flaps30
Topic Author
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 12:33 am

How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:26 am

You dont seem to hear much about Sun Country on a daily basis so I was wondering if anyone knows how they are doing financially. Are they strong financially? I have flown them a few times and I have grown to like this airline. They seem to be almost a forgotten airline but they just go about their business everyday. Does Delta see them as a threat in MSP or do they cater to a different crowd? I hope they stick around.
every day is a good day to fly
 
coreyrust
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:32 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:19 am

I was wondering the same thing the other day in fact.... I was looking at their fares though, and for a LCC, they seem to be pretty high? Do they consider themselves as an LCC?

Anybody with any insight would be fantastic. I remember them when they briefly flew to Portland with scheduled flights to Laughlin, NV for a short time. One of the best paint schemes in my opinion.
 
sunking737
Posts: 1492
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:03 pm

Sun Country has been making money the last few years. They are privately owned by the Cambria Corp. in MN, so they do not report earnings like the publicly owned companies. SY has had a few ups and downs like everyone else. Their CEO was just replaced by the BOD, the interim CEO is their current CFO.

They have added or adding 3 more 737's to their fleet. N818SY a -800 was added in Jan. '13, N714SY -700 was added Mar. 7th. Its their 5th -700. N715SY is in SJO being repainted. These 2 new -700 came from Aeromexico via ILFC. A/C N806SY is leaving their fleet in April after 10 years of service. I have heard a rumor of SY getting a 7th -700 sometime soon, no date given. They also have 2 Transavia 737-800's returning to that carrier next month as they are winter leases.

I hope this helps.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
[email protected]
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RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:08 pm

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 2):

Sun Country has been making money the last few years.

Indeed, albeit very fluctuating which isn't surprising for an airline:

2011: operating result $2m, operating margin 0.8%, profit per passenger $1.29
2010: $14m, 6.1%, $11.33
2009: $6m, 2.7%, $4.82

Between 2004 and 2008 it lost an total of $70m, or an average of $14m per year with the worst yet 2007 with a loss of $33m and the 'least worst' 2004 with $1m, on an operating basis.

Source: Flightglobal Pro.

[Edited 2013-03-13 05:11:43]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:24 pm

In KLAN, they seem to be doing well. They are still year around to DCA and MSP, with seasonal service to mco, las, cun, punta Cana and pvr. The airport is going to, if they already haven't, ask them to start the seasonal service sooner and end later. I wouldn't be all that shocked if they make mco year around. Although it would be nice if they moved their mco service to either tpa or rsw to not compete directly with g4.

They have gotten high marks from pax in Lansing as well as the airport. Hopefully they can expand a bit and be there for a long time
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:48 pm

Sun Country has been very conservative and doing a good job of staying under the radar of the big boys. They seems to be growing slow and steady and not doing anything to gain the attention or piss off any of the big boys. This strategy should work for them if they stay true to the course.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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ramprat74
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RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:02 pm

The last time we worked their charter flight here in PDX. While I was pushing them out. I asked the Captain if they were growing. He said they just leased out the old Mesaba hangar at MSP. Can that hangar even fit a 737 NG? Is Sun Country using the old Champion hangar also?
 
sunking737
Posts: 1492
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:22 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 6):
The last time we worked their charter flight here in PDX. While I was pushing them out. I asked the Captain if they were growing. He said they just leased out the old Mesaba hangar at MSP. Can that hangar even fit a 737 NG? Is Sun Country using the old Champion hangar also?

The old Champion hanger is being used by SY again. They had it in the past when their hanger was located just over by NWA/DAL building "C" or C World as it was know. SY returned it to MAC when they filed bankruptcy, Dec. 2001. Who in turn moved over to Longfellow Ave when MAC built their new runway. Yes SY has use of the old Mesaba hanger. They have or in the middle of moving their Flight Operations Department their from the HQ/GO in Mendota Heights. These would include Pilots, Flight Attendants, and Dispatchers.

So that little corner of MSP is now all SY.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
gilesdavies
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:31 pm

Does Sun Country still operate their weekly flights to London during the summer months?
 
sunking737
Posts: 1492
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:56 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Does Sun Country still operate their weekly flights to London during the summer months?

Not any more. It was done mostly to get ETOPS cert. for DOD charter flights.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
flaps30
Topic Author
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 12:33 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Does Sun Country still operate their weekly flights to London during the summer months?

I dont think they do. I actually took that flight from LGW to MSP back in July 2011. It was an interesting flight with the tech stop in Gander. The price was great and the service was good. I thought they did well with that route but maybe I am wrong since they may have discontinued it.
every day is a good day to fly
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4282
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:59 pm

This is one airline that keeps a low profile. I too think they have one of the most attractive paint jobs! The airline is conservative, and run very smart. I love Sun Country. I do miss the DC-10s and 727 days though!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
wingnutmn
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:27 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:09 pm

Pan Am training center in Eagan MN is in the process of puting a 737 sim in their final sim bay and it sounds like it is going to be almost exclusively for SY. Either they are planning growth or got a really good deal on a sim because a pilot group of that size doesn't need its own sim.

Wingnut
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
MountainFlyer
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:19 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Being a privately held company makes financial info less available, and I know pax. numbers don't always equal good financials, but their pax numbers at MSP have been growing in the double digit percentages for a couple of years now. They have almost caught up with WN at MSP for second most pax carried after DL (including DL Connection).

I've flown on them several times in the last couple of years and have always enjoyed it.
SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 9):
Not any more. It was done mostly to get ETOPS cert. for DOD charter flights.

Yup...they were my chariot to the sandbox from Oklahoma two years ago...3 stops enroute to our final destination...took over 24 hours to get there.
 
toering
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:42 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:11 pm

Here is an article from the Star Tribune that some might find interesting regarding Sun Country and the recent change of CEOs.
http://www.startribune.com/business/194087231.html
 
erzr2
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:57 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:49 pm

I've flown them a bit recently (DCA flights) and I suspect that they are doing fairly well, around the Winter holidays I'd estimate the load factor to be around 95%, and the rest of the year they seem to rest about 85%, but always 100% in J in my experience. (I believe they market it as an F class, but it is really to me quite comparable to Delta J). As to if they are going LCC, I'd guess they are going that direction- a couple years ago they served sausage sandwiches on the flights to DCA at least- I don't recall if they did for the outbounds too. Now, they serve a normal drink service with small snacks. But, I believe the biggest indication is that they recently-ish (I hadn't flown them in a year prior to December), added a fee to select seats (any seats). This maybe mostly just to compete with the legacies and their fees though. With regards to fares- I find if you book at least 2-3 months in advances the fares are usually quite reasonable, especially the F/J cabin, which is often less than 175% of the Y fare. I'm surprised that they haven't added a Y+ though, it would seem to fit their product.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:55 pm

I remember in the early to mid 90s seeing SY DC10s departing ANC. How things have changed........ I think they're small enough to not draw the ire of DL at MSP.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Type-Rated
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 5:18 am

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:33 pm

Thank goodness that 727's & DC-10's are gone at SY. They had a relatively low dispatch rate because of mechanical problems with those aircraft. We flew them IAH-LAS 3 years in a row to the CES show in Las Vegas. And 3 years in a row the aircraft broke down resulting in long, long delays. The last time that happened it was a 10 hour delay due to mechanical issues and they replaced the aircraft with a USAir aircraft & crew. But we didn't mind that much. We just rented a car and went skiing at Mt. Charleston the rest of the day. Plus those older aircraft weren't as economical to fly as the new er 737's they have now are.

The F/A's have always been attentive, friendly and cheerful on SY. And I like that.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1666
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:51 pm

I have heard they plan to double their fleet in the next few years, which will include some new build 737NG this year (lease) beyond the 2nd hand Aero Mexico and Ethiopian 737s.

Cheers

[Edited 2013-03-14 16:14:32]
 
sunking737
Posts: 1492
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:08 pm

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 19):
I have heard they plan to double their fleet in the next few years, witch will include some new build 737NG this year (lease) beyond the 2nd hand Aero Mexico and Ethiopian 737s.

I can confirm that they had planned on doubling their fleet, but now that they have removed their CEO, that may be on hold or slowed down until a new CEO is found.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
N908AW
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:05 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:06 am

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 20):
I can confirm that they had planned on doubling their fleet, but now that they have removed their CEO, that may be on hold or slowed down until a new CEO is found.

My suspicion with this regime change - which the above article only adds fuel to - is that Gadek consistently hesitated when it came to growth. Now that the market is a little more predictable and a little more stable (not to say that the airline industry is too much of either of those things), I think Davis sees an opportunity for growth, especially now that it's becoming more apparent that Southwest is not decimating Sun Country's success like everybody thought would happen.

Gadek is a brilliant financial mind and he is the primary reason Sun Country is still here, but he is no gambler. He's overseen (allegedly) impressive profits in 2011 and 2012. Increasing frequencies and looking for more ways to siphon customers away from the major carriers is the logical next step, and I think that Davis is looking for somebody willing to undergo big changes.

However, I think SY's opportunities out of MSP are limited beyond adding frequencies to what they already have. ORD and to a lesser extent DEN are not going to yield much of anything. Any additional Florida or Mexico market is going to be a niche market. Could they make things like MSY, IAH, MYR, PHL, PDX, ASE, EGE, HDN work? Could they do a one-stop to HNL and make it work? Maybe. Big maybe. However, I see opportunities elsewhere. LAN, for as strange of a market as it is, seems to be doing well. Could they duplicate that success at other somewhat-deflated or de-hubbed Midwest markets? IND? MKE? MCI? STL?
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
SYfan100
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:11 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:02 pm

When flying Sun Country the flights I have been on seemed to have always been just about full. And even some other various flights at other gates it looks like they have been just about full as well.
17 Aircraft are in their current fleet up until as someone mentioned that they will be adding more with one plane leaving most likely because of a lease issue? I don't see 10 years of age being a factor with getting rid of it.
Friendly service in which they do their best to be on time besides still do have a Ufly program. You get points for every $ you spend on a ticket which at somepoint in time you can fly first class for just about free.
Fort Myers is back to being year round service once again after being seasonal for several years. Then all of the major cities like Boston you can fly year round.
Cancun is the only city in Mexico that is year round with everyone else being seasonal still.
Wonder if they might in the future do a seasonal flight from MSP to Sarasota? Or Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach? Grand Cayman?
Would fly them anyday over Southwest or any other Airline for that matter because I like how they operate. Very good with getting those planes in and out of Terminal #2 at MSP.
 
sunking737
Posts: 1492
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:37 pm

As far as fleet plans and goals, when their planes get to a certain age, they (SY) will return to leasing company.
806SY is line number 75, an early model -800, delivered to SY 2-2003, after time with North American.
The next oldest plane is 712SY line number 183. 712SY has only been with them since 4-2010. 712SY was in South America for 10 years.
Most A/C returned so far have so because SY was returning due to high lease costs, not MX issues.
SY returned their last 727 in Oct. 2002. at that time they became an all 737 fleet.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
SYfan100
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:11 pm

RE: How Is Sun Country Doing Financially?

Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:19 am

Sometimes the head just will spin because of how some of these planes have been all over the place. 5 to 10 years down in South America or over in Europe. And just even some planes just staying put flying all over the United States doing the various respective scheduled and charter flights.
Every Airline of course is different with their seating setup in which I found the Boeing 737-800 I flew on out of MSP for a trip was more comfortable then the Boeing 737-700, that was my plane ride back home.
Seat on the 737-800 was more comfortable then the 737-700 seat I had. Different type of seat I am guessing?
Which talk about a rude wakeup call when exciting the plane and it's cold! After being in 70 to 80 degree weather it is kind of hard to return back to regular life once again.  
Enjoy the rest of March as it's suppose to be a cold one in Minnesota as I herd yesterday when taking a break from clearing snow with a Snowblower.
Maybe SY might be nice enough to extend their seasonal service a little bit more to some of the warmer destinations if it remains cold into April. First day of spring is suppose to have a windchill!

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