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JA
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:57 pm

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 42):
When pushed more my "friend" started to back peddle and said they laid off some folks.

I do not think your friend is that off. An airline planning to fly on February 25 isn't this quiet. An airline not sure of flying by that date should be sending in an extension request this week.
 
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49):
They are already living on borrowed time and as the DOT previously stated they typically do grant further extensions unless they truly feel the applicant was making appropriate progress and things were indeed lining to launch service imminently.
Quoting JA (Reply 50):
I do not think your friend is that off. An airline planning to fly on February 25 isn't this quiet. An airline not sure of flying by that date should be sending in an extension request this week.

What is especially problematic for them is that any additional extension must have been filed by 45 days before expiration of the authority. As far as I can tell they haven't asked for an additional extension. They haven't updated the news section of their website since October, even if they miraculously get their FAA authority and start up they are going to lose tons of money just from the very fact that no one would know with sufficient notice.
 
F9Animal
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:59 am

Sunking, dont take it personal, or discredit your source. CP has been very quiet, and many wondered if they were going to throw in the towel. If anything, the post got us answers. I have posted plenty of similar things in the past. No worries buddy!  
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
JA
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:31 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 51):
What is especially problematic for them is that any additional extension must have been filed by 45 days before expiration of the authority. As far as I can tell they haven't asked for an additional extension. They haven't updated the news section of their website since October, even if they miraculously get their FAA authority and start up they are going to lose tons of money just from the very fact that no one would know with sufficient notice.

Yep. In addition, if people are being let go before certification is complete, that is a big flag. Typically, the personnel needs increase as one approaches the beginning of operations.
 
AirDance
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:16 am

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...ornia-Pacific-FAA-airline-delayed/

According to this article from the San Diego Union-Tribune, "The airline — California Pacific — is in a dispute with the Federal Aviation Administration that has brought its licensing status back to the early stages of a complex process that can take months".
 
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Jamake1
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:29 am

It appears to me that CPA was perhaps, a bit too premature in taking delivery of an aircraft when all of their ducks were not in a row with the FAA...
Come fly the sun.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:32 pm

So CP Air is;

- In a dispute with the regulator that is supposed to bless them and provide ongoing oversight.

- Has a E170 sitting on the ramp collecting dust while bank account bleeds

- Not reached halfway mark in securing minimum needed launch funding.

- Approaching 3rd anniversary since first formally laying out their plans.

 

=
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 55):
It appears to me that CPA was perhaps, a bit too premature in taking delivery of an aircraft when all of their ducks were not in a row with the FAA...

I think it is pretty clear that management at CP has been poor to say the least, which does little to inspire people to invest much needed money into the company.
 
PSAjet17
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:47 pm

I'm at a point I don't know which tale to believe. Tom Morrow responded to my email with a "rumors are untrue" reply. Today's story in the San Diego paper seems to paint a picture of people sliding farther and farther down the hill they are trying to climb.

I would expect the Communications/PR department of a start up company to be flowing with upbeat stories about the new service, progress with certification, hiring expectations, etc. but instead we have heard almost nothing. It makes you think either no progress has been made or they are trying to hide the fact that things have gone backwards.

Earlier today on the FlyCPAir Facebook page, Tom Morrow commented on my post (same copy of his email to me that I posted here) with this statement: "We're still very much in business. We're still in the process of FAA certification. As with any organization, any former disgruntled employee can cause all sorts of unfounded rumors to fly." (I don't remember any of these rumors being attributed to former employees?)

Personally, I think that Ted Vallas may have surrounded himself with the wrong set of people. There was a big todo about Lawrence Settig joining the company but his last airline startup failed. Other board members were also part of failed airlines or in one case a former PSA director that was responsible for the decline in employee morale when he brought in his "henchmen" from his previous employer. Noted in this post is that the husband/wife team of Chief Pilot and Flight Attendant Training have both left CPAir (on their own or were they let go?) Were these people the best Vallas could find or were they just part of his circle of friends?

Guess we will have to wait and see what DOT/FAA do next with the CPAir Certification.
 
WarmNuts
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:49 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 45):
The reason we remember cases like FedEx are because those are the very rare exceptions. Every day, similar business plans fail and we don't even discuss them because we know this the norm. Commavia is simply stating the truth that the odds are against this particular venture. If they manage to overcome them, great, but if they don't, it's no surprise.

Having read the thread top-to-bottom, Commavia didn't simply state that the "odds are against this particular venture" as you claim. To the contrary, he was explicitly declarative in his claim that it wasn't simply a high-risk venture, but rather that it wasn't even a viable comcept to begin with:

Quoting commavia (Reply 27):
it was honestly a ridiculous concept from the start
Quoting commavia (Reply 27):
It's not just about having enough money. It's also about having a viable concept to begin with.

As a resident of San Diego, and as someone who used to log tens of thousands of miles each year in business travel, I would appreciate a qualification (and quantification) of this claimed lack of viability, supported by demographics and historical data. At first glance IMO it would appear as if the potential - albeit limited - is there. I can't speak to OAK or PHX, but I have rarely (if ever) been on a flight between SAN and SJC, SMF, or LAS that wasn't nearly (if not compeltely) full. With just under 1/3 of the county's population (about 900K people) located significantly closer to CLD than SAN, there seems to be a business case that would justify the venture.

Speaking of which, any start-up is a risky venture, and of course, some are riskier than others. But Commavia's post(s) seem to state that there was never any potential for success to begin with, a rather eye-raising claim in the absence of qualification. To the contrary, it would seem that issues surrounding FAA certification and a possible inadequate amount of start-up cap pose far greater threats to the venture's success than the very concept itself.
 
XEspecialist
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 45):
The reason we remember cases like FedEx are because those are the very rare exceptions. Every day, similar business plans fail and we don't even discuss them because we know this the norm. Commavia is simply stating the truth that the odds are against this particular venture. If they manage to overcome them, great, but if they don't, it's no surprise.
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 47):
"The bigger the risk, the greater the reward".

I fail to follow your logic.

AFAIK, there is no guarantee that if you take a crazy gamble, and it pays off then the rewards will be great.
Quoting mariner (Reply 48):
Daring investors (especially venture capitalists) will take enormous risks, knowing in advance that many of their bets will go down in flames.

But then, every so often, one risky investment takes off and gives them fabulous rewar

Richard Branson is often credited for saying the following: "If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline."
"I became an entrepreneur by mistake. Ever since then I've gone into business, not to make money, but because I think I can do it better than it's been done elsewhere. And, quite often, just out of personal frustration about the way it's been done by other people."
"My philosophy is that if I have any money I invest it in new ventures and not have it sitting around."
And finally: "One thing is certain in business. You and everyone around you will make mistakes."

Yes, I do not have gobs of money burning holes in my pockets to start an airline. People who invest their money in low risk financial instruments like CDs (certificate of deposits not the shiny round things), or stable blue chip stocks aren't likely to wake up one day to discover they are millionaires.

The airline industry is perceived as prestigious, yet full of egos, and full of even more failures. How many second and third tier countries have thrown millions and millions of their local currency into a money losing venture all in the name of having 'bragging rights' to a 'national airline'?

I challenge anyone to name an airline that never took a risk or was always presumed a 'sure thing' during its lifetime.

The industry is fickle. It is highly susceptible to economic calamity. It is cash intensive requiring huge outlays for equipment, fuel, and labor. There is a reason people get stars in their eyes when talking about the airline industry. In many ways it is the gold rush of our time.

Many will try, few will succeed.

After all of that, why do we need to feed this need for negativity? It's a hard cruel market to crack without hundreds of armchair CEOs nay-saying. Enough with the Debbie downers. Grab some popcorn, get a good seat, and enjoy the show.
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raddek
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:57 am

So if I want make a billion dollars, then I should start with a trillion then?  
 
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hawaiian717
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:06 pm

NBC San Diego has an article this morning about California Pacific. Nothing really new. Approval deadline is Feb 25, holdup is documentation.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...ia-Pacific-Airlines-191534921.html
 
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 62):

Funny, in this article:

Quote:
A spokesperson for the airline told NBC 7 San Diego through email that the company has a great relationship with the regional FAA office and that "they're working with us to get through the certification process.

while in the article posted by AirDance in reply 54 dated Feb. 5 (11 days ago):

Quote:
Vallas argues that the San Diego FAA office — the Flight Standards District Office, or FSDO — acted with bias against California Pacific in 2011 when it revoked and then reinstated its certification to commercially fly the E170 out of Palomar. Vallas said the suspension stifled fundraising efforts, led to a loss of key employees and made it all but impossible to promote the business.

“Given the consistent biased tone from the local FSDO, we have no choice than to escalate this issue and request that the current team be removed from this process as we move forward,” he wrote.


[Edited 2013-02-16 13:22:30]
 
BMI727
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 62):
Approval deadline is Feb 25, holdup is documentation.

The issue with these sorts of things is that they're always bureaucracy and documentation right up until they aren't.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
PSAjet17
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:33 pm

Tom Morrow, VP Communications CPAir, responded to a question on their Facebook page saying: "Tom Morrow FAA certification should be complete within the next four months and then we'll be off the runway and flying." (02/06/13)

Most of us have seen some reference to the must be operational date of Feb. 25, 2013. Did CPAir get another extension (and the websites are not updated) or is the PR department blowing smoke?
 
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usxguy
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:25 pm

Sometimes items don't get docketed as quickly as they should... keep an eye on airlineinfo.com
xx
 
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting usxguy (Reply 66):
Sometimes items don't get docketed as quickly as they should... keep an eye on airlineinfo.com

Ignore airlineinfo.com (subscribe to see the dockets? HA!). Go directly to the source, regulations.gov. CP's docket number is DOT-OST-2010-0126.

They are usually very good at posting things quickly there...the fact that there is nothing is worrying.
 
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sunking737
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:13 pm

Here is a link to today's L.A. Times about California Pacific....

http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...extension-20130225,0,4287214.story
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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0newair0
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:26 pm

The managment team basically dismantled last summer, CP Air is STILL trying to find new managment. (I believe) They will never fly.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
PSAjet17
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:05 pm

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 68):
Here is a link to today's L.A. Times about California Pacific....

http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...story

Emailed the author of this story and his reply was:
"Yes, the DOT told me yesterday that they had received an extension request that had yet to be posted. The DOT sent me a copy of the request via email."
 
slider
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 58):
Personally, I think that Ted Vallas may have surrounded himself with the wrong set of people.

Or, he's a well meaning old rich guy with the best intentions but is in way over his head. Vallas is a smart guy and I admire his work ethic and contributions, but he could just be grossly out of his element. Wouldn't be the first time--the airline graveyard is litered with names like that.

Quoting xespecialist (Reply 60):
Richard Branson is often credited for saying the following: "If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline."

I believe Sir Freddie Laker was originally attributed with that line, FYI.
 
OB1504
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:23 am

Quoting slider (Reply 71):
I believe Sir Freddie Laker was originally attributed with that line, FYI.

And I heard it was from C.R. Smith. One day we should have a thread to find the origin of that quote once and for all.
 
F9Animal
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:34 am

It has been a difficult process for CP. But.... They are still fighting, and show no signs of throwing in the towel. This airline will fly, and Vallas wont let his investment go without getting airborne. Dont count them out.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:53 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 73):

It has been a difficult process for CP. But.... They are still fighting, and show no signs of throwing in the towel. This airline will fly, and Vallas wont let his investment go without getting airborne. Dont count them out.

That airplane needed to be flying 2 weeks ago yesterday to meet even this new deadline.
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Boeing717200
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:51 pm

The runway at that airport is 4897 feet in length with 300 feet of pavement and a cliff as a safety area at the primary runway end. This gives it an airline TORA, ASDA and LDA of 4197 feet for an E170/proposed E190 operation under optimal conditions. That is not enough runway.

You can't compare this to Key West as I read in another thread. Key West has 4800 feet fully available with a 340+35 foot EMAS at the departure end of the primary runway designed to stop an RJ/corporate jet. Carlsbad airport does not.

http://keysnews.com/node/32671

The FAA is not going to sign off on a high probability of this occurring with a 70 to 100 seat plane:

http://www.spas.signonsandiego.com/u...ib/20060125/news_1mc25palomar.html
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
slider
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:36 pm

Quoting F9animal (Reply 73):
It has been a difficult process for CP. But.... They are still fighting, and show no signs of throwing in the towel. This airline will fly, and Vallas wont let his investment go without getting airborne. Dont count them out.

Never underestimate the ability and desire of people to throw away money in a well intentioned cause.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:51 pm

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 70):

Emailed the author of this story and his reply was:
"Yes, the DOT told me yesterday that they had received an extension request that had yet to be posted. The DOT sent me a copy of the request via email."

That extension request is now posted at regulations.gov. Document number is DOT-OST-2010-0126-0037.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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LAXintl
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:46 pm

Its basically a pleading asking the DOT to give CP Air an opended ended startup timeframe, while trying to paint all the stumbling blocks to date in the most positive light possible.

Some critical points:

o On November 20, 2012 the San Diego FSDO suspended California Pacific's 121. application. The suspension was immediately appealed.
o In early December as a result of the appeal the FAA moved the handling of the 121 application from the San Diego FSDO to the regional office in Los Angeles.
o On January 9, 2013 a planning meeting was held between California Pacific Airlines and the regional office of the FAA. A target of March 10, 2013 was established to resubmit the certification package.
o The regional FAA office has committed to move the application through the review process as quickly as possible. Completion is expected sometime this summer.

= A very iffy venture.

They say they have burned through $10mil so far, and continue working on raising the required launch capital. (remember its 3-years now and they still have not secured the required funding onboard)

I find it pretty interesting also they failed to even suggest a revised target extension date for the DOT to consider in the letter, but instead essentially left it as an open ended request.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
They say they have burned through $10mil so far, and continue working on raising the required launch capital. (remember its 3-years now and they still have not secured the required funding onboard)

I thought that was the amount invested so far in the airline, not the amount that they have necessarily burned through yet. But your legalese might be better than mine.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 78):
I find it pretty interesting also they failed to even suggest a revised target extension date for the DOT to consider in the letter, but instead essentially left it as an open ended request.

I found it interesting that despite "A target of March 10, 2013 was established to resubmit the certification package" during a meeting with the FAA on January 9th they waited until February 22 to ask the DOT for an extension (hoping that the DOT will not make a decision until after March 10 when they think they will be in the clear- nah couldn't be    )

What a fine beacon of great airline management.
 
Prost
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:41 am

I love this quote from the LA Times story: "Tom Morrow, a spokesman for the airline, said most of the delays so far are due to discrepancies over regulations."

I think we found the problem. Don't have have someone involved with the startup of an airline with a name that can be interpreted as 'tomorrow'.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:17 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 75):
This gives it an airline TORA, ASDA and LDA of 4197 feet for an E170/proposed E190 operation under optimal conditions. That is not enough runway.

I can tell you for a fact that 4,197ft is plenty of runway for those E-Jets on the routes suggested.


Dan  
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Boeing717200
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:51 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 81):


The issue with the certification is operational. They aren't just proposing 500 mile stages. They also have to contend with a 3.2 degree glideslope that increases the approach speed and landing distance requirements.

There is a reason the certification issue is "discrepancies over regulations". They are probably seeking a waiver and not getting what they want.

[Edited 2013-02-27 21:08:46]
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:01 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 82):
The issue with the certification is operational. They aren't just proposing 500 mile stages. They also have to contend with a 3.2 degree glideslope that increases the approach speed and landing distance requirements.

None of which are beyond the E-jet's capabilities. If there's an issue here it's not about the physical performance of the aircraft.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:44 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 83):

You can land a 737 in 4,200 feet with a 3.2 glideslope as well, but that doesn't mean the FAA will sign off on your operating certificate allowing you to do so.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:40 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 84):
You can land a 737 in 4,200 feet with a 3.2 glideslope as well, but that doesn't mean the FAA will sign off on your operating certificate allowing you to do so.

So as I've been saying, that would not be due to the performance of the aircraft but the discretion of the FAA. I find this interesting because in general the UK's CAA apply a higher benchmark than the FAA, and yet the CAA are happy to permit the E-jets to operate out of Code 2 airports. Why - because they can do so perfectly safely.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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Boeing717200
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:49 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 85):

This is a certification issue. I think your misinterpreting what I'm saying. Your looking at it from a raw aircraft performance standpoint. In terms of certification, it's more broad to include the performance, the likelihood of a fatal event, the history of the airport and whether the proposed operations poses undo risk to passengers.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:02 pm

The problem is PERFORMANCE... There is no T/O and Land DATA at CSB at the current time in CPAs hands.

You could not fly that E-170 out of there fully loaded to OAK with LAX as an ALT.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
dxBrian
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:35 pm

Why would you use LAX as an alternate for OAK? There are better choices, particularly SJC. but you also have SMF, SAC, STS and SFO (though I wouldn't use it for an operational alternate).
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting dxBrian (Reply 88):
Why would you use LAX as an alternate for OAK? There are better choices, particularly SJC. but you also have SMF, SAC, STS and SFO (though I wouldn't use it for an operational alternate).

Why?? Because it is the only legal field in the area. They will have to prove that they can meet economics by being able to fly to destination then to most distant alternate and carry reserve. If they can not do that out of CSB they will not be allowed to fly the route..
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:17 am

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 86):
This is a certification issue. I think your misinterpreting what I'm saying. Your looking at it from a raw aircraft performance standpoint.

Not at all, I was replying to what you said below, regarding the Declared Distances not being sufficient for an E 170. They in themselves are sufficient - this is what I have been saying, if there are other problematic factors not relating to the performance of the ERJ 170 from those distances then it is irrelevant to my point.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 75):
This gives it an airline TORA, ASDA and LDA of 4197 feet for an E170/proposed E190 operation under optimal conditions. That is not enough runway.
Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 87):
The problem is PERFORMANCE... There is no T/O and Land DATA at CSB at the current time in CPAs hands.

I cannot for one minute believe that a detailed appraisal of the ERJ 170 and ERJ 190's performance was not carried out by Embraer and/or other parties at CLD before the deal was tied up. Sure it's not in service data, but that's an unavoidable problem of introducing a new type to an airport.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 87):
You could not fly that E-170 out of there fully loaded to OAK with LAX as an ALT.

Other issues aside, from a runway with the aforementioned declared distances and particulars, then CLD-OAK-LAX, including holds, should be possible with max pax and bags. But the nature of the route/model means it is unlikely to be taking much in the hold.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
dxBrian
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:11 am

How many times have you had to use LAX as an alternate for OAK? There are so many other alternates available within 200 NM that the chances are pretty small that you would need to go almost 300 NM for an alternate airport. If the weather is that bad, you might not want to operate the flight anyway because of the disruption to the rest of your system which is a consideration when you are only operating a few aircraft.

If you can't carry alternate fuel for LAX based on your pax profile, and there is no closer alternate with legal mins, you don't operate. I don't think that would be a show stopper for the FAA

CSB is Cambridge, Nebraska. CLD is apparently the IATA airport identifier. The FAA 3 letter identifier for Carlsbad-Palomar airport is CRQ.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:12 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 90):
Other issues aside, from a runway with the aforementioned declared distances and particulars, then CLD-OAK-LAX, including holds, should be possible with max pax and bags. But the nature of the route/model means it is unlikely to be taking much in the hold.

I have done over 15K dispatch releases for the E-175 and I can tell you that this aircraft will not get off the ground at KCRQ doing CRQ OAK with LAX as an ALT you will not get this fully loaded with pax and bags out of CRQ without leaving a few grandmas at the gate especially on a day when the temp is 80F.

The max T/O weight is 79,300pds... I wouldn't be surprised the T/O PERF at 70F isnt any more than 72K. I had issues getting a 175 from BIS to MSP with MKE as ALT when temps at BIS were above 80F
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PlymSpotter
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:21 am

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 92):
I have done over 15K dispatch releases for the E-175 and I can tell you that this aircraft will not get off the ground at KCRQ doing CRQ OAK with LAX as an ALT you will not get this fully loaded with pax and bags out of CRQ without leaving a few grandmas at the gate especially on a day when the temp is 80F.

The max T/O weight is 79,300pds... I wouldn't be surprised the T/O PERF at 70F isnt any more than 72K. I had issues getting a 175 from BIS to MSP with MKE as ALT when temps at BIS were above 80F

Then you need to understand that an ERJ 170 has vastly superior performance compared to the ERJ 175, the two are not comparable like that. I cannot go into numbers but, put it this way, the two are considerably different in their performance. Also, I don't see such a route having high numbers of checked bags to contend with, even if LAX was the only alternative permissible.


Dan  

[Edited 2013-03-01 22:23:45]
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sunking737
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:36 am

Here is the latest news story about California Pacific......

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...cific-airline-application-refiled/
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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rsmith6621a
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 94):
Here is the latest news story about California Pacific......

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...cific-airline-application-refiled/

Sorry but this is not going to be a a gate near you...EVER..

Just the marketing cost to overcome all damage and the false starts and rumors will cost millions.

I would be interested in seeing how Ted is exploiting the IRS loopholes to cash in.
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jmc1975
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:45 am

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 95):
Quoting sunking737 (Reply 94):
Here is the latest news story about California Pacific......

Is that some kind of joke? It has no indication that it's CalPac, but the livery is somewhat indicative of it.
.......
 
sccutler
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:30 am

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 95):
I would be interested in seeing how Ted is exploiting the IRS loopholes to cash in.

Cash in on what? The opportunity to lose what little he has remaining of his personal assets?

What possible "IRS loopholes" could be of use here?
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:26 pm

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 96):
Is that some kind of joke? It has no indication that it's CalPac, but the livery is somewhat indicative of it.

Uhh, did you actually read the article at all?
 
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flashmeister
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RE: California Pacific Closed Before Start UP (Rumor)

Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:16 pm

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 96):
Is that some kind of joke? It has no indication that it's CalPac, but the livery is somewhat indicative of it.

You mean other than them specifically mentioning California Pacific Airlines? Excerpt:

California Pacific Airlines is asking for extensions after both agencies' deadlines for the company ran out. The transportation department's deadline to begin flights expired on Feb. 25. That department's licensing is needed for FAA approval, and the FAA deadline passed on March 10.

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