuardia B737
7:07am UA 735 Orlando B757
7:10am UA 990 San Francisco B767
7:15am UA 982 Los Angeles B767
7:35am UA 247 Washington National B727
7:40am UA 803 Newark B737
7:55am UA 849 Mexico City B737
8:20am UA 153 Denver B737
8:25am UA* 5519 Orlando
10:10am UA* 5554 Orlando
11:00am UA 858 LaGuardia B737
11:35am UA 855 San Juan B737
12:25pm UA* 5543 Orlando
12:30pm UA 879 Caracas B737
12:34pm UA 379 Chicago B757
12:55pm UA 949 Grand Cayman B737
1:10pm UA 874 Orlando B737
1:21pm UA 896 LaGuardia B737
1:30pm UA 914 Washington Dulles B757
1:33pm UA 348 Denver B737
2:30pm UA* 5557 Orlando
4:20pm UA* 5574 Orlando
5:30pm UA 885 San Salvador B737
6:15pm UA 859 San Juan B737
6:20pm UA 833 San Jose (CR) B737
6:25pm UA 873 Guatemala City B737
6:30pm UA 887 Panama City B737
6:35pm UA 869 Caracas B757
6:52pm UA 986 Chicago B727
7:25pm UA* 5528 Orlando
8:40pm UA* 5537 Orlando
11:15pm UA 985 Buenos Aires B747
11:20pm UA 997 Santiago B767
11:30pm UA 991 Rio de Janeiro B767
11:45pm UA 983 Sao Paulo B767

(On an unrelated side-note, while I was looking up that information, I noticed that the routing of the the MIA-DCA flight was actually MIA-DCA-BWI-DEN-SFO. It surprised me that as late as 1994, United was still flying a 727 between Washington National and Baltimore!)
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tommy767
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:48 pm

Ahh the good old days. Funny how since the merger UA is now much larger up the road at FLL with Silver Airways operating as a regional affiliate.

Quoting skycub (Reply 8):
11:35am UA 855 San Juan B737
12:25pm UA* 5543 Orlando
12:30pm UA 879 Caracas B737
12:34pm UA 379 Chicago B757
12:55pm UA 949 Grand Cayman B737

UA had ETOPS on their classic 737s?
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codc10
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:58 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 9):
UA had ETOPS on their classic 737s?

None of those are ETOPS routes, although certain routings could require overwater equipment (vests, rafts, survival kits, ELT).
 
jfk777
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:49 pm

Latin America has evolved since UA had a Miami hib, back then UA didn't fly from ORD or IAD to GRU as they do now. Continental also flies Newark and Houston to Sao Paulo(GRU) and many other Latin cities like Buenos Aires.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 6):

NAS has US border preclearance facilities, allowing NAS-US pax to clear immigration in NAS and arrive as a domestic US flight.

Silver airways is a United Express-affiliated carrier but sets up routes and runs a lot of non-UA hub southeast routes. It is a reincarnation of Gulfstrean International. They have a UX hub at FLL currently, along with at TPA. They also run UX from CLE and IAD, and run independent flights from BIL and ATL.
 
jayunited
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:19 pm

United is not interested in MIA we have been reducing our flights there for years. Early in 2012 the company told employees that they were looking into increasing flights at FLL in fact the company told ramp and customer service employees who wanted to go to FLL to submit a transfer which would be honored based upon their company seniority. From my understanding they received an overwhelming response do the the large amount of cuts we did in the entire Florida market during and after bankruptcy, but nothing ever happened because United only added a few flights to FLL and most of those were only seasonal. So most employees now do not really believe that New United will treat Florida any differently than the old United did.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:39 pm

Let's not forget there was more to UA's Latin America acquisition then just MIA:

JFK-CCS-POS
JFK-GRU-GIG
JFK-EZE-MVD

LAX-MEX
LAX-GUA
LAX-SAL
LAX-SJO

Also I might be wrong but I believe UA also acquired Pan Am's MCO-MEX flights.
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OB1504
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting TWA85 (Thread starter):
Where did UA fly to from their former MIA hub over the years? Also with the addition of Avianca/TACA and Copa to the Star Alliance, is there any chance that UA might consider re-instating some of their former MIA operations to compliment the operations of their Latin American partners? Thank you in advance for all of your responces.

I doubt it, since AA would fight tooth and nail and other airlines (including Star Alliance partners) have already filled the void UA left ten years ago.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 5):
UA actually flies to a decent handful of cities in the Bahamas and the Caribbean from FLL. I was actually in FLL yesterday and there is a United Club there, whereas MIA does not have a single UA Club.

There used to be at least one, maybe two, UA clubs at MIA, both in Concourse F. I believe there was a first class lounge on the fourth floor of the concourse, above Gates F17/F19/F21/F23, and a standard lounge on the second floor at the concourse entrance, which was formerly a PA lounge and is currently the airport's consular lounge.

I believe the current UA lounge at FLL was in fact inherited from Continental. There was a time when FLL was an all-Ted station.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 6):
NAS I was aware and NAS doesn't seem to be an international arrival. Other Caribbean destinations from FLL, I had no idea. Which ones?

Only the Bahamas, although as you've said, FPO and NAS preclear and are treated as domestic arrivals. Flights from other Bahamanian destinations arrive into the commuter gate at Terminal 4 on the other side of the airport so passengers and crew can clear Customs.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 12):
Silver airways is a United Express-affiliated carrier but sets up routes and runs a lot of non-UA hub southeast routes. It is a reincarnation of Gulfstrean International. They have a UX hub at FLL currently, along with at TPA. They also run UX from CLE and IAD, and run independent flights from BIL and ATL.

Gulfstream also used to fly from MIA, but pulled out entirely about two years ago and focused their operations exclusively from FLL. They currently fly intra-Florida and to the Bahamas, in addition to the Ohio ops and the EAS service out west.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 13):
United is not interested in MIA we have been reducing our flights there for years. Early in 2012 the company told employees that they were looking into increasing flights at FLL in fact the company told ramp and customer service employees who wanted to go to FLL to submit a transfer which would be honored based upon their company seniority. From my understanding they received an overwhelming response do the the large amount of cuts we did in the entire Florida market during and after bankruptcy, but nothing ever happened because United only added a few flights to FLL and most of those were only seasonal. So most employees now do not really believe that New United will treat Florida any differently than the old United did.

I was even told that UA would start hiring new agents at FLL, but of course that didn't come to fruition. As an agent for another airline, I love working with the UA agents at MIA, though, because they've been there pretty much forever and can easily take care of any problems that a passenger might have.

[Edited 2013-01-09 18:01:36]
 
eastern023
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:06 am

At some point they had MIA-LIM-SCL on a 757.
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DolphinAir747
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:32 am

Why does UA not fly SFO-MIA?
 
flymia
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 15):
Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 12):

You can book Silver Airways flights on united.com but I get a feeling a lot of their business comes from just being silver airways in their Florida Ops. Anyway Silver does not even fly to NAS or FPO anymore. The bahamas flights focus on the smaller islands. I guess it is United's only link to those smaller islands but the demand isn't much of course.
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gigneil
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:23 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 17):
Why does UA not fly SFO-MIA?

I don't think they think they can compete with American on such a route.

NS
 
eastern023
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:25 am

And at some point they flew MIA-SCL on a 772. AA should be doing that now....
AA will Rise Again!
 
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zippyjet
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:35 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 7):

Those close to ground level gates at MIA were vestiges of the good old days when that gate could host a Connie, DC-7, Electra from the major carriers on mainline routes. Also those "ground level" gates were used on the larger jet flights 707/DC-8/CV880 etc. when first class boarded via jetway (those lower gates had the mini-me jetways. And coach passengers enplaned and deplaned via airstairs/hardstand from the aft door using the ground level gates. I remember as a kid flying home from MIA to BWI then BAL on and Eastern 720 flight 172. It was a late afternoon flight and it was August 31, 1966. I was 10 my sister 5. I have pictures somewhere in the stuff I inherited from my parents. I'll try to scan and share of us on the ramp at MIA my dad taking the picture of me, my sister and my mom and the caption saying "End of another Florida Trip or Family Vacation." Of course Eastern was on what was then Concourse C but was originally labelled as Concourse 6. This was as we were boarding and there's a shot of the jetway in the forground. Eastern at MIA had the standard telescoping jetways.

I believe back then when it was Friendship International Airport, on what is now Concourse C then it was B "The main concourse"
we deplaned the same way by airstairs/hard stand and the first class passengers I believe used the front stairs but in 1966 it was still a hard stand/airstairs.
Jetways at least on the Eastern terminal at BWI were in use in 1968. We flew to MIA on National a 727 and boarded by that same jetway as Eastern and National were near each other. This was my first jetway experience at BWI then Friendship. My first jetways were ATL and MIA both on DL on that 1966 trip going down to MIA and both jetways were "mini-me's."

Sorry to go off topic.

I thought UA also flew to JFK and EWR when they were at their peak in MIA.

Quoting skycub (Reply 8):
(On an unrelated side-note, while I was looking up that information, I noticed that the routing of the the MIA-DCA flight was actually MIA-DCA-BWI-DEN-SFO. It surprised me that as late as 1994, United was still flying a 727 between Washington National and Baltimore!)

How about UA flying a DC-10 between BWI and IAD as late as 1985. My parents flew it on their way to SFO. That is where that flight ended up.

Again sorry to go off topic but Piedmont to name a few had those strange cool quickie legs between DCA and BWI. They actually
had a flight up till the 1989 takeover/merger with US that was CLT-DCA-BWI-MIA!

Back in the day their always was someone flying legs like BWI-DCA or IAD, and FLL-MIA. Out of BWI there was at least one National Airlines flight that did BWI-DCA-MIA and back originally Lockheed Electras then on the 727.
UA had at least that one BWI-IAD hop and I mentioned Piedmont.

[Edited 2013-01-09 19:37:58]
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flymia
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:35 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 21):

UA certainly did fly MIA-JFK at some pint and up till at least 2001. I remember flying UA on MIA-JFK-MIA in November of 2001. A 767-300 which continued from and continued to EZE I believe. It was my first flight ever with PTVs, I really loved that. I also remember listening to channel 9 on the JFK-MIA leg and having a female captain. Also that flight is so memorable as it was my first flight after 9/11.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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zippyjet
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:18 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 22):

I was thrown off with that posted UA MIA schedule. I remember back in the 1980's David Letterman when he was still on loser network NBC had a special in place of Saturday Night Live where he, and his crew plus a lot of young hot chicks flew a UA 747 from JFK to MIA. It was cool. Hot chicks, on board a 747 to MIA and David Letterman, Paul Schaeffer and I believe that funny wacky now late Larry Bud Melman was on that jumbo and the hot chicks were attending to him though I think his fancy would have been the Would You Hit It Pink Thread.   
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OB1504
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:23 am

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 20):
And at some point they flew MIA-SCL on a 772. AA should be doing that now....

Like AA's current MIA-SCL service, UA flew the 772 on the route seasonally.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 21):
Those close to ground level gates at MIA were vestiges of the good old days when that gate could host a Connie, DC-7, Electra from the major carriers on mainline routes. Also those "ground level" gates were used on the larger jet flights 707/DC-8/CV880 etc. when first class boarded via jetway (those lower gates had the mini-me jetways. And coach passengers enplaned and deplaned via airstairs/hardstand from the aft door using the ground level gates.

That being said, with the exception of the F1 bus station, Concourse F didn't have any ground-load gates left by the time UA set up shop in the 1990s. I think the poster may have been referring to the lower F gates (F3 thru F9) which required going down ramps from the main corridor, which itself was on the third floor.
 
flybry
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:05 am

I remember in the late 90s I think, United did add MIA-ATL for a short period of time, they advertised the flight to connect ATL passenters to its Latin American destinations.
 
SCL767
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:14 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 24):

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 20):
And at some point they flew MIA-SCL on a 772. AA should be doing that now....

Like AA's current MIA-SCL service, UA flew the 772 on the route seasonally.

AA has not deployed the B772 on the MIA-SCL route in years. AA increases frequency on the MIA-SCL route seasonally utilizing the B763.
 
skycub
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:23 pm

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 16):
At some point they had MIA-LIM-SCL on a 757.
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 21):
I thought UA also flew to JFK and EWR when they were at their peak in MIA.
Quoting flymia (Reply 22):
UA certainly did fly MIA-JFK at some pint and up till at least 2001.
Quoting flybry (Reply 25):
I remember in the late 90s I think, United did add MIA-ATL for a short period of time

All of those routes mentioned:

MIA-LIM, MIA-JFK, MIA-EWR, MIA-ATL are all shown on the website/chart I linked in response number two:

Quoting skycub (Reply 1):
Here you go, my friend:

http://www.departedflights.com/UAMIA....html

It just so happens that none of those routes (other than EWR) were not operating during the "peak" schedule June 1994 schedule I posted in reply number 8.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 21):

How about UA flying a DC-10 between BWI and IAD as late as 1985. My parents flew it on their way to SFO. That is where that flight ended up.

Again sorry to go off topic but Piedmont to name a few had those strange cool quickie legs between DCA and BWI. They actually
had a flight up till the 1989 takeover/merger with US that was CLT-DCA-BWI-MIA!

Back in the day their always was someone flying legs like BWI-DCA or IAD, and FLL-MIA. Out of BWI there was at least one National Airlines flight that did BWI-DCA-MIA and back originally Lockheed Electras then on the 727.
UA had at least that one BWI-IAD hop and I mentioned Piedmont.

Right....I kow that....and I know that there have been numerous threads about short-haul jet and short-haul wide-body routes.... I guess is just surprised me that as late as 1994 (not the 70s or 80s) UNITED was still flying a mainline jet on a short route like that.  

[Edited 2013-01-10 06:17:03]

[Edited 2013-01-10 06:17:27]
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
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prchan
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:33 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 4):
Star Alliance has no presence in the major MIA-LON, MIA-EZE, MIA-GRU/GIG and MIA-Caribbean international non-stop markets, but it's really doubtful UA may start some international routes out of MIA (or FLL for that matter).

Technically, Star has presence in the MIA-GRU and MIA-GIG markets through JJ. However, it is known that this presence will not last long (JJ will probably exit Star).

I still remember my first 772 flight on UA GRU-MIA back in late 90's. Nowadays, the competition created by AA, JJ and on a lesser extent, DL (leisure passenger who does not care connecting in ATL), UA would have a hard time establishing the route again.

On the other side, the O&D demand on the route, the high fares (currently a R/T Y discounted ticket around $2000), and Star FF base could make it feasible for UA.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:17 pm

Quoting prchan (Reply 28):
I still remember my first 772 flight on UA GRU-MIA back in late 90's. Nowadays, the competition created by AA, JJ and on a lesser extent, DL (leisure passenger who does not care connecting in ATL), UA would have a hard time establishing the route again.

I would love to see UA try to fly FLL-GRU or GIG. For all this talk of recent UA FLL expansion, it could be appropriate using a 787.

Quoting skycub (Reply 27):
MIA-EWR,

IIRC, UA flew MIA-EWR until 1999 with a 727 and then resumed it on weekends in winters 2001 and 2002 using a 32S

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 24):
That being said, with the exception of the F1 bus station, Concourse F didn't have any ground-load gates left by the time UA set up shop in the 1990s. I think the poster may have been referring to the lower F gates (F3 thru F9) which required going down ramps from the main corridor, which itself was on the third floor.

Thanks for the story Zippyjet (and if you can get those pics up even better!) I was referring to the lower F gates which by 2000 seemed to be very underutilized by UA. They were pretty old school gates with basic UA signage and small waiting areas. Most of the activity was in the rotunda below the RCC and FCL -- even the flights to LGA, ATL, and MCO
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laca773
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:06 pm

Quoting skycub (Reply 8):

So an idea of what their peak schedule looked like:

6:40am UA 984 Chicago B757

LAX-MIA was also flown with a 772 for quite sometime.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):

LAX-MEX
LAX-GUA
LAX-SAL
LAX-SJO

They flew all of these routes for many years after they got them as part of the Pan AM Latin America Package. I know the employees down there were paid quite well and many of these routes lost money for UA. A few years ago, UA dropped all of these markets, and had TA fly them instead on behalf of UA. It was only in the last year and half or so, US re-started LAX-MEX, which I believe happened due to CO havnig such a strong presence in MEX.
 
strfyr51
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:47 am

UNited Brought MIA up in 1987 when we flew MIA-GIG , MIA-EZE MIA GRU with 747's Right after MIA sarted building the new terminal fir American they decided to raise the landing fees on all the other carriers and UAL had a fit and pulled out moving the flights to IAD. It hasn't really canged from then to now.
 
flymia
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:40 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 32):

I am sure higher landing fees had somethIng to do with it but I think UA going Chap 11 and 9/11 had a lot more to do with it. I doubt UA would leave MIA just because they were mad at MIA.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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STT757
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:57 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 31):
UNited Brought MIA up in 1987 when we flew MIA-GIG , MIA-EZE MIA GRU with 747's

UA purchased Pan Am's Latin America operations in their CH-7 asset auction, I believe it was $160 million. That was in 1992, in 1987 Pan Am, and Eastern, were very much alive.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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ADent
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:02 pm

Prior to the CO merger, MIA was an Express station for UA with only seasonal mainline service.

So UA management has no love for MIA, not sure about the CO management. I don't know which is making the route decisions.
 
OB1504
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RE: UA MIA Hub Question

Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:18 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 31):
UNited Brought MIA up in 1987 when we flew MIA-GIG , MIA-EZE MIA GRU with 747's Right after MIA sarted building the new terminal fir American they decided to raise the landing fees on all the other carriers and UAL had a fit and pulled out moving the flights to IAD. It hasn't really canged from then to now.

That's not even remotely close to true. UA half-assed their MIA operation while AA hit the ground running and subsequently reaped the rewards. Also, if landing fees were ever increased enough to drive UA out, they were also covering the new South Terminal which was originally intended to serve UA's Latin American hub.

Quoting ADent (Reply 34):
Prior to the CO merger, MIA was an Express station for UA with only seasonal mainline service.

It was an express station with mainline staff year-round, though.

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