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Skydrol
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:48 am

Don't see a problem with small knives either. And the sooner they abolish the liquids ban, the sooner the line ups at security checkpoints will reduce.

Why be worried about a small knife?

Case:

Passenger in seat 34D is using a laptop.

Passenger in seat 33D does not just recline, but SLAMS their seat back, crushing the display of the laptop on the table for 34D, behind.

Passenger in seat 34D retrieves the power cord for their laptop (which is welcome aboard by TSA and airlines), drops it over the head of the passenger in seat 33D, pulls it tight and its lights out in 33D with a crushed windpipe...


Should everything be banned? How can you predict if someone is going to have a bad temper and do something crazy with whatever than can get their hands on? How about a jagged, smashed duty free booze bottle being swung around at others in a furious rage? Or hitting someone full force over the head with a laptop? Or whipped with the buckle of a seatbelt extension? All allowed aboard, all with potential to choke, stab, bludgeon.and kill.





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Braybuddy
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:42 am

Why on earth would anyone need to carry a knife on board an aircraft? Funny that I've managed to survive and travel around the world over all these years without the need to carry a knife. If you ever do need a knife for something - which, strangely, has never occurred -- you can always buy one at your destination.
 
Unflug
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:46 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 2):
Why?

Why allow a knife on board? Just for the heck of it?

... because it is not dangerous as long as the words "Terrorist" or "Bomb" are not mentioned  

On the serious side, I think this is the simple answer:

Quoting PITingres (Reply 15):
The TSA rules are, or at least ought to be, about flight safety, not preventing some wacko from hurting someone else. The small knife restriction, like the liquids restriction, has no meaning for flight safety.
 
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b727fa
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:03 am

>>You can do serious damage with your fists if you're a nutter. I've seen it. Should we require all passengers be bound and gagged too? (wink wink)

I've often wished I had my "key chain" Swiss Army Knife for the little scissors, or the small blade to cut a thread or a buggery sliver.

[Edited 2013-03-06 00:07:31]
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:51 am

Heck, if anyone wanted to cause harm, wouldn't it be easier to strangle someone with a shoelace??
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
unityofsaints
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:19 am

I like the change but liquids should have been allowed back in first. Obviously drinks are more of a cash cow at airports than knives...
 
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antoniemey
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:22 am

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 22):
The first time some drunk pulls a knife on someone, we're back to square one...or worse.

How many times, in the history of commercial aviation, has a drunk passenger pulled a knife aboard an aircraft?

I'll wait while you go find some examples.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):
Are you sure they couldn't cut your throat and force entry by picking on the smallest female? How confident are you?

I'm confident in 2 things:

A: the pilots are now trained to not surrender the plane to a would-be hijacker for ANY reason.
B: the passengers on an average flight are going to swarm anyone they think is acting funny, rightly or wrongly. A knife MIGHT be dangerous, but it's not going to hold a planeful of people at bay.

Quoting globetrotter29 (Reply 38):
I fail to understand why a person would need to bring a readily accessible blade of any length onto an aircraft.

People carry them. Maybe to open that new pair of headphones they bought for the trip and tossed in their bag without thinking about how hard the plastic will be to deal with.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 45):
It makes me slightly uncomfortable that this is allowed

Did it make you slightly uncomfortable that it was allowed 12 years ago (Pre-9/11)?

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 47):
Anyway the TSA lost me with their 50 million dollar uniform order the day before the sequestration kicked in. They are out of touch...

It took you that long?
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
bralo20
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:32 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 7):
The FAs were badly cut on 9/11, you can do serious damage with a box cutter if you're a nutter.

You can also do serious damage with a glass, reason to ban all glass from flights? You can also do serious damage with flamable alcohol, reason to ban whisky, cognac, or other liquors from flights? You can even do serious damage with a plastic knife and fork, reason to ban them too and eat with our hands? And you can even do serious damage with any kind of powersource, reason to have dark flights with no electricity?


Even a stupid briefcase, like for example the decent ones from Zero Halliburton are very though and will easily knock someone down if you hit someone with it, it probably won't even have a single scratch on it...

My point is, people with bad intentions really don't need a pocket knife, if one wants to harm someone or even try to hijack a plane there a plenty of ways to do it without having to smuggle something on board. Nearly everything on a plane can be used as a kind of weapon. Glass, alcohol, plastic, metal parts, everything is a potential weapon in the hands of people with knowledge and bad intentions. Banning liquids, pocket knifes, etc... doesn't make any sense anymore (nor it ever made any sense).
 
soon7x7
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 54):

Fires burn Hot enough...why the need to toss some gasoline on it?. As a pilot I always carry a knife on my belt in case of a forced landing and I must cut my harness in the event the buckle is inop but as a passenger in a transport aircraft?...These days I wouldn't think of it. It is a stupid move.
 
brilondon
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
Why is it that we all of a sudden need "reasons" for going about our daily business? Last I checked, one of the founding principles of the US was freedom, the freedom to do as one pleases, so long as it doesn't violate anyone's basic rights. And the burden of proof for that lies with the state, not the individual.

Ah yes the illusion of freedom.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):

Hot coffee is a weapon in the hands of the wrong person. Should we be banning Starbucks from airplanes, too?

Yes we should,but not for safety reasons but for reasons of good taste.  
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
kalvado
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:40 pm

Why would 2" knife on-board be considered more dangerous than a 2" knife elsewhere? Only reason I see is 9/11 type event; and that is not going to happen. If anything goes wrong, bad guy will be met by friendly SWAT team, willing to assist at the nearest airport. Moreover, there is no chance to escape from airborne plane - police wouldn't have hard time looking for offender. Yes, stabbings do happen on the ground - but risk on-board is likely lower than elsewhere.
Why would someone need XXX on board? - because with current checked luggage policies, not having something on-board is the same as not having it at the destination. I am not ready to pay $50 to be able to cut my fingernail during 2-week trip; and yes, my pocket knife (with 1.5" deadly dull blade and nice little scissors) is the most convenient tool for that.
 
Gatorman96
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:04 pm

I can assure you, if someone attempts to hijack an aircraft with a 2.36" Swiss Army knife, they will first be laughed at, then beaten to a pulp (taped to a chair if they are on Iceland Air).
 
kaitak
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:40 pm

I agree with those who have said that no-one needs to have a knife on their person or in their hand baggage on a flight. I think this is a retrograde step. I do not blame the cabin crew unions for their position on this; it's easy for pilots not to mind - they have a 6" steel door between them and any nutcases!

Two points come to mind:
1) The TSA is only permitting this, not mandating it - so presumably carriers can have their own regulations which would permit them to deplane any pax with a knife or divert if it were to be produced in flight?
2) Is this rule just for domestic routes? What about non-US carriers and in particular their regulatory authorities. How would the CAA (or others) feel about having pax board with knives?

Wouldn't it be ironic if a pax were to be in the situation where it was ok to bring a knife on board, but be ticked off (or thrown off) for taking a photo!
 
boeingkid
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm

Unreal that they are allowing knives but not bottles of water
 
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PITingres
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:05 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 51):
Why on earth would anyone need to carry a knife on board an aircraft?

Because many if not most pocket corkscrews seem to include a stub knife that as of today falls afoul of the silly rule. I like to carry a pocket corkscrew in my toiletries case, and if I'm not checking a bag, I have to remember to take the darn thing out or lose it.

People also seem to forget that screening is not free. I have lost countless precious, irreplaceable hours of my life -- and so has every other air traveler -- to stupid screening rules that take more time than necessary. The TSA mandate is not about protecting an individual (FA or pax) from another individual, it's about preventing an aircraft from being used as a bomb, and secondarily about preventing loss of a single aircraft if possible. I take my chances against the crazies every day, in every public place, just like everyone else; I don't see trading more hours of my life for a very very VERY small, incremental, mostly theoretical improvement in personal safety while in flight.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
Gatorman96
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:05 pm

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 63):
Unreal that they are allowing knives but not bottles of water

Although these scenarios are highly unlikely, I'm far more concerned about a bomb being fashioned out of a water bottle or some other type of liquid container than I am about highjackers and pocket knives...

That being said, I look very forward to the day the liquids ban gets lifted...
 
PC12Fan
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 4):

   Spot on.

Quoting tugger (Reply 5):
Why would it suddenly begin to happen now when it didn't happen before?

You put the idea of the possibility in the "nutters" head and there you go.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
Last I checked, one of the founding principles of the US was freedom, the freedom to do as one pleases, so long as it doesn't violate anyone's basic rights.

I'm betting nineteen extremists took that into consideration.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
No, there won't be.

Bet they thought no one would ever fly 767's into two iconic buildings either.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
You can do serious damage with your fists if you're a nutter.

But you can't put them in your checked luggage last I checked.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
JONC777
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 4):
A 2.36" blade is still substantial enough to cause serious injury. Forget terrorism. There will be people getting stabbed during simple fisticuffs. And there is zero reason, anyone will need one in flight.

What if you just want to be able to defend yourself against someone who has one ??  
 
b6a322
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:32 pm

Some of the comments on here really seem to remind me of the Monty Python bit "How to defend yourself using only a piece of fruit".

Back to the main point, which is that knives are currently a more detectable danger than liquids. Its easy to see someone's intentions IF they were to try to use a pocket knife aggressively.

But on the other hand, think of how many clear liquids look like water...I can think of Vinegar, Epinephrine, Atropine, Adenosine, Sodium Bicarbonate, Lighter fluid, toluene...the list goes on - and the resources don't exist to check every single bottle of clear liquid that goes through the checkpoint. Granted I'm sure the rules will change in the future for global alignment, but at present the liquid issue is still seen as too much of a risk. At some point it will be reevaluated.
The content I post are my own thoughts, nothing more. :)
 
mia305
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:35 pm

I don't like the idea of that. A knife can cause damage regardless of
length. Granted, we became more vigilant and made modifications
after 9/11 but nowadays people just snap and if that happened
to the wrong person with a knife you've got problems.
 
brilondon
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 63):

Unreal that they are allowing knives but not bottles of water

That I believe is going to be lifted in January of next year.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Freshside3
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting b6a322 (Reply 68):
But on the other hand, think of how many clear liquids look like water...I can think of Vinegar, Epinephrine, Atropine, Adenosine, Sodium Bicarbonate, Lighter fluid, toluene...the list goes on - and the resources don't exist to check every single bottle of clear liquid that goes through the checkpoint. Granted I'm sure the rules will change in the future for global alignment, but at present the liquid issue is still seen as too much of a risk. At some point it will be reevaluated.

You would think, though, with all the sophisticated screening devices at airports in this day and age, they would be able to detect what's in the bottle.

Also, there are items that are fragile that involve liquids(i.e. decorative snow globes) besides the obvious liquor and perfume.

They've got it backwards......force the check-in of hockey sticks and the like(since they are tough as nails, won't break easily, and therefore no need to bring in the cabin.......but allow the liquids.

And just because Europe is doing this, we don't have to play "follow the leader".........we have the perogative to be more strict than Europe on some things, if we want to.
 
b6a322
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 71):
You would think, though, with all the sophisticated screening devices at airports in this day and age, they would be able to detect what's in the bottle.

Yes, one would think. I just don't think the technology is fast and reliable enough to be there yet.

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 71):
They've got it backwards......force the check-in of hockey sticks and the like(since they are tough as nails, won't break easily, and therefore no need to bring in the cabin.......but allow the liquids.

Your same argument from above also applies here - yes items like hockey sticks don't break easily in the cabin, but they are still fragile. Add this to the treatment they receive going to the hold and there's the break. In any event thats aside from the main point that its up to the airline to decide if they want them onboard in the end. All the TSA has said by allowing them through the checkpoint is, "These items pose little or no threat to overall flight safety".

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 71):
And just because Europe is doing this, we don't have to play "follow the leader".........we have the perogative to be more strict than Europe on some things, if we want to.

I agree with you. However, if we want to play nice in the sandbox...
The content I post are my own thoughts, nothing more. :)
 
kalvado
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:41 pm

Quoting b6a322 (Reply 68):

But on the other hand, think of how many clear liquids look like water...I can think of Vinegar, Epinephrine, Atropine, Adenosine, Sodium Bicarbonate, Lighter fluid, toluene...the list goes on - and the resources don't exist to check every single bottle of clear liquid that goes through the checkpoint.

What exactly is going to be detected? Detection system is able to provide some idea of composition, so whatever is deemed real dangerous (oxidizers - peroxide, nitric acid, etc) gets detected.
Actually same goes for solid stuff - you do not ban every white powder, be it salt, sugar, or perchlorate - just for being white solid.
A realistic list of threats and reasonable countermeasures for those threats, which TSA hopefully compiled long ago, is what should determine what is allowed and what is not. Blanket bans are only that meaningful, and are subject to workarounds.
 
max550
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:44 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 45):
Well, you are on an airplane or inside an airport. What could you possibly need to cut so desperately? I mean if you buy something from one of those electronic stands or machines I could understand but some retailer would probably help you out.

Most likely nothing during the traveling, but it's always nice to have at the destination. I used to throw one in my checked bag until I stopped checking bags a few years ago so it'll be nice to be able to carry a pocket tool again.

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 63):
Unreal that they are allowing knives but not bottles of water

Theoretically the "water" could be an explosive that could pose a threat to bring down the flight. The knife could be used to hurt someone but wouldn't jeopardize the flight.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 69):
I don't like the idea of that. A knife can cause damage regardless of
length. Granted, we became more vigilant and made modifications
after 9/11 but nowadays people just snap and if that happened
to the wrong person with a knife you've got problems.

How often to people just snap and randomly hurt other people? Sure, it happens now and then but it's very rare and wouldn't pose any risk to the flight if it happened on an aircraft.
 
mia305
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:42 pm

It wouldn't pose no risk to the flight but a 2 inch knife can hurt and kill
someone. I mean why take the chance of that happening.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting PITingres (Reply 64):
I like to carry a pocket corkscrew in my toiletries case, and if I'm not checking a bag, I have to remember to take the darn thing out or lose it.

People do the strangest things . . . Hardly a compelling reason for allowing knives on board though.
 
kalvado
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:49 pm

Quoting mia305 (Reply 75):
It wouldn't pose no risk to the flight but a 2 inch knife can hurt and kill
someone. I mean why take the chance of that happening.

I suggest that you immediately surrender any sharp object located at your residence to police. That includes, but not limited to, kitchen knives, scissors, staples, pins, wire- and box-cutters, needles and nails since those can hurt someone. Please also surrender your driver license and destroy your vehicle since driving is known to cause personal injury and death.
Seriously, assuming safety of flight is not compromised - what is the difference between object in a cabin and same object at the theater or cinema? 2" knife is equally dangerous inside outside sterile area... Once again - this all is assuming 9/11 scenario is not possible.
 
kazim786
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:02 pm

That seems like a truly terrible decision.
 
sankaps
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 21):
If they should start allowing more things in the cabin, why not start with the more stupid bans, like toiletries. Why start from something that can actually be used as a weapon?

Is use of the "T" word in non-threatening situations still banned though?   (For example, "I am a United Super1K blogger just taking photos of the new business class seat for my blog, and not a terrorist").
 
mia305
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting kalvado (Reply 77):

Really, Really........ I'm just saying I don't like the idea. If people want to have a 2 inch pocket knife with
them just check with you bag and get it at your destination. If its attached to something
Detach it and check it. If you have carry on only don't bring it.
 
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PITingres
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:46 pm

We're obviously not all connecting on what the security check is for. I don't get why some people expect to be personally safer on the airside of a security check, as opposed to in the security line, checkin line, parking lot, etc etc.

If someone wants to be protected from a crazy randomly targeting people with a personal weapon (box cutter, whatever) I suggest that that person hire a personal bodyguard. It's not what the TSA checkpoint is for, at all.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
kalvado
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting mia305 (Reply 80):
Really, Really........ I'm just saying I don't like the idea. If people want to have a 2 inch pocket knife with
them just check with you bag and get it at your destination. If its attached to something
Detach it and check it. If you have carry on only don't bring it.

OK, so you don't have to dispose all the sharp objects - just send a check for $50 to a charity of your choice (is that what round-trip checked bag costs these days?) if you are so attached to those.
Checked luggage fees do have an effect on what people want to bring with them.
 
Maverick623
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 59):
Yes we should,but not for safety reasons but for reasons of good taste.

Exactly the reply I was gaming for  
Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 66):

I'm betting nineteen extremists took that into consideration.

And I'm willing to bet that thousands of non-extremeists stabbed someone yesterday. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to carry a knife anywhere?

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 66):
Bet they thought no one would ever fly 767's into two iconic buildings either.

Please... I was crashing planes into the Pentagon on MSFS back in 1998, at the ripe old age of 12. Oh, and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_Plot

Not to mention the numerous reports and memos the FBI completely ignored.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
manny
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:25 pm

This is the most brain dead move i have ever heard of. You allow small knives which are the like the box cutters used by those cowards.

But breast milk is still a danger!
 
Maverick623
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting manny (Reply 84):
You allow small knives which are the like the box cutters used by those cowards.

 

As was said before, their are two reasons the hijackers succeeded in getting into the cockpit, and neither of those was "box cutters": they were a) non-reinforced cockpit doors and b) passenger complacency, both of which have been fixed.

You will never see a 9/11 style-attack on American soil for the next 100 years, and you can take that to the bank.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
PC12Fan
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:04 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 83):
Bet they thought no one would ever fly 767's into two iconic buildings either.

Please... I was crashing planes into the Pentagon on MSFS back in 1998, at the ripe old age of 12. Oh, and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_Plot

Not to mention the numerous reports and memos the FBI completely ignored.

And yet it still happened, didn't it.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 83):
And I'm willing to bet that thousands of non-extremeists stabbed someone yesterday. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to carry a knife anywhere?

A passenger aircraft isn't just anywhere.

Regardless, nobody needs to make these points to make the TSA look stupid. They do just fine on their own.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:37 pm

I wonder: If 9/11 events had never occurred , and for whatever reason the FAA* told the various security companies around the nation to start banning these type of knives, folks on here and in general would be "why do this, what harm could it do?", etc. All probably screaming that it is outrageous and whatnot.
*- I say FAA since TSA would not have been formed.
I agree with above folks that state that a planeload of pax are not going to sit by as someone/people try anything these days.

Since I do not have/use pocketknives ( or golf clubs and hockey sticks), I do not care one way or the other.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:44 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 23):


There are other models, some that look like the Leatherman tools - they have longer blades. The actual current military-issue knife is this one, and should also have a longer blade than the typical red "tourist" issue:

i got that black one for my girlfriend as a gift  .
 
railker
Posts: 46
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:51 am

I agree with the people on here agreeing that the ban should be upheld. While it may be a pain for some, those arguing that you can use anything for a weapon aren't looking at practicality. You have a proper use for a pencil. What proper use would you have for a knife that can't wait until your flight lands? Or find a pair of scissors ... there's absolutely no need that I've been able to think of this entire thread.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 49):
I hate to say it... but somehow back before 9/11 I carried on a swiss army knife with a quite large blade and managed not only be let through security... but I didn't stab a single person the entire flight.

Have to admit myself that flying home last summer, had been window cleaning for a few weeks before and had a new disposable razor blade tucked into the mini-pocket of my jeans. Been through the laundry and everything. Went through security, connected to two others flights. Wasn't until I was changing at my destination that I found the blade in my pocket. Oops. I somehow managed to not to stab anyone, either.

[Edited 2013-03-06 17:51:37]
 
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PITingres
Posts: 1324
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:59 am

RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:24 am

Quoting railker (Reply 89):
What proper use would you have for a knife that can't wait until your flight lands? Or find a pair of scissors ... there's absolutely no need that I've been able to think of this entire thread.

Read the posts above. I have no use for a knife, or my corkscrew, on board -- but I don't always check a bag, and shouldn't have to (and pay another $50) just because I want to carry a corkscrew, which just happens to have a wee tiny knife on it, for use at my destination. (Or small nail scissors, or whatever.)

I will attempt again, once more, to get across the point that TSA security has nothing to do with personal, individual security or safety. Nil, nada, nichts, zip, f**k-all. Nor should it. If you can't bring the plane down with it, TSA should be ignoring it.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
Viscount724
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:34 am

A broken wine bottle can do as much or more damage than a small knife.
 
denverdanny
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:16 pm

RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:59 am

My dad is a believer in carrying knives. He has a Swiss Army knife he's used for cutting candies, picking his nails, and opening mail. I'm sure it could come in handy if stranded on an island, but the benefits seem limited on a flight. There was one time at Stapleton they wouldn't let us get on our flight because he was carrying a larger knife, maybe a 4 inch blade. His reason was because he thought he might need it to cut seatbelts if in an accident. That's what he told them at least. They kept it and let us on the flight, saying they would send it home to him.

With 9/11 and the box cutters, I don't really understand this move. A poster above does make the point about the secure cockpit doors. So, maybe it's irrelevant now. The nail clippers thing should have been lifted long ago. And another poster makes a good point about maybe not having any checked baggage to put it in. I guess the thing that bothers me is the bureaucracy, the inconsistency, and the rules often just not making sense. Can we stop frisking little children now too, or do we have to wait a few years before we get around to that?
 
OB1504
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:25 am

The former TSA chief has gone on record as saying that small knives are not enough, that axes and machetes should be okay, too:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/travel...rry-on-hawley/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

He makes a valid point, because if a terrorist armed with a blade slaughters everyone on board, he's still not going to get into the cockpit and safety will not be compromised... unless you're one of the 149 people in the back now dead.
 
EnviroTO
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:22 am

Nude scans, taking off shoes and belts, being denied access to planes for name resemblance, etc is a sensible precaution but thankfully they will be allowing knives back on the plane. So many people have been harmed by belts and shoes but when was the last time you have ever heard of a stabbing? That never happens.
 
mia305
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:26 am

RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:34 am

As I mentioned in the above post a person can snap for whatever reason
mental, personal, being drunk or having a bad day. Granted it rarely happens
but if it does...... Who's to say a person wouldn't get killed
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:43 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 86):
And yet it still happened, didn't it.

And your point is.... ???

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 86):

A passenger aircraft isn't just anywhere.

It is to me. Sure, there's no place to just pull over and run away when someone goes nuts, but then again, that worked out real well for Greyhound, didn't it?

Quoting railker (Reply 89):
those arguing that you can use anything for a weapon aren't looking at practicality.

Those arguing that a small knife is somehow more dangerous than anything else aren't looking at practicality.

Quoting railker (Reply 89):
What proper use would you have for a knife that can't wait until your flight lands?

Opening a package, cutting up some food I brought, or even maybe the airline food, maybe the knife they gave me wasn't sharp enough... wait, what??? You mean there's been knives on airplanes all these years and not a single stabbing????

 
Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 95):
So many people have been harmed by belts and shoes but when was the last time you have ever heard of a stabbing? That never happens.

If you're trying to be sarcastic, you are failing miserably. Literally, when was the last time somebody was stabbed on a plane prior to (or since) 9/11?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:37 am

Quoting railker (Reply 89):
Oops. I somehow managed to not to stab anyone, either.

I took a red army knife to JKH from ZRH (an Avro RJ85 or RJ100 flight), and they didn't object to that knife. By the way, it was also my first flight on an airliner.

No problem too on the way back. The flight was delayed for six hours, so we got bused to a restaurant to have lunch, and before the flight they dispensed with security altogether. Somehow, they had some common sense... why attack a tourist charter if there are better targets?

On a later flight (BSL - LTN), they took my knife from me, and I didn't know I still had one in the rucksack.

"Do you have a knife with you?"
- "No, I don't carry one with me."

*takes the knife out*

"And what is THIS?"

They gave me a slip of paper with which I could retrieve the knife at BSL.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 88):
i got that black one for my girlfriend as a gift .

I still fondly remember one I got as a gift... with lots and lots of tools... one to gut fish, a saw, a magnifying glass... but I haven't it anymore. I was about 10 at the time.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:49 pm

I'm surprised how fearful people are. I guess time will tell if this is a good idea or not. Having a knife, I have found, is convenient but no it is not needed. I lost mine a while ago and haven't carried one regularly in a while, and I haven't really thought "man I wish I had a knife." But when I had it, I found random uses for it all the time.

There is a ton of stuff we bring on airplanes "we don't ever need." And I don't think it's that crazy of a metaphor... I know there is a difference between a knife and a USB cord or whatever, and it is more effective of a weapon than a lot of items, but really, how many stabbings on airplanes were there prior to 9/11 with 2.36" blades? I doubt we'll see any incident with these knives, time will tell
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 2135
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: TSA To Start Allowing Small Pocket Knives Onboard

Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 97):
And yet it still happened, didn't it.

And your point is.... ???
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 97):
A passenger aircraft isn't just anywhere.

It is to me.

No comment. Check please...........
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!

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