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ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:01 pm

I would have expected service to a few more places. BHX, NCL, GLA.

ABZ, MAN and EDI hardly seem enough to feed the long-haul network.
 
bthebest
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:04 pm

I think 'Virgin Baby' would be a pretty bad one
 
alfa164
Posts: 3856
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:10 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 51):

Although launching this new airline might be considered a "Virgin Birth".

Here's a new airline for the new Pope!!!
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
BOCHORA
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:49 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:02 pm

2 a/c, I-EEZG and I-EEZF, are currently undergoing maintenance prior to delivery to EI and then VS.
 
visualapproach
Topic Author
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:09 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:13 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 52):

There are connotations to being leased 'wet' at the control of a Virgin.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3856
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:32 pm

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 54):
There are connotations to being leased 'wet' at the control of a Virgin

I've always wanted t lease a virgin myself...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:36 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 50):
I would have expected service to a few more places. BHX, NCL, GLA.

BHX-LHR? err no! The two are just 1h30mins apart down the M40 (subject to traffic of course). There is probably some restriction that slots can only be released for destinations that BD were actually flying to at the time of take over so so that would rule out NCL and GLA. The other domestic destination was Belfast but BA were not flying there before so no decrease in competetion hence no need to release slots to generate some. Simple really.
 
aamd11
Posts: 923
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 11:54 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:53 pm

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 44):
Three years until the slots can be used for longhaul.

Can the slots be used for longhaul after three years? I thought I read they could only be used for certain routes after the three year period - ie, they could be used for any of the other remedy destinations after three years. I don't think they can be used for just any route after three years.
 
bohica
Posts: 2461
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:50 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 4):
little red riding hood

That's exactly what I thought when I heard this. This reminds me of a song that is now stuck in my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVVLbe1rfY
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:16 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 37):
At least the didn't call it "Little Virgin"...

Virgin Cherry would have been interesting.

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 39):
Little Red...sort of like little TED.

"sort of like TED"... would have been GIN... "We'll bring the GIN, you being the mixer."
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:02 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 36):
Problem is if they want to grow from the "couple" of routes which at last time I counted they had 23 long haul departures ex lhr daily, then they need to have some more feed as they have obviously matured in the amount of P2P traffic they can attract at LHR.

Ahh. So Virgin Atlantic will become not so 'virgin' after all ? Shacking up with the worlds largest airline, joining an alliance, a joint venture across the Atlantic etc etc

What exactly were all those VS protests aimed at British Airways about not so long ago ?

You know if VS does reach 'critical mass' it will be very difficult to return to the relatively cushioned little world in which it currently operates. Rather like an aircraft passing the 'V1' point.

I am rather concerned that with just a very small percentage of LHR slots its core operations will not be able to financially support the rest of the airline profitably. There are just too many options for people flying longhaul these day from northern UK airports.
 
virgincrew
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:17 am

I personally think the name is fantastic - it's original and very Virgin !

My understanding is that the aircraft will be in full VS livery, just with the added titles 'Little Red' as per the new logo. The cabin crew will be in VS uniform and the aircraft is all Y config with leather seats.

I can't wait to see the A320 in VS colours.




Hello Beautiful !!!
 
anstar
Posts: 3342
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:16 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 60):
Ahh. So Virgin Atlantic will become not so 'virgin'

Well after 29 years in operation they are not exactly "virgin" as you put it are they.

As much as I am sure people would like to see them go, they have a fair amount of cash and 2 very strong shareholders - so any thoughts of VS disappearing seem more wishful thinking.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3856
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:43 pm

"Little Red"???

How could thay have overlooked "Red Dwarf"?  
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Vimanav
Posts: 1471
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:33 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:35 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 1):
Little Red

Kingfisher Red - was exactly that - wallowed in red ink and dyed (pun intended)

Little Red - expecting to lose a little money, a litte here and a little there ??????

brgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
usctrojan18
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:23 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:29 pm

Any chance VS starts flights to other European airport. My first choices would be AMS, CDG, MAD, FRA, MXP, MUC, and maybe FCO or ZRH.
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2595
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 61):
I personally think the name is fantastic - it's original and very Virgin !

I like the branding actually. Very good and it doesn't have much of that "introductory period" (i.e. like it/don't like it) a lot of modified liveries have.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
David_itl
Posts: 6445
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:39 pm

Zero chance unless they "magic" up a number of slots from somewhere i.e. by doing what BA has been doing successfully for years in buying them from other operators. Then they would only have the problem of having to source aircraft - you'd be looking at operating double daily at least on those routes to try and compete with other airlines, so another 4 to 6 aircraft would be needed depending on what kind of operation they wanted; for maximum connectivity, you'd be looking at 6 aircraft so that "long-haul"-LHR-"Euro network" could be achieved. Now if VS had put a proper bid in for BD, they might have stood a chance of doing that.
 
Gingersnap
Posts: 913
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 65):
ny chance VS starts flights to other European airport.

Doubtful. I expect these flights to end in three years, the aircraft returned and long haul flights set up in place. This is just VS following the regulators orders.
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W B788 C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:07 am

Quoting david_itl (Reply 67):
Zero chance unless they "magic" up a number of slots from somewhere i.e. by doing what BA has been doing successfully for years in buying them from other operators. Then they would only have the problem of having to source aircraft - you'd be looking at operating double daily at least on those routes to try and compete with other airlines, so another 4 to 6 aircraft would be needed depending on what kind of operation they wanted; for maximum connectivity, you'd be looking at 6 aircraft so that "long-haul"-LHR-"Euro network" could be achieved. Now if VS had put a proper bid in for BD, they might have stood a chance of doing that.

  

There is (as we all know) such a massive O&D market out of LHR that an airline the small size of VS should be able to survive very comfortably without feed. (especially considering the 'no-brainer' routes they serve)

It is simply a case of losing their edge and not having a good enough product. They are no better or worse than BA or the improving American carriers and they are way behind Asian carriers.

For far, far too long they have seemed to only be able to recognize BA as the competition who have things going for them that VS will never be able to replicate. They should have focussed on quality and service rather than silly hype and advertising that the product fails in reality to deliver on.

Considering the size of their fleet they should have fantastic products and service standards that match those of airlines like SQ.

'Little Red' is a half baked and doomed response to BD's unfortunate demise combined with a heroic yet futile battle based on a long dead and totally irrelevant attitude towards BA.
 
slinky09
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:03 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:07 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 69):
Considering the size of their fleet they should have fantastic products and service standards that match those of airlines like SQ.

Having flown both a few times in J this last year I know I'd still rather fly VS over SQ. Great product maybe, poor lounges, served up by robots with no personality - IMO.

Looking forward to my first domestic VS flight - actually the first one ever on March 31st. Eagerly awaiting news on the cabin layout since VS is taking out all seats and refurbing ...
 
Hywel
Posts: 705
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:51 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:11 pm

At least they've put their financial performance in the title.
 
virgincrew
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting Hywel (Reply 71):
At least they've put their financial performance in the title.

How do you work that out ?

VS has always been profitable except for couple of their 29 years !

VS has alot of cash in the bank and will deffo be here to stay.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 69):
For far, far too long they have seemed to only be able to recognize BA as the competition who have things going for them that VS will never be able to replicate.

What things are these that you mention ?
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
virgincrew
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 70):
Eagerly awaiting news on the cabin layout since VS is taking out all seats and refurbing ...

On the VS website, it shows an all 'Y' config cabin with leather seats....

Purple like the Premium Economy & Upper Class seats would be nice.

Will be interesting to see if they put any other cabin extras.
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:34 pm

Quoting gingersnap (Reply 68):
For far, far too long they have seemed to only be able to recognize BA as the competition who have things going for them that VS will never be able to replicate. They should have focussed on quality and service rather than silly hype and advertising that the product fails in reality to deliver on.

Considering the size of their fleet they should have fantastic products and service standards that match those of airlines like SQ.

'Little Red' is a half baked and doomed response to BD's unfortunate demise combined with a heroic yet futile battle based on a long dead and totally irrelevant attitude towards BA.

I agree with you up to the last paragraph. This is a perfect opportunity for BA to get there hands on some LHR slots which in three years time they (or DL) can use for whatever the hell they like!
 
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shamrock604
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:38 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 73):
On the VS website, it shows an all 'Y' config cabin with leather seats....

Purple like the Premium Economy & Upper Class seats would be nice.

Will be interesting to see if they put any other cabin extras.

I'm going to guess it will be a standard EI cabin. Reason being that 4 aircraft is not a large fleet, and the flexibility to sometimes swap out other EI A320's for maintenance, tech etc may be required.

The EI cabin is pretty inoffensive anyway, with those ink blue leather seats. A few purple head rest covers and you have a bit of branding....
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:23 am

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 72):
VS has alot of cash in the bank and will deffo be here to stay.

I'm sure nobody (truthfully) on this site wants to see VS go but all this talk of 'going head to head with BA' is now boring and somewhat of an exageration considering the schedules / timetables / size etc of the two carriers. (both internationally AND domestic ! )
 
parapente
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:06 am

Re Above.
Three year lease on the EI birds.
Three years until the slots can be used for longhaul.
Three years until bye-bye Little Red.

Sums it up I feel.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:23 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 77):
Three year lease on the EI birds.
Three years until the slots can be used for longhaul.
Three years until bye-bye Little Red.

How does that solve the growing problem of no feed and the breaking down of VS' point to point reliance? No point in having DL in the US if only peeps near Heathrow can access it. I agree it's likely but it's predicated on the assumption that VS long haul is somehow able to continue making money on it's own, they're rather concerned that they can't. Talk elsewhere is that Dubai might be next for the chop.

Little red sounds like something that bleeds cash IMHO. I understand the aircraft will carry the following marks.
G-VTMP Patient Polly
G-VSIT Slot Sitting Sarah
G-VHST Not Related at all Business Bertha

[Edited 2013-03-04 04:32:21]
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:28 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 77):
Three years until the slots can be used for longhaul.

It is very, very, clear in the guidance for the release of slots that they cannot eventually be converted to general long-haul use - only the routes for which BA had to release slots, or general short-haul use.
 
je89_w
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:31 pm

Quoting BOCHORA (Reply 53):
2 a/c, I-EEZG and I-EEZF, are currently undergoing maintenance prior to delivery to EI and then VS.

Which are currently re-registered as EI-EZV (currently being painted) and EI-EZW respectively. However, I believe these A320s will receive G-XXXX registrations before delivery.

I must say that it looks quite nice!
 
Lofty
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:23 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:05 pm

I guess VS passengers will be able to us the EI lounge in T1? this is going to be a bit of a come down from the VS T3 Lounge or Club House or whatever they call it.
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:42 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 78):
How does that solve the growing problem of no feed and the breaking down of VS' point to point reliance? No point in having DL in the US if only peeps near Heathrow can access it. I agree it's likely but it's predicated on the assumption that VS long haul is somehow able to continue making money on it's own, they're rather concerned that they can't. Talk elsewhere is that Dubai might be next for the chop.

skipness I understand totally the point you are making about feed but surely VS can fill its aircraft on the routes they serve ?

I mean this is LHR we're talking about and it's not like VS entertain multiiple daily frequencies. JFK accepted but you can walk up and down the hard shoulder of the M25 with an advertising billboard and fill them !!
 
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pu
Posts: 1364
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:08 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:04 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 25):
VS again is more driven by its rather tired aim of competeing against a relatively much matured BA than securing its own rather shaky future in areas that 'really' matter. I'm afraid UK domestic is not it.

There are twice as many members of Delta's SkyMiles loyalty programme as there are people living in the UK, and Delta is (depending on how you measure it) either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd largest airline in the world. Delta will earn a profit this year in the region of USD 2 billion: probably the largest profit in the history of the airline business.

Delta's rising dominance in New York City alone is probably enough to make Little Red profitable, which Delta half owns.

IAG's ongoing fiasco speaks for itself. Will VS, DL and Litle Red push BA out of LHR? Of course not, but Delta's proven management and their new role in VS is a formidable match for BA's tired and failing strategy... .DL/VS/SkyTeam frequent fliers can support a modest little domestic service like Little Red....these fliers today are mostly involuntarily forced to fly BA which is not their preferred carrier from LHR.



PU

[Edited 2013-03-05 07:13:08]
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Domestic Introduces "Little Red"

Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 83):
is a formidable match for BA's tired and failing strategy...

Could you enlighten me about BA's tired and failing strategy ?

I'm thinking BD's slots, AA and US being the worlds largest airline, Qatar and Latam joining Oneworld, IB being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century, the BA A380 which will be flying many of VS's most profitable and DL aligned routes etc etc

Quoting Pu (Reply 83):
.DL/VS/SkyTeam frequent fliers can support a modest little domestic service like Little Red

Mmm.....a modest little domestic service to support a modest little international service.

3, 4 % of slots. VS could have 100% load factor 100% of the time........it aint gonna make much of an impact is it.

Quoting Pu (Reply 83):
IAG's ongoing fiasco speaks for itself.

One can hardly call something that will return an airline to profitability and secure its long term future a 'fiasco'.

Share prices do not rise 8% on annual results day on the back of a 'fiasco'.

Cheers.

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