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lightsaber
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:51 pm

Tell me which airlines ban kids. I earn FF miles to fly them on vacation. Knowing they're banned tells me which airlines aren't worth acquiring FF miles upon.

I've had problems with drunks on flights as a passenger to often to mention the details.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 48):
Yes, infants scream, and there is not much that can be done about it.

Its not that bad. And there are tricks. Kids scream because they are in pain. Both of my daughters had bad gas as infants. (Most kids do... that milk diet would give us all issues). Clogged ears also 'run in the family.' Because of this, I know tricks I have shared with parents that stop the screaming. But even if it doesn't... a screaming kid really isn't that bad (and I have better than average hearing).

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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 26):
The same place where it says children have a right to sit in anywhere on the aircraft.

Unless the airline specifically has a no kids in first policy, then my kids will sit wherever I pay for them to sit. You have a choice.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 44):
I don't see why people feel entitled to twist businesses to do what they want.

Maybe because they're the paying customer? I've yet to find an airline that has had a second thought about accepting my money for four first class tickets.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 44):
If I want to fly in F without kids, I'm restricted to these airlines

Which airlines have no kids in first policy? The topic of the thread is airlines that don't allow young kids on the upper-deck of A380s and 747s. But anyway, enjoy your limited choice.
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 45):
and maybe a bathed and unbathed section.




That would make more sense than a childfree section.

Quoting richierich (Reply 47):
Quoting Dufo (Reply 24):
What is the point of travelling with infants anyway?
I understand if you're moving to live somewhere but to take them on a visit or vacation when they're that young? Couldn't you give them to relatives for those few days?

Seriously? That has to be one of the most naive and stupid comments I have read in quite a long time.



Errr, no. It's just a different way of life. Calling people stupid because of their different habits is just, you said that, stupid.

The child/scream topic shows up under different guise at least twice each year. Every time it shows up it brings a lot of posts showing an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and the "I paid for it, I'm too cool to interact with others, especially with children" attitude. Well, people, if you hate others, Grumman will be more than happy to solve your problem.
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:38 pm

It would never happen in the States. It would be discrimanation. Notice what regions these airlines that are doing this are from. I for one would love a kid free zone. Nothing wrong with kids but I find myself more annoyed by a screaming kid than most anything else on a flight. It's stressful enough flying nowadays. Nobody is allying about banning kids from aircraft. Why can't we have a "Mc Playland" area on a plane?
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:06 am

Quoting toobz (Reply 54):
t would never happen in the States. It would be discrimanation.

Many cruise ships and restaurants ban children below a certain age. Why should airlines be treated differently?
 
Quokkas
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:26 am

Hearing screaming kids can be unpleasant but they and their parents have as much right to travel as any other person. It is a shame that people are so intolerant and selfish.

All this "put the kids in one cabin". Exactly how may rows on each aircraft should be dedicated to passengers travelling with infants or children? Three, five, ten, twenty? It isn't like regional business in Europe where you can simply move a curtain divider according to how many J seats are sold. You can't fix a bassinet to movable curtains. What happens if there are more passengers with infants or children who wish to travel than there are rows available? Do you say that they can't travel? Do you split up the parents and children so that only infants and children sit in those rows?

How do you ensure that the noise will stay in its allocated part of the cabin? Sound-proof partitions? Are you happy to accept the possibility of a lower seat pitch as more partitions take up space? Although double-decked aircraft have a partial solution it will be quite some time before they become standard on the majority of routes. Are you prepared to pay extra so that the airlines can afford to install the partitions on existing aircraft or make up the loss if seats in the "kiddy ghetto" remain unsold?
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bond007
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting fanofjets (Reply 38):
It is sad that most adults simply do not want to have anything to do with childhood.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43):
always find these "ban children" threads a reflection of the nastier element of human nature
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 45):
No, we should ban the handicapped too, and maybe have a homosexual free section, and maybe a bathed and unbathed section. We could board and sit by race or gender too. The Elite could wear little arm badges showing they have status and are not to be directly addressed unless by staff.
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 53):
Well, people, if you hate others,

Wow, some of us don't like screaming kids .... in fact probably most of us, and I have 2 of them, and now we're into gays, hate, banning children, and worse ....

Is it impossible to have a normal discussion about a topic without a few folks taking it completely out of context? really?

I guess I know my answer!

I love kids as much as anyone here .... but if I pay $2000 or more for a first class seat, where I'm promised a more comfortable, pleasant ride - I'd rather not have a screaming child next to me.... It would be tough to believe ANYONE would!

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railker
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:38 am

I think WestJet was onto something with last years' April Fools video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4SkoJy3D0M

[Edited 2013-02-08 17:38:40]
 
greg3322
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:01 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 45):
and maybe a bathed and unbathed section

I would support that one!
 
Mir
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:24 am

Quoting qantasguy (Reply 20):
You have to sit there and bare it and, while your ears bleed, and head splits wide open you wonder why someone else who has executive authority over an airline hasn't figured out that "Adult Flights" would really be quite profitable. I'd pay a higher price for guaranteed peace.

Except that a flight with no children is not guaranteed peace. Adults are perfectly capable of causing just as much disruption as a child.

Quoting qantasguy (Reply 20):
It is not unreasonable to want this. When you are at a fine restaurant, and want to enjoy a quiet evening - this is to be expected, a commercial flight should be no different

The economy cabin of a commercial flight is not comparable to a fine restaurant. I'm fine with keeping children under 6 or so from the premium cabins (which would be comparable), but beyond that people just need to suck it up and deal with it.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 55):
Many cruise ships and restaurants ban children below a certain age. Why should airlines be treated differently?

Because cruise ships and restaurants are destinations in and of themselves. An airplane is simply a mode of transport, nothing more.

-Mir
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deepunderground
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:45 am

SQ certainly don't ban kids upstairs on A380.

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168889_10101198933883782_918578141_n.jpg

Living overseas, I constantly drag my little ones all over Asia in J (and Y sometimes too). Typically though the baby is in a bassinet seat and not her own paid seat. That one was not the typical situation LOL. I have never seen the gates agents so confused as to a baby in a paid J seat!

The four year old does fine and just watches IFE the whole time. They baby is usually fine, but if she gets crazy one of us usually takes a trip to the lavatory to try and keep the sound down.

We try to be respectful and control the kids, and when it fails (kids are not always controllable), we try to minimize the impact.



Now you want torture? Try an armored bus with the windows covered up by ballistic plates and a screaming child. 
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:07 am

Quoting Dufo (Reply 24):

Okay, so I see you don't deal with children on a regular basis. 75% of children who fly are angels from my experience. Also, do you know how much work it would be to drive a long distance with a child or children (at least children in this age range)? It is a hard and long task. Most people do not treat their children like pets, thankfully.


And to everybody who is saying that children should be banned, sat in the back, etc..... There are much larger problems in this world than somebody eho had the priveledge to fly in the first place being seated next to a noisy child. People are homeless, poor, dealing with physical and psycological issues, and people are worried about listening to a child's noises for a few hours.
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cha747
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:39 pm

Hmmmm... so screaming kids bother you in J or F?

I think if you can afford to be in J or F, you can afford noise canceling headphones.

My kids have flown F many times (probably 20 segments each) in their short 4 and 6 year old lives.

Only 1 comment from somebody on a flight from DCA-LGA on the US shuttle when my oldest one was 2. The man said, "your little boy needs to get used to flying." I shut him up when I told him that my son was Silver Preferred. The man looked at my wife with astonishment and she nodded her head in agreement.

My stance is if you want to avoid a nuisance on board, invest in appropriate headphones or drive. I'm bringing my kid.
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toobz
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:01 pm

Lol nobody is saying you can't! We are just saying its nice to have an option. Just because you chose to have kids doesn't mean everybody needs to love them. Take them where ever you want.
 
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longhauler
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:04 pm

Quoting cha747 (Reply 62):
I think if you can afford to be in J or F, you can afford noise canceling headphones.

As noted above, noise canceling headphones actually enhance the sound of a baby crying! What one needs is a baby/drunk canceling headphone.

Quoting cha747 (Reply 62):
The man said, "your little boy needs to get used to flying."

It sounded more that he was being friendly, and, 99% of the time, his suggestion would be correct, the more babies fly, the more relaxed they (and their parents) become.

Some airlines not allowing children below a certain age in premium cabins is a marketing decision. They know the consequences if they have judged the market incorrectly. And ... should they advertise the fact, or should they do it quietly and discreetly?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
sweair
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:48 pm

For trunk routes maybe child flights and childless flights? I too have a hard time sitting next to a screaming child for 10 hours or more, getting my back kicked 50 times, being waken by kids that are at large in the cabin etc

Modern day parents are the worst egos in history, this was not how it used to be, my parents left me at my grandparents when I was a toddler too young to appreciate a trip anyway.

It does not bother me that some egos are hurt, its not my task to love your brats, let me travel in peace, I let you travel in peace.
 
enginebird
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 65):
Modern day parents are the worst egos in history, this was not how it used to be, my parents left me at my grandparents when I was a toddler too young to appreciate a trip anyway.

As we all know:
Everything was better in the good old days and parents today just are not what they used to be. Forum rules do not allow my to tell you what you sound like... Just like forum rules would not allow you to call our kids "brats"; this is totally uncalled for.

My ego is not hurt at all by your statement, as I will continue to take my kids and you will have to live with it. Don't like it: Buy yourself a plane or drive. After all, it is not our fault you were such a badly behaved child your parents had to hide you at your grandparents place when traveling...

We usually try to minimize the impact of our kids on fellow travelers, but please do identify yourself when we sit in a cabin with you and we will be happy to make an exception just for you.
 
sweair
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:51 pm

Quoting enginebird (Reply 66):

Maybe you don't live in Sweden? Here people worship children, they can do no wrong and if you dare telling a kid to knock it off you are almost banished from the society. How dare you tell my kid to cool down!?

The root of the problem is behavior, my parents would not tolerate me running around a cabin and disturbing people, not allow me to kick the seat in front of me or to change a diaper in the cabin like I had to endure once.

Sorry to say this, but your hurt feelings wont change my will to pay more to travel in peace. Socialism never appealed to me everyone should be equal, nah I chose not to have kids why should I have to endure them on long haul flights if an Airline is willing to offer this service to me? It really bugs you doesn´t it? Not everyone loves traveling in a daycare centre for 13 hours straight.
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting deepunderground (Reply 60):
They baby is usually fine, but if she gets crazy one of us usually takes a trip to the lavatory to try and keep the sound down. We try to be respectful and control the kids, and when it fails (kids are not always controllable), we try to minimize the impact.

And this is the difference between responsible, considerate parents like you, and ignorant idiots.



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enginebird
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 67):
Sorry to say this, but your hurt feelings wont change my will to pay more to travel in peace. [...] I chose not to have kids why should I have to endure them on long haul flights if an Airline is willing to offer this service to me? It really bugs you doesn´t it?

To be honest, it does not bug me at all. Probably not half as much as kids seem to bug you  

The explanation is directly related to this topic: Few airlines restrict where kids can sit on their planes and even fewer airlines advertize such a policy. I have always been able to sit with my kids on any plane and in any class, as long as I was prepared to fork over the cash. If I know an airline has such a policy, it loses my business when I travel with my kids and also when I travel on business without my kids. And since you believe in market forces, as do I, you will not find it hard to believe that airlines are very careful not to annoy potential customers, including parents.

So, no, my feelings are not hurt and I wish you well in finding an airline that will give you what you are looking for. Your frustration, however, tells me that you have not been too sucessful so far... This does not give you the right to use derogatory terms like "brats" to address children!

[Edited 2013-02-09 12:00:23]
 
sweair
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting enginebird (Reply 69):

No it´s your frustration that shows, air lines catering towards people who would prefer to travel in a quiet cabin. Why is that even outrageous? More choice is always good?! I don't get the anger this creates from parents? Do you?
 
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vegas005
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:46 pm

Just flew LH A380 from Houston and I was in the back of the upper deck business class (great service btw). The flight attendant and I were laughing because we could easily hear two kids screaming and crying on the FIRST deck!! They may not have been on the upper deck but they were easy to hear!!
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 56):
I love kids as much as anyone here .... but if I pay $2000 or more for a first class seat, where I'm promised a more comfortable, pleasant ride - I'd rather not have a screaming child next to me.... It would be tough to believe ANYONE would!

The airline has no obligation, nor ability, to screen passengers for annoying habits. It's just a part of life, and adults need to be adults and learn to deal with it. If they can ban children, why stop there? What about that guy hocking up a lung every five minutes? Or the lady who smells like she's rolled over a dead rat? Or the loud snorer? Or the drunk? Or the two guys talking the. whole. flight? It might be nice to ban all of these people, but it's impossible.
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enginebird
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:29 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 70):

No it´s your frustration that shows, air lines catering towards people who would prefer to travel in a quiet cabin. Why is that even outrageous? More choice is always good?! I don't get the anger this creates from parents? Do you?

We should not hijack this thread with a private conversation and since -- additionally -- your post does not make any sense to me, I will refrain from addressing any of your "points".
 
bond007
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:37 pm

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 61):
And to everybody who is saying that children should be banned, sat in the back, etc..... There are much larger problems in this world than somebody eho had the priveledge to fly in the first place being seated next to a noisy child. People are homeless, poor, dealing with physical and psycological issues,

OK, then start a new thread about those. This thread is about screaming children.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 72):
The airline has no obligation, nor ability, to screen passengers for annoying habits.

It can quite easily ban children from rows 1-6, just as easy as it can 'ban' exit rows and front seats from non-elite pax ... pretty easy.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 72):
If they can ban children, why stop there? What about that guy hocking up a lung every five minutes? Or the lady who smells like she's rolled over a dead rat? Or the loud snorer? Or the drunk? Or the two guys talking the. whole. flight? It might be nice to ban all of these people, but it's impossible.

Oh, I'd love to ban the whole lot of them .... but since I agree it's probably impossible, we can start with screaming children  


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SCQ83
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:41 pm

I don't have anything about flying among children or babies (at least if they have been minimally educated).

A baby crying or a small kid playing is quite a natural thing IMO... it doesn't bother me. They can even be kinda funny (well that depends on the country... being a male if travelling alone I would never reply to a kid trying to play here in the US for obvious reasons)... I kinda even like it... it reminds me how amazing is that thing that flies and puts together +200 people with so different perspectives, histories and travel plans for 6 or 7 hours.

Certainly more natural and pleasant than the view of a drunk lousy passenger or the typical suit & tie talking on his BB 1 second after the plane has landed (probably the one bothered by small kids), trying to push everyone to leave the plane ASAP. And just from a selfish perspective... little kids (once they have a seat of their own) occupy little space  ... just having a child in the row in front of you means his or her seat will not be reclined to the maximum without even bothering what's happening behind his back as most "adult" passengers do.

Quoting toobz (Reply 53):
It would never happen in the States. It would be discrimanation. Notice what regions these airlines that are doing this are from. I for one would love a kid free zone. Nothing wrong with kids but I find myself more annoyed by a screaming kid than most anything else on a flight. It's stressful enough flying nowadays. Nobody is allying about banning kids from aircraft. Why can't we have a "Mc Playland" area on a plane?

Certainly I can't see this policy ever implemented in an Arab/Gulf airline. Those are extremely family orientated societies and it is not hard to see the whole family (with the maid!) flying in Business or First (unlikely many Western "high-fliers" complaining about kids who are on company-paid tickets).

[Edited 2013-02-09 13:46:32]
 
Kiwirob
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:02 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 8):
I'm sure many F fare paying pax would be very upset (as I would be), having paid a very high premium, only to end up next to a screaming 2 year old for the whole flight.

I think the annoying little yapping mutt in the Louis Vuitton carry case is far worse than any child, it's usually the folks in first and business who carry these daft animals.
 
greenjet
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
I don't think business people want a screaming child seating next to them. That noise might music to parents' ears, but its pure torture to mine..

Believe me, it is not music to parents' ears. It's actually a very stressful situation for the parent, particularly on an overnight long-haul flight when you know other passengers are trying to sleep!

Quoting Dufo (Reply 24):
What is the point of travelling with infants anyway?
I understand if you're moving to live somewhere but to take them on a visit or vacation when they're that young? Couldn't you give them to relatives for those few days?

What if you live in the US and your infants' grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. live in Europe? Are infants not entitled to travel to see these people in the flesh? I, like most people I'm sure, only travel with an infant if we have to. It's not all roses for the parents either!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:40 am

I just realized something... Half the people I know who *pay* for international first travel with their children. (From stundmen to CEOs. If airlines really banned kids, I couldn't see how they would survive out of LAX. In fact, every flier I know with over 2 million miles had a point in their career where they were bringing the family along. If they couldn't, I'm certain they would have switched whatever airline they were loyal to.

So let airlines ban kids. That is banning frequent fliers during the stage of their life when they have a family and are working to keep it close. They'll move on to another airline and we'll wonder why the airlines that ban have a dirth of 'Platinum' frequent fliers.

Quoting cha747 (Reply 62):
My stance is if you want to avoid a nuisance on board, invest in appropriate headphones or drive. I'm bringing my kid.

Good for you. I'll bring my kids too. As I noted before, any airline that keeps them out of a class of service won't get my business and I think I can influence a few dozen people who fly way more than I do.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 64):
drunk canceling headphone.

How much?

Quoting bond007 (Reply 74):
It can quite easily ban children from rows 1-6,

That is OK (as long as there are similar class seats aviable for paying passengers with kids.) For example, I'm sure the seats next to the bar on EK's A380 would not attract parents with kids. There will be a 'natural selection' of seat assignments there...

Its having a whole deck prohibited that I strongly object to.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 76):
I think the annoying little yapping mutt in the Louis Vuitton carry case is far worse than any child

That is when you want kids. They mellow out the puppy and the puppy mellows out the kids.   

Lightsaber
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enginebird
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:52 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 78):
So let airlines ban kids. That is banning frequent fliers during the stage of their life when they have a family and are working to keep it close. They'll move on to another airline and we'll wonder why the airlines that ban have a dirth of 'Platinum' frequent fliers.
[...]
Good for you. I'll bring my kids too. As I noted before, any airline that keeps them out of a class of service won't get my business and I think I can influence a few dozen people who fly way more than I do.

Thank you!   

Exactly what I said in a post yesterday. As soon as I know an airline has a non-friendly policy concerning kids, they lose my leisure and business revenue. -- Parents are very sensitive when it comes to their kids. One airline caused some serious discomfort to our son and thus to us a few years ago, due to providing some misinformation before the flight, and did little to rectify the situation. We have never flown this airline since, an airline I had been a frequent flyer with for more than a decade...
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:04 am

This thread reminds me how nasty human beings can be. Humanity really disappoints me at times.

Quoting deepunderground (Reply 60):
SQ certainly don't ban kids upstairs on A380.

Awwwwwwwww OMG how cute. I can't wait until I have kids with my partner, when he wants them, i do hahahha .

My kids are coming in F or J with me, and f*** all the rest of you who don't want it.


BTW, I don't understand this notion that some people have about paying extra for a ticket entitles them to a child-free atmosphere...? If the parents/guardians pay for it.... Riding on an airplane is really like a glorified bus ride nowadays.

If you want no kids, have none yourself, and talk about how much money you spent on F............take a private jet.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
cha747
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 80):
My kids are coming in F or J with me, and f*** all the rest of you who don't want it.


BTW, I don't understand this notion that some people have about paying extra for a ticket entitles them to a child-free atmosphere...? If the parents/guardians pay for it.... Riding on an airplane is really like a glorified bus ride nowadays.

If you want no kids, have none yourself, and talk about how much money you spent on F............take a private jet.

Amen...this thread should be locked at some point soon. No point in complaining about first world problems.
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sweair
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:10 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 80):
My kids are coming in F or J with me, and f*** all the rest of you who don't want it.

Will you teach your future children to totally disrespect others? The world does not revolve around you, yeah what a surprise.

IF some airlines would offer this service why on earth do you want to ban them? Just go with someone else. Its just another niche of service trying to gain some extra profit, no one is banning kids from flying even in F or J, just a small part of the cabin or a small tiny section. Think of it as a library..

I always conform to those around me, I expect others to do the same towards me. That is really all.
 
toobz
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:24 pm

Why are people so sensitive about this? Is it really that awful that one or two airlines don't allow children in the front cabins? lol don't fly them. enough said. This has gone way off topic.
 
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longhauler
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 83):
Why are people so sensitive about this? Is it really that awful that one or two airlines don't allow children in the front cabins? lol don't fly them. enough said. This has gone way off topic.

I tend to agree, yet this topic seems to garner a lot of emotion. Like the obese passenger discussion that crops up from time to time.

An airline has made a marketing decision. If one doesn't like that decision, don't fly them. It really is very very simple.

It is like Herb Kelleher of Southwest Airlines used to say. "You don't like Southwest, and refuse to fly us any more ... fine, we'll miss you. Next"
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:10 pm

Okay, how about this idea.

" XYZ Airlines policy on the carriage of children. This airline will not board any child under 12yrs old on all flights that depart on a Monday or a Friday"

Families and Businessmen/women all know where they stand BEFORE they fly.
Just a thought.   
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longhauler
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:12 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 85):
Okay, how about this idea.

Or when United Airlines had "Men-only" flights. It was stated as such in timetables and advertising. A marketing decision, if one didn't like it, I am sure American Airlines was more than willing to carry you.
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bond007
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting greenjet (Reply 77):
Believe me, it is not music to parents' ears. It's actually a very stressful situation for the parent, particularly on an overnight long-haul flight when you know other passengers are trying to sleep!

So you must understand how some folks might want an area on an aircraft where they can pay a premium and not be subject to that!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 78):
So let airlines ban kids

Not sure how we got to this ....wasn't this discussion about certain areas? First/Business?

Quoting enginebird (Reply 79):
We have never flown this airline since, an airline I had been a frequent flyer with for more than a decade...

The truth is that most folks have little choice of what airline they fly, without some inconvenience. I don't disagree with your right to choose any airline, but the bottom line is that it will make little difference .... and for all those that choose not to fly, you may well get more people that DO choose to fly them for those exact same reasons.

Now for the great hypocrisy ....see below:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 80):
This thread reminds me how nasty human beings can be. Humanity really disappoints me at times.
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 80):
and f*** all the rest of you who don't want it
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 80):
If you want no kids, have none yourself, and talk about how much money you spent on F............take a private jet.

...wasn't that a perfect example of how nasty human beings can be .... the worst said on this thread so far!!

Quoting cha747 (Reply 81):
Amen...this thread should be locked at some point soon.

Why, because some folks disagree with your views? I don't understand??


Jimbo
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sweair
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:38 pm

Its really not so radical, a tiny space of all the space on a large aircraft dedicated for adults willing to pay for peace and quiet. How this can provoke so many people is beyond me. One more thing to consider, maybe this would not be needed if more people were considerate towards their surrounding?

I never bother anyone else on a flight, I go out of my way to be as smooth as I can and respect fellow travellers, I would never even let one go in the cabin as many do, total disrespect IMO. I never drink or get drunk, I mostly read, watch a movie or sleep. That is how I was brought up, respect other people.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:40 pm

I do not understand why banning children would be a marketing decision and banning obese people or black or redheads or old or whatever would be a discrimination issue.
Banning children is both a discrimination against children and as well there parents and if that discrimination is possible, why fight any other discrimination.
If some airlines in remote areas would start banning kids, you could compare that to a travel ban.

As I live in Iceland my trip starts out usually with a flight with lots of children on a very children friendly airline.

All through my travels I have less been disturbed by kids than by obnoxious adults.

I yet have to see kids smoking in the lavatory and delaying the flight for example.
I have been spewed upon by three adults in flight, two obnoxious drunks both times in business class, and once a lady going suddenly very ill and straight to the hospital on landing, I do not know how often she apologized.

I have been spewed upon by my children at home, and I would prefer that both in amount and smell to the drunks.

[Edited 2013-02-10 11:41:34]
 
UALWN
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 86):
Or when United Airlines had "Men-only" flights. It was stated as such in timetables and advertising. A marketing decision, if one didn't like it, I am sure American Airlines was more than willing to carry you.

Right, so let's have white-only flights: no blacks, no Indians and, of course, no arabs. If you don't like it, hey choose another airline!  
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longhauler
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 90):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 86):
Or when United Airlines had "Men-only" flights. It was stated as such in timetables and advertising. A marketing decision, if one didn't like it, I am sure American Airlines was more than willing to carry you.

Right, so let's have white-only flights: no blacks, no Indians and, of course, no arabs. If you don't like it, hey choose another airline!

Well, whether one thinks it was right or wrong, it IS what United did. And that was one's only choice if not a man ... take another flight.

They were willing to risk offending half of the population with this marketing decision. (But probably only about 20% of the travelling public). Interestingly enough, American's competing flight had a "ladies welcome" by-line!

So an airline has a "no babies" rule. Does the competition advertise "babies welcome"?
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enginebird
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 87):
Quoting enginebird (Reply 79):
We have never flown this airline since, an airline I had been a frequent flyer with for more than a decade...

The truth is that most folks have little choice of what airline they fly, without some inconvenience. I don't disagree with your right to choose any airline, but the bottom line is that it will make little difference .... and for all those that choose not to fly, you may well get more people that DO choose to fly them for those exact same reasons.

Good thing is: I do have the choice between several airlines/alliances on most of my longer trips. Airlines will certainly not go out of business because I exercise my choice and fly with their competitors, but first of all, it makes me feel better if they do not get my money and, secondly, if enough customers spend their cash elsewhere, they may go out of business eventually.
 
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:08 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 91):
So an airline has a "no babies" rule. Does the competition advertise "babies welcome"?

Yes, and I can absolutely guarantee that those airlines welcoming babies will see a decrease in other passengers....everyone will be happy!


Jimbo
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toobz
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:10 pm

UALWN...that's being excessive. Nobody is suggesting that but yourself. When you go to a bar in the US, do they ban children and blacks and gays and Indians?Nope. Just children. That's all we are talking about. Is children. Nothing else. Don't be so dramatic. Would you say that bars in the US are discriminating?
 
sweair
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:18 pm

Freaking nuts, a small part of the cabin does not equal the whole flight. Very few airlines would be able to fill a flight if they had a child ban. Why is that so unthinkable to have a few rows that children below 12 are not allowed to sit in? The rest of 93% of the aircraft is free to sit on...

Isn´t this more of a if I am putting up then why shouldn´t everyone else have to?
 
UALWN
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 94):
UALWN...that's being excessive. Nobody is suggesting that but yourself.

Well, somebody brought up men-only flights. How is this different?

Quoting toobz (Reply 94):
Would you say that bars in the US are discriminating?

Uh? That's done in order to protect children. Children are not allowed to work either. Is that discriminatory too? Of course not.
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bond007
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 96):
Uh? That's done in order to protect children. Children are not allowed to work either. Is that discriminatory too? Of course not.

Please let's stop this 'discriminating' argument.

You can't sit in some preferred seats unless you are an elite FF - maybe you can't sit in some seats if you are under 12.

Call it what you like, but the airlines restrict pax from certain seats/areas based upon other criteria than what fare you pay - and will continue to do so.



Jimbo
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UALWN
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 97):
You can't sit in some preferred seats unless you are an elite FF - maybe you can't sit in some seats if you are under 12.

What about an elite FF who is 11 years old? If anybody can achieve FF status (by flying a lot, having a certain credit card, etc.) of course it's not discriminatory.
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RE: No Kids Allowed In Upper Decks On A380 And 747s?

Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting deepunderground (Reply 60):

That is great. But I'm curious, did they make you all put a belt over that baby? I can see where it would be effective for some motions, but actually dangerous for others when lying down. In anycase....

Like I said, that's great. I'd love to be able to do that for my kids more often, but with my DarkSnowyBudget, J-class is a once (or less) time a year deal for my girls & I. Nevermind something like SQ Suites, lol... Anyway, good for you all...

Quoting enginebird (Reply 79):
As soon as I know an airline has a non-friendly policy concerning kids, they lose my leisure and business revenue.

Very good. I act the same whenever possible. T-Mobile screwed up pretty royally on my personal account for a few months running. Not only did I fire them, but as soon as I had any discretion at out Southern Calif. stations, I switched us all to another carrier and actually wrote them a letter about it. I doubt they cared much, since it was only about $25,000 a month worth of business, but it felt right, lol.

In any case, I say right on! If they're going to treat your kids poorly, they should lose all your business.
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