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xpfg
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:35 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?
 
dbo861
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:30 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
This sure helps (along with your y-o-y comparison) explain where some of the a/c for the new routes are coming from. I note that it appears SFO-MCO is gone at the end of summer?

Maybe we'll see some more short haul destinations on VX? With all of the reductions there should still be some slack in the fleet after the recent additions.

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?

MCO will still be accessible from SFO via LAX. It's interesting they're veering away from serving every destination from both LAX and SFO. Maybe we'll see some point to point additions.
 
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legacyins
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:43 am

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):
Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?

I did a dummy booking on their site for SFO-MCO in October and was routed through LAX. Maybe they will try for MIA out of SFO.
 
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SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:11 am

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):
Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?

A dropped route is generally not "announced" by anyone (except on A.net.) VX has been up-front about announcing closed stations (YYZ and SNA) but as they are not closing MCO, don't expect to hear anything about it from them.

That's another reason that many of us appreciate these OAG threads of Enilria -- dropped routes can't hide for long!  

In any case, MCO is a well-known low yielding market and I guess the 2 UA n/s + the single n/s on VX proved to be too much capacity on the route... and VX blinked first. We'll see what else they come up with to use this particular plane for.

bb
 
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yellowtail
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:09 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 48):
But in July and August?

Depending on the day of week and timings...this may be aimed at some c. American traffic....like RTB....
Folks from Calgary love going to places like RTB, LIR, BZE etc.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:28 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA EWR-ANC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Nice addition, there was a thread discussing ANC-NYC not that long ago.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:03 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 48):
Quoting FSDan (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Interesting. Is this the first time DL has tried this route?

But in July and August?

This is a snowbird route.

YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

I have tried looking for the flight but can't find it...does anyone know the schedule?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 40):
Interesting ...

Indeed. See my reply #22.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
FSDan
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 57):
I have tried looking for the flight but can't find it...does anyone know the schedule?

From DL's electronic timetable (which, of course, is very much subject to change this far out):

DL 1419 Dep. ATL 9:50a Arr. YYC 12:22p 738 Saturday only
DL 1419 Dep. YYC 1:20p Arr. ATL 7:33p 738 Saturday only
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:05 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 16):
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 46):
I'm sorry but you are wrong, they probably leased the slots but there is no selling slots, only leasing and trading.
Here is some helpful information on slots at LGA, EWR, JFK and DCA.

Great table. Thank you!
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:08 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-DEN JUL 9>8

DL will be operating a domestic 763 on ATL-DEN this summer.
The schedule currently shows 1-738, 3-M90, 3-757, 1-763
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:16 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 48):Quoting FSDan (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Interesting. Is this the first time DL has tried this route?

But in July and August? This is a snowbird route.

YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.

I get it.

This is like the DL ATL-BIL route and the UA EWR-BZN route.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:06 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
It isn't listed as a separate add.
OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1
*F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>0.8
*F9 DEN-DAY MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.8>0


Thanks for wasting my time chasing down non-existent errors...

FYI, DEN-MDT doesn't appear in the YOY F9 comparison because F9 flew it last year, thus it is not a change.

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
I don't speak for Frontier.

Hard to tell sometimes!

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?
Quoting SANFan (Reply 53):
A dropped route is generally not "announced" by anyone

Exactly.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 53):
That's another reason that many of us appreciate these OAG threads of Enilria -- dropped routes can't hide for long!

 
Yes, it's often the list of shame.
 
point2point
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 61):
DL will be operating a domestic 763 on ATL-DEN this summer.
The schedule currently shows 1-738, 3-M90, 3-757, 1-763

Kool..... DEN gets a DL wide body for the summer. Since it's a domestic, does anyone know where this bird continues to after it reaches ATL? I imagine that it's not flying outside of U.S. boarders.


 
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Yup. Disturbing. Everyone bemoans VX's losses, but this type of behavior hoping to drive them out of business is why.

Looks like they picked the wrong day to be in the airline industry! 
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):

A bit of a joke on the 2nd busiest US-Mexico city pair.

The fares are atrocious--if fares went up to reasonable levels I wonder how small the highly price sensitive market would get
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:24 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Quoting enilria (Reply 39):

Airlines go out of business because of what they do to themselves, not what competitors do to them. It's tough to find many examples of a good business plan that failed due to competitors predatory behavior. VX has a bad business plan.
 
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c172akula
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:12 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.

I'm excited to see some more DL metal into YYC. I wonder if there is the potential for this route to operate in the winter ski season too? Lots of great skiing within a very quick drive from YYC (3 hours and less, some as close as 1-1/2 hours away).
 
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:18 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 64):
Kool..... DEN gets a DL wide body for the summer. Since it's a domestic, does anyone know where this bird continues to after it reaches ATL? I imagine that it's not flying outside of U.S. boarders.

On to another dometic market - SEA, SFO, SLC, LAX most likely.

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 67):
I'm excited to see some more DL metal into YYC. I wonder if there is the potential for this route to operate in the winter ski season too? Lots of great skiing within a very quick drive from YYC (3 hours and less, some as close as 1-1/2 hours away).

I highly doubt DL will operate ATL-YYC in the winter. Right now this is Sat-only service during the peak summer travel season. MSP is DL's primary gateway into the Canadian markets. Even as it is now, DL only operates 2x daily E75 on MSP-YYC during the winter. This is less capacity than NW used to run, and they could add ample capacity into the market as necessary. Skier in the US are much more likely to go to Colorado and Utah than the Canadian Rockies.
 
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mariner
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 63):
OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1
*F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0"0.8
*F9 DEN-DAY MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.8>0 Thanks for wasting my time chasing down non-existent errors...

I think we're talking about different things. There is a change from that and what you now show.

I assume that was the original announcement of CVG at 6 x weekly. It is now on sale as 7 x weekly (not daily) and which you now show in your long comparative list as:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

There is a change which hasn't been noted.

It doesn't matter - it's one frequency on one very small airline - but it is a route that has been much discussed and often in negative terms.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-19 09:36:48]
aeternum nauta
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 65):
Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Yup. Disturbing. Everyone bemoans VX's losses, but this type of behavior hoping to drive them out of business is why.

Looks like they picked the wrong day to be in the airline industry!

I guess...I like competition and not losing some of the few remaining airlines.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 66):
Airlines go out of business because of what they do to themselves, not what competitors do to them.

Well, it's sort of an accumulation of things. 9/11 sent a bunch of airlines into Ch11. I wouldn't say they did that themselves.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 66):
VX has a bad business plan.

I suppose they do, but B6's original business plan wasn't all that different on the opposite coast.

Quoting mariner (Reply 69):
I think we're talking about different things. There is a change from that and what you now show.
Quoting mariner (Reply 69):
That was the original announcement of CVG at 6 x weekly. It is now on sale as 7 x weekly (not daily) and which you now show in your long comparative list as:
Quoting mariner (Reply 69):
it's one frequency on one very small airline

So, you are complaining that DEN-CVG went from 6/week to 7/week and my report didn't flag it??? You are aware that there were 4,000+ changes of less than 2 flights per week in this week's OAG update that nobody here wants to see except you. Why would any sane person want to wreck this report to sift through thousands of irrelevant 1/week changes? As I often say, if you find this thread worthless because it doesn't display changes of 1 flight per week then make your own thread that does.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 62):
This is like the DL ATL-BIL route and the UA EWR-BZN route.

Yes, exactly, although I believe DL flies ATL-BZN, not ATL-BIL.
 
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mariner
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 70):
So, you are complaining that DEN-CVG went from 6/week to 7/week and my report didn't flag it??? You are aware that there were 4,000 changes of less than 2 flights per week in this week's OAG update that nobody here wants to see except you.

Complaining? No. Puzzled? Yes. And pointing out the oddities.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-19 09:57:25]
aeternum nauta
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:13 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.

Aye, I think they call it Jasper National Park which is some most beautiful real estate and geography I've enjoyed driving through in North America. We crossed the border at Glacier National Park Montana and drove to Prince Rupert BC.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:24 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 73):
Aye, I think they call it Jasper National Park which is some most beautiful real estate and geography I've enjoyed driving through in North America. We crossed the border at Glacier National Park Montana and drove to Prince Rupert BC.

There are four national parks in that area and several provincial parks. Jasper is the farthest north, in which YEG is actually a bit closer. I think the previous posting was referring to Banff National Park, which is closer to YYC and where Banff and Lake Louise are. There are ski areas in that area, but I'd definitely consider it more of a summer destination.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 72):
Complaining? No. Puzzled? Yes. And pointing out the oddities.

It's not an oddity. I'm telling you that domestic changes that small aren't shown. It's exactly the way it is supposed to work and I also explained why it's that way.
 
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mariner
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 75):
It's not an oddity. I'm telling you that domestic changes that small aren't shown. It's exactly the way it is supposed to work and I also explained why it's that way.

I understand and accept the "low frequency filter."

It just seems - to me - erratic because it picks up the drops but seems to miss some of the adds and the commentary is usually on the drops, not the adds.

But as I say, it really doesn't matter and if it offends you so much, I'll avoid pointing them out.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 76):
It just seems - to me - erratic because it picks up the drops but seems to miss some of the adds and the commentary is usually on the drops, not the adds.

The reason I comment more on the drops is because the adds are announced in press releases and the drops are rarely announced.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 53):
A dropped route is generally not "announced" by anyone

For example...
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:43 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 71):
Yes, exactly, although I believe DL flies ATL-BZN, not ATL-BIL.

ATL-BIL flew a couple of years ago with a CR-9.

At the time, G4 was new to Billings. But even as a competitor to G4, the route made little long-term sense.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:44 pm

ATL-BIL makes zero sense now with the MSP and SLC service.
 
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mariner
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 77):
The reason I comment more on the drops is because the adds are announced in press releases and the drops are rarely announced.

That still doesn't quite explain how some of the adds are missing.

Look, it's your thread, you do whatever you want to do. If you don't want oddities pointed out or comments on the commentary - at least by me - fine, I won't participate.

I don't come here to fight.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 78):
ATL-BIL flew a couple of years ago with a CR-9.

Wow, that's a long route on an RJ, even a CR9.
 
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c172akula
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:03 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 74):
There are four national parks in that area and several provincial parks. Jasper is the farthest north, in which YEG is actually a bit closer. I think the previous posting was referring to Banff National Park, which is closer to YYC and where Banff and Lake Louise are. There are ski areas in that area, but I'd definitely consider it more of a summer destination.

You are correct, YYC is closest to Banff national park. Driving time is only about 1-1/2 hours to the park gate from the airport.

Absolutely beautiful in the summer, but the winter is nothing to shrug at either.  
 
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yellowtail
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 59):
DL 1419 Dep. ATL 9:50a Arr. YYC 12:22p 738 Saturday only
DL 1419 Dep. YYC 1:20p Arr. ATL 7:33p 738 Saturday only

Thanks!!!

But that won't work for RTB or BZE without an overnight....Arrrrrr!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 81):
Wow, that's a long route on an RJ, even a CR9.

Well, last Sunday I did ELP-IAH-IAD (1854 sm) in an E145. Many of the upscale IAH-IAD folks nearly had a heart attack when the saw the plane.

Btw, last April, I did PSP-IAH-IAD (2454 sm) in a CR-7.

COS-IAD (1464 sm in a CR-7) in now in its second year.

[Edited 2013-02-19 14:52:23]
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 70):
I suppose they do, but B6's original business plan wasn't all that different on the opposite coast.

There are some similarities, such as the focus on service, and operating as an LCC with a home base at an underutilized/overpriced airport in a US megacity.

VX chooses to operate in the most competitive route pairings, with overlap from UA/B6/WN/AA -- markets which have already been stimulated by low fares and have ample capacity. VX does not dominate any market, by any standard, because it chooses to enter the most competitive markets possible to cater to a certain "niche" (one which isn't terribly profitable, apparently). Let us not forget VX is 49% owned by the Virgin Group, which is notorious for losing money just to gain SRB some notoriety.

B6, while operating some very competitive route pairings, has a lot of capacity on various niche/unique markets and route pairings (AZS, LIR, BQN, PCE, SDQ, STI, POP, SXM, BDA, LGB, SRQ), and dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market. Not to mention its takeover of BOS has been rather impressive to watch, and the way it has dissembled AA in the Caribbean is astounding (especially considering the obstacles associated with entering international markets).

JetBluefan1
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:15 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 70):

B6 was very different from VX in their business plan. The NE to Florida is a very large price sensitive market with seemingly no bottom. Transcons are not as price sensitive.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:24 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 80):
That still doesn't quite explain how some of the adds are missing.

Look, it's your thread, you do whatever you want to do. If you don't want oddities pointed out or comments on the commentary - at least by me - fine, I won't participate.

I don't come here to fight.

I've explained it. I told you what the repercussions would be of changing it to do what you want it to do and they are not acceptable. Continually questioning the accuracy of the post is grating. The code is the same for every airline.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
There are some similarities, such as the focus on service, and operating as an LCC with a home base at an underutilized/overpriced airport in a US megacity.

I think the difference really is the reaction to VX at SFO is much stronger than B6 at JFK. UA was shrinking at SFO. WN didn't even operate there at all. When B6 entered JFK, the other carriers said "let them have JFK, we'll stay at LGA". VX got a much sterner reaction and it continues.

It is true that VX has attempted to focus on business rather than leisure and that has proven to be a very successful formula for large airlines and a very unsuccessful formula for start-ups. OTOH, JFK was not a very successful place for start-ups till B6.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 86):
B6 was very different from VX in their business plan. The NE to Florida is a very large price sensitive market with seemingly no bottom. Transcons are not as price sensitive.

Yes, but B6 was very heavily invested in transcons at the onset. That was the bulk of their capacity. That changed later. Perhaps VX didn't have the flexibility of a Florida equivalent on the West Coast.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 70):
B6's original business plan wasn't all that different on the opposite coast.

B6 was much more successful than VX at setting itself apart from the competition as well as generating free publicity and 'buzz'. Doing that in NYC had a much bigger impact than trying to do it in a much smaller California market.
 
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mariner
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 87):
I've explained it. I told you what the repercussions would be of changing it to do what you want it to do and they are not acceptable. Continually questioning the accuracy of the post is grating. The code is the same for every airline.

If you are content that the information you post (and thus the commentary based on it) may be inaccurate then, as I say, this is not a thread for me.

Others appreciate it and I surely don't want to spoil their fun - I'm just looking out for my own.

Enjoy.  

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:54 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 80):
That still doesn't quite explain how some of the adds are missing.



Out of all the airlines, F9 probably is the most difficult to track because their schizophrenic approach to adding and discontinuing routes.

USA Today had a funny article on February 19th discussing F9's struggle to find a viable route map that works for the airline. One quote from the article states the following:

"Where does Frontier Airlines fly? More and more, that may depend on when you ask"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...nd-a-route-map-that-works/1928881/
 
airliner371
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:01 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 89):

What is inaccurate, if you are talking about the .1 frequencies missing I think you are asking for a bit much.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:06 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 90):
Out of all the airlines, F9 probably is the most difficult to track because their schizophrenic approach to adding and discontinuing routes.

Indeed.

But given Wall Street's reaction to the recently revised guidance for Frontier, it may only be a problem for airline folk.

The money men are cheering. I guess a.net will catch up,

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 91):
What is inaccurate, if you are talking about the .1 frequencies missing I think you are asking for a bit much.

I'm talking about a while list of things that I have queried. As one example, I'm still puzzled that - according to these threads - Frontier was dramatically reducing TTN-MCO in March.

It didn't happen.

But I've said I;m out of here - why not just let me go?  

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-20 10:38:06]
aeternum nauta
 
Flytravel
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market

I'd be curious if B6 strengthens their FLL focus battling it with WN and other carriers on some fronts, with
PHL-FLL, PIT-FLL, BWI-FLL, ORD-FLL, CLT-FLL, MCO-FLL, MSY-FLL, and even ATL-FLL if B6 goes to ATL.

I can't gauge WN's interest in FLL if it'll be secondary to MCO and TPA for Florida to them. Certain routes like RDU-FLL and PHL-FLL have been downsized or cut, and SJU is still on FL.

Although B6 tried CLT-FLL before, CLT-S.Florida will be a monopoly with a AA/US merger. If the carrier can build around it at FLL, and have backtrack connections via FLL, it might have a better chance of succeeding when it tries it again.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:58 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 61):
DL will be operating a domestic 763 on ATL-DEN this summer.The schedule currently shows 1-738, 3-M90, 3-757, 1-763

Wow! When's the last time Denver has scheduled widebody sevice on Delta? It's been quite a while. So, how are the 76Q stations shaping up this summer. I'm expecting the usual suspects; ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, LAX, LAS, SEA, PHX?, SEA, SAN, SFO any others? Seems like SJU will remain al 57s. Was quite a long run with the 763 down there doing ATL-SJU for close to a year.

Quoting point2point (Reply 64):
Kool..... DEN gets a DL wide body for the summer. Since it's a domestic, does anyone know where this bird continues to after it reaches ATL? I imagine that it's not flying outside of U.S. boarders.

Turn to another station that gets a 76Q ex ATL.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 81):
Wow, that's a long route on an RJ, even a CR9.

Mhmmm. MTJ has been operated by a CR9 for a while. ATL-STX also saw CR7/9 service and that's about 1600 miles.
What gets measured gets done.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 94):
Wow! When's the last time Denver has scheduled widebody sevice on Delta? It's been quite a while. So, how are the 76Q stations shaping up this summer. I'm expecting the usual suspects; ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, LAX, LAS, SEA, PHX?, SEA, SAN, SFO any others? Seems like SJU will remain al 57s. Was quite a long run with the 763 down there doing ATL-SJU for close to a year.

DTW: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-3

MSP: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-1, LAS-1, ANC-1

ATL: (11)
SEA-1, SFO-3, LAX-2, SAN-1, SLC-3, DEN-1,

SLC: (3)
ATL-3

DTW, MSP, ATL, SEA, SFO, LAX, SAN, LAS, SLC, DEN, ANC
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26600
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:19 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
and dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market.

Florida-Northeast is not highly profitable.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
and the way it has dissembled AA in the Caribbean is astounding (especially considering the obstacles associated with entering international markets).

AA is, by far, the dominating airline between the U.S. and Caribbean. It is very impressive that JetBlue has been able to drive AA largely out of JFK-Caribbean, but JetBlue is nowhere near AA's size in the Caribbean market, even moreso after the US merger.
a.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5155
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 94):
Wow! When's the last time Denver has scheduled widebody sevice on Delta? It's been quite a while. So, how are the 76Q stations shaping up this summer.

I think SLC is seeing 3 to ATL this summer.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:04 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 95):
DTW: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-3

MSP: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-1, LAS-1, ANC-1

ATL: (11)
SEA-1, SFO-3, LAX-2, SAN-1, SLC-3, DEN-1,

SLC: (3)
ATL-3

DTW, MSP, ATL, SEA, SFO, LAX, SAN, LAS, SLC, DEN, ANC

Don't forget SLC-HNL x1! It looks like ATL-SLC is now 1 daily 763 as of today's electronic timetable update. MSP-ANC is great to see, and starts in July. In addition to the above there will be international 767s on LAX-HNL, ATL-SEA, ATL-LAX, JFK-SEA, JFK-LAX, ATL-DTW, and ATL-JFK. And, of course, the daily 77L on ATL-LAX.

I'm a big fan of DL's domestic widebody portfolio for this summer, and I hope it sticks and is not just an optimistic approximation (usually it seems that the schedules aren't firmed up until ~2 months out).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN

Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:05 am



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 96):

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
and dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market.

Florida-Northeast is not highly profitable.
.


Although I cannot speak to the profitability of Northeast-Florida, it is interesting to note that B6 has made Northeast-Caribbean very successful and profitable. Below is an excerpt from page 6 of their last annual report:

The growth of our route network since 2008 was primarily through the addition of new destinations in the Caribbean and Latin America, markets which have historically matured more quickly in terms of cash break-even and profitability than mainland flights of comparable distances. As of December 31, 2011, approximately 25% of our capacity was in the Caribbean and Latin America......

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....html?c=131045&p=irol-reportsAnnual

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