Stratofish
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IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:58 pm

IAG the parent company of BA and IB has agreed to a mediation proposal which reduces the number of announced layoffs at IB albeit only a tiny bit.
Instead of the announced cut of 3800 now "only" 3141 (strange number) shall be cut along with a pay reduction of 7% for ground staff and 14% for cabin and flight deck crews. Payings are not to be renegotiated until 2015.

The unions involved are still debating whether or not to accept the mediation.

Personally I think 3141 is still to high a number of job cuts. Had the negotiator been able to bring that down to more or less about 2000 it would have been a done deal, methinks.

So it's going to be interesting, at least they now have something to work on.

http://economia.elpais.com/economia/.../actualidad/1362943857_254676.html
(Spanish only)

[Edited 2013-03-10 17:05:55]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/10/uk-iag-idUKBRE9290GA20130310


[Edited 2013-03-10 17:48:22]
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AIR MALTA
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:44 am

Quoting Stratofish (Thread starter):
Personally I think 3141 is still to high a number of job cuts. Had the negotiator been able to bring that down to more or less about 2000 it would have been a done deal, methinks.

If IAG Think that in order to get IB back into Black requires reducing the workforce by 3700, why would they settle for 2000. If they reduce the fleet but have an excess of cabin personnel, that would make them even more unefficient...
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seahawk
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:51 am

Considering the state of Iberia, any compromise is not going to be good. They should not ask how many jobs need to be cut, they should ask how many jobs can be cut, so that Iberia makes a solid profit again and iAG can pay healthy dividends on their shares. If they can only cut 3700 jobs ok, if they can cut more, they need to do that.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 1):
If IAG Think that in order to get IB back into Black requires reducing the workforce by 3700, why would they settle for 2000. If they reduce the fleet but have an excess of cabin personnel, that would make them even more unefficient...

Not necessarily as simple as that. When you enter into union negotiations there is usually a bit of horse trading before the final agreement is made, and because of this it is quire normal to set out a higher figure than you actually need to achieve in the initial stages. Then after all the trading is done and a compromise is done the workers feel relieved that the initial cuts are watered down. This is a very common tactic.
Only IAG really know what the real figure they need is.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:23 am

I think the key difference is the terms for those taking redundancy. I think the mediator's proposal was that those leaving would receive more generous pay offs under old Spanish law, whereas IAG was proposing much less generous pay offs under new (and untested) Spanish law.

If the mediator's proposals are accepted it's still a very substantial restructuring and IAG will have most of what it wanted.

If the unions don't accept the arbitrator's proposals then politically it's easier for IAG to go ahead with a unilateral restructuring as it could say it entered into arbitration in good faith.

[Edited 2013-03-11 03:30:40]
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:21 pm

The unions meet with the company and the mediator to discuss the proposals:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...posal-in-iberia-labor-dispute.html
 
Stratofish
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:12 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 4):
If the unions don't accept the arbitrator's proposals then politically it's easier for IAG to go ahead with a unilateral restructuring as it could say it entered into arbitration in good faith.

  

Still I wonder how (and who) they came up with those 3141? As if that one mattered...

Seems as if ground and cabin crew unions agreed to the mediation. Now only sepla is still out to decide:
http://www.expansion.com/2013/03/10/...mpresas/transporte/1362943000.html
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r2rho
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:39 pm

Recopied my post from the "Marriage made in hell" thread that had hopelessly veered off topic:

The majority unions have agreed "in principle" but will announce their final decision wednesday. No commitment from the Sepla pilot's union yet (but they always tend go their own way).

3,141 employees fired (versus 3,807 proposed by IAG), of which 2,256 ground staff, 627 cabin crew and 258 pilots, in the period 2013-15. Those who remain will have to accept a salary reduction of 14% (flight&cabin crew) or 7% (ground staff). No profit sharing and freezing of other benefits. One more month to negotiate productivity improvements (basically more flight hours), if no agreement reached then a further 4% salary reduction will occur. Cancellation of all remaining strikes. Maintenance and handling services can remain "if a competitive cost base is achieved".

More links in Spanish:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/03/06/economia/1362588086.html
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/03/10/economia/1362942660.html
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/03/11/economia/1362988448.html

Quoting Stratofish (Thread starter):
3141 (strange number)

It's pi times 1000    Seriously though, it's probably the result of applying some percentage calculation to a round number.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 4):
I think the key difference is the terms for those taking redundancy. I think the mediator's proposal was that those leaving would receive more generous pay offs under old Spanish law, whereas IAG was proposing much less generous pay offs under new (and untested) Spanish law.

If so, that is a fundamental difference for the employees. While the total proposed job cuts are not much lower than in IAG's plan, the payoffs applying the old labor law are much more generous than with the new one.
 
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Aesma
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 2):
Considering the state of Iberia, any compromise is not going to be good. They should not ask how many jobs need to be cut, they should ask how many jobs can be cut, so that Iberia makes a solid profit again and iAG can pay healthy dividends on their shares. If they can only cut 3700 jobs ok, if they can cut more, they need to do that.

Talk about healthy dividends to IB employees in a wrecked Spanish economy and watch IB planes burning on MAD's tarmac...

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 4):
much less generous pay offs under new (and untested) Spanish law.

BTW, such a law should only apply to new hires, I don't understand what the Spanish government was thinking if it applies to all employees, it's an incentive to lay-off people and doesn't help new hires more than a law only applying to new contracts !
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bennett123
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:33 pm

Regrettably, IB needs people to invest money in it. These people will want IB to generate profits and then dividends.

Destroying company property will just lead to the jobless queue for everyone.

I recall that when Olympic failed that someone apparently destroyed the maintenance records for 4 A340. The result that the planes will go for scrap. Pity, given that otherwise, the country would have benefited from the sale or parts value of those aircraft.

A grand gesture, but rather dumb.
 
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seahawk
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:18 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
Talk about healthy dividends to IB employees in a wrecked Spanish economy and watch IB planes burning on MAD's tarmac...

Then this would be the end of Iberia, still better for IAG than years without any profit.

The problem is, that if the customer service does not improve, if the cuts are not enough, we will see another round of cuts, another round of strikes and more damage to the brand. This often leads to a slow death, while one hard re-structuring has shown that it can revitalize a brand.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:09 pm

http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zht...=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=1795239

Quote:
International Airlines Group notes, further to its acceptance of the mediator's proposal regarding Iberia, that unions representing the majority of Iberia's employees have also agreed to accept the proposal.

Reading between the lines, does this mean that acceptance from SEPLA is still awaited?
 
MIflyer12
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:41 pm

The AP reports that unions have cancelled next week's planned strikes.

Unions representing most workers at Spanish airline Iberia have cancelled strikes planned for next week to protest staff layoffs.

The cancellation Wednesday comes after the unions accepted a mediator's proposal that reduces the number of planned layoffs by 666 to 3,141, or some 15 percent of Iberia's workforce.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 12):
planned layoffs by 666 to 3,141, or some 15 percent of Iberia's workforce.

Somebody posted earlier that 2,256 of these would be ground staff. Is the 15% across the board in all functions or is the biggest percentage hit in ground handling? As handling is not a core function of the airline itself and can easily be outsourced then the Airline might not shrink by 15% then.
 
dcajet
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:14 pm

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13):
Somebody posted earlier that 2,256 of these would be ground staff. Is the 15% across the board in all functions or is the biggest percentage hit in ground handling? As handling is not a core function of the airline itself and can easily be outsourced then the Airline might not shrink by 15% then.

According to the mediator's proposal and agreed upon by IAG and all unions sans SEPLA, there will be 3141 staff let go through 2015 - 80% will of those will be effective this year.

Of the 3141 redundancies, 2256 are ground staff, 627 cabin staff and the remainder 258 are pilots.

For those remaining on the payroll, the reduction in salaries will be of 7% for ground staff and 14% for flight personnel - pilots and cabin and no promotions, changes in seniority and raises until 2015. I think it will be safe to assume that there will be no new hires for a few years in Iberia. Any new collective bargaining is frozen until 2016.

Within the next 30 days each union must agree with IAG productivity improvements within their sectors. If no agreement is reached, a further 4 points will be added to the already agreed upon reduction in salaries.

Unions agree to no new industrial action for the next 180 days; the wild card being SEPLA.

Further reductions are being targeted via early retirement packages with, roughly, a month's pay per year of service with a cap at 30 years.

Lets hope that these measures, as regrettable as they are, set the stage for a healthy Iberia for years to come.
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SKY1
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:06 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 10):
Then this would be the end of Iberia, still better for IAG than years without any profit

Why then does BA always was more interested than IB for getting merger? If IB is so poorly performing ...why so many interest by getting a merger?

Quoting seahawk (Reply 10):
The problem is, that if the customer service does not improve,

...and mysteriously enough   IB still full their planes

Quoting seahawk (Reply 10):
if the cuts are not enough

..if the cuts are not enought, cuts, cuts and more cuts .... that's german's leading mantra, right? there is not other solution but cutting so many times as necessary! Well, I hope not but we'll see if the € currency is going to be alive on the next 10 years.
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seahawk
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:48 am

I would rather make one large cut, to get the company back into the black asap, rather than doing many smaller cuts and probably never hitting profitability in the process. Especially consideirng how bleak the sitation for iberia is.
 
1400mph
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:45 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 15):
Why then does BA always was more interested than IB for getting merger? If IB is so poorly performing ...why so many interest by getting a merger?

Because they see the potential for IB.

I think IB will be just fine but change was needed am very relieved (for all concerned) that some progress has been made lately.

(Very impressed with your English btw.....I would never be able to participate in a Spanish speaking discussion.)
 
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Revelation
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RE: IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending

Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:25 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 12):
after the unions accepted a mediator's proposal that reduces the number of planned layoffs by 666[/quote]

666: the mark of the devil!   

[quote=SKY1,reply=15]Why then does BA always was more interested than IB for getting merger? If IB is so poorly performing ...why so many interest by getting a merger?

I doubt that the purpose was to employ as many workers as possible. I think the purpose was to make as much money as possible.
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