I think it is a good idea, DL is finally recognizing its loyal customers and rewarding them. It is about time someone had the balls to do it.

I'd say if there's one thing that wasn't changed, it's the fact that SkyMiles, like most FF systems, are still a bundle of confusion. I'll stick to my WN rebate program. That way I can book without spending hours on fare class and mileage optimization.

But after looking through a lot of thoughts on it, it seems like two type of people will be affected (U.S. flyers here). First is the mileage runner/cheap fare flyer that made 25,000 without spending $2,500. That customer is still valuable to DL (DL wouldn't sell those tickets if they weren't valuable to them), but to a low extent compared to others. The second is the high-yield, low-mileage traveler like Cubsrule. And it's this the group I don't understand why DL would want to shun. Making it a revenue system and making an "and" system doesn't reward the high-yield customers as much as it hurts the low-yielding kind. So overall I can see a few less elites under the new plan and a some dropping down a tier. I also see less need to be loyal to DL if you're going to lose out. Interesting plan.

Any airline's BEST customers are those who fly a lot of miles AND buy higher yield tickets. Ulitmately, the mileage runner who buys cheap transcons doesnt have much value to an airline's FF program. Remember, its just as likely that those seats would be sold to a once a year flyer who may not even be part of the FF program. Similarly, someone who flies twice a year and earns 25000 miles (for US based fliers) isn't the ideal High Value Customer.

DL and most other legacy airlines are shifting towards the High Value Customer concept and that means rewarding those who spend the most and fly the most with the best benefits. Frequent flyers who don't spend a lot wont lose all status, they just won't be able to earn the top levels without spending more money. In the end it is a business and an airline wants to give its perks to those who generate the most revenue.

Quoting panamair (Reply 4): I believe the thresholds are something like: $2500 for Silver (currently 25,000 MQMs) $5000 for Gold (currently 50,000 MQMs) $7500 for Platinum (currently 75,000 MQMs) $12500 for Diamond (currently 125,000 MQMs) which basically amounts to $0.10 per MQM.

God I hope those numbers are accurate!! I would be able to qualify for Diamond within 4-5 months at that price!!

I hope AA switches to a similar system, would make it so much easier for me to re-qualify for Exec Plat every year.

Quoting rivervisual (Reply 52): In the end it is a business and an airline wants to give its perks to those who generate the most revenue.

But as we've discussed, this program does not reward those who generate the most revenue. WN does.

Quoting rivervisual (Reply 52): Similarly, someone who flies twice a year and earns 25000 miles (for US based fliers) isn't the ideal High Value Customer.

Depends on the fare class, no? If it's two full fare J tickets to Asia, I think I'd probably want to keep that person in the fold. A lot of us don't do too many longhauls but do do them regularly (we have continual, not continuous, longhauls).

Quoting rivervisual (Reply 52): Any airline's BEST customers are those who fly a lot of miles AND buy higher yield tickets. Ulitmately, the mileage runner who buys cheap transcons doesnt have much value to an airline's FF program.

And, neither does the occasional flyer who has to buy expensive tickets out of necessity.

I have the misfortune to live in one DL fortress hub city (MSP), with my parents in another DL fortress (DTW). Even at non-holiday periods, DL charges at least $400 round trip between MSP and DTW, and for peak holiday travel days, the fares can be close to $600.

If I fly DL 4x year MSP-DTW-MSP at an average fare of $450 round trip, I would pay $1,800 in airfare, but earn just 4,224 SkyMiles. If DL switched to a purely $$ based elite qualification system, I'd qualify for silver if I took four trips to DTW and two trips from MSP to the west coast at $350 round trip each.

Although I'd really appreciate being an elite, Elite status is not meant for travellers who take just one short / mid haul domestic trip every other month, and that's why I think DL should use both mileage and fare to determine elite status.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 55): Although I'd really appreciate being an elite, Elite status is not meant for travellers who take just one short / mid haul domestic trip every other month, and that's why I think DL should use both mileage and fare to determine elite status.

Part of the problem at DL - and the reason that WN's system works so well - is that fares don't necessarily correlate with trip length on DL. On WN in the same class of service, BNA-JAX is going to cost much less than BNA-LAX. But if we were to compare, say, BNA-CLT with BNA-LAX on DL, that's not necessarily true.

So while we say that WN is "revenue based," because revenue and miles flown are more closely tied at WN, WN actually rewards both as well as rewarding elites and those who buy higher fare class tickets. For DL to go to a 'true' revenue-based system and have it work, they'd have to stop doing things like charging $1,200 for a refundable MEM-ORD roundtrip.

Will this apply only for flights on DL metal or for all of SkyTeam flights? FOr example if I fly KE from JFK-ICN-BKK in JCL and it is booked on the KE code will I qualify for MQD's in the SkyMiles programme or not?

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 57): FOr example if I fly KE from JFK-ICN-BKK in JCL and it is booked on the KE code will I qualify for MQD's in the SkyMiles programme or not?

No, unless your KE-marketed/coded/operated flights are ticketed on Delta ticket stock (i.e., your ticket begins with "006").

The other way to get MQDs for such an itinerary would be to book the itinerary on the DL code instead (even though it's all operated by KE).

Thanks panamair.. I figured as much but appreciate your feedback. Totally makes sense since the $$$ would all go to DL on the DL code or codeshare.

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 53):

Read the details. You must accrue the MQM's, or MQS's *AND* the money minimum $12,500 to qualify for Diamond. And it damn sure is likely that if you fly 125,000 MQM's, or 140 flight segments, you will have spent a heck of a lot more than $12,500 in ticket costs. A segment is one takeoff and landing, and qualifying miles are miles flown so they're not giving you status at a less accrual rate today......they're simply adding the revenue component to the existing program.
The exemption to the money qualification is that AMEX users will have the money waived if they spend $25K during the year; they now otherwise receive 10K MQM's when that spending threshold has been reached each year, and 20K in MQM's if you charge $50K with the AMEX Reserve card.
So, if you're not going to fly a significantly larger amount on DL to qualify by miles or segments, you're not going to get a status boost from just increased spending on DL tickets.

I wish all airlines would do this. I remember when WN rolled out their new program, many people didn't like it. I think the people who spend the most should be rewarded. It will be better for these high spenders too; hopefully it will curtail flights with 24 First Class seats and 60 on the upgrade list. I'm not sure how many people who truly travel a lot for business will be affected. I mean, I would think they are already spending thousands per year on travel so they should be fine.
I'm sure UA and AA will do something similar, at least I hope. Otherwise DL will probably reverse its decision.

Reading these MQD requirements, I sure hope we see fewer and fewer people claim that flights under JVs are "metal neutral". Here's another example that that's simply an a.net myth.

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 60): And it damn sure is likely that if you fly 125,000 MQM's, or 140 flight segments, you will have spent a heck of a lot more than $12,500 in ticket costs.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 61): I mean, I would think they are already spending thousands per year on travel so they should be fine.

  

If anyone travels with any decent frequency to earn these high mileage totals, odds are they likely have spent quite a bit on the airline already.

These added qualification will likely churn out the uber discount traveler that finds the $500 sale Europe ticket, or uses the $249 transcon fares to rack up miles. Yes 5 transons would get you 25,000 miles, but that client might barely spend $1,200 on DL.

Over time, I actually hope Delta and others further expand on this, and make spending the primary consideration for earning of both miles/points and status.
I think programs like SWA, JetBlue, Virgin America and some foreign ones that look at spending are much more better aligned to identify customer value to the enterprise the same manner tons of industries outside airlines also look at spending as the key measure in their loyalty programs.

This really adds a new perspective to MQM rollovers. I earned Gold for 2013 partially due to the fact that I started 2012 with a big pile of rollover miles. I'd have to go back and look at my receipts, but I may have spent less than $5k last year. So under the new system, I would have been only silver for 2013, but would have had more than 30k miles to roll into 2014 qualification. But those rollover miles wouldn't mean a thing unless I spent at least $2500 in 2013. So this really kills the easy elite qualifications that people have been getting the past few years with rollovers. It should appease a lot of the complaints you read over on FT about the recent dilution of upper elite ranks. But it also makes me less interested in keeping all my miles on DL. For the past efw years I've been very loyal to DL, primarily because I was excited about the concept that my excess MQMs wouldn't disappear. But rollover miles are less valuable now. As pointed out by earlier posters, it's actually hard not to hit the dollar figures when you fly the miles. But if you are relying on the rollover miles to make status, you get can get killed by the dollar requirement.

DL will have tons of Silvers with over 25k and even 50k rollover miles in 2015, and all of those fliers would have been Gold or Platinum in the current system.

What impact (if any) will this have on lifetime gold members-2mm ?

Quoting flflyer (Reply 66):

That was mentioned in the FAQs on delta.com. Million milers with lifetime status keep that status. But if they are trying to qualify for a higher level, they are under the same requirements as everyone else. It also said that million milers (like everyone else, it seems) must spend at least $2500/year to keep their rollover miles active. So a lifetime gold can't fly 15k miles per year for 5 years and suddenly qualify for platinum for a year due to the accumulated rollover miles.

Today AA started status matching top-tier Delta DMs to EXP. No flying requirement needed - straight up status match.

Not a coincidence, and a strong indiciation that other airlines are going to exploit Delta's blunder, not follow.

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 46): Or if it significantly pares down the ranks of elites, thereby increasing the upgrade chances for those who remain, along with other small changes like the 100% bonus for premium cabins, I can see this possibly turning SkyMiles into the BEST program in the industry.

I don't for on second believe this will pare down the ranks of elites. Sorry, but despite perception one might get from reading FlyerTalk, "mileage runners" aren't a significant part of the FF base.

Essentially you are paring down a small percentage of the FF base, while giving the entire base a perception that they aren't valued unless they spend certain amounts. But the real problem is this: even if most people make that pay amount regardless, when deciding loyalty, why go loyal with the carrier that adds that restriction, when you don't have to worry about elsewhere? Sure, I might be "positive" I'm going to spend $5,000 and fly 50,000 miles in January, but if come December I only spent $4,400, I sure will be glad I didn't have to worry about a spend requirement. Which, by the way, excludes partner airlines and excludes taxes (a big deal for international tickets, especially tax loving Europe).

And this doesn't solve the fact that SkyMiles are virtually useless for reward availability at reasonable redemption rates, or that Delta has ludicrous ristrictions on upgrade awards/coupons.

[Edited 2013-01-17 12:29:32]

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 68): I don't for on second believe this will pare down the ranks of elites. Sorry, but despite perception one might get from reading FlyerTalk, "mileage runners" aren't a significant part of the FF base.

No, it won't, and that's the problem. All it does is hurt passengers' perceptions of Delta. A truly revenue-based program would be smart and, I think, welcomed. This isn't that.

Talk about dipping one toe in. Either DL should go all revenue based or not. The revenue and mileage correlation doesn't add up as one can spend $12,500 running back and forth to EU on 400r/t fares...

That said, the biggest issue I see with the new program as someone who flies DL is the M fare MQM reduction and the inability to count JV ticketed flights as MQDs moving forward....

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 2): Good luck to DL. Im sure many FF's will scream, but put your money where your mouth is. Many people who already are on the higher echelons of the elite programs probably wont be affected by this. I think it is the lower tiers that will get ticked off.

And in truth, the amount of flying to make that monetary threshold really IS minimal if you do ANY amount of flying more than a handful of times a year. I usually fly around 5x a year, with tix around $400 a pop for discount fares, so throw in a couple junk trips to FL or another trip in that range and I'd be right at $2500 or so spend. Granted that wouldn't get me anywhere near elite status, but that money adds up quickly.

I really don't understand all of the jumping to conclusions about these changes as nearly none of them go into effect until January 2014, which will affect Medallion status in 2015. That's a long way off, and this program has been officially announced for less than a day. As regular business travelers now know about these new requirements, I think most of them will pay a little more attention to how much their tickets cost this year. Most of them will probably realize they'll be unaffected and not worry about it at all. Others (like myself) who fly a couple of transcontinental roundtrips and maybe one transoceanic roundtrip each year and make Silver or possibly Gold with those miles will look a little harder. Either they'll decide they don't want to spend any more and will drop down to Silver or out of the Medallion ranks altogether, or they'll decide to spend a little more to make the revenue threshold. Either way, Delta wins. They have either eliminated a non-moneymaking (however loyal in their heart) customer from unwarranted elite status, or they have eked out a little more revenue to justify their elite status.

I think in time we should expect to see these dollar thresholds increased and perhaps the mileage and segment requirements eliminated altogether. I could also see an offer where you spend maybe $2,500 and fly 25k MQM's or spend $10k and fly 10k MQM's to make silver. Or $15k and no MQM requirement.

I have a friend who regularly flew ATL-DUS-ZRH or ATL-MUC-ZRH in J paying about $10k each roundtrip. I know that trip sure as hell made Delta a lot more money than the other friends who fly ATL-SFO about every other month on $250 excursion fares leaving on a Tuesday and returning on a Saturday. In that scenario, the ATL-SFO'ers spent a sixth as much and qualified as Silver Medallions. The ATL-ZRH'er made Delta a lot more revenue and a lot more profit, but the he gets no Medallion status. That fails to reward your more profitable passengers, which is the entire point of any loyalty program. These changes aim to weed out anomalies like the situations above.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 63): These added qualification will likely churn out the uber discount traveler that finds the $500 sale Europe ticket, or uses the $249 transcon fares to rack up miles.

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 70): The revenue and mileage correlation doesn't add up as one can spend $12,500 running back and forth to EU on 400r/t fares...

Yeah, but who pays fares like this anymore? On a regular basis? How many people regularly fly roundtrip coast-to-coast for $249 anymore or U.S. to Europe for $400? Those prices are pretty low even for sale fares.

Like I said earlier, this would have made more sense years ago in the days of $99 one-way U.S. coast-to-coast fares, but it's a moot point now. The only people this is going to affect are those people who nickel-and-dime their way to barely making Silver status, but to do that, they're probably concentrating all their travel on DL anyway and taking multiple flights all year long, so do you really want to tell them that loyalty, small as it is, isn't valued? The negative PR this is going to generate and the administrative and logisitc questions and issues can't possibly be worth trying to save a few $$$ in perks to those nickel-and-dimers.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 72): I have a friend who regularly flew ATL-DUS-ZRH or ATL-MUC-ZRH in J paying about $10k each roundtrip.

If someone regularly flies that trip, there's no way he wouldn't have Medallion status. He'd practically be silver in slightl over two trips.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 73): Yeah, but who pays fares like this anymore? On a regular basis? How many people regularly fly roundtrip coast-to-coast for $249 anymore or U.S. to Europe for $400? Those prices are pretty low even for sale fares.

$400 round-trip to Europe before taxes isn't rare. And, remember, the elite qualifying dollar amounts are pre-tax on Delta.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 73): The negative PR this is going to generate and the administrative and logisitc questions and issues can't possibly be worth trying to save a few $$$ in perks to those nickel-and-dimers.

Bingo.

I never understood the airlines' decision to base status on miles/segments and NOT on revenue. If you truly want to reward those folks who are helping you make money, tier it by revenue. That separates the wheat from the chaff and rewards only those who are pumping the most into your airline.

DL has led the industry in a number of ways lately - especially in their labor relations. This is likely something UA, AA and the others will emulate before long.

Over rewarding frequent fliers cuts down on revenue generation for biz and first class. Its one factor in airlines cutting down the number of first class seats. Perhaps the majors will follow the lead of Virgin America and offer discounted upgrades from E+ etc to J from a period say between 24 and 6 hours before departure. The seats left could then be "given" away to the frequent fliers. More revenue generation potential for the airline.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 76): I never understood the airlines' decision to base status on miles/segments and NOT on revenue.

Airlines never really thought people would game the system to the degree that they do with mileage runs to earn status. Even Crandall admitted he made a huge mistake pricing the lifetime AAirpass at $250,000 when it first came out. He thought they'd sell a few to companies for their CEOs, etc., but later admitted that "the public outsmarted us."

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 75): $400 round-trip to Europe before taxes isn't rare. And, remember, the elite qualifying dollar amounts are pre-tax on Delta.

Those $400 fares always include a big "taxes and fees component." When you look closely at the fees, there is always a big fuel surcharge included. That surcharge is counted toward qualification. Only the government-imposed taxes are not.

For example, I just did a dummy booking for BZN-CPH in February. It returns a base fare of $299.40 and taxes/fees of $625.20 for a total cost of $924.60 (a very good deal for BZN, btw). On closer examination, $516 of the taxes/fees is a "carrier-imposed international surcharge." I'm not completely sure about how the math works on all of the other fees, but it seems that well over $800 of the fare would count for qualification. The itinerary also counts for 11,080 MQMs via MSP and AMS (could get more MQMs for similar fare via other hubs). So this particular fare earns proportionately fewer dollars than miles to count toward qualification, but it's not as lopsided as if only the $299 base fare was counted.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 61): I wish all airlines would do this. I remember when WN rolled out their new program, many people didn't like it. I think the people who spend the most should be rewarded. It will be better for these high spenders too; hopefully it will curtail flights with 24 First Class seats and 60 on the upgrade list. I'm not sure how many people who truly travel a lot for business will be affected. I mean, I would think they are already spending thousands per year on travel so they should be fine. I'm sure UA and AA will do something similar, at least I hope. Otherwise DL will probably reverse its decision.

I really like WN's RR 2.0 vs. the original RR. When I have a chance to talk to people about it, I explain it this way. In the old system you needed 16 one ways to get a free round trip. That standard award could be used on any route, subject to availability. So after X number of rewards are claimed on that flight, its done and no more. The new system being all points allows you to redeem based on the air fare itself. So in the absolute best care scenario now you could actually get a round trip flight for just under 8300 points during those $69 fare sales that happen a few times a year. So that's a free round trip after spending less than $1400 on air fare...which can break down to just a couple transcons/business select flights. Of course you can rack up the points faster with the credit card and such, but that's just a quick example when it comes to flying. The other nice thing they don't expire and there aren't any blackouts. If the fare is available and you have the points, you can buy it.

If DL is smart they'll push through and go all the way and enjoy the increased revenue that will come from a smarter program. The days of rewarding mile runners that don't contribute much to the bottom line must end.

Quoting questions (Reply 16): DL should dump the miles and segments requirement. The program should be based only on revenue spent.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 69): A truly revenue-based program would be smart and, I think, welcomed.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 76): If you truly want to reward those folks who are helping you make money, tier it by revenue.

I agree.

Hi All,

After a night to sleep on it, I am most flabbergasted by how they cut their international partners. As a fan of SkyTeam in general, they have absolutely gutted their partners outside of AM, AF, and KL. I live in the UK (and it must be recognized as such because I have not received an email regarding the plan update), and I was looking forward to flying UX to Madrid, RO to Bucharest, and KE to Seoul this year. It seems that now those trips will all be booked on AF or KL so I can ensure that I get 100% MQM.

And while from a financial standpoint, I completely understand the MQD and it won't even affect me (as of now) since I live in the UK, I still feel a sense of betrayal. While I understand some (and certainly on FT) like to boast about how much you spend with Delta, typically that person don't spend a dime or very little of their own money. Their employer does and gets to take the deduction on its tax return. However, I have made Silver and now Gold off of my own dime, meticulously spending time ensuring that I was on flights that qualified. While my spend is probably around 5k anyway, it still says to me that you only value business customers.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 68): Today AA started status matching top-tier Delta DMs to EXP. No flying requirement needed - straight up status match. Not a coincidence, and a strong indiciation that other airlines are going to exploit Delta's blunder, not follow.

Do you have details? While it pains me to leave DL, I quite like BA and it is much easier from LHR. I will also enjoy trying out CX and other oneworld airlines. Again, sad to consider leaving SkyTeam, but I am afraid with DL's disrespect to the rest of the alliance, it might be time to go.

Regards,

Team

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 76): I never understood the airlines' decision to base status on miles/segments and NOT on revenue.

It's simple: when the programs started, there wasn't as much discounting. A lot has changed since then.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 74): If someone regularly flies that trip, there's no way he wouldn't have Medallion status. He'd practically be silver in slightl over two trips.

My point was that that making that journey once was far more profitable for DL than the multiple cheap ATL-SFO journeys. Yet, making the transatlantic trip once wouldn't get you Silver Medallion under today's scheme or even under the new scheme with the MQD's. That's not the point of the program.

Yes, practically speaking, making that journey a couple of times would get you to Silver (and maybe Gold under the new scheme). And the frequent L/Q/T cross-country flyer that only spent $1,500-$2,000 wouldn't get any Medallion status. That's on the right track.

Why can't US carriers do what the rest of the world has always done: Don't give away miles on cheap fares?
It's simple, effective and achieves the same goal without adding complexity to the program.

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 81): I was looking forward to flying UX to Madrid, RO to Bucharest, and KE to Seoul this year. It seems that now those trips will all be booked on AF or KL so I can ensure that I get 100% MQM.

If you're traveling this year, go ahead and take UX/RO/KE. The changes don't become effective until 2014.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 85): changes don't become effective until 2014.

From this website: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/earn-miles/earn-miles-with-partners/airlines/air-europa.smt-gold.html

Beginning March 1, 2013, it looks like flying UX in business would only get you 50% MQM accrual which is a travesty. Maybe the dawning of the death of alliances is nigh and only mega JV partners are going to be held on the same level as the airline itself.

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 86): Beginning March 1, 2013, it looks like flying UX in business would only get you 50% MQM accrual which is a travesty. Maybe the dawning of the death of alliances is nigh and only mega JV partners are going to be held on the same level as the airline itself.

It's not only UX. There will be a systematic gutting of MQMs across all SkyTeam partners except AM/KL/AF/AZ. A friend of mine who flies DL four times a year (enough to make GM, as he flies between the Philippines and the U.S.) had this to say: "F*** Delta".

In a part of the world where there is very little JV coverage (only DL and KE here, for example), this sort of devaluation not only gives people a major disincentive to stick with Delta, but also devalues the entire alliance as a whole. In effect, this is a systematic gutting of the program, and while those who are spend enough can enjoy their perks (and more), those who go out of their way to fly Delta, but are not blessed with the pockets to spend full-fare, get the scraps, or worse, nothing. As far as I'm concerned, not all "low-revenue" elites are mileage runners who game their way to status: some of us really take the effort to fly Delta because we see the benefits to flying with them, and that loyalty ought to be important. Now that the incentive's gone, what's the point?

Sure, DL gets to reward its high-spend customers, but seriously, I don't think they should go around pontificating that they're targeting their "most valuable" customers. Sure, to their bottom line, they are, but to many people, the term "most valuable" is loaded with connotations that go beyond DL's bottom line. I better hope they understand that.

[Edited 2013-01-18 08:36:28]

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 87): It's not only UX. There will be a systematic gutting of MQMs across all SkyTeam partners except AM/KL/AF/AZ. A friend of [...] Stations that go beyond DL's bottom line. I better hope they understand that.

All very good points Akiestar. I would seem to be in the same boat as you. Upon further reflection, it would seem that while this MQD requirement does not affect non-US residents. Delta's strategy to cull the ranks of foreign Medallion members is to cut 75% of their earnings potential on all but a few airlines. They also did this in a way that does not allow non-US residents much time to plan unlike the MQD requirement.

Regards,

Team

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 87): while those who are spend enough can enjoy their perks (and more),

Is that not the whole point of a loyalty program ?

Look, my supermarket gives out points for every dollar we spent. If I went to a different chain each week I would not attain much, but being loyal to a single store give me money regular cash back, added discount on items, and even discounts on outside things like when I purchase fuel.

To me, the concept of spend more = get more, is the most basic and fair measure one can have.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 89): Look, my supermarket gives out points for every dollar we spent. If I went to a different chain each week I would not attain much, but being loyal to a single store give me money regular cash back, added discount on items, and even discounts on outside things like when I purchase fuel. To me, the concept of spend more = get more, is the most basic and fair measure one can have.

That analogy would apply...if I was living in the United States. Unfortunately, I don't.

Unless DL is suddenly granted eighth-freedom rights and will fly me to domestic points within the Philippines, or it's suddenly given the rights to fly me intra-Asia on their metal aside from Japan, there are not that many options for me to fly and earn exclusively on DL metal. And, frankly, I don't think we non-American Skymiles members should be penalized for it.

I exclusively fly DL and partners for all my long-haul travel, so loyalty, at least for many of those affected by these changes, is simply more than just spending more money on an airline that, in this part of the world, only flies us to Japan or the U.S.

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 90): Unless DL is suddenly granted eighth-freedom rights and will fly me to domestic points within the Philippines, or it's suddenly given the rights to fly me intra-Asia on their metal aside from Japan, there are not that many options for me to fly and earn exclusively on DL metal.

I guess I don't understand why you feel entitled to DL miles for any activity besides flying on DL metal. It seems to me that any miles they give you for flying on PR or whoever are gratuitous.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 91): I guess I don't understand why you feel entitled to DL miles for any activity besides flying on DL metal. It seems to me that any miles they give you for flying on PR or whoever are gratuitous.

Simple. First, DL is a member of SkyTeam.

Second, because my frequent flyer program is a SkyTeam partner FFP, I should be entitled to earn DL miles on SkyTeam partner carriers (which I've been flying more often than DL itself due to my travel patterns), subject of course to the prerequisite terms and conditions (to the point that at one time, I had to specifically ask for specific booking classes just to accrue 100% MQMs on CZ).

I don't think that's gratuitous at all, and I find it utterly incredulous that you think so. If you think it's so gratuitous, then why on Earth is DL even in an airline alliance to begin with if they wanted to be so stingy with mileage accrual in the first place?   

(And, just so you know, I don't earn DL miles for flying PR. In fact, 5J was the WorldPerks partner for the Philippines when NW was still around.)

[Edited 2013-01-18 09:50:40]

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 68): And this doesn't solve the fact that SkyMiles are virtually useless for reward availability at reasonable redemption rates, or that Delta has ludicrous ristrictions on upgrade awards/coupons.

I'd expect to hear about other changes in the program sometime in the next several months. We've had one show drop. The benefits shoe is still hanging. If the goal is to reduce the ranks of top-tier elites and focus on the high revenue generators, expect that those folks will be treated to a higher level of benefits.

The MQD thing is just the beginning.

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 92): I don't think that's gratuitous at all, and I find it utterly incredulous that you think so. If you think it's so gratuitous, then why on Earth is DL even in an airline alliance to begin with if they wanted to be so stingy with mileage accrual in the first place?

To me, alliances are much more about the benefits when flying (some of which DL doesn't do a very good job of) - things like seamless connections, lounge access, etc. - than miles. I say that because miles, especially on Delta, are very disconnected from flying as it is. To each his own . . .

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 93): The benefits shoe is still hanging. If the goal is to reduce the ranks of top-tier elites and focus on the high revenue generators, expect that those folks will be treated to a higher level of benefits.

The trouble is that the MQD thresholds make it clear that the program as currently designed is much more about punishing low revenue passengers than rewarding high revenue passengers because they are far too low to truly reward high revenue passengers.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 94): The trouble is that the MQD thresholds make it clear that the program as currently designed is much more about punishing low revenue passengers than rewarding high revenue passengers because they are far too low to truly reward high revenue passengers.

If the new benefits are as generous as I suspect they will be, then it will make prefect sense. There are far too many noncontributing (in terms of revenue) high-level elites to provide the level of benefits that Delta would like to provide at the highest tiers. So they have to redefine the tiers in order to make the value proposition (and economics) work.

Frankly, it all seems sort of silly. For high-level elites, these thresholds are not at all onerous. Especially when considering the AMEX "pass". Anyone who is truly a Platinum or Diamond level road warrior should have no issue meeting these thresholds.

I have a sneaky suspicion that when they announce the new benefits packages, we'll see a lot of people find ways to spend more money with Delta. And isn't that the point?

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 95): There are far too many noncontributing (in terms of revenue) high-level elites to provide the level of benefits that Delta would like to provide at the highest tiers. So they have to redefine the tiers in order to make the value proposition (and economics) work.

I understand (and agree with) that, but I don't see a lot of culling based on the numbers DL has selected. They only require a spend of 10 cents a mile which can be done with little to no effort these days. I sometimes buy tickets in a higher fare class than what is available for flexibility purposes, but I can't recall the last time I saw a ticket that cheap for sale.

Doubling the number of MQDs required would have a much more significant effect without materially reducing the availability of elite tiers for true HVCs. For instance, somebody who gets silver with a paid J trip to Asia and then some domestic flying -- about the easiest way to get silver as far as the amount of flying required -- is going to spend far more than $5,000. I average well more than 20 cents a mile on my domestic DL flying, and I know many other business passengers who do too.

People seem to be confused about qualification with their j/v and alliance airlines. If you buy the ticket via DL, you qualify. They want the revenue channeled through them first regardless of the fact it's a j/v. It also gets YOU in the habit of doing everything via DL which saves them $$.

Cutting down on the overall numbers of elites will be very good for the elites who remain. It's not so great for those that are squeezed out but then you get to decide if DL (including schedule, price, service) work for you regardless of the frequent flyer program.

Economically, this is a no-brainer for any airline. I'm a bit surprised they didn't go straight revenue and build up qualification "points" by fare class. The higher the fare class, the more rapidly you move up the ranks. Straight cash homey!

Quoting airbazar (Reply 84): Why can't US carriers do what the rest of the world has always done: Don't give away miles on cheap fares? It's simple, effective and achieves the same goal without adding complexity to the program.

I agree, cheap fares should maybe not earn any miles, or like Air Canada you need to pay extra to get the miles included.
However this is actually physiological hard thing to do - you are taking taking candy away from the baby.

Its easier IMO, to simply bolt on this revenue litmus test which does not change peoples basic points earning ability.

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 90): That analogy would apply...if I was living in the United States. Unfortunately, I don't.

Which brings up another topic.

You are probably better off being a member of a program in your home country or region atleast.
Being an overseas member of any program will always going to be a challenge. Each program will always be focused on its home market competitive landscape and needs.

As an example some airlines try hard to steer you to their local partner instead. For example KLM/Northwest did this with them trying to swap each others members in North America and Europe some time back.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 95): There are far too many noncontributing (in terms of revenue) high-level elites

Amen to that. In recent years I have been amazed at the number of elites. For long time I have known and seen the numbers on paper for various airlines I've done work with, however it never really hit me until all the new check-in displays airlines have at gates these days and one can see 60 upgrade request on a little 737.

At the end being elite has indeed been devalued as its so common.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 95): Frankly, it all seems sort of silly. For high-level elites, these thresholds are not at all onerous. Especially when considering the AMEX "pass". Anyone who is truly a Platinum or Diamond level road warrior should have no issue meeting these thresholds.

Agreed. As mentioned prior, if you have any decent amount of travel over a year, getting over the dollar spend thresholds or churning your AMEX card should not be the challenge.

This will weed out some silvers, and make it so some annual golds who don't produce enough revenue will only makd silver, some plats only gold, etc.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 96): I understand (and agree with) that, but I don't see a lot of culling based on the numbers DL has selected. They only require a spend of 10 cents a mile which can be done with little to no effort these days. I sometimes buy tickets in a higher fare class than what is available for flexibility purposes, but I can't recall the last time I saw a ticket that cheap for sale.

But you are making that assumption based some sort of feeling. The folks at Delta based the levels on real world data. I think what it SHOULD tell you is that there a lot of people getting high-level status without giving Delta much revenue in return. They aren't trying to weed people like you out. They are trying to weed out the ones that can't even reach this minimal level of spend.

I think these folks are referred by some important folks at DL as "Diamondellas". They've managed to game the system in such a way that they receive extreme benefits in exchange for very little spend.