Sun Country Announces MSP-MDW Beginning July 1

N908AW · Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:08 pm

Just came across on the Sun Country Facebook page that SY will be flying MSP-MDW beginning July 1. Appears to be twice daily - MSP-MDW at 8:00am and 5:00pm and the returns at 10:25am and 7:15pm.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Sun Country's last attempt at Chicago (ORD a few years ago) didn't really pan out. And that was without Spirit.

https://www.facebook.com/suncountryair?ref=stream

MountainFlyer · Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting N908AW (Thread starter):
Sun Country's last attempt at Chicago (ORD a few years ago) didn't really pan out. And that was without Spirit.

Was that before or after WN came to MSP? I'm a little surprised that SY would go head-to-head with WN on this route.

fghtngsiouxatc · Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:50 pm

As much as I would like to see SY succeed on this route, I just don't see it happening. DL has a pretty good foothold on MDW, and WN has done quite well on this route since they started it. With only two frequencies, it's going to be hard for them. They are going to have to offer some low fares to make this work, and looking at their website right now, they aren't very competitive at $84 each way.

1. I wonder where they're going to park at MDW? My guess is concourse C. They might be put at the end of the A concourse at the vacant gates, I think A18 and A19 are open.

2. Will this force DL to bring mainline back on the MDW route? NW used to operate as large as a 757 into MDW, and rarely anything smaller than a DC-9 before the E175 showed up. Once they merged with DL, it's become all Compass 175s with a CR9 and even a CR2 thrown into the mix on weekends. Wishful thinking? I guess if they didn't when WN entered the game, SY won't have much effect.

wnflyguy · Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:57 pm

SY will be at the C1 gate.
wnfg

jetblueguy22 · Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 2):
As much as I would like to see SY succeed on this route, I just don't see it happening. DL has a pretty good foothold on MDW, and WN has done quite well on this route since they started it. With only two frequencies, it's going to be hard for them.

I agree. I just counted 8 WN flights a day to MDW. DL may be a problem, but I think WN is the bigger problem. That's a flight to their hub (or what ever the WN term is) for them and they aren't just going to give it up. Not to mention if I was someone who had to travel between those two points often I would rather fall back on 8 flights a day than 2. Though the SY flights do have some good timing IMO. They are really going to have to bank on their FFs to make this route work. Who knows though, maybe they can make a dent.
Pat

usflyer msp · Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:32 am

This must be why Gadek is gone...he probably (rightfully) told the owners that they were smoking crack if they expected this to be successful...

N908AW · Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:55 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 5):

This must be why Gadek is gone...he probably (rightfully) told the owners that they were smoking crack if they expected this to be successful...

I think the biggest way SY can make this successful is to 1.) leverage their brand loyalty, which appears to be working to some extent elsewhere, and 2.) tap into Chicago as a passenger source and not just MSP - particularly for connecting passengers. That has been an important part of their success in JFK, BOS, SEA...etc. That being said, I said on this forum not more than a week ago that their success on this route, if it ever came back, would be limited and not just because of the other blue-and-orange 737 operator. DL has inherited NW's utter disdain for SY and I think you will see a renewed emphasis on MDW from Mother Delta.

But I think regardless of how successful it is, this isn't going to make or break the bank either way. Low yield, short route, not a ton of committed aircraft time.

usflyer msp · Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:35 am

Quoting N908AW (Reply 6):
1.) leverage their brand loyalty, which appears to be working to some extent elsewhere,

SY does not have much brand loyalty. There is a small amount from the beach crowd but virtually none from the biz pax the make up the majority of MSP-CHI pax. Most business pax only fly SY because they are cheaper (especially for one-way flights).

Quoting N908AW (Reply 6):
2.) tap into Chicago as a passenger source and not just MSP - particularly for connecting passengers.

Actually, SY sees relatively few connect pax. Most of their flights are only 1x daily and only provide connectivity in one-direction or only a few days a week.

Quoting N908AW (Reply 6):
DL has inherited NW's utter disdain for SY and I think you will see a renewed emphasis on MDW from Mother Delta.

I find that DL rarely matches SY fares lately and if they do they require a r/t purchase unlike SY.

I wish SY nothing but the best but there is no way they will be successful on MSP-MDW competing against WN and DL's 8x daily flights and brand recognition on both ends (not to mention all the flights to ORD)....

Mexicana757 · Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:05 am

Nice to see a new operator come into MDW. Wishing tSun Country the best on MSP-MDW. The MSP-CHI market just got a little more crowded. SY will join AA, DL, NK, UA and WN on the route.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 1):
Was that before or after WN came to MSP?

Before WN entered MSP.

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 2):
Will this force DL to bring mainline back on the MDW route? NW used to operate as large as a 757 into MDW, and rarely anything smaller than a DC-9 before the E175 showed up. Once they merged with DL, it's become all Compass 175s with a CR9 and even a CR2 thrown into the mix on weekends. Wishful thinking? I guess if they didn't when WN entered the game, SY won't have much effect.

Who knows if DL will react. MSP-MDW may be a good 717 candidate. Did they ever react towards NK when they added ORD-MSP?

Mexicana757 · Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:22 am

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 2):
They are going to have to offer some low fares to make this work, and looking at their website right now, they aren't very competitive at $84 each way.

Looking at their website they are offering $69 each way.

F9Animal · Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:08 am

The times of the flights are pretty attractive IMHO. One could get to either place early, and return back later. Perhaps they might attract frequent business flyers? I think SY might do pretty good here. They fly plenty of routes that have head to head with WN. MSP to SEA flights are always packed on SY, and DL does not seem to be too concerned. Maybe I am wrong, but I know it is nice to see Sun Country growing its route map!

jfklganyc · Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:08 pm

I wouldnt count SY out.

They have been flying JFK-MSP for years and years and seem to do fine. 1. Most MSP flights go to LGA 2. DL than NW is very established on the route.

That tells me they are a niche carrier and can compete in a crowded market

MSPNWA · Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:15 pm

I don't think joining the MSP-CHI bloodbath will be a big money maker for SY, but they compete well with their low costs.

1) Since Chicago is such a key market for MSP, it's pretty important for them to have service there if they want to grow and maintain their FF base.

2) WN doesn't offer first class. So only DL has had first class to MDW, and there could be some fruit there left to pick for SY.

SYfan100 · Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:31 pm

SY should do well on that route as more and more people start flying them because they do have really good customer service. And also they have been getting more people because Delta has been cutting flights down to where do you want to fly on a big 737 plane? Or a small ERJ?
Maybe at somepoint more routes will see a second daily flight as they add more planes to their fleet? We all know 806SY is leaving the fleet after 10 years as someone mentioned in another thread, but at the sametime though they are getting a bunch of 737-700s and a couple of 737-800s.

Type-Rated · Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:05 pm

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 2):
I wonder where they're going to park at MDW? My guess is concourse C

I would hardly call "C" a concourse as it is just a short little stub with 3 gates on it. But Concouse C is the name of that area and I guess we have to live it it.

Do you think they would ever extend C to add more gates? I think if they did it would run into the taxiways leading to the 22's.

n7371f · Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:27 am

Let's see if Delta channels its old Northwest - add 2 extra daily flights and put 757-300's up against Sun Country's two flights.

Mexicana757 · Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:40 pm

Here are the flights:

SY 173 MSP 8:00am- 9:25am MDW
SY 174 MDW 10:25am- 11:50am MSP

SY 175 MSP 5:00pm- 6:25pm MDW
SY 176 MDW 7:15pm 8:40pm MSP

And looks like SY is offering connections to cities in the west coast; LAX, LAS, SAN, SFO, SEA, ANC

Quoting n7371f (Reply 15):

Let's see if Delta channels its old Northwest - add 2 extra daily flights and put 757-300's up against Sun Country's two flights.

I don't see DL going to that extreme. If they do something it will probably be an up gauge of one or two flights to A319 or an increase in frequency. Or they will do nothing.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 14):
Do you think they would ever extend C to add more gates? I think if they did it would run into the taxiways leading to the 22's.

I would like to see them extend concourse C and make this area the FIS gates.

KarlB737 · Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 2):
They are going to have to offer some low fares to make this work

Courtesy: KSTP-TV

New Direct Flights from MSP to Chicago on Sun Country

"A round-trip flight will cost about $138, according to the airline. By comparison, the same flight would cost about $250 on Delta."

http://alexandria.kstp.com/news/news...ct-flights-msp-chicago-sun-country

fghtngsiouxatc · Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:30 pm

According to the 3/29 OAG thread, DL is reducing from 8 to 7 daily MSP-MDW flights, but adding an A319 on the afternoon/early evening flight. Let's see how long this lasts...

[Edited 2013-03-25 13:36:24]

KarlB737 · Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:29 pm

Here is more info on this news from USA Today:

Courtesy: USA Today

Sun Country To Try Busy Chicago-Minneapolis Market

"Davis, the Sun Country board chairman, tells the Star Tribune that his airline is not going after the low-end of the market.

We're trying to fill a niche and not go head-to-head with the other carriers. We're not going to make this a price play," Davis tells the Star Tribune."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...hicago-minneapolis-market/2017827/

Courtesy: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Sun Country To Launch MSP-To-Chicago Service

http://www.startribune.com/business/199614041.html?refer=y

[Edited 2013-03-26 07:37:23]

NWAROOSTER · Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 15):
Let's see if Delta channels its old Northwest - add 2 extra daily flights and put 757-300's up against Sun Country's two flights.

Delta is NEVER going to fly a 757-351 between MSP and MDW. That is just to large an aircraft and I serious;y doubt if MDW could handle a 757-351. Delta may use the Boeing 717 on this route. But that would be as large an aircraft they would use to fly to MDW.
It appears now that Delta uses regional jets on that route.

tzfalax · Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:58 pm

MDW can definitely handle the 757-3 unless something has changed in the last few years. ATA operated the type before shutting down.

Cubsrule · Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 20):
Delta is NEVER going to fly a 757-351 between MSP and MDW.

NW scheduled them in for several years, albeit not at DL's current gates IIRC.

Quoting TZFALAX (Reply 21):
MDW can definitely handle the 757-3 unless something has changed in the last few years.

Nothing has changed.

fghtngsiouxatc · Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
NW scheduled them in for several years, albeit not at DL's current gates IIRC.

Are you sure NW sent the -300 into MDW? I flew that route several times a year back in the NW days and never saw anything larger than a -200.

I agree though, I highly doubt DL will ever send a -300 into MDW. I've been on several E175's that haven't even been half full, although they're usually at least 75% full.

However, depending on SY's success on the route, I could see the A319 becoming permanent on 1 or 2 flights, and maybe an upgrade to an A320 or MD90 at some point.

ouboy79 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:47 am

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 23):
Are you sure NW sent the -300 into MDW? I flew that route several times a year back in the NW days and never saw anything larger than a -200.

I'm not sure about NW, but TZ definitely did. Took it several times to FLL.

n7371f · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 20):
Delta is NEVER going to fly a 757-351 between MSP and MDW. That is just to large an aircraft and I serious;y doubt if MDW could handle a 757-351. Delta may use the Boeing 717 on this route. But that would be as large an aircraft they would use to fly to MDW.

You're missing the point. I'm not talking about Delta. I was hypothesizing that if Delta wanted to react like its predecessor, NWA, did to new competition, it would add the -300's to fly wingtip to wingtip versus the Sun Country flights. Northwest's aggressive reaction to new competition is legendary and I'm guessing you're well aware of that given your call sign.

WNCrew · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:56 am

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 23):
Are you sure NW sent the -300 into MDW? I flew that route several times a year back in the NW days and never saw anything larger than a -200.

They may not be sure but I am, as a crewmember who finds themselves in MDW often I can assure you that NW often sent in the 753 into MDW from MSP.

Cubsrule · Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 26):
They may not be sure but I am, as a crewmember who finds themselves in MDW often I can assure you that NW often sent in the 753 into MDW from MSP.

That said, NW was notorious for subbing between 757 subtypes (as well as between Airbus subtypes and DC-9 subtypes), so I'm not sure they were ever scheduled, nor am I sure that if they were scheduled it was daily.

NWAROOSTER · Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:07 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 25):

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 20):
Delta is NEVER going to fly a 757-351 between MSP and MDW. That is just to large an aircraft and I serious;y doubt if MDW could handle a 757-351. Delta may use the Boeing 717 on this route. But that would be as large an aircraft they would use to fly to MDW.

You're missing the point. I'm not talking about Delta. I was hypothesizing that if Delta wanted to react like its predecessor, NWA, did to new competition, it would add the -300's to fly wingtip to wingtip versus the Sun Country flights. Northwest's aggressive reaction to new competition is legendary and I'm guessing you're well aware of that given your call sign.

I am very well away of what Northwest did. Northwest would go to almost any means to protect it's turf. MSP was it's home town and any challengers were going to be in for a fight. Northwest ran several airlines out of MSP, that tried invading their territory at MSP.
I am talking about Delta, which is headquartered in ATL, not in MSP. Yes, MSP is an important hub to Delta, but it is NOT the same as ATL. Delta will NEVER fly a 757-351 on a scheduled basis from MSP to MDW wing tip to wing tip with or against either or both Sun Country Airlines and Southwest Airlines, which both use 737-700s. This is NOW Delta and Delta has has much better uses for their 757-351s. Delta currently uses RJs on this route and MAY consider upgrading to Boeing 717s when they start flying them or using Airbus A319s if they feel the need.
Remember, Northwest Airlines no longer exists and Sun Country may now be considered the hometown airline at MSP.

Metjetceo · Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:00 am

It's a different world now. The 75 s generate international fares and high utilization on trans Atlantic routes which used to be limited to 76s and larger. MDW is exactly what narrow bodies were designed for...big city to big city high frequency routes.

n7371f · Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:42 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 28):
Remember, Northwest Airlines no longer exists and Sun Country may now be considered the hometown airline at MSP

Really? I better check the headlines.

NWAROOSTER · Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:30 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 30):

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 28):
Remember, Northwest Airlines no longer exists and Sun Country may now be considered the hometown airline at MSP

Really? I better check the headlines.

I think you better check the headlines. Or better yet, talk to Sun Country

sunking737 · Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:51 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 31):
I think you better check the headlines. Or better yet, talk to Sun Country

Lets see who's still around...Champion, GONE, Mesaba, GONE, (No MN HQ), North Central/Republic, GONE, Northwest GONE,.........SUN COUNTRY founded May 1982....STILL ALIVE and kicking. (Big Grin)

MountainFlyer · Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:45 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 20):
Delta may use the Boeing 717 on this route. But that would be as large an aircraft they would use to fly to MDW.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 28):
Delta currently uses RJs on this route and MAY consider upgrading to Boeing 717s when they start flying them or using Airbus A319s if they feel the need.

Already happening. A319's on the route this summer.

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 18):
According to the 3/29 OAG thread, DL is reducing from 8 to 7 daily MSP-MDW flights, but adding an A319 on the afternoon/early evening flight.

Flytravel · Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:01 am

Having the experience of the recent AirTran acquisition and codeshare functional, would Southwest be interested in buying out Sun Country? It probably wouldn't cost much at all for them. I'd think it'd eliminate this competition, one benefit, and Southwest would get the DCA slot but used for (MSP-LAN-DCA), JFK slot (maybe it could switch to MDW service) but mostly for increasing marketshare at MSP with the mix of cities domestic/international service.

[Edited 2013-03-28 22:08:27]

NWAROOSTER · Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 28):
I am very well away of what Northwest did. Northwest would go to almost any means to protect it's turf. MSP was it's home town and any challengers were going to be in for a fight. Northwest ran several airlines out of MSP, that tried invading their territory at MSP.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 31):

Quoting n7371f (Reply 30):

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 28):
Remember, Northwest Airlines no longer exists and Sun Country may now be considered the hometown airline at MSP

Really? I better check the headlines.

I think you better check the headlines. Or better yet, talk to Sun Country

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 32):

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 31):
I think you better check the headlines. Or better yet, talk to Sun Country

Lets see who's still around...Champion, GONE, Mesaba, GONE, (No MN HQ), North Central/Republic, GONE, Northwest GONE,.........SUN COUNTRY founded May 1982....STILL ALIVE and kicking. (Big Grin)

n7371f, did you really check the head lines? Sunking737 has pretty much stated the facts. Vanguard Airlines is another airline that got shown the door. Champion was created with the Pohlad family and run as a charter airline that Mainline Tours, also known as MLT, which was owned by Northwest Airlines used for selling charter seats after Northwest had a falling out with Sun Country. Champion had several key executive employees that had been key executive employees at Northwest. Champion, which flew only the 727 in the end was closed down. Sun Country was originally 51 percent owned by MLT and Northwest eventually bought MLT. Thus for a time Sun Country was owned by Northwest Airlines. Delta Air LInes now owns MLT and just recently moved MLT from MSP to ATL.
All the above airlines, not mentioned above by me, are gone due to mergers or acquisitions. Except for Mesaba, the other are now part of Delta Air Lines. Delta Air Lines sold Mesaba to Pinnacle Airlines when Delta decided it did not want to fly turboprop aircraft such as the SAAB 340. What happens to Mesaba Airlines, is anyones guess.
So Sun Country is now the home town airline as Sun Country and the local media continue to point out.

[Edited 2013-03-29 09:39:48]

[Edited 2013-03-29 09:40:59]

Sun Country Announces MSP-MDW Beginning July 1

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