Irish 2/13: February Made Me Shiver ...

kaitak · Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:00 pm

With every paper I'd deliver
Bad news on the doorstep.
I couldn't take one more step.

Sorry, going back a bit there, for the younger ones among us!

Anyway, back to 2013! Incidentally, did anyone know that this was the year that Marty McFly chose to travel forward to, in one of the Back to the Future movies? I'm still waiting for my flying skateboard!

The big thing we can expect to hear about, either during the course of this thread or the next, is the decision on FR's takeover plan for Aer Lingus; we've said a lot about this and with one or two exceptions, I think the general gist is that we're against it! Only today, the EU has said that this proposal had "one last chance" (although one has to wonder how many last chances it has had!). We wait with baited breath ...

Some good news for SNN, at last, with Flybe flying to GLA and we hope to see Transaero getting the green light for operation on the SNN-MIA run.

We don't expect to see any more t/a route news from DUB, since UA seems to have ruled out DUB-SFO and Aer Lingus has said there will be no new t/a routes this year, but DUB-SFO/YYZ tops its wish list.

We do expect some good news from Ryanair ... it's apparently in the final stages of a significant order for 737-800s; these will be the current model, not the NG; various figures have been mentioned, between 100 and 150. We can but wait ...

So, it looks like being an interesting month ahead!

Here's the link to 1/13, in case anyone wants to refer back ...
Irish 1/13; Brave New World (by kaitak Dec 31 2012 in Civil Aviation)

shamrock604 · Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:16 pm

In case anyone missed the news from the last thread:

In news that is sure to please many, but perhaps Phil in particular, Swiss will be adding a second flight to their DUBZRH route to operate on Saturdays and Sundays only during the summer peak of late June, July and August.

Hopefully, Swiss is testing the waters for a second daily flight, which they had been rumoured to have wanted to add.

It is certainly significant that we now have IB, TK and LX finally moving towards more than a single daily service.

Cipango · Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:59 pm

Slight typo on the heading, I think it should read 2/13: February....

Im still dating everything as 2012.

shamrock321 · Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:38 pm

The LX and TK increased frequencies are great! You won't see IB increasing frequency as they themselves don't fly to DUB!

I also mentioned towards the end of he last thread how good it is to see BA actively advertising DUB online quite a bit!

OA260 · Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
In news that is sure to please many, but perhaps Phil in particular, Swiss will be adding a second flight to their DUBZRH route to operate on Saturdays and Sundays only during the summer peak of late June, July and August.

Whilst its good to see an increase it is not the amount hoped for. This Winter saw a cut back as other years of flights. The timings for the weekend flight are great for longhaul connections and the return is much better as it leaves ZRH later in the day but I doubt we will see Mon-Fri double daily anytime soon which is a shame. As much as Id love to see it I just dont think the demand is there. Still even though temporary just for the peak season its a welcome move.

shamrock604 · Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:55 pm

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 3):
You won't see IB increasing frequency as they themselves don't fly to DUB!

IB/I2, whatever they are calling themselves this week. It's still 100% owned by IB!

tonystan · Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 5):

Agreed. IB Express is Iberia in all but name. Same pilots, more or less the same service but just cheaper cabin crew!

OA260 · Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:10 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 5):
IB/I2, whatever they are calling themselves this week. It's still 100% owned by IB!

Indeed still Iberia to me too. IIRC you still have all the benefits of mainline IB with Iberia Plus such as lounges/earning and redeeming etc..

shamrock604 · Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 6):
Agreed. IB Express is Iberia in all but name. Same pilots, more or less the same service but just cheaper cabin crew!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):
Indeed still Iberia to me too. IIRC you still have all the benefits of mainline IB with Iberia Plus such as lounges/earning and redeeming etc..

They are actually better than IB!

The cabin crew actually smile and occasionally even speak to you.

shamrock350 · Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:10 pm

'Last chance' for Aer Lingus bid

Quote:
Ryanair has one last chance to argue the merits of its latest attempt to acquire rival Aer Lingus, the European Union's antitrust chief said today, as he prepares to decide the deal's fate.

The no-frills carrier is making its third takeover bid for Aer Lingus after the European Commission blocked its first attempt in 2007 and Ryanair dropped its second in 2009.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...ium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Doesn't make it very clear but sounds like even after this there will be another chance for them to come up with concessions!

kaitak · Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 9):
another chance for them to come up with concessions!

I just wish they were meaningful concessions; it is just like someone coming to your house and saying "I'd like to buy your house and in order to get regulatory approval, I'm going to sell YOUR garage, YOUR fireplace and half an acre of YOUR garden". Not much in the way of concessions from the person who is actually trying to buy the property.

Eagleboy · Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
is the decision on FR's takeover plan for Aer Lingus; we've said a lot about this and with one or two exceptions, I think the general gist is that we're against it! Only today, the EU has said that this proposal had "one last chance" (although one has to wonder how many last chances it has had!). We wait with baited breath ...

Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I just wish they were meaningful concessions; it is just like someone coming to your house and saying "I'd like to buy your house and in order to get regulatory approval, I'm going to sell YOUR garage, YOUR fireplace and half an acre of YOUR garden".

I think the issue here is that FR are not trying to buy the house from you, they are trying to convince the bank who gave you the mortgage that they will get a better return on investment by selling to FR. And doing whatever they can to dodge the objections of the local residents association.

FR want to convince EI shareholders to sell up and make a quick buck rather than sit there for the longhaul. Shares up to 128 today, could very well be funds buying at 120-128 in order to sell at 130+

kaitak · Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:34 am

Just some info on two former EI A330s:

EI-JFK is now AP-BKN of Shaheen Air and was delivered to Pakistan this week. It was previously (before it went to Shaheen Air) VP-BEQ of Vladivostok Avia.

The former EI-EWR is now (and has been for the past 2-3 years) PK-YVI of Batavia Air; unfortunately, Batavia Air went bust this week, so it remains to be seen what will happen to this aircraft. It may well be repossessed ... or end up as part of Jakarta's corrosion corner (which consists of quite a few aircraft!)

BestWestern · Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:45 am

Interesting that the reason for the bankruptcy was the debt incurred due to the A330 leases.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...ares-batavia-air-bankrupt-20130131

OA260 · Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:42 pm

In July every Wednesday Arkia will operate DUB-TLV 2245/0605 with a B757. Shame you wont get to see it in daylight hours.

shamrock350 · Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:33 pm

Aer Arann, Lao and Transasia confirm ATR 72-600 orders

Aer Arann Regional has finalized an order for eight ATR 72-600s originally at the Farnborough Air Show last summer.

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/new...ransasia-confirm-atr-72-600-orders

Nice to see it confirmed, deliveries rumoured to start in May.

AmricanShamrok · Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 15):

So I take it the A76s will replace the 4 AT4s and 4 A72s already in the fleet? That'll leave 8 A76s and 4 A75s leaving RE with a refreshingly young fleet!

On a related note, RE has updated its website with EI branding:
http://www.aerarann.com/

shamrock350 · Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:00 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 16):
So I take it the A76s will replace the 4 AT4s and 4 A72s already in the fleet? That'll leave 8 A76s and 4 A75s leaving RE with a refreshingly young fleet!

Not entirely, it was said last year that the newer aircraft (-500s) would be gone first as they're expensive to lease but the 42s really need to go.

shamrock604 · Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 15):

I'm surprised they've confirmed it - we sometimes forget that FR getting approval to take over EI would probably sink Aer Arann once and for all.

JAmie2k9 · Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:13 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 17):

Keeping the 42's is a good idea because weak routes like KIR, IOM and SEN need this aircraft type in particular IOM and KIR.

Also sunway will be operating a weekly KIR-PMI service between June and September. Air Nostrum will operate it with their CRJ's along with NOC service.

tonymctigue · Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:40 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 17):
Not entirely, it was said last year that the newer aircraft (-500s) would be gone first as they're expensive to lease but the 42s really need to go.

Seriously? Many of RE's aircraft are over 20 years old (patricularly the 42s). If not now then when as they must be not too far off their maximum number of flight cycles/hours.

EIDL · Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:59 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 20):
Seriously? Many of RE's aircraft are over 20 years old (patricularly the 42s). If not now then when as they must be not too far off their maximum number of flight cycles/hours.

The supported cycle limit on ATRs is extremely high though - seem to remember reading that it was 75,000 or so. Of course, ATR don't appear to make that public.

The KIR/CFN/GWY/SXL multiple rotations per day will not have helped the cycles though now that I think of it.

nu · Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:48 am

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):

Marty McFly went forward 30 years to 2015 not 2013

Last week during the high winds Dub was using the shorter north south runway . A FR flight from Lanzarote was approaching but then pulled out and flew directly over pier B and on wards towards the city before turning and heading for SNN. The departure to Lanzarote that lunchtime was delayed by a couple of hours. EI flights meanwhile circled for 20 minutes over Cavan and the Irish Sea. Eventually the wind died dwn sufficiently and planes started ysingthevwesterly runway.

2 questions:

In pulling out of the landing why did the FR flight also veer significantly left over pier B?

Did this demonstrate FR was not carrying fuelsufficient to circle like all the EI flights did?

iRISH251 · Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting nu (Reply 22):
Last week during the high winds Dub was using the shorter north south runway . A FR flight from Lanzarote was approaching but then pulled out and flew directly over pier B and on wards towards the city before turning and heading for SNN. The departure to Lanzarote that lunchtime was delayed by a couple of hours. EI flights meanwhile circled for 20 minutes over Cavan and the Irish Sea. Eventually the wind died dwn sufficiently and planes started ysingthevwesterly runway.

2 questions:

In pulling out of the landing why did the FR flight also veer significantly left over pier B?

Did this demonstrate FR was not carrying fuelsufficient to circle like all the EI flights did?

A go-around is usually carried out on the runway heading before a turn is commenced. How sure are you that the aircraft "veered" as you suggest? In 40 years I don't think I have ever seen an aircraft overfly the terminal buildings at Dublin at low level.

Eagleboy · Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting nu (Reply 22):
Did this demonstrate FR was not carrying fuel sufficient to circle like all the EI flights did?

Not at all. perhaps the captain just decided "...lets get to SNN rather than hanging around DUB in case the wind drops..."

nu · Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:22 pm

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 23):

That's what got me. I was sitting in the old EI B lounge and had just seen a LH takeoff (Hairy to say the least) , was seeing the windows moving with the wind strength and heard this loud house directly overhead, saw it go over Coolock and straight before turning right probably over the city. I looked at flightradar and it was the FR from Lanzarote. There was about a 20 minute cessation of landings and departures ( the ek flight sat on the apron ready to go for about 25 minutes).

It was only a few days later I saw on board how far off the b pier is from the line of that runway

AmricanShamrok · Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:22 pm

A Delta Air Lines 767-300ER operating flight DL593 (CDG-ORD) has diverted to SNN within the past hour. It's scheduled to continue to ORD at 13:30 so it looks like a medical diversion.

nu · Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:02 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 24):

Why did he/she just decide that and why did the other 7 or 8 circlers not do the same? This was the only FR plane involved btw

Eagleboy · Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:47 pm

Perhaps he didn't think the conditions would improve, perhaps he did have less fuel remaining than others in the hold, (doesn't mean there was any safety issues) perhaps he had a lower load and FR Ops were more willing to drop them elsewhere, perhaps the aircraft wasn't needed for another flight from DUB so FR Ops weren't worried about having to ferry it back to DUB.

Seen posted elsewhere that 28/10 at DUB is NOTAM'ed closed from 1005-1500.

shamrock604 · Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting nu (Reply 27):

Lanzarote can be a difficult flight in terms of payload.

If departing from the sea end of the runway at ACE, there are obstacle clearance issues due to terrain, which may limit your ability to take on extra fuel. The FR crew may not have been able to take on any extra over and above flight plan fuel because of this, and didnt want to waste their 30 minutes reserve fuel waiting for an improvement that may not have materialised.

iRISH251 · Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:48 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 28):
Seen posted elsewhere that 28/10 at DUB is NOTAM'ed closed from 1005-1500.

Repair work under way and runway due to reopen circa 1700.

OA260 · Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:48 pm

Air India seems to want to tap into some of the Irish market. Dont think they will get much when you think the amount of traffic EK EY get from the Indian and Pakistani communites but I guess every small amount is a bonus for them.

AIR INDIA - (GSA TENDER)

Air India invites bids from interested parties to be appointed as Passenger General Sales Agent. Tender document with all details is available on the Air India website www.airindia.com.

http://www.indianembassy.ie/news/recent-tender-notices

EIBusiness · Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 30):
Repair work under way and runway due to reopen circa 1700.

Arrived in DUB around 17.50 this evening with EI and we used RWY 28.

Another very windy period coming up over the next few days as a very wintry Northwesterly - Northerly flow sets up, with gusts occasionally enough to perhaps suspend air operations - especially in the Northwest.

EIBusiness

Jambost · Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 31):

Always thought QR would make a move but AI is a nice surprise, could they beat EY to be DUB 's first 787 operator? They would need to move fast at least before EK announce their expected ac upgrade/ frequency increase.

BestWestern · Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting Jambost (Reply 33):
Always thought QR would make a move but AI is a nice surprise, could they beat EY to be DUB 's first 787 operator?

I doubt it - the GSA may be nothing more than trying to sell capacity ex London. However, AI did spend a lot of time analyzing Dublin a few years ago as part of their look at the optimization of their US services.

OA260 · Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:05 am

Quoting Jambost (Reply 33):
Always thought QR would make a move but AI is a nice surprise, could they beat EY to be DUB 's first 787 operator? They would need to move fast at least before EK announce their expected ac upgrade/ frequency increase.

The GSA tender maybe for nothing more than a foot in the door and a Nett deal with EI or BA to provide flights via their LHR flights. It may not be AI metal from DUB. Similar to other airlines such as MH SQ who have representation in Ireland but dont fly here. They do however offer Nett fares for sale in the Irish market.

shamrock604 · Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Ryanair offering to PAY flybe to take over Aer Lingus' routes.

Desperate much?

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...410615-5218-510f-f83a-7a0dd2522097

AmricanShamrok · Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:18 pm

PK now advertising SNN as one of its UK and Ireland destinations on its website:

Originally PK was to use SNN as a transit stop only on the outbound KHI/LHE-JFK with no local traffic rights but does this mean they intend to sell tickets to SNN passengers? It would be unreal if they did!

ClassicLover · Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:15 pm

Well people...

I am back from Paris and I have just completed my Trip Report on the new Aer Lingus pre-order meals - I had both the new meals (one out and one back) and you can read about them and see them here.

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/trip_reports/read.main/233554/

Hope you enjoy the trip report!

Jambost · Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):

Quoting OA260 (Reply 35):

I jumped the gun there, but no doubt good news for passengers looking for a choice of airlines to fly with indirectly.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 37):

It seems to be getting better and better for SNN

.

I am guessing that SNN offered PIA airport fee's they could not refuse. Logistically if PIA wanted additional passengers they would choose DUB or am I missing something like cargo contracts?

OA260 · Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 38):
Hope you enjoy the trip report!

Good stuff

Quoting Jambost (Reply 39):
I am guessing that SNN offered PIA airport fee's they could not refuse. Logistically if PIA wanted additional passengers they would choose DUB or am I missing something like cargo contracts?

Well if they have to transit stop anyway why not pick up pax. With the tender for ticketing and check in desks it certainly means its more than transit they are seeking. So the question will be is it just Ireland-Pakistan or is it also for the TATL hop. The latter would be interesting for sure but this was the aim last time around and it never happened. When its loaded for sale on the website and in CRS I will take it seriously. Then the other question is how long will it last.

shamrock604 · Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 40):

Are PIA going to stop in both directions or just westbound?
Might be a tough sale if it's only one way!

OA260 · Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:52 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 41):
Are PIA going to stop in both directions or just westbound?
Might be a tough sale if it's only one way!

Well if its only oneway then its doomed ! If BA only offered oneway even they couldnt make it let alone PIA! Jokes aside can you see most Irish people wanting to fly PIA over EI ? Id do it for the craic and as an Anetter its a cool thing to do but everyday people would not be so keen. Thats of course if they even offer USA . For the Ireland-Pakistan they might pick up some Midlands/West Coast diaspora traffic but any Pakistanis I know here and in the UK take Gulf carriers and wouldnt fly PIA themselves.

Clydenairways · Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 36):
Ryanair offering to PAY flybe to take over Aer Lingus' routes.

Desperate much?

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...22097

The way things are going now, i think it's looking more and more likely that EI will end up in O'leary's hands. He is totally determined to see this through and if he keeps offering concessions to alleviate the reasons for rejection by the EU, then eventually the EU will have to allow it.

It will be a disaster for Irish aviation and everyone employed in it, but the more i think about it the more i'm convinced that the reason he has remained as CEO is to see through his crusade against the established Aviation bodies in Ireland that have P**ed him off over the years. Getting EI is really just the stepping stone to the rest of his targets, such as:
DAA
Siptu
Ialpa

AmricanShamrok · Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 41):

I was told it was to be one way only with the JFK-LHE/KHI flights nonstop. But this the prospect of offering local sales is unprecedented to say the least so I don't know what the story is now!

EIBoston · Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:57 pm

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 43):
The way things are going now, i think it's looking more and more likely that EI will end up in O'leary's hands. He is totally determined to see this through and if he keeps offering concessions to alleviate the reasons for rejection by the EU, then eventually the EU will have to allow it.

It will be a disaster for Irish aviation and everyone employed in it, but the more i think about it the more i'm convinced that the reason he has remained as CEO is to see through his crusade against the established Aviation bodies in Ireland that have P**ed him off over the years. Getting EI is really just the stepping stone to the rest of his targets, such as:
DAA
Siptu
Ialpa

So I have kind of tuned out of this whole FR/EI takeover stuff. However my understanding was the government were not prepared to see their shares to FR even if the EU allowed a possible takeover. And without the govt shares then FR can't take over anyway right? Or am I missing something here?

Eagleboy · Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:25 am

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 45):
However my understanding was the government were not prepared to see their shares to FR even if the EU allowed a possible takeover. And without the govt shares then FR can't take over anyway right? Or am I missing something here?

The Govt currently own 25%, FR own 29%. The FR offer is aimed at the other 46% of shareholders.

The Govt refusal does however mean that FR cannot outright takeover the company by holding over 75% of it, but they can still become the majority shareholder. I may well be wrong but that was how it was explained to me. If FR hold more than 75% they can force the remaining shareholders to sell.

I am of the same thinking as Clydenairways, this smacks of vendetta rather than a purely business decision.

JAmie2k9 · Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:47 am

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 46):

FR will never own over 75% so it won't be an issure forcing the Goverment to sell. Lets call a spade a spade EI crew holding and EY holding won't go to FR. If cleared to takeover I think FR will get at most 20% on top of their current share. Once this business is finished then they will be some further developments with EY and of course EI regional services. Currently uncertain times for EI but the future will be bright once FR are out of the picture.

kaitak · Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:46 am

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 43):
The way things are going now, i think it's looking more and more likely that EI will end up in O'leary's hands. He is totally determined to see this through and if he keeps offering concessions to alleviate the reasons for rejection by the EU, then eventually the EU will have to allow it.

I have to disagree, but not just out of wishful thinking; you have to look at the respect FR has shown to EI's operations with all of the concessions it is offering (from EI!) ... paying a failing regional carrier to operate a huge amount of EI's routes and giving away other routes, like LGW to BA. OK, maybe some shareholders might feel the need to sell, but what must be clear to them is that FR doesn't want just to buy EI, but to destroy it. I am sure this is not lost on the EU Commission.

The EU has also upped the ante a bit by demanding board approval for all of the proposed concessions by close to business today (Tuesday) - and not just of FR, but BE and BA as well. This is going to be an interesting day ...

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 44):
I was told it was to be one way only with the JFK-LHE/KHI flights nonstop

The problem for PK is that the Americans won't approve nonstop flights from Pakistan to the US, due to security issues, which is why they have to make an en route stop; there's obviously no issue on the return flight. Presumably they have to screen all baggage at SNN during the stopover.

tonymctigue · Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:06 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 37):
PK now advertising SNN as one of its UK and Ireland destinations on its website:

That certainly would be a cool (if rarely used) route from SNN. If PIA are advertising Ireland as a destination then presumably the flights woll stop in both directions and they intend to sell O&D tickets for SNN-LHE/KHI.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net