Latam (LAN & TAM) Chooses Oneworld

tim171080 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:59 pm

just out:

Source: Oneworld Newsletter

LATAM Airlines Group chooses oneworld as its global alliance
07 March 2013
• Brazil's TAM to leave Star for oneworld in early 2014
• LAN Colombia to join oneworld too, building on LAN group's 13-year membership of alliance
• Business as usual for customers meantime, with seamless transition promised
• Latin America's top airline group strengthens oneworld's status as global first choice alliance
LATAM Airlines Group today confirmed its selection of oneworld® as the global alliance for all its passenger airlines.
The decision, announced at a meeting of the oneworld Governing Board held in Hong Kong today, means:
• Brazil's TAM Airlines will leave the Star Alliance to join oneworld, along with its Paraguay subsidiary. Their transition is expected to be completed during 2014's second quarter.
• LAN Colombia, the latest part of LAN, will join oneworld as an affiliate member, in the fourth quarter of 2013.
With Chile's LAN Airlines flying as a full member of oneworld since June 2000 and LAN Argentina, LAN Ecuador and LAN Peru added since as affiliate members, today's announcement will bring all of Latin America's top airline group into the same global airline alliance, alongside 11 of the other leading carriers from around the world and 30 of their affiliates.
An exact date for TAM's departure from the Star Alliance will be announced in due course. The intention is for it to become part of oneworld immediately after it exits Star.

thegivenone · Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:32 pm

It's official!

This is a sad day for us Star Alliancers. I really enjoyed flying on TAM, let's hope that Avianca Brazil can step up to the game.

ClassicLover · Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting tim171080 (Thread starter):
LATAM Airlines Group chooses oneworld as its global alliance

I just got the e-mail - a great win for oneworld, but not at all unexpected.

oneworld is looking good - Sri Lankan and Qatar joining, Malaysia just having joined, and US Airways too once the merger with AA is completed.

Good times indeed!

RICARIZA · Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting thegivenone (Reply 1):
let's hope that Avianca Brazil can step up to the game.

I hope so too....

commavia · Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:49 pm

Totally expected and not at all surprising.

Great news for oneworld, and solidifies the alliance's dominance of South America.

jfk777 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:57 pm

Was this ever in doubt ? LAN stayed in OW how could TAM not become part of OneWorld.

realsim · Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:03 pm

Great news for Oneworld, although not unexpected as LAN moved to T8 at JFK after the merger was announced, and a few weeks ago it was announced that TAM would also move there. Now we should expect LAN and TAM to move to Concourse E at MIA, and TAM to move to T4 at MAD.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 2):
oneworld is looking good - Sri Lankan and Qatar joining, Malaysia just having joined, and US Airways too once the merger with AA is completed

Indeed, Oneworld has managed to steal a few airlines from Star Alliance:

- BMI: bought by IAG
- TAM: merged with TAM
- US Airways: merged with AA
- Qatar Airways: everybody was quite sure that QR would join Star Alliance and not Oneworld.
- Spanair: their failure had nothing to do with oneworld, but Iberia and Vueling have bith benefit with it.

On the other hand, though, Oneworld has, unfortunately, lost Mexicana and Malev, and I think they will lose Air Berlin to Skyteam in the future.

If Oneworld could add only three more airlines to their alliance, I think they could have everything they needed: one in China, one in India and one in Africa.

JoePatroni707 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:03 pm

Great news, with this addition AA/OW wil be a true powerhouse in Latin America

iFlyLOTs · Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:35 pm

I was just looking into this yesterday and couldn't find anything, I thought the announcement was supposed to be last August... But glad to see they chose OneWorld!

AAIL86 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 6):
Indeed, Oneworld has managed to steal a few airlines from Star Alliance:

- BMI: bought by IAG
- TAM: merged with TAM
- US Airways: merged with AA
- Qatar Airways: everybody was quite sure that QR would join Star Alliance and not Oneworld.
- Spanair: their failure had nothing to do with oneworld, but Iberia and Vueling have bith benefit with it.

Lets not forget JAL - their retention could be considered a "steal" as well. It was only 24 short months ago or so that we heard lots of noise that JAL to Skyteam was a done deal and perhaps the end of oneworld was at hand ...

yellowtail · Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting thegivenone (Reply 1):
This is a sad day for us Star Alliancers. I really enjoyed flying on TAM, let's hope that Avianca Brazil can step up to the game.

I flew AV the other day and I was not impressed.

descl · Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:53 pm

So what is LH going to do with passengers that are now flying with them to Chile through Brasil?
Will they start FRA-SCL?
We need more options to Europe. Im looking for a flight to Milan in July and I cannot find for less than $2200.

IrishAyes · Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:42 pm

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though it's not all that breaking news, this is a HUGE relief to hear. OneWorld deserves this big time and I am so happy to know that everything is cemented.

LAXdude1023 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:48 pm

Todays news was brought to you by the letters D, U, and H.

Seriously though, I think most of us saw this coming. OneWorld is truly the alliance of South America.

pascal7z · Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:58 pm

Quoting Descl (Reply 11):
Will they start FRA-SCL?

I would rather bet on a connection via BOG (FRA BOG with LH, BOG SCL with AV)

A388 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting pascal7z (Reply 14):
Quoting Descl (Reply 11):
Will they start FRA-SCL?

I would rather bet on a connection via BOG (FRA BOG with LH, BOG SCL with AV)

Indeed they can. The passengers can be routed via BOG (FRA-BOG-SCL) and back. Passengers coming on LH542 to BOG can connect to the following major cities in South America (besides the extensive local flights):

EZE, SCL, GRU, GIG, LIM, MEX, UIO, GYE.

A388

UAL777UK · Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:34 pm

No suprises here but well done OW. I hope that Star have a serious back up plan of sorts as this does leave a big hole.

As stated above, it will be interesting to see how LH reacts and for that matter UA.......will they add flights??

A388 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:54 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 16):
No suprises here but well done OW. I hope that Star have a serious back up plan of sorts as this does leave a big hole.

They have a serious back up plan in AV from BOG and most likely AV Brazil in the (near) future.

A388

thegivenone · Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:07 pm

Quoting pascal7z (Reply 14):
I would rather bet on a connection via BOG (FRA BOG with LH, BOG SCL with AV)

Yup, as already confirmed by A388: LH will already sell you a ticket from FRA-BOG-SCL codesharing with AV on the last leg. From a brief look at the timetable, this route is about 3 hours longer than the current connection via GRU, however, it still gets you to SCL in the early AM (while leaving FRA in the late afternoon), which still makes it competitive.

Still a sad day though

EK413 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 6):
If Oneworld could add only three more airlines to their alliance, I think they could have everything they needed: one in China, one in India and one in Africa.

There really ain't any carrier left standing to fill mainland China... I know MU was at one stage being considered BUT Sky stole MU, CA to Star & CZ to Sky...

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 9):
Lets not forget JAL - their retention could be considered a "steal" as well. It was only 24 short months ago or so that we heard lots of noise that JAL to Skyteam was a done deal and perhaps the end of oneworld was at hand ...

1st I hear of it... Pigs will fly before it happens too...

Big congratulations to Oneworld Alliance!

EK413

[Edited 2013-03-07 10:45:11]

lightsaber · Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:13 pm

Congrats to OneWorld. LAN/TAM was a key asset to retain.

This gives OW a good presence in:
Brazil
Chile
Colombia
Ecuador
Paraguay
Peru

Plus a trivial presence in Argentina.

How are LAN/TAM's connection to Venezuela and Panama? I assume well enough to basically have the continent covered.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 19):
BUT Sky stole MU, CA to Star & CZ

That was quite the accomplishment for SkyTeam. But OW is not out. They do need India post IT... But who?

Right now, what with *A and Skyteam do in Latin America? While no surprise, this tilts the airline balance in the region clearly towards OneWorld.

Quoting Descl (Reply 11):

So what is LH going to do with passengers that are now flying with them to Chile through Brasil?
Will they start FRA-SCL?

I expect LAN to fly that route once the 787s are up in the air again.

Lightsaber

IrishAyes · Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 20):
How are LAN/TAM's connection to Venezuela and Panama? I assume well enough to basically have the continent covered.

Actually, these are weak spots in the LATAM network. Neither LAN nor TAM fly into Tocumen. Venezuela is tiny, which is to be expected simply given the nature of the fact that it is Venezuela. Overall, here's what I am seeing:

Venezuela

Lower South America
Aerolineas: 59.3%
Conviasa: 31.1%
LAN: 9.6%

North America
American: 56.4%
SBA: 18.4%
Delta: 8.1%
AVIOR: 4.4%
UniteD: 7.2%
Air Canada: 3.0%
LAN: 2.7%

AA777223 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:38 pm

I just saw this on AA's website (oddly nothing on star alliance or oneworld sites, or TAM's for that matter). I thought I had missed something. Glad to know I wasn't behind the curve, like usual.

steve6666 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
I just saw this on AA's website (oddly nothing on star alliance or oneworld sites, or TAM's for that matter). I thought I had missed something. Glad to know I wasn't behind the curve, like usual.

It is on TAM's website, I received an email about it this morning Brazil time with a link to the site. Was in Portuguese, didn't look for the English version.

http://tam.com.br/b2c/vgn/v/index.js...94bf44d310VgnVCM1000009508020aRCRD

[Edited 2013-03-07 13:28:51]

TYCOON · Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:35 pm

Not a surprise really, but I wonder what this will mean for terminals at certain airports... Will TAM leave T1 for T3 at LHR? Will they leave Star dominated CDG1 for OneWorld CDG2A? Interesting, maybe TAM (T1) can switch terminals with Air Canada (T2A) at CDG (although their respective flights are at different times of the day).

LHRFlyer · Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:54 pm

Fantastic news for Oneworld. I would not be surprised to see domestic codesharing with TAM to start in the interim.

AAIL86 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:54 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 19):
1st I hear of it... Pigs will fly before it happens too...

Here you go!

JAL Says NO To SkyTeam/Delta - Part 2 (by LipeGIG Feb 9 2010 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4706863&searchid=4712264&s=JAL+skyteam#ID4712264

RAGAZZO777 · Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 20):
I expect LAN to fly that route once the 787s are up in the air again.

Actually, it seems like LAN is dropping Frankfurt from next month.

IrishAyes · Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 27):
Actually, it seems like LAN is dropping Frankfurt from next month.

It's due to the 787 grounding, although I'm not sure why they wouldn't just deploy the A343 back on this route like before...

jumpjets · Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
It's due to the 787 grounding

I think the announcement that the FRA tag was to be dropped came when the announcement that the 787 was to be deployed to MAD, so it doesn't seem to be linked to the subsequent grounding of the 787.

One theory that I read [fairly sure it was somewhere else on a.net] was that this was to allow greater turnround time at MAD while they got used to 787 ops rather than have a much tighter turnround time at FRA.

JAL · Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:00 am

Great news for OneWorld though hardly surprising.

RAGAZZO777 · Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:34 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
although I'm not sure why they wouldn't just deploy the A343 back on this route like before...

That's the thing. To me it's pretty clear: LAN will drop FRA and will instead funnel that traffic via GRU and GIG on JJ metal.

Quoting JAL (Reply 30):
Great news for OneWorld though hardly surprising.

Ferroviarius · Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:56 am

Good evening,

would LH possibly let LH510/511, which now goes to EZE, only, and there has a long sleep from 6:50 to 16:55, go FRA-EZE-SCL-EZE-FRA?

Best,

Ferroviarius

justinlee · Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 6):
If Oneworld could add only three more airlines to their alliance, I think they could have everything they needed: one in China, one in India and one in Africa.

They really need more presence in mainland China.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 19):
There really ain't any carrier left standing to fill mainland China... I know MU was at one stage being considered BUT Sky stole MU, CA to Star & CZ to Sky...

HU really want to join Oneworld with the expansion of its international routes. They are codesharing with AA and AB currently. But CX will ban this forever...

lightsaber · Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:02 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 21):
Actually, these are weak spots in the LATAM network.

Thanks for the heads up. Very interesting. With 'room for improvement' that leaves plenty of a.net threads on South American aviation in the future.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 29):
One theory that I read [fairly sure it was somewhere else on a.net] was that this was to allow greater turnround time at MAD while they got used to 787 ops rather than have a much tighter turnround time at FRA.

That makes sense. However, I would suspect LAN to operate to FRA (again) once they have enough 787s flying.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 31):
To me it's pretty clear: LAN will drop FRA and will instead funnel that traffic via GRU and GIG on JJ metal.

Short term I agree with you. I have hopes long term.

Lightsaber

EK413 · Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:17 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 26):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 19):
1st I hear of it... Pigs will fly before it happens too...

Here you go!

JAL Says NO To SkyTeam/Delta - Part 2 (by LipeGIG Feb 9 2010 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4706863&searchid=4712264&s=JAL+skyteam#ID4712264

How about that, appears I was on the moon while this news hit the headlines

Quoting justinlee (Reply 33):
HU really want to join Oneworld with the expansion of its international routes.

Interesting news... What's even more interesting is the fact QF has jumped into bed with EK as an alliance & partnership with MU to launch JQ Hong Kong...

EK413

SCL767 · Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:32 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 20):
Plus a trivial presence in Argentina.

LATAM has a size-able presence in the Argentine international market and controls well over 20% of the Argentine domestic market.

LATAM's international operations via BUE, COR and MDZ:

ASU-EZE-GRU 2x daily (A320)
GRU-AEP 3x daily (A320)
GRU-EZE 4x daily (A320 3x daily, A332 daily)
GIG-EZE 3x daily (A320 2x daily, A332 daily)
LIM-EZE 3x daily (B763)
SCL-EZE 50x weekly (A319/A320/B763)
SCL-AEP (3x daily A319/A320)
UIO-GYE-EZE 5x weekly (A320)
EZE-MIA daily (B763)
EZE-PUJ-MIA weekly (B763)
LIM-COR daily (A319/A320)
SCL-COR 2x daily (A319/A320)
SCL-MDZ 3x daily (A319/A320)

Source: LAN.com

[Edited 2013-03-07 20:47:53]

OB1504 · Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:55 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 6):
Now we should expect LAN and TAM to move to Concourse E at MIA, and TAM to move to T4 at MAD.

Is there space for them at Concourse E? It's already pretty tight with overflow from AA at D, plus AB, BA, IB, 4O, and the Cuba charters. Not to mention that E would be a massive downgrade in facilities compared to J, and I don't know if LATAM is willing to subject their passengers to that kind of shock.

justinlee · Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:24 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 35):
Interesting news... What's even more interesting is the fact QF has jumped into bed with EK as an alliance & partnership with MU to launch JQ Hong Kong...

HU launched a plan called "Tighten relationship arrangement with Oneworld members" since 2011. But due to the competition between HX and KA, CX is not happy with all these...

offloaded · Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:48 am

Whilst it is a good day for OW, don't forget that codeshare agreements are common between airlines in rival alliances eg. Qantas/Air France and Cathay/Air NZ or airlines in alliances and airlines in no alliance eg Qantas/Emirates or Etihad/Air Berlin, so no reason why the JJ/LH codeshares have to end.

Does this mean BA, sorry I mean IAG, can get rid of IB now???

realsim · Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:41 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 39):
Does this mean BA, sorry I mean IAG, can get rid of IB now???

LAN and TAM only fly to MAD from SCL, LIM, GYE and GRU. IB also flies to EZE, MVD, GIG, CCS, BOG, PTY, SJO, GUA, SAL, HAV, SDQ, SJU and MEX in Latin America. Some of these routes are being cut because of Iberia's cost problem, but I'm sure that they will be launched again once the current situation is solved. Apart from that, LAN codeshares with IB in a lot of Spanish and European routes, so unless they want LAN to lose that feed, they will still need IB.

jumpjets · Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:43 pm

Quoting offloaded (Reply 39):
Does this mean BA, sorry I mean IAG, can get rid of IB now???

for some entertainment on that subject read the 'BA/Iberia marriage made in hell' thread.

cpqi · Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:45 pm

Bit late in the day for my comments on this so forgive me. I am a regular flyer on TAM living in Brazil and was a little sad to see this for the simple reason that from Fortaleza (where I live) to Europe its TAP who are Star Alliance. My Europe flights and LATAM/EUA flights will now be with different programs. That said their email states that there will be no loss of category so the network is wider.One interesting point is that I flew a few weeks back from JFK to GRU on TAM business and the lounge they used was Virgin Atlantic. I had wondered if this meant anything, but I guess not !

mvecchi4 · Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:30 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 21):

Actually, these are weak spots in the LATAM network. Neither LAN nor TAM fly into Tocumen. Venezuela is tiny, which is to be expected simply given the nature of the fact that it is Venezuela. Overall, here's what I am seeing

Hello IrishAyes,

Not sure what you mean right there when PTY's traffic is around 6million and CCS's is around 10million.

Don't mean to be rude but IMHO I don't think Caracas qualifies as ¨tiny¨ being the 8th(ish) busiest airport in South America.

OneWorld is very strong in CCS with AA and LA having heavy presence in the market (int'l), also IB is doing pretty good as far as I know. *A presence is heralded by AV, TA and CM with a pinch of LH.

JJ has a single redeye to GRU I believe.

Regards,

Miguel.

MAH4546 · Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:36 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
Is there space for them at Concourse E? It's already pretty tight with overflow from AA at D, plus AB, BA, IB, 4O, and the Cuba charters. Not to mention that E would be a massive downgrade in facilities compared to J, and I don't know if LATAM is willing to subject their passengers to that kind of shock.

LAN/TAM have already filed construction permits to build a lounge. I believe they will be taking over/extensively rennovating the old Admiral's Club/current OW Lounge.

[Edited 2013-03-11 17:37:30]

SCL767 · Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:47 am

Quoting mvecchi4 (Reply 43):
JJ has a single redeye to GRU I believe.

Effective 07APR13, TAM will increase capacity on the GRU-CCS route by deploying the A332 on the route daily.

LAN Airlines operates SCL-GYE-CCS-MIA weekly and SCL-CCS-MIA weekly; both services operate with the B763. LAN Perú operates LIM-CCS daily with the B763.

ETinCaribe · Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:30 am

I fell off my chair on hearing this news..

Quoting Descl (Reply 11):
We need more options to Europe. Im looking for a flight to Milan in July and I cannot find for less than $2200.

I think someone at LATAM knows you (and the region in general) have limited options and they are smiling all the way to the bank. Good for LATAM not so good for consumers.

SCL767 · Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:17 am

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 46):
I think someone at LATAM knows you (and the region in general) have limited options

The region in general now has more international flights to Europe and North America compared to a few years ago; especially from Brazil.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 46):
Good for LATAM not so good for consumers.

It is very positive for consumers that LAN combined with TAM to create LATAM Airlines. Both carriers have highly complementary networks that offer consumers more choices and flexibility to travel within South America, as well as long-haul destinations, (LAN and TAM only overlap on four regional routes within South America). As one airline group, both carriers will be able to open new routes that neither one could have opened before as a stand alone carrier. LATAM will also be able to compete effectively with other major international carriers that fly to South America.

aerorobnz · Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
It's due to the 787 grounding, although I'm not sure why they wouldn't just deploy the A343 back on this route like before...

because they retired a 343, and SCL-AKL-SYD physically requires the 340 to operate....

No great loss, I think that AV/TA is going to be just as big as LA/JJ very soon. They are expanding greatly.

SCL767 · Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:02 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 48):
No great loss, I think that AV/TA is going to be just as big as LA/JJ very soon. They are expanding greatly.

LATAM's affiliates are also growing in different markets. LAN Colombia continues to increase its domestic market-share in Colombia and will soon increase capacity on routes to MIA and GRU via BOG. The carrier plans to open new routes to CCS, JFK, LAX, and MAD via BOG in the near-term. LAN Perú will soon increase frequencies and capacity on various regional and domestic routes via LIM. This week, LAN Ecuador will significantly increase frequencies on domestic routes within Ecuador, will launch a new domestic route tomorrow, and will offer more capacity on the four busiest domestic routes in Ecuador compared to AV's subsidiary 2K, (LAN will actually surpass 2K on the GYE-GPS route!). AV Brasil is taking on LAN's few remaining A-318s while LAN deploys A-320s, (and soon A-321s) on domestic and regional routes via SCL. TAM Airlines plans to increase capacity on various routes as well; having just converted some of the A-319s and A-320s on order for 23 A-321s. Not to mention that LATAM Airlines S.A. has over 64 wide-body a/c on order...

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