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chrisnh
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:37 pm

I really, really like the 'flying eagle' icon along the fuselage and wish that it (instead of the stripes) were on the tail.
 
martinrpo1
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 49):

Non-Americans love the new livery. I've asked many people that don't have a clue about aviation and they all said the new livery was unexpected, but gorgeous. They all said "WOW" when I first brought it out. Anetters had speculated for so long and they feel disappointed. But for the immense majority of Americans, the change was a success.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:48 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 40):
Some of you may have seen the ideas I was playing around with in the speculative threads a month or two ago; here's my take on a cleaner look that incorporates the logo into the tail:

It is not very original, logo on fuselage and logo on tail.

The tail is just blue and since that is what people will see first it diminishes the effect of the logo.

In putting the logo on the tail, you also had to omit the "stripes." As a form that is just as important as the triangle or star, the other forms associated with American.

Overall, I don't think the eagle works at that scale. It looks like a partridge. I imagine the designers of the logo (not you) toyed with that idea, but recognized the limitations of their own design, as well as the necessity to do something with the stripes. Your design choices seem driven by pure whim.
 
mats01776
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 49):

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 43):
Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 40):

Tail is too simplistic. The logo is not centered. There's too much blue and too little red. Doesn't work at all. Sorry.

aI'm glad we don't have the execs from AA relying on these comments. Yes, it doesn't have the eagle or AA on the tail or body of the aircraft, but it does scream "AMERICAN". I don't see what the problem with the tail is, it is an abstract version of the American flag. You have to get over yourselves. I have noticed that the non Americans seem more to liking the new look. The Americans, well, I am not sure what you want, but I think unless you have a crystal ball and can see that the future is clear and due to the new look AA will crash and burn, then unless you are an expert in banding, your comments are really ringing hollow with me.

I think you completely misunderstood AirPacific747's comment.
The "tail is too simplistic comment" refers not to the "stylized American Flag", but to the proposed alternative in Reply 40.

I understand that you require a person to be an expert in branding, to have a crystal ball, and AA to "crash and burn" for his opinion to not "ring hollow."

That is all well and good.

But then this question begs for an answer: What do you have for your opinion to not "ring hollow"?
 
777way
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:06 pm

Is there really need for a fourth thread on the subject? now fishing in desperation for more pro-views after the mountain load of dislikes?
 
quiet1
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:08 pm

For those of you who struggle to see a stylized AA in the new logo as I do -- I still can't see it: How many realize that the UA tulip is was actually a stylized U and A? (Only in the slanting left-to-right version.)

(Oops. I had the slant wrong the first time...)

[Edited 2013-01-19 08:23:57]
 
qqflyboy
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 40):

LOVE! This, or something like it, is what I would've loved to see on Thursday. Boo! I want this one.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
blink182
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 16):
The logo is an interesting mark that as shown will translate well in many applications, I just wish they'd quit trying to tell me it represents the eagle. If you're going to ditch the eagle then ditch the eagle. That silver gouge in the middle of the logo may be shaped like a beak, but that logo is not an eagle. I have no problem with a company deciding to go a totally different direction, and by itself I think the logo looks just fine, recognizable and inoffensive, but to claim that this logo is an evolution of the brand is a farce.

Agree. Most of us may see an eagle because we're all too familiar with AA's identity. Nonetheless, I don't know if a non avgeek would see it. A friend of mine commented that AA took BA's branding and made it appear Americanized. To me, this looks like AA tried to play with BA's speedmarque.

As for the flag, we get it, its American, but as Massimo Vignelli stated in his Bloomberg interview, if AA is going to put the flag on, then they should do it correctly. I think the flag idea's intentions were great, but the execution horrble; not only does the placement of the flag give the impression that the painters ran out of paint, the flag isn't even complete! Also, how will AA use that flag in other branding? The flag doesn't look cohesive.

I love that AA emphasizes the silver, but I think getting rid of the AA on the aircraft is a trAAvesty to AA's history. I can deal with an incomplete and poorly painted flag and an iffy "eagle," but that "AA" needs to be on the airplane.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
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Polot
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 54):
Is there really need for a fourth thread on the subject? now fishing in desperation for more pro-views after the mountain load of dislikes?

Probably because melodramatic people can't seem to stop whining about how this a great travesty that will forever ruin their lives so they continue posting to remind us all how much they hate it.
 
YYZbound
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:26 pm

To say that people are not going to fly AA because of their dislike of the paint scheme has got to be one of the stupidest things ever said on this website. Sorry folks..we're not going to lose money because of this. Just like we didn't MAKE money because of the previous livery.

If that concept were true then Southwest and EasyJet would have gone under years ago
 
Flightsimboy
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:52 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 54):
Is there really need for a fourth thread on the subject? now fishing in desperation for more pro-views after the mountain load of dislikes?

Totally agree with you!
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
tootallsd
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 60):
Quoting 777way (Reply 54):
Is there really need for a fourth thread on the subject? now fishing in desperation for more pro-views after the mountain load of dislikes?

Totally agree with you!

Quite right, there is no real need -- additions are happening in the sub-threads about clubs, gates, websites.

But honestly, it is hard to think of topic that gets approval in these forums. A lot of negative nancies to my opinion.
 
ben175
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:44 pm

After a day of recovery I can now say I LOVE the new livery. Well done, AA. A fresh, innovative rebranding.
 
olddominion727
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:49 pm

the tail on this livery already looks wind-blown and needs a fresh coat of paint--at least the 738 on a.net looks like it... because of the lame highlights inside of the stripes. anyone ever show the designers an American flag? the blue is not electric and is on the left side not the right. We saw SO many better and more modern liveries. Taking the best case and modifying this livery... put their new Eagle on the tail from top to bottom...the engines and fuselage look like they need something... this livery doesn't set well with me... though I like the direction they are headed in. I am glad they kept the Eagle... I think with the livery the merger with USAirways imminent and this livery proves it.
 
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Polot
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 63):
anyone ever show the designers an American flag? the blue is not electric and is on the left side not the right.

Have you ever seen an American flag? The blue matches what would be expected if it were on a flag pole and the color is not too far off. Obviously it is an interpretation, not a direct match of the flag.

By the way- the comments in these threads are quite amusing too, especially almost 6 years later: Delta's New Livery Is Out (by DAL767400ER Apr 7 2007 in Civil Aviation) Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part II (by OB1504 Apr 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2013-01-19 10:10:07]
 
UA787DEN
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:28 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 40):

I would have to say that tail looks infinite times better than the new AA tail.

The logo and color scheme has great potential, but the tail really has to grow on me. It seems overdone, with too many things going on, and in not very creative.

http://www.aa.com/homePage.do
The website is a nice, fresh update. Apply that to the tail, and you have one pretty darn good looking plane.

I overall like the new scheme, and the 738 looks pretty cool, but I still can't ignore that tail. Hopefully they change that.

What is the schedule for Aircraft painting?

[Edited 2013-01-19 10:31:06]
 
YYZbound
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:35 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 64):
By the way- the comments in these threads are quite amusing too, especially almost 6 years later:
Delta's New Livery Is Out (by DAL767400ER Apr 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)
Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part II (by OB1504 Apr 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

OMG thank you for posting those! I actually remember how that livery was first received on here. We were all SO mean!
 
timboflier215
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:38 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 54):

Is there really need for a fourth thread on the subject?
Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 60):
Totally agree with you!
Quoting tootallsd (Reply 61):
Quite right, there is no real need

If you're bored of discussing it, why open the flippin' thread in the first place?!
 
aacun
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:39 pm

The new livery is great! Im already used to the tail, and every non airline friend that I show it to tells me what a great job AA did in rebranding. We just need to get over it.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 64):
Delta's New Livery Is Out (by DAL767400ER Apr 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Great find! I'm glad to see that my remarks hold up over time. In another thread on the AA livery I stated my lack of fondness for the use of negative space, which is exactly what I said about the Delta livery six years ago.
International Homo of Mystery
 
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anfromme
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:49 pm

Quoting flood (Reply 15):
Bloomberg has a Q&A with original American Airlines designer Massimo Vignelli on the new look:

"But the American flag has 13 stripes, right? Not 11. Did American add only 11 stripes because they are in Chapter 11?"
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-logo

While I respect Vignelli's previous work, I think it's always a bit odd for the designer of the old logo and livery (one that lasted much longer than he ever would have dreamt) to speak out about a redesign. Of course he's not going to be happy with it, because it replaces his own work.
By the way, I count at least 12 stripes (13 if another gradient on the lower fuselage is taken into account), not 11. So the chapter 11 comment seems like a very cheap shot and a case of sour grapes. Same with his comments about the eagle. Not that I think the number of stripes matters all that much - it's a stylised US flag, after all. And I've never heard anybody complain about US Airways' logo not having the right number of stripes. The point is that both - radically different - approaches are immediately recognisable as referring to the US flag (they obviously are not the flag itself). By the way, just imagine Vignelli's design without the eagle, as he intended - I think the addition of the eagle is a major factor in the livery and logo surviving as long as they did.

I also have no idea what Vignelli means when he says "And there are only two colors shown instead of all three." I do see red, blue and white on the tail.

Funny to see that Vignelli's still such a fan of Helvetica, despite its ubiquitousness nowadays, which I think takes a lot away from Helvetica's impact. Funny, too, that his own design for AA came under heavy criticism back in the 60s for being too stark, too clean, too different. Much like Vignelli now criticises that the new design doesn't adhere to the principles he applied 45 years ago and wanted to be daring and different.

Quoting QANTASvJet (Reply 17):
The name could be reduced from billboard to something smaller, more self confident

I actually like the billboard-style they chose. They didn't go for bold, in your-face (think PanAm in the 1980s), but a much thinner look. The choice of colour underlines that - instead of going for a jarring blue, red or even plain black, they used a dark grey - on a light grey/silver fuselage. That's actually a pretty self-confident choice, I think. Sure, they could keep the font style and colour and just have "American" run on top of the window line. Just like Lufthansa, Germanwings, United Airlines, Air France, Swiss, Delta Air Lines, Philippine Airlines, Japan Airlines and countless others.
I'm still very happy they didn't go for that safe route.

Quoting xkorpyoh (Reply 5):
It simply says "here comes the "loud" "arrogant" "Ugly-American"... (a term sometimes used abroad to identify some american tourists).

I know exactly what you're talking about, but to me, the style of that tail doesn't symbolise that at all; of course, it looks American, but it looks relaxed, open and kind of sexy. Nothing like what you'd find on the back of a Ford F150 with a gun rack, because AA's new tail is too liberal an interpretation of the flag. No stars, many different gradients, possibly not quite the right number of stripes, etc.

Quoting goldenargosy (Reply 29):
I don't think an airline with a name like American can hide the fact that it's AMERICAN. I guess over the past 8 decades it has somehow managed to attract a few flyers who weren't offended by an American brand.

  

Quoting goldenargosy (Reply 29):

I've always loved the the expression "America. Love it or leave it".

Now, by contrast, that is something I wouldn't agree with and that I would actually perceive to fit right in with the "Ugly American" cliché.

Quoting Polot (Reply 58):
Probably because melodramatic people can't seem to stop whining about how this a great travesty that will forever ruin their lives so they continue posting to remind us all how much they hate it.

Maybe the admins should open a totally new forum then - alongside "Civil Aviation", "Trip Reports", etc., we'd get "Eternal AA Livery Debate"   

Quoting tootallsd (Reply 61):
But honestly, it is hard to think of topic that gets approval in these forums. A lot of negative nancies to my opinion.

  
I think that's the case with many enthusiast communities - they tend to be very change-averse, particularly when it comes to looks. When I was at school, a friend of mine was hugely into railways and he got really upset when Deutsche Bahn changed the livery on their locomotives, whereas I thought the new look (which with minor alterations survives to this day, 26 years later) was great.
42
 
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combatshadow
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:51 pm

olddominion,

by US flag law, the blue field of the US flag should always point forward, that is, the direction of travel or movement, as if the flag was being carried and moving forward. So the orientation of the flag on the tail for direction is correct. Which is why you'll always see the flag next to the reg doing the same thing.

I have no problem with the livery, except that the tail should be completed with the last red stripe that is missing.

why all the comments, when BA already does something similar with their flag, and to a lesser degree, AF, as well as many others?

I'm just a little offended that US patriotism was brought up and considered "crass".

[Edited 2013-01-19 10:54:52]

[Edited 2013-01-19 10:55:16]
Bob
 
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kanban
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:05 pm

The summery of this and the previous thread compiled while waiting comes down to two things:

People want change/excitement to happen .... and abhor it when it does. Except for those that want no change ever!

Then come the people that think painting airplane with the "one world" livery is exciting?
 
Braniff727
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:08 pm

I have to say I saw the livery first and loved the logo, but the tail really gave me pause. After seeing some of the close up photos of the intricate details of the tail, I frankly love it!

The retro aspect to me is the tail. I just think of planes from the '40s and '50s, and one thing is for sure, you won't miss that tail in a crowd. Even though I'm not a fan of American at all (Delta is my carrier of choice), I will say well done!

All of the negative comments remind me of when NW rebranded to the silver scheme, DL to their current scheme and so on. It's a change, but I think in the long run people will love it.
Climbing
 
laca773
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:22 pm

Does anyone know if they will be placing the logo on the winglets? I feel it they would look great with this new logo. Great design, especailly for the winglets, compared to the current aa.com.
 
777way
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:44 pm

Tail looks quite nice here, still find title font outdated for this scheme http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/640*360/american-airlines-new-liver.jpg
 
catdaddy63
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:46 pm

I'm still neutral on the new tail, the rest is fine. I want to see the new paint in the flesh before I make a final judgement. But, bottom line is that as long as they get me from point A to point B reliably, and at a competitive price, it really doesn't matter.
 
johnbecker
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:48 pm

Ill tell you what it doesn't do, it doesn't identify the airline, not that you'd want to really be identified with American anyway. But the point of all that advertising space is to create and identity. What it looks like is Elton John's Piano.

It's hard to imagine after all these years of Business schools and Marketing that all these Geniuses would come up with this mess. It blends in with all the other third world tails and that Family airlines abomination from Las Vegas that never flew a mile. What would be smarter is to adapt US Airway's scheme and go with that because it HAS AN IDENTITY, OR at least drop the tail and use the new logo (identity) across the tail. SOMETHING other than this abortion!
 
AA94
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 72):
People want change/excitement to happen .... and abhor it when it does. Except for those that want no change ever!

  
 
ckfred
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:56 pm

I was talking to a pilot yesterday, and he had some thoughts.

1. He thought the tail looked like the uniform shorts for the Harlem Globetrotters. I pointed out that the Globetrotters have vertical stripes, while the horizontal stripes of the tail look more like the jerseys of the U.S. national soccer team. He agreed.

2. The logo in and of itself isn't bad, but the eagle isn't as recognizable as it is on the old logo. He agreed that the "scissor eagle" that has been featured in every logo from the start of AA was getting a bit dated, but there has to be a design that makes the eagle in some form (perched, soaring, etc.) more prominant.

3. From the tail forward, the plane looks fairly good, although he would have prefered a paint that was a bit more reflective or shinier, to try and keep the look of bare metal. But the tail just looks like an after thought.
 
aacun
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:59 pm

I think everyone here, me included had made up their own idea of what WE would have liked for the new livery to be. And of course, when the final product is unveiled.... pronto!!!!! It isnt what we had in mind. So then comes denial and shock over what the livery looks like and what you would have liked it to be. And thats where all the negative comes from. But once again, the livery has been out for 3 days now, and this post is still on the top of the list. Everybody is still talking about it. That's what branding is meant to do. Keep you in people's mouths snd most inportantly, minds.......
 
johnbecker
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting aacun (Reply 80):
I think everyone here, me included had made up their own idea of what WE would have liked for the new livery to be. And of course, when the final product is unveiled.... pronto!!!!! It isnt what we had in mind. So then comes denial and shock over what the livery looks like and what you would have liked it to be. And thats where all the negative comes from. But once again, the livery has been out for 3 days now, and this post is still on the top of the list. Everybody is still talking about it. That's what branding is meant to do. Keep you in people's mouths snd most inportantly, minds.......

Well, personally, I'm not of the status quo around here and couldn't care less what any of them do, so the words "WE" and "shock" certainly play no role in my opinion. It's branding that is key here and it's where American sorely missed the mark, actually it's better described and will go down as one of the all time branding blunders in Corporate history and should more than likely NOT survive. We'll see if the little ego behind this mess admits defeat and makes changes before painting 600 airplanes. It's ok, Delta choked its way through 10 years of a decision making disorder to finally land on theirs, and theirs works.
 
aacun
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting JohnBecker (Reply 81):

Respect your opinion, even though I deffer.
 
tguman
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:55 pm

Quoting JohnBecker (Reply 77):
It's hard to imagine after all these years of Business schools and Marketing that all these Geniuses would come up with this mess.

Are you yourself someone who has gone through business school and marketing?

Quoting JohnBecker (Reply 81):
It's branding that is key here and it's where American sorely missed the mark, actually it's better described and will go down as one of the all time branding blunders in Corporate history and should more than likely NOT survive.

I fail to see how the tail doesn't scream "AMERICAN"
Life is a Mine Field.
 
timboflier215
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:00 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 72):

I think that's a little unfair when 99% of the negative comments refer to one specific part of the entire rebranding (the design chosen for the tail). Mostly, the livery forward of the tail, the logo, and the rebranding of the lounges/ menus/ credit cards has been applauded.

I've tried hard to like the tail, but I still find just a bit gaudy for my taste. I may grow to like it in time, but it didn't have the instant 'love it' that the rest of the rebranding has had for me.
 
frontierflyer
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:12 pm

I was chatting with a AA pilot today, said the eagle looked more like a Toucon ! I asked what the majority of his co workers thought, they where ok with the logo, not with the tail design . It's just doesn't match.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting PSAMD80 (Reply 44):
but for crying out loud, it's 45 years in service! It was time to change, update, modernize. I

You don't see Coca-Cola making major changes in its basic logo which still looks much like it did 125 years ago. They changed it for one year (1890-91) and then reverted to the original.
http://www.coca-cola.co.uk/125/history-of-coca-cola-logo.html

http://blog.crowdspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/coca_cola_logo.gif
 
mats01776
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting tguman (Reply 83):
I fail to see how the tail doesn't scream "AMERICAN"

Let me make an observation.

If the new tail design's ultimate marketing objective is to scream "AMERICAN" by closely associating this private-sector airline with the perceived policies and actions of U.S. Government, then it is a success, despite the amateurish execution.

There are a number of fine posts explaining why this tail design does not belong to the rest of the new, otherwise decent livery scheme.

There clearly are people who see the new tail design as fresh and bold, and others who see the same design as crass, juvenile, amateurish, and gaudy.

As they say, there is no accounting for taste.

[Edited 2013-01-19 14:16:13]
 
PHX787
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:22 pm

for those posting about "stats" and whatever, count me out as a naysayer. I like it because of its original and fresh design. But will it make me want to fly AA more? wellll if it gets me on a 77W then MAYBE ....but at the same time I could hop on a 77W on my trips to/from Japan.

Otherwise, unless AA really proves to me that their product is worth spending the money over then maybe.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 86):
You don't see Coca-Cola making major changes in its basic logo which still looks much like it did 125 years ago. They changed it for one year (1890-91) and then reverted to the original.

And for the love of god, who cares now? it's a done deal. There's really no use complaining about the logo at this point because for as long as we can conceivably think, this is our AA image.

How about this: in 20 or so years if AA changes its design, some of the A.nutters who only remember this design will begin complaining about the next design as how it doesn't represent the "classic AA."  
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DocLightning
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting combatshadow (Reply 71):
I'm just a little offended that US patriotism was brought up and considered "crass".

The way that Americans do it *is* crass and it *is* offense to non-Americans. Not because they hate America, but because even if we are the greatest country in the world (whatever that means), it's simply rude to go around beating our chest about how fantastic we are.

And that is going to turn a lot of non-American passengers off. You do not want to offend people with a commercial livery. Remember, AA is not a national monument; it is an airline based in the USA. Our other flag carriers, including US, invoke the colors and flag of the USA without being so in-your-face about it. Not even Air Force One has such a brazen display of patriotism as part of its livery.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:38 pm

Not sure if anybody posted this, but there is a petition already in case you want to participate: Fix the AA Tail ----> http://signon.org/sign/fix-the-aa-ta....fb23?source=s.icn.fb&r_by=6860950


(Created by a non-Airliners.net, not me!)
 
tguman
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:46 pm

Quoting Mats01776 (Reply 87):
there is no accounting for taste.

I do agree that there is no accounting for taste, however; I failed to see how that quoted members opinion of the branding

Quoting JohnBecker (Reply 81):
actually it's better described and will go down as one of the all time branding blunders in Corporate history

isn't a little bit of a stretch. To say that the member doesn't like the livery is one thing, but to claim an "all time branding blunder" is excessive given the fact that the tail does scream American. Its bold, and its new, it will feel less bold once its seen everywhere.

TGUman
Life is a Mine Field.
 
FSXJunkie
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:30 am

RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:59 pm

Quoting tguman (Reply 83):

Quoting JohnBecker (Reply 81):
It's branding that is key here and it's where American sorely missed the mark, actually it's better described and will go down as one of the all time branding blunders in Corporate history and should more than likely NOT survive.

I fail to see how the tail doesn't scream "AMERICAN"[/quote]

The flag doesn't have thirteen stripes and is done in a piano style, it's a hipster look not a patriotic look...and something you'd expect from a domestic budget airline, not a premier international airline.

Another thing the tail is busy and loud. For the former, it's not that easy on the eyes and is expensive, all those different shades of blue and red cost money. For the latter, in this age of terrorism in which we live, a tail that screams "I'm an American (as in United States) plane" from 20 nautical miles out isn't exactly that safe...for the passengers.

There's a difference between being unique on the tarmac and being skeet for Soviet surplus RPG's.

Don't get me completely wrong, as a domestic only "Patriot Air" the tail works, it's just that as a major international airline...they may as well have painted the Southern Cross (Confederate Battle flag) on the tail.
 
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Polot
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting FSXJunkie (Reply 92):

Terrorist are not as stupid as you seem to think they are. They already know what American airlines look like. They don't need the flag wrapped around the tail to suddenly realize it is an American airline.

Quoting FSXJunkie (Reply 92):
The flag doesn't have thirteen stripes and is done in a piano style, it's a hipster look not a patriotic look...and something you'd expect from a domestic budget airline, not a premier international airline.

Please do not use the term hipster if you do not know what it means.
 
PennStation
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:25 pm

I’m proud of the United States flag, and I don’t have any major concerns about carrying it to any other part of the world, but AA’s new tail appears to me to mock the flag by turning it into a garish caricature of itself. The American flag is already a busy design visually, and its design elements (colors and stars and/or stripes) have been used and misused so often in both advertising and decoration, that it’s very easy to turn into a cartoon when the designers play with proportion and orientation.

My two small suggestions that I think would make a world of difference:
1) Extend the red underneath the fuselage in the tail area so that it would have a slightly more curved appearance instead of being so angular, pyramidal, and chopped-off.
AND/OR
2) Have the blue field (with the current stripes) extend from the front of the vertical stabilizer all the way aft, but only over the top 30% or so of the tail. The current style red and white stripes would occupy the area below the blue field.
 
ORDfan
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:34 pm

Quoting xkorpyoh (Reply 90):
Not sure if anybody posted this, but there is a petition already in case you want to participate: Fix the AA Tail ----> http://signon.org/sign/fix-the-aa-ta...60950

Signed! Just putting my two cents in the unimpressed/disappointed camp. I think the new website is refreshingly modern and well done. The logo itself is okay, I think: it harkens back to old with a bit of "Air France" splashed in, not sure if that's a good thing or not.....the font is a bit boring, but okay again. However the tail I find to be absolutely atrocious - sure it screams "American" - but in the loudest, garish, most gaudy sense of the word. Its tacky-American at its worst. Not a good thing in my book... a bit like driving a Dodge Challenger around Europe...

Back to the drawing board, please.
 
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kanban
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:59 pm

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 84):

Can you imagine what the world will look like if every logo, design, paint scheme must pass a Facebook "like" criteria. Some people have no taste, some have no adventure, some want change daily, and some companies really don't care ...

the point was we went through 1000 posts fretting what was coming and we're near 500 and growing bemoaning what we got. nothing will change and I doubt anyone's love life will be seriously disrupted. There are bigger issues in the world than whether the new eagle looks like a toucan or a raptor..
 
Viscount724
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:02 am

It may look different on the real aircraft, but from some of the photos I've seen there doesn't seem to be much contrast between the white outlines around the doors and emergency exits and the painted fuselage. Seems like that could possibly be a safety issue as if not mistaken those outlines are supposed to be readily visible for rescue personnel etc. Not sure what the regulations say about that.

One example:

 
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anfromme
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 97):
It may look different on the real aircraft, but from some of the photos I've seen there doesn't seem to be much contrast between the white outlines around the doors and emergency exits and the painted fuselage. Seems like that could possibly be a safety issue as if not mistaken those outlines are supposed to be readily visible for rescue personnel etc. Not sure what the regulations say about that.

One example:

Interesting to what lengths people with a dislike of the new livery will go to try and discredit it. No, it's not just ugly, it's a safety hazard; never mind that if door frames were a problem, the choice of colour for them would be really easy to change without making any other changes whatsoever.

Firstly, I think that any part of the colour scheme that is subject to laws and regulations will have been approved beforehand. Given that fact alone, I think this is a moot point, never mind that as I said even if anything was wrong with the contrast from a regulator's point, it would be very easy to change anyway.
Secondly, I think that this particular photo isn't a great one to judge contrast by, as the plane is in a hangar with a few kilowatts' worth of bright lights shining at it. The fuselage looks almost white in this photo. Compare that with this photo
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...n-Airlines/Boeing-737-823/2214581/
in natural light where the door outlines are much more clearly visible. Certainly better than on the UA 787s, which incidentally seem to use the same colours as AA, but inverted, i.e. door frame light grey on white fuselage.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unite...s/Boeing-787-8-Dreamliner/2213241/

Also note how in this shot, the 777 in the background seems to be poised to get dark grey door outlines (although that may yet change once the full paint job is applied):
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...n-Airlines/Boeing-737-823/2214786/

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 88):
And for the love of god, who cares now? it's a done deal. There's really no use complaining about the logo at this point because for as long as we can conceivably think, this is our AA image.

How about this: in 20 or so years if AA changes its design, some of the A.nutters who only remember this design will begin complaining about the next design as how it doesn't represent the "classic AA."

Indeed!   
42
 
rampart
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RE: Official: New AA Livery - Jan/18 - Part 4

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:31 pm

I like it.

The whole package.

The tail was shocking at first. It grew on me rapidly. The highlights on the stripes are very nice.
The new logo is outstanding. Very clever.
Yes, I have taste. I have a good sense of graphic design.

Re: over-patriotic livery? I would not describe myself as a flag-waving patriot, and I am sensitive to the overt-American syndrome. That said, I don't think this livery is a big deal. It's a stylized flag, not much different than what US uses. It's red white and blue, like 2/3 of the national flags of the planet. It's American Airlines, which we knew already. I don't/didn't see a lot of hysteria over British Airways, Aeroflot, Air France, South African, Air Canada etc. incorporating flag motifs into their livery. There seems to be undue consternation from some of the Australian A.net contingent. Ansett, anyone?

But, as liveries attain nicknames, even good ones, like NW "Bowling Shoe", DL "Deltaflot" and "Wavy Gravy", BN "Easter Eggs", EA "Hockeystick", and AF "Barcode", this new AA will go down as...
"CubAAna de Aviacion".  
But I still like it.


PS, I enjoyed this video:
http://www.aa.com/newamerican?anchor...e=undefined&repositoryId=undefined
I was surprised to see what Tom Horton looked like. I thought he was some sort of monster.  

-Rampart

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