Viscount724
Topic Author
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:53 am

A drunken J class passenger on an AC 77W flight LHR-YYC last August who damaged the aircraft and assaulted a flight attendant and a passenger, resulting in the flight diverting to YEG, was sentenced yesterday to 1 year's probation, a $4,000 fine, and was ordered to pay $15,200 restitution to AC to cover their costs. He was also fired from his YYC oil industry job after the incident.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ton-unruly-passenger-sentence.html
http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/man-charg...ht-disturbance-sentenced-1.1142469

News report at the time of the incident.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Un...flight+diverted/7122356/story.html
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:08 am

Becoming more and more common these days. When are the courts gonna throw the book at one of these drunkards and set an example?
 
bthebest
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:48 am

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 1):
When are the courts gonna throw the book at one of these drunkards and set an example?

In my opinion, throwing the book almost counts as unfair treatment - especially as this isn't the first time it ever happened. Given the background to the story, restitution, probation and treatment order (sort of) is by far the best way to make a positive change.
 
nrt1011
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:08 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:53 am

I agree by throwing the book at him. I have zero time for drunks period, and for somethnig like this, let him sit somewhere for a year or so and contemplate his actions, with his cell mate named Bubba.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5019
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
LHR-YYC ... resulting in the flight diverting to YEG

Must have been pretty impatient if he couldnt wait 15 more minutes to get to YYC.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
something
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:29 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 1):
Becoming more and more common these days.

Considering how many more people fly today than ''in the good old days'', I would think those incidents are becoming less and less prevalent.

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 1):
When are the courts gonna throw the book at one of these drunkards and set an example?

When the beautiful Canadian legal system breaks down and descends to the sort of populist lynch mob ''justice'' you find south of the 49th parallel.

Quoting bthebest (Reply 2):
In my opinion, throwing the book almost counts as unfair treatment - especially as this isn't the first time it ever happened. Given the background to the story, restitution, probation and treatment order (sort of) is by far the best way to make a positive change.

It is not only that. A punishment should be proportionate to the transgression committed. If you think parking in a handicapped spot should be fined US$500, or giving a cop the middle finger €3000 (in Germany), then of course you will reduce the occurence of such incidents. A police state will always be the safest country on earth. The question is if you want to pay that price, or if you'd rather live in a democratic, self-governing society based on the principles of individual freedom and liberty. The latter will judge things for what they are: You only get probation if you have no criminal history and are not likely to re-offend. Incarcerating him would only cost the government tax payer money, it would ruin his entire future and he'd live on the dole for the rest of his life. For what benefit if he is unlikely to re-offend in either situation. The $4000 will probably cover the severence check to the victims, the $15 000 the damage he caused. A sentence could not be more rational and I applaud Canada for being such a civil society.

I'm not sure I agree with the termination of his employment though. While he may have brought his employer into disrepute, I fail to see how his conduct has any relevance to the tasks he performs at his job. You wouldn't fire a bank teller over a few traffic violations, but a professional truck driver maybe.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
shufflemoomin
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:04 am

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:55 am

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 1):
Becoming more and more common these days. When are the courts gonna throw the book at one of these drunkards and set an example?

What? This was a simple case of assault and basic criminal damage and it cost him his job and $20k. What more would you suggest?
 
pnwtraveler
Posts: 1074
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 am

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting something (Reply 5):
I'm not sure I agree with the termination of his employment though. While he may have brought his employer into disrepute, I fail to see how his conduct has any relevance to the tasks he performs at his job. You wouldn't fire a bank teller over a few traffic violations, but a professional truck driver maybe.

He may have been on company business representing the company in London, and flying on a ticket paid for by the company. Courts consistently deem that if you are on a business trip you are considered to be on company time. Therefore your actions are a reflection of the company. I had a junior employee on a business trip who also got drunk and was talking down a client and our boss. I sent him to the hotel and told him we were going to have a discussion in the morning. He claimed he was on personal time. The company was paying for his dinner and drinks, at a function where there were other industry people, and while the client wasn't there our competitors were and potential clients. Next morning our lawyers confirmed the legality of the situation and the employee was given a verbal final warning and told he would receive it in writing,. He claimed constructive dismissal was happening until he spoke to a lawyer who told him he was dead wrong. After that he was never drunk again "on the job" and turned into quite an effective employee.

With companies starting to discipline and sometimes prosecute employees who bad mouth their company publically on social media like facebook, checking social media on problem employees (employees with chronic absenteeism bragging they are going to a baseball game on facebook when they are supposed to be sick), and other examples of supposedly things done on personal time, on a personal account, courts are recognizing that sometimes your employment responsibilities cross into your personal time.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 1):
Becoming more and more common these days. When are the courts gonna throw the book at one of these drunkards and set an example?

Almost $20,000 in fines, one year probation, and he lost his job .... the book was thrown at him ... remember the days when they quietly covered these things up and forced cabin crew to let it go ...
 
bthebest
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:30 pm

Quoting something (Reply 5):
The $4000 will probably cover the severence check to the victims,

Not sure what you mean by this? The 4k was a fine which goes back to government - any other costs will come out of the 15k to AC.

Quoting something (Reply 5):
I'm not sure I agree with the termination of his employment though. While he may have brought his employer into disrepute, I fail to see how his conduct has any relevance to the tasks he performs at his job.

As pnwtraveler says, he was probably on a business trip and on company time so all his actions can be constituted as against company behaviour guidelines - the cherry being arrested by RCMP and ultimately convicted.
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:54 pm

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 1):
Becoming more and more common these days. When are the courts gonna throw the book at one of these drunkards and set an example?
Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
1 year's probation, a $4,000 fine, and was ordered to pay $15,200 restitution to AC to cover their costs. He was also fired from his YYC oil industry job after the incident.

I think he got what he deserved. Paying up $19,000 isn't going to be easy and now without a job he's gonna find it even harder.

I'm against all jail sentences except for crimes involving severe physical injury. Why should they have a holiday in jail at our expense.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
whitewasp
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:53 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:04 pm

They should of locked him up. Make an example of the guy. Might of deterred future incidents.
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 7):

        

Quoting babybus (Reply 10):
I'm against all jail sentences except for crimes involving severe physical injury.

So someone who manages a ponzi scheme that steals $100 million from people shouldn't see a day of jail?

Quoting WhiteWasp (Reply 11):
They should of locked him up. Make an example of the guy. Might of deterred future incidents.

I don't know for sure if this guy has a problem or not (although I'm almost 100% certain he does), but throwing the book at someone won't deter an alcoholic. That's not how alcoholism works.
Flying refined.
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced

Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:36 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 12):
I don't know for sure if this guy has a problem or not (although I'm almost 100% certain he does), but throwing the book at someone won't deter an alcoholic. That's not how alcoholism works.

As someone mentioned above, in our court system, this IS "throwing the book" at someone.

The cash is significant; the criminal record also. And although people dismiss probation as being nothing, it still requires that your daily activities be reported and monitored. Including, no alcohol for that year. And if he has any other trouble with the law, now he has a prior arrest / criminal record.

Oh, and let's not forget the cash he had to pay his lawyer to represent him an negotiate this plea bargain.

While this might treatment might not frighten a career criminal, the consequences are quite severe for your average (previously) law abiding citizen...

Just yesterday the family who smoked on a Sunwing flight and caused a diversion to Bermuda were on the evennig news... souinds like they got off with a minor fine in comnparison to this.

Quoting bthebest (Reply 9):
Not sure what you mean by this? The 4k was a fine which goes back to government - any other costs will come out of the 15k to AC.

There will be some form of victim restitution available for the person assaultetd... not sure how much in Alberta.

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