Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting airsmiles (Reply 2): I'm not quoting facts here but I believe there was a similar cargo door failure on an American AL DC10 prior to the THY accident. I think the accident was put down to a manufacturing defect on the latch mechanism, but that's my recollection only. |
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4): Quoting airsmiles (Reply 2): I'm not quoting facts here but I believe there was a similar cargo door failure on an American AL DC10 prior to the THY accident. I think the accident was put down to a manufacturing defect on the latch mechanism, but that's my recollection only. You are correct, it was AA-96, about 2 years earlier, another DC-10-10, N103AA. That was a near disaster, too. But the AA crew managed to regain control of the airplane and made an emergency landing at DTW. This was the Windsor incident. |
Quoting airsmiles (Reply 2): TC-JAV was the 2nd for THY and was en-route to London-Heathrow so this accident was badly felt in the UK. |
Quoting CairnterriAIR (Thread starter): Was there a stigma placed on the DC-10 that was later seen after the crash in Chicago? Very gruesome crash and hearing about what rescue workers initially faced...I can not imagine. |
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5): If memory correct, the TK DC-10 had not yet been modified to cover FAA recommendations following the AA accident. |
Quoting CairnterriAIR (Thread starter): Was there a stigma placed on the DC-10 that was later seen after the crash in Chicago? |
Quoting type-rated (Reply 8): Also to add to the problem was that the door instructions written on the door itself was only in English. And the ramp worker at CDG didn't speak English. |
Quoting Aesma (Reply 13): Well, I'm not sure you can expect a panel to be in dozens of languages, nor a minimum wage worker to speak a foreign language. Aren't ramp workers trained for each aircraft, at least a lead one or something like that ? |
Quoting type-rated (Reply 8): and to put a sight window on the door so you could visually ensure that the door was truly latched. |
Quoting Aesma (Reply 13): Aren't ramp workers trained for each aircraft, at least a lead one or something like that ? |
Quoting frontierflyer (Reply 12): It didn't help the flight was heavily booked, probably caused the floor to really cave in with all the extra weight . |
Quoting type-rated (Reply 8): worker at CDG didn't speak English. |
Quoting longhauler (Reply 10): Adding to the cargo door issues, was another design flaw with regard to the venting of the rear cargo hold to the cabin above. It was not sufficient, so when the rear cargo hold decompressed, the pressure differential caused the rear cabin floor to buckle. When the cabin floor buckled, control of engine 2 was lost, as well as some flight controls. It was the loss of this control that caused the crash. These circumstances were identical to the DC-10 of AA over YQG and landing in DTW. |
Quoting HBGDS (Reply 16): No mention of mechanics not speaking English; where did you get that one? |
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1): The aircraft, a DC-10-10 was, IIRC the first or second DC-10 delivered to TK, after they were leased from UA, but not delivered to that airline. I believe it was around the 30th DC-10 built. |
Quoting Aesma (Reply 13): Well, I'm not sure you can expect a panel to be in dozens of languages, nor a minimum wage worker to speak a foreign language. Aren't ramp workers trained for each aircraft, at least a lead one or something like that ? |
Quoting type-rated (Reply 8): I believe the correction was to make the door handle harder to close if latched improperly and to put a sight window on the door so you could visually ensure that the door was truly latched. |
Quoting type-rated (Reply 8): This info comes from a book published a few years after the accident. I think it was called "The Last 10 Seconds" or something like that. |
Quoting cv990coronado (Reply 24): The first was the so call "Applegate Memo" Involves communication between Convair ( General Dynamics) who were the subcontractors on part of the fuselage including the cargo door. In this memo Convair told McDonnell/Douglas that it was an unsafe design. They were basically told to get on and built it as there were just sub contractors. |
Quoting airsmiles (Reply 2): and was en-route to London-Heathrow so this accident was badly felt in the UK |
Quoting CairnterriAIR (Thread starter): Was there a stigma placed on the DC-10 that was later seen after the crash in Chicago? |
Quoting cv990coronado (Reply 24): Reply 24, posted Mon Mar 4 2013 05:21:57 your local time (9 hours 35 minutes 45 secs ago) and read 6459 times: There was an excellent book about the crash and the development of the DC10 by a Sunday Times Insight team called "Destination Disaster". The team was lead by Paul Eddy with Elaine Potter and Bruce Page. |
Quoting TK1244 (Reply 35): According to the episode "behind closed doors" of air crash investigation, the maintenance records of TC-JAV said that the modifications were done while this wasn't true... |
Quoting lh526 (Reply 22): If I was an Airline operator and I would contract an airport (or one of its subsidiaries) to handle my aircraft during turnaround, I expect every one of the workers and handlers to put the utmost care into their efforts, including going by the book where absolutely necessary. I expect trained personnel and duty managers and supervisors doing a proper job. |
Quoting lh526 (Reply 22): We are not talking about a carpenter laying a wood-floor, but a tin-box carrying 300+ pax! |
Quoting planespotting (Reply 43): So when you have a baggage door with the design of the DC-10, and it needs to be closed before every flight on hundreds of airplanes multiple times a day, your n goes up, up and up. |
Quoting planespotting (Reply 43): Finally the right combination of factors lines up (the accident "swiss cheese") and an event like this happens. It's an interesting engineering and human factors problem. |
Quoting longhauler (Reply 44): Understand, I am not arguing with you. I find this area interesting, and it is my area of education as well. |
Quoting longhauler (Reply 44): Understand, I am not arguing with you. I find this area interesting, and it is my area of education as well. |
Quoting HBGDS (Reply 16): The report does reference the N103AA incident in June 72, and notes that the service directive was not implemented on the TK machine. No mention of mechanics not speaking English; where did you get that one? But it does mention they failed to inspect the access window, though it was very small, to check on the lock mechanism. |
Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 48): The report does reference the N103AA incident in June 72, and notes that the service directive was not implemented on the TK machine. No mention of mechanics not speaking English; where did you get that one? But it does mention they failed to inspect the access window, though it was very small, to check on the lock mechanism. From the book "The Last Nine Minutes" by Moira Johnston. It's a very good book about this accident and is available on Amazon. Maybe you should read it? |