akelley728
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FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:52 am

An update from the The New York Times on the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) stance on the use of electronics during takeoff and landing. Looks like progress is being made.

Hopefully soon we can whip out the Kindles and iPads in all phases of flight!

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/disruptions-f-a-a-may-loosen-curbs-on-fliers-use-of-electronics/

http://www.gadling.com/2013/03/24/faa-to-relax-rules-on-in-flight-electronic-use/

[Edited 2013-03-24 20:55:30]
 
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autothrust
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:52 am

Oh no please, that would be horrific. Please ban all electronics for the whole flight. I don't need kids or ppl playing with iphones and talking loud the whole flight.
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s5daw
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:15 am

It does make sense to forbid use of earphones during takeoff-landing to improve situation awareness IMHO.
 
0newair0
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:45 am

Hypothetically...

When the first accident happens after this regulation is relaxed and 100 iPads, Pods, and the like become projectiles floating through the air, how many people are going to sue for injuries sustained from said devices?
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Cubsrule
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:08 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 3):
When the first accident happens after this regulation is relaxed and 100 iPads, Pods, and the like become projectiles floating through the air, how many people are going to sue for injuries sustained from said devices?

Most iPads are lighter than most of the books I read . . .
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0newair0
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:23 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
Most iPads are lighter than most of the books I read . . .

That is true, but electronics are made out of harder materials. I tried to answer a call in the middle of the night once and accidentally dropped the phone on my face. It wasn't pleasant and definitely hurt more than a paperback. The smartphone couldn't have been more than 8 inches away from my face at the time.
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[email protected]
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:24 pm

well, would still prefer to be hit by a much softer book as by a solid I-(whatever)...
heard once that this is a major reason airlines like the ban of electronics + attention of the pax of course...
anyhow, guess with the chance to drop IFE mid term they getting more open
 
MHTripple7
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:25 pm

I've never really understood the situational awareness argument. Even without the use of electronics during takeoff and landing, passengers still seem pay relatively little attention to what's going on. I suggest you look around the cabin on your next flight and observe how many passengers are looking out the window and paying attention to the aircraft during the critical stages of the flight. From my personal observation, the majority of passengers are reading, sleeping, or talking with someone else aka not paying attention.

I do agree that these objects could become projectiles. With that said, I will often hold my phone and headphones in my lap during takeoff and landing for easy access, and I've never been told to stow it.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 5):
That is true, but electronics are made out of harder materials. I tried to answer a call in the middle of the night once and accidentally dropped the phone on my face. It wasn't pleasant and definitely hurt more than a paperback. The smartphone couldn't have been more than 8 inches away from my face at the time.

If there's some evidence that portable electronic devices are more likely to hurt passengers in a crash than other, permitted carryons, let's talk about it.
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silentbob
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
If there's some evidence that portable electronic devices are more likely to hurt passengers in a crash than other, permitted carryons, let's talk about it.

I'll tell you what, you stand still and have some people pelt you with paperback books, newspapers and iPads, then tell us which hurts more.
 
BD338
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting autothrust (Reply 1):
playing with iphones and talking loud the whole flight.

FAA is not considering allowing the use of cellphones, it is considering allowing allowing tablets/readers etc.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 3):
When the first accident happens after this regulation is relaxed and 100 iPads, Pods, and the like become projectiles floating through the air, how many people are going to sue for injuries sustained from said devices?

My guess is that any accident that sets off that level of projectiles in the cabin, has probably got far larger issues and getting hit by a flying ipad will probably be the least of my worries.
 
timpdx
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:45 pm

Can someone answer this: ever since I was a kid, AM and FM radios have been banned, you know, like a transistor radio, a AM/FM walkman. What ever was the reason for this? You are not supposed to even listen to a FM radio in level flight above 10K ft. These things never transmit anything, I can understand things that actually broadcast, but banning listening to the radio in flight always seemed absolutely senseless

(and yes, as a kid, I listened to my FM walkman, could tune in flying over St. Louis or wherever at 35,000 ft and tell where you were in the country, even if you could only get a signal for 15 minutes or less)

[Edited 2013-03-25 09:45:59]

[Edited 2013-03-25 09:46:47]
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jreuschl
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:49 pm

They could say that you cannot use headphones during take off/landing in case of emergency instructions.

I'm sure plenty of the general public has no idea what an airplane mode is or how to turn off wifi on their device is one problem.
 
winstonlegthigh
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:03 pm

I don't think I'd ever be able to read a book entirely on my iPad.
I received a laptop for Christmas two years ago with what essentially amounted to a small library of books pre-loaded. Impressive and thoughtful, because I'm an avid reader- but I haven't done more than open the folder they're in to peruse through the titles. Paper or bust.

Browsing through Youtube etc., it would appear that this electronics restriction isn't something that is strictly adhered to anyway- unless all those takeoff & landing videos & images are just incredibly realistic cartoons and drawings...

[Edited 2013-03-25 12:23:18]
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bueb0g
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
Most iPads are lighter than most of the books I read . . .

Are you honestly telling me that a book hitting the back of your head will hurt more than the corner of an iPad?

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 7):
I've never really understood the situational awareness argument. Even without the use of electronics during takeoff and landing, passengers still seem pay relatively little attention to what's going on. I suggest you look around the cabin on your next flight and observe how many passengers are looking out the window and paying attention to the aircraft during the critical stages of the flight.

This is all true. However, much use of electronic devices includes the use of earphones, and this is a problem - if the crew have a safety announcement to make, or command an evacuation, it's much better if the pax can hear it.

Quoting BD338 (Reply 10):
My guess is that any accident that sets off that level of projectiles in the cabin, has probably got far larger issues and getting hit by a flying ipad will probably be the least of my worries.

But the point is that iPad needn't be a worry at all. Plus, it's quite possible that with a cabin full of people using iPads (which are quite heavy) a rejected takeoff could send some hurtling, potentially injuring where there was no need to (this is also why you're asked to have your armrests down for takeoff and landing).
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dfambro
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:32 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 3):
Hypothetically...

When the first accident happens after this regulation is relaxed and 100 iPads, Pods, and the like become projectiles floating through the air, how many people are going to sue for injuries sustained from said devices?

These items weren't banned from use because they might become projectiles.

Let's not make up new reasons to ban then.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:47 pm

This is just part of the ongoing political pushing between the FCC and FAA. Now Congress is involved also:

FCC To FAA: Allow Greater Use Of Devices Inflight (by LAXintl Dec 7 2012 in Civil Aviation)

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n797mx
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 3):
When the first accident happens after this regulation is relaxed and 100 iPads, Pods, and the like become projectiles floating through the air, how many people are going to sue for injuries sustained from said devices?

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Continental
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:23 am

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 7):

I've never really understood the situational awareness argument. Even without the use of electronics during takeoff and landing, passengers still seem pay relatively little attention to what's going on. I suggest you look around the cabin on your next flight and observe how many passengers are looking out the window and paying attention to the aircraft during the critical stages of the flight. From my personal observation, the majority of passengers are reading, sleeping, or talking with someone else aka not paying attention.

Furthermore, if a real situation did occur, don't you think people would want to redirect their attention out of their own interest? I'm sure no one was listening to their iPod or reading their iPad when that US Airbus landed in the Hudson.
 
Mir
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:54 am

Quoting autothrust (Reply 1):
Please ban all electronics for the whole flight. I don't need kids or ppl playing with iphones and talking loud the whole flight.

People are able to play with iPhones now - it's just during takeoff and landing that they have to turn them off. And there's no regulation against people talking loud, nor will there ever be.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 14):
However, much use of electronic devices includes the use of earphones, and this is a problem - if the crew have a safety announcement to make, or command an evacuation, it's much better if the pax can hear it.

If such an announcement is necessary, I feel very confident that the passengers will know that something's up and will be attentive.

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flylku
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:43 am

Quoting timpdx (Reply 11):
Can someone answer this: ever since I was a kid, AM and FM radios have been banned, you know, like a transistor radio, a AM/FM walkman. What ever was the reason for this? You are not supposed to even listen to a FM radio in level flight above 10K ft. These things never transmit anything, I can understand things that actually broadcast, but banning listening to the radio in flight always seemed absolutely senseless

I do not know this for a fact but this is what I suspect. I was an amateur radio operator growing up and the one they I know about receiver design is that inside there are lots of little oscillators on various frequencies. I believe that FM is on 87.5 Mhz to 108 Mhz which is very close to the VOR and ILS range which is 108 to 118 MHZ and communication which is 118 to 137 Mhz. Consumer electronics are not well shielded so there is the potential that one of the internal oscillators inside the receiver could interfere. Compound that with dozens of them operating in close proximity to one another and if you remember high school physics (waves and troughs that are in synch or out of synch compound or cancel one another - the principal in noise canceling headsets) and there may be a slight risk or interference.

Again, just a guess.
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Cubsrule
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 14):
Are you honestly telling me that a book hitting the back of your head will hurt more than the corner of an iPad?

As between the corner of a hardcover book and the cover of an iPad, I'm not sure there's much difference. I wouldn't want to get hit with either. I'd probably prefer the iPad simply because the edges are less sharp.
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EA CO AS
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:58 am

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 3):
Hypothetically...

When the first accident happens after this regulation is relaxed and 100 iPads, Pods, and the like become projectiles floating through the air, how many people are going to sue for injuries sustained from said devices?

So why aren't you concerned about the 24lb lap child who would become a much more lethal - to the baby and others - projectile? I'd like to see the lap child under 2 rule go away.

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 7):
I've never really understood the situational awareness argument.

That's because it's not a relevant one. Read on:

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 12):
They could say that you cannot use headphones during take off/landing in case of emergency instructions.

Could they ban customers from reading a book? A magazine? Talking to their seatmates? How about sleeping?

Fact of the matter is, unless there's a law requiring customers give their undivided attention to the crew during safety demos and critical phases of flight, this is a straw man argument at best.
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YYCSpotter
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:25 am

Quoting autothrust (Reply 1):
Oh no please, that would be horrific. Please ban all electronics for the whole flight. I don't need kids or ppl playing with iphones and talking loud the whole flight.

Would quite the opposite happen? I know if I were a kid, I would be far quieter if I could be playing a game on my parents iPad than if not... use this to your advantage
 
airtechy
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:55 am

What I don't understand is the people who get on a plane and immediately remove their shoes....especially in business class. In an emergency, would they want to exit a burning plane in their socks?  Wow!
 
0newair0
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:22 am

Who's making up reasons? The fact is that currently all

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
So why aren't you concerned about the 24lb lap child who would become a much more lethal - to the baby and others - projectile? I'd like to see the lap child under 2 rule go away.

Oh, I am... especially if there's a poop filled diaper involved.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
deepunderground
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
So why aren't you concerned about the 24lb lap child who would become a much more lethal - to the baby and others - projectile? I'd like to see the lap child under 2 rule go away.

Or US airlines could get with the times and require (and provide) an infant harness during takeoff and landing like the rest of the world?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FAA May Soon Loosen Curbs On Use Of Electronics

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:36 pm

Quoting deepunderground (Reply 26):
Or US airlines could get with the times and require (and provide) an infant harness during takeoff and landing like the rest of the world?

Oh, there's one provided. It's called a car seat. Of course, that requires spending the money to buy the child a seat, but as somebody who has traveled a lot with the under 2 set, I say that's the only way to go.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more

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