Page 1 of 1

777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:15 am
by katanapilot
I was randomly scanning FlightRadar24 and noticed that C-FIUJ is about land in Ottawa from Toronto...a 777-200LR. Is this true? I've never seen a 777 in Ottawa, what could be the occasion? Not exactly exploiting the range of the aircraft :p
CFIUJ

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:37 am
by Wingtips56
Interesting. FlightAware shows it and the returning flight (ACA469) as the normal A319, but Air Canada (.com) shows both segments with the 77L. Either somebody keyed it in wrong, or perhaps they are indeed subbing the flight with the 777, as there have been a lot of cancellations today YYZ-YOW-YYZ.

Any spotters should take a look and see what is on Gate 15 for AC469, ETD 21:15.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:41 am
by katanapilot
I might head over and take a look. Could be interesting! There have been a lot of cancellations today.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:24 pm
by longhauler
YYZ is a mess today, and there are a lot of cancellations.

I am not surprised to see high capacity wide-bodies on short routes to carry stranded passengers with cancellations ... when reduced slots are available.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:30 pm
by KFlyer
Usually FR24 rarely gets the info wrong, as it only picks up ADS-B or FAA data - whereas FlightAware also takes info from schedules. Hence, I presume that this has to be correct.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:10 pm
by Bureaucromancer
It's definitely not unheard of for AC to sub in widebodies on the corridor routes.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:19 pm
by rampbro
Quoting katanapilot (Thread starter):
I was randomly scanning FlightRadar24

That's the way to do it! My friends always ask what I'm doing with it open but cool things like this are the reason why!

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:50 am
by longhauler
Quoting rampbro (Reply 6):

That's the way to do it! My friends always ask what I'm doing with it open but cool things like this are the reason why!

I do the something similar sometimes. I open up a 7 page scan of the position of every AC aircraft. When I click on the symbol, I can see passenger loads, how many have checked in, delays, look at the flight plan, etc etc etc. Coffee in hand it is like looking at a huge working model.

Absolutely none of my friends understand this, yet I bet everyone on this site would!

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:20 am
by Boeing744
Well, AC uses the 763 on the route quite frequently, so a 77L isn't completely insane. I agree with the others - it's probably a substitution due to the weather.

They've definitely come to Ottawa before due to diversions.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:53 pm
by Thenoflyzone
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 8):
Well, AC uses the 763 on the route quite frequently,

very common, especially on weekends. I've seen the 77L subbed on YYZ-YOW a few times in the last year or two as well.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 8):
They've definitely come to Ottawa before due to diversions.

YOW is the official alternate airport for YYZ bound flights (even the EK's A380). YHM is simply too close to YYZ and is often affected by the same weather system as YYZ, making it a marginal alternate at best.

Thenoflyzone

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:23 pm
by ZBBYLW
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9):
YOW is the official alternate airport for YYZ bound flights (even the EK's A380). YHM is simply too close to YYZ and is often affected by the same weather system as YYZ, making it a marginal alternate at best.

Sure about that? YHM seems to be the alternate of choice if the weather is good enough in YHM but not good enough to go contact (no alternate IFR).

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:34 pm
by longhauler
Quoting zbbylw (Reply 10):
Sure about that? YHM seems to be the alternate of choice if the weather is good enough in YHM but not good enough to go contact (no alternate IFR).

YHM, (and IAG and BUF) are common alternates for YYZ, as you state. YOW (or YUL) are only used if there is a high likelihood of diverting.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:35 pm
by A346Dude
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9):
YOW is the official alternate airport for YYZ bound flights (even the EK's A380). YHM is simply too close to YYZ and is often affected by the same weather system as YYZ, making it a marginal alternate at best.

"Official" alternate? It may be the standard alternate for a lot of airlines but it will vary by day and by airline.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:57 pm
by Thenoflyzone


Quote:
Sure about that? YHM seems to be the alternate of choice if the weather is good enough in YHM but not good enough to go contact (no alternate IFR).

AC will use YOW as the alternate the majority of the time, as they already have the staff in place to assist passengers in the likelihood that they have to disembark, and also relief crews in case pilots or f/a's max out.

YHM does not have AC service. So it's just common sense that AC will choose YOW over YHM most of the time, fuel and weather permitting, of course.

That's a good chunk of YYZ traffic right there choosing YOW.

Most international carriers (non U.S) will also choose YOW. pure geography. When the weather is coming in (usually from the west and is over YYZ, and probably over YHM as well) they have nowhere else to go but YOW or YUL which are still in the clear.

Quote:
aA346Dude

yes, meant standard, not official.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 11):
(and IAG and BUF)


yes, Transborder airlines will go back to the states, namely BUF. Its cheaper than YOW and they also have staff there to assist passengers in the event they have to disembark, because most feeders already serve BUF.

Just like those headed to YUL or YQB will often choose BTV as the alternate. They can very easily land at, say.... PBG, it's probably cheaper. But they dont because most of them already serve BTV and its less complicated (fuel contracts, staff, avlb of pilots...etc)

Canadian operators or intl carriers from Europe or Asia often choose YOW, pure and simple. (always weather and fuel permitting, of course)

When YUL is weathered out, and YMX is still avlb, AC and Jazz can very easily land there, refuel, and do the short hop to YUL when it opens up, yet i've never seen them there. They always come to YOW or go to YYZ, for the very same reasons mentioned above.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-02-10 14:04:17]

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:46 pm
by longhauler
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
AC will use YOW as the alternate the majority of the time

I would say less than 5% of the time, and only if there is a possibility it will be needed.

YHM and BUF are the most common, and they are referred to as a "technical alternate". Namely, YYZ weather is not good enough for No Alternate IFR, so an alternate must be carried, but likely not needed. No sense carrying fuel for YOW when it wont be used.

And yes, every now and then one of our ships end up in YHM and BUF. There are already contracts in place so it really is nothing more than just getting refueled, filing a new flight plan ...and off you go!

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:33 am
by Thenoflyzone
Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
YYZ weather is not good enough for No Alternate IFR, so an alternate must be carried, but likely not needed. No sense carrying fuel for YOW when it wont be used.

if the weather at YYZ demands an alternate, isn't YHM often affected by the same weather system, deeming it useless?

I understand using YHM and BUF as paper alternates...but as you said, that's just what they are and you seldom need to use them.

thenoflyzone

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:01 am
by longhauler
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15):
if the weather at YYZ demands an alternate, isn't YHM often affected by the same weather system, deeming it useless?

Not necessarily.

The requirements for No Alternate IFR are pretty restrictive. Without going into too much detail, it has to be better than VFR (by a wide margin), with a lot of other restrictions. So the weather can be fine, but still No Alternate IFR is not authorized. In a case like that, YHM, or BUF would be fine as a technical alternate.

If the weather was such that there was some doubt about making it into YYZ, then YOW, (or YUL if YOW was not legal) are usually used, for the reasons you state.

RE: 777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:45 pm
by Viscount724
YOW had another slightly more exotic 777 last Friday when a PIA 777-200LR en route from Islamabad (ISB) to YYZ diverted to YOW due to the YYZ weather/snow chaos on Friday. Following from Transport Canada occurrence reports.

The Pakistan International Airlines Boeing 777-200LR (operating as flight PIA781) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Islamabad, Pakistan (OPRN) to Toronto (CYYZ). PIA781 elected to divert to their alternate airport Ottawa (CYOW) due to weather and anticipated delays at their original destination CYYZ.