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gators312
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Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:01 pm

Anyone have any info on what airlines / equipment will be used to get passengers back to Port Canaveral?

I assume to MCO and FLL on scheduled and charter flights?


"Carnival Cruise Lines is working to fly all passengers on one of its cruises back to Florida after the ship suffered a generator failure while docked at Philipsburg, St. Maarten, in the eastern Caribbean."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/14/travel...-ship-trouble/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Edited 2013-03-14 09:02:49]

[Edited 2013-03-14 09:03:31]
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting gators312 (Thread starter):
I assume to MCO and FLL on scheduled and charter flights?

MLB, and MCO are the closest.

Quoting gators312 (Thread starter):
"Carnival Cruise Lines is working to fly all passengers on one of its cruises back to Florida after the ship suffered a generator failure while docked at Philipsburg, St. Maarten, in the eastern Caribbean."

Wow, bad winter for Carnival.......
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bluejuice
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:34 pm

I recall Carnival chartered planes from DL last time. Perhaps they will do the same. No matter who they use, SXM is going to be a busy place for plane spotters.
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luv2fly
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:08 pm

Last time they had more lead time, remember it took several days to haul the ship in. This should be an interesting mix that they get together last minute.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
N747PE
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:28 pm

Didn't you hear the lastest? Carnival is going to have the passengers swim to SJU and whoever survives the swim will be put on a charter to MCO   Need less planes that way
 
PI4EVER
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:09 pm

The ship sailed from Port Canaveral east of Orlando so likely the charters are just to MCO. It will make reaccomodation easier for fly in guests and others have cars parked at the pier in PCN or were using bus connections/transfers to nearby FL cities.
A neighbor who is aboard the ship just texted me (I'm dog sitting) that "we're flying Delta and will be home tonight." If they are on a charter to MCO, they'll need to get to PCN to get their car and then drive about 3 hours to get home.
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
Mainland
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:23 pm

This is the first, but probably not the last...

A Delta 767-300 charter flight just popped up on Flightaware bound for SXM:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL8857
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threeifbyair
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:55 pm

MCO will be the airport for charters:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...er-ship-generator-malfunction.html

How many extra aircraft can SXM accomodate at once? Carnival will need a lot of planes.

Also, getting back to MCO soon is not super-helpful when you don't have return flight reservations for a few days. CCL should be getting hotels for these people in MCO or helping them change their tickets.
 
tonytifao
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:32 pm

It would be more enjoyable to stay in St Marteen  
 
727LOVER
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:37 pm

Stuck in St. Maarten......oooooohhhhhhhhh......those poor folks!  
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ikramerica
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 1):
Wow, bad winter for Carnival.......

Being stranded in St. Maarten is not the end of the world. In fact, sounds kind of nice.

Can't say the same for being adrift in the Gulf of Mexico.

Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 5):
You get what you pay for... when you search for cruises, Carnival always comes up with the lowest price. There is a reason for that. But that is a discussion for another forum...

True on their older ships. But good for families and young people.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 8):
Also, getting back to MCO soon is not super-helpful when you don't have return flight reservations for a few days. CCL should be getting hotels for these people in MCO or helping them change their tickets.

I would bet that anyone who booked cruise+air with carnival will be sent to whence they came. Those who didn't, well, that's why you ALWAYS buy cruise insurance. It's not that expensive, and this stuff does happen.
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twal1011727
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 1):
MLB, and MCO are the closest.

If they have to clear customs, then it go to MCO not MLB.

KD
 
ltbewr
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:09 am

What about the crew - are they just stuck on the ship or are they being taken to MCO also?
I assume all on a cruise from the USA today, one has to have a Passport or the regional Passcard, if one doesn't how do they get them from the ship to the airport unless there is a special security arrangement made?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:46 am

Kudos to DL for the save. Out of curiosity, does DL have extra planes sitting around at ATL or hubs or will the planes be running 24/7 with different crews??

KH
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:49 am

Please DL is getting paid.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:53 am

Is it me or am I the only one wondering why DL got the gig and not the charter airlines like Omni, Miami Air, or even UA that has a 744 for charter use???

KH
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:59 am

So far we know of one DL flight, no telling who also might be flying.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:01 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 16):
Is it me or am I the only one wondering why DL got the gig and not the charter airlines like Omni, Miami Air, or even UA that has a 744 for charter use???

KH

It's just you.

How many people are on that boat? 3-5000?

Shall we ask to see the bid that DL put forth? Does DL have an agreement with Carnival (since they used DL the last time too)? Could Miami or Omni even move that amount of people in a short time without using every bit of their fleet around the clock?
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MCOflyer
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:15 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 18):

It's just you.

How many people are on that boat? 3-5000?

Shall we ask to see the bid that DL put forth? Does DL have an agreement with Carnival (since they used DL the last time too)? Could Miami or Omni even move that amount of people in a short time without using every bit of their fleet around the clock?

I have a feeling being thats its last minute, it would all depend on which carriers have the most spare capacity sitting idle along with crews. DL seems to be there at the right time when they are called. Based on last time, I suspect we'll see at least 15-20 767 flights. If DL does have an idle 744, I suspect the number of flights would be lower, but my guess is we'll see mostly 767 and 757 flights with a few 738's being thrown into the mix.

KH

[Edited 2013-03-14 18:16:06]
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727LOVER
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:22 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 19):

AFAIK, DL has a 744 that sits in ATL for 22 hrs everyday
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:38 am

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 1):
MLB, and MCO are the closest.

And DAB. They are able to clear customs in DAB through the international terminal which is equipped with a jetway. MLB has a jetway equipped at their international gate as well. Technically it is possible to accommodate them via MCO, MLB, and DAB. They could also use SFB if necessary.
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silentbob
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:45 am

I'm surprised to only see one so far
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:54 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 20):

AFAIK, DL has a 744 that sits in ATL for 22 hrs everyday

Looking at stats on GCM, DL could send that a/c down there with enough fuel to go from ATL-SXM-MCO which is 3059 miles per GCM/. However, I do not think DL will do this. I think the biggest a/c we see will be an A330 as they used them on the previous charter. If they do use the 744, it would be awesome an a rare sight at both SXM and MCO.

KH
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
dairbus
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:08 am

Can't say with 100% certainty but expect to see 320/737/757/767/330 equipment operating the charters SXM-MCO over the next three days.

Looks like no 744 for now.

[Edited 2013-03-14 21:16:51]
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Wingtips56
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:30 am

It looks like DL got the call....one on the ground in SXM and 3 more appeared for morning ops into SXM in FlightAware, at this hour (0330 EDT).

As to the question of the ship's crew... I imagine they'll stay on-board and have plenty of busy-work. Maybe carpet cleaning, etc. The ship will probably move on for repair somewhere... the articles I read said Carnival didn't want to take out a revenue cruise with the generator out of service. Like a non-rev airliner ferry flight that can fly but not with passengers.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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bhmdiversion
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:57 am

DL8860 just left ATL for SXM - ETA 09:05.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:26 pm

Looks like an A332, 764, 763 and 752 are enroute from ATL at the moment.

KH
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
harleydriver
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:06 pm

www.flightradar24.com is showing a small stream of DL extra sections heading to SXM at this time.
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Mainland
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:19 pm

Add an A333 from ATL and B738 from MSP to the list.

That should bring the seat capacity out of SXM to around 1,900 -- almost half way to the reported 4,300 passengers on the ship.
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DeltaRules
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:37 pm

There's also a DL 763 on the way which is, for some reason, on its way from BQN (Aguadilla, PR).
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luv2fly
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:40 pm

I would bet that a few more flights will be added once the International flights arrive and if the schedule allows a quick turn and back to SXM! I mean how long do some of those planes sit in ATL between flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
maddogjt8d
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:44 pm

Found a few of the heavies doing the charters:

B767-400: N837MH
A330-200: N857NW

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 30):
There's also a DL 763 on the way which is, for some reason, on its way from BQN (Aguadilla, PR).

That's N174DZ, looks like it could have been a military charter as it did ATL-BIF-BQN.
 
FlyBoy747
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:19 pm

How do they determine who gets what class? Do they put those who paid for an expensive suite in J then those who have a cheap inside room in Y? Or do they say you all get on this plane and the seating is handled by DL?

As for the crew, does DL send out a mass call for a crew on short notice and whoever can pick it up gets it?
MSP is my home...no matter where I fly!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:28 pm

Quoting FlyBoy747 (Reply 33):
As for the crew, does DL send out a mass call for a crew on short notice and whoever can pick it up gets it?

Most likely filled up with those sitting reserve.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
canemedicrn
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:33 pm

 
roseflyer
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting dairbus (Reply 24):
Can't say with 100% certainty but expect to see 320/737/757/767/330 equipment operating the charters SXM-MCO over the next three days.

How many DL A320s and 737s are overwater equipped? I don't believe many of them are ETOPS, but you don't need ETOPS to get to SXM, just the rafts, life vests, etc.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 27):

Looks like an A332, 764, 763 and 752 are enroute from ATL at the moment.

Its DL heaven on the beach at SXM!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SELMER40
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:07 pm

LiveATC.net has good audio from TNCM...........
Teaching this old dog a new trick
 
vfw614
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:11 pm

Don't think that SXM has the capacity to handle a lot of additional heavies at the same time, so it really must be staggered to some extent. Apron space is rather tight, IIRC, although I think the terminal has some spare capacity.
 
PI4EVER
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:17 pm

Carnival operational woes continue. Carnival Legend has canceled a port call in Grand Cayman and is "limping" under limited power back to Tampa. Carnival has reported the ship is under its own power but will likely arrive TPA on Sunday later than scheduled which may "affect our guests onward travel plans."
Good Luck making changes for Sunday into Monday due to limited availability outbound due to Spring Break travel. An estimated 1000 people on board the Legend are flying out of TPA so a bunch of change fees that hopefully will be reimbursed by Carnival and/or its insurer. Guests at this point are only receiving a $100 voucher for on board expenses and a coupon for a 50% discount on a future Carnival cruise. Guests not purchasing the cruise insurance may well have to absorb the additional fees and fares the airline may charge and at this point Carnival has not committed to any further monetary compensation to offset that.
Be treated "royally." Book Royal Caribbean next time and fly Southwest.
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canemedicrn
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:29 pm

Add another 763 from MCO

Delta 8858 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL8858

And I see four return flights to MCO starting around 1400

[Edited 2013-03-15 11:31:03]
 
CV880
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting CanemedicRN (Reply 41):
And I see four return flights to MCO starting around 1400

According to FlightAware, as of now DL has 9 charters with seat capacity over 2,000 sked from 0900-1730 today from SXM-MCO.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:32 pm

Presumably whomever negotiated this contract at DL should be in line for a "had tons of foresight" bonus
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lightsaber
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 10):
Stuck in St. Maarten

I'd have to demand extra compensation... to pay for the drinks consumed while watching the landings...   

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 43):

Presumably whomever negotiated this contract at DL should be in line for a "had tons of foresight" bonus

  

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 40):
Carnival Legend has canceled a port call in Grand Cayman and is "limping" under limited power back to Tampa.

Did carnival pick a bad gear vendor or something? Did they switch to discounted lubricants for their machinery? What is going wrong!?!

Lightsaber
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luv2fly
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 39):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 44):
Did carnival pick a bad gear vendor or something? Did they switch to discounted lubricants for their machinery? What is going wrong!?!

Lightsaber



You have to remember these ships sail 24/7 so no time for serious upkeep except during dry docks, everything else is fixed while sailing. And cruise lines have 3rd world crews that might not have the same work ethic as the USA! Of course a few members in charge will be USA or similar the rest is all 3rd world for the most part.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
wingnutmn
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 45):

That is a bold statement! I know and see plenty of lazy Americans with terrible work habits. Every country has both hard and lazy workers. I would NEVER say that the US is a model for a workforce.

Just your average pilot
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roseflyer
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 45):

You have to remember these ships sail 24/7 so no time for serious upkeep except during dry docks, everything else is fixed while sailing. And cruise lines have 3rd world crews that might not have the same work ethic as the USA! Of course a few members in charge will be USA or similar the rest is all 3rd world for the most part.

More Filipinos and Indonesians are working on international vessels than any other nationality. I agree the 24/7 operation puts a lot of strain on the ship, but the nationality of the crew and officers has little to do with that. When compared in aviation, US carriers are never at the top in reliability anyway. Keeping an airplane in the air or a ship at sea under the pressure that they go through is a monumental task.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:57 pm

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 39):
Guests not purchasing the cruise insurance may well have to absorb the additional fees and fares the airline may charge and at this point Carnival has not committed to any further monetary compensation to offset that.

Guests not purchasing cruise insurance are foolish. Unless you are a student, retired or drove to the port and can work with the cruise line's schedule should problems arise, you need INDEPENDENT cruise insurance from a US company so that you are not left in the hands of the cruise line that sails under the rules of a liberal foreign flag.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 44):
And cruise lines have 3rd world crews that might not have the same work ethic as the USA!

True. They likely work harder in worse conditions for less pay and don't bitch as much.  
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
LJ
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:14 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 45):

You have to remember these ships sail 24/7 so no time for serious upkeep except during dry docks, everything else is fixed while sailing. And cruise lines have 3rd world crews that might not have the same work ethic as the USA! Of course a few members in charge will be USA or similar the rest is all 3rd world for the most part.

However, the technicians aren't 3rd world by default. I know someone who also does maintenance on (cruise) ships, but isn't actually coming from a 3rd world country (unless The Netherlands has sunk to that). However, it seems that not many people who can do the job (why else would someone fly in someone from the Netherlands to do maintenance on a ship which is sailing in the Pacific).

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 39):

Don't think that SXM has the capacity to handle a lot of additional heavies at the same time, so it really must be staggered to some extent. Apron space is rather tight, IIRC, although I think the terminal has some spare capacity.

It seems as if the flights have been spread out over the entire day. Thus not many will be on the tarmac at the same time.
 
twal1011727
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RE: Carnival Dream Stranded / Charter Flights?

Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 20):
And DAB. They are able to clear customs in DAB through the international terminal which is equipped with a jetway. MLB has a jetway equipped at their international gate as well. Technically it is possible to accommodate them via MCO, MLB, and DAB. They could also use SFB if necessary.

Yes they are classified as an Int'l airport and do have customs but.....
MLB only has 1 agent on staff. DAB probably is the same way.
They would have to send agents over from either MCO or Port Canaveral.
If these flights went to MLB/DAB then clearing them would take hours.


KD

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