New AA Livery Not Set In Stone

Byrdluvs747 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:47 pm

I didn't see this posted in the AA repaint thread.

American Airlines new design not a done deal post-merger, says incoming CEO

http://skift.com/2013/03/26/american...eal-post-merger-says-incoming-ceo/

817Dreamliiner · Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:58 pm

Interesting, thanks for sharing that. While its not a done deal, its much of an indication that it will change. He did in fact say He doesnt know the answer to the question yet... Will it change? Maybe, Maybe not... Who knows. We'll just have to wait and see really...

BlatantEcho · Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:03 pm

This is good news. The new livery is so terrible, I don't think they have a choice but to 'refresh' it once the merger is complete.

No major airline can fly with that tail if they want to be taken seriously.

rj777 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:56 pm

I think they should take the soaring eagle and put it on the tail. (As well as the winglets)

jayunited · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:05 pm

If the livery is going to change wouldn't it make since for AA to stop repainting their aircraft in order to save money? I know Parker can't tell AA to stop the repainting process because he is not yet the CEO of AA, however since all parties involved know that the government will sign off on this merger wouldn't it be smart to get some AA and US people together and make a final decision to either keep the current new AA livery or start working on an all new livery for the new AA/US and stop AA from waisting any more money painting their aircraft in this new scheme?

romeobravo · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:10 pm

I know, just put it back to the old unique and timeless classic that they had.

AeroWesty · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:18 pm

Hallelujah. Get rid of that tail. Somebody. Anybody. Please.

BC77008 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:32 pm

It's not going to change. DP said this to employees in CLT and PHX just to appease them. Nothing to see here folks, move on....

NWAROOSTER · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:32 pm

American Airlines is going to need to repaint their aircraft , merger or no merger. Their aircraft now have a lot of composite materials used on them and that all has to be painted. Just painting the composite creates a checkerboard effect with the bare aluminum used on it's aircraft. If I am correct any Airbus aircraft that American or US Airways use aluminum that does not have Alclad Aluminum and requires painting. This is why all Airbus aircraft are painted with a green primer. I have heard that Airbus will use Alclad , but the customer must wait for it and pay for the Alclad Aluminum.
The Fokker F-100s that American had came with Alclad Aluminum, but it had to be ordered special. American at that time did not want to paint the fuselage of their aircraft, but wanted them to be bare polished aluminum.
This saved weight, reduced drag and reduced fuel consumption.

questions · Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:58 pm

As predicted by a lot of folks, this disaster of a new AA livery will not stick. Changing it is just not the highest priority in the middle of a transaction this size and Parker's previous comments were just polite corporate speak to show support until he is fully in charge.

scbriml · Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 2):
The new livery is so terrible

Having seen it with my own eyes in Dallas recently in both good and indifferent weather, I have to say I like it.

I think it's a BIG improvement on the mishmash that the ancient livery had become with different bits of various planes painted grey. If not frequently polished, the bare metal becomes shabby very quickly. From the state of some of the fleet, it's obvious that polishing had dropped way down AA's priority list.

SEA · Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:25 pm

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 5):

I know, just put it back to the old unique and timeless classic that they had.

A few months ago everyone said it was hideous and old and dated and now it's unique and timeless.

I think the problem is not the livery, it's a.nutters

william · Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:26 pm

The only problem I have is the base coat. If that is silver, I want to see AA's definition of light gray.

cruiseshipcrew · Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:41 pm

My sources say its 100% confirmed a new livery and logo is already being worked on and I have full trust in my sources. The Delta Airlines Ron Allen livery will feel like it lasted forever compared to this.

ukoverlander · Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:41 pm

Get rid of it. It's hideous - a crass, in your face, tasteless design that lacks any kind of class or subtlety.

[Edited 2013-03-28 08:43:48]

avek00 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:45 pm

Eh, I just interpret The AAlcoholic's comments to mean that once he's CEO, they'll keep the new AA livery, but change the tail to a tint-coordinated version of the current US tail. Together that'd be a sweet livery.

austwin · Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:52 pm

If they would fix the tail so that the blue field didn't have lines it would look like a flag. As it is now, it looks like piano keys to me. And the paint needs to be more silver, imho. I'd prefer the eagle, but if the flag was fixed that would be ok with me too.

BN747 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:04 pm

Wow... to get a CEO to even comment on something so trivial??? All the bitching MUST have gotten someone's attention ..enough to force these comments.

I've never seen an airline CEO come remotely close to a ...'hold on a minute..' about something of this rather insignificant nature. They usually have a 'whatever attitude' about this stuff.

Lord knows I bitched up a firestorm here, on youtube vids, on news web pages that discussed the 'new livery' - along with many many others. I've no doubt that the 'torrential rain of negative comments' left a stinging impact on someone in PR who felt it worthy to run in up the chain to prompt this addressing of the issue.

Now the clue to this being 'fluff n puff' or an actual area of concern will come in the form of a decelerated paint schedule, the guys here who seem to have a handle on the ships headed for the paint shops, will pick up on it right away. If that happens...I'll be one happy camper.

Iberia put the brakes on their ugly revision. So now there's hope AA can go back and get it right...funny thing is, US Airways has never ran into an ugly scheme they didn't like. For them to speak of a livery...that's HUGE.

Whoever forced the issue, please read this....

I've seen two ships up-close and personal... it blows, in big chunks. In a video at Heathrow, that tail next to a sea of British Airways - Union Jack tails looked like a piss poor attempt to 'also put our (US) flag on a tail'..it really looks that bad.

1. - Get rid of that tail ...at a very minimum! (start completely over! Even consider some of renderings done by a few A.netters here in the thread discussing the 'new livery').

2. - Embolden that forward fuselage appearance just a tad

..but whatever you do..abandon this 'cheap video-game' look.. it is indeed horrendous! It's just not meant to be worn by America's premier carrier!

BN747

gulfstream650 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
Hallelujah. Get rid of that tail. Somebody. Anybody. Please.

I just don't know how they could have got it so wrong. So very wrong.

KarelXWB · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 13):
My sources say its 100% confirmed a new livery and logo is already being worked on and I have full trust in my sources. The Delta Airlines Ron Allen livery will feel like it lasted forever compared to this.

So why changing it in the first place

What a waste of money.

ikramerica · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:38 pm

The only issue I see here is that the US tail is pretty poor so the decision makers involved wont have a history of good decisions on livery. Redoing the newly painted tails and leaving the rest is the easiest option, and likely what will happen. Repaint the US birds and unrepainted AA birds first, hit the tails of the recent ones last. Or do a B6 and come up with multiple tails leaving the current tails as is.

georgiaame · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:44 pm

Actually, I really like the tail. It's that off tone, Euro-white fuselage that I think is ugly. Eagle it up a bit, dare to be distinctive! People might not have liked Delta's "wavy-gravy" tail (I loved it), but it was distinctive and different from all the others - a hell of a lot better than the dull mess they fly these days. Get some Stars and Bars, Eagles, SOMETHING, onto that bland tube!

ER757 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:46 pm

Gee, thanks DP - just what a.net needed , yet another AA livery thread.

klkla · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:47 pm

The rest of the branding is pretty good. I think 90% of us on here agree that the problem is the tail and seemingly Parker gets this, as well. I'm willing to bet that the tail is the only thing DP changes.

rj777 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:49 pm

They only have, what, 10 planes painted in the new color scheme?

sankaps · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
Wow... to get a CEO to even comment on something so trivial??? All the bitching MUST have gotten someone's attention ..enough to force these comments.

I've never seen an airline CEO come remotely close to a ...'hold on a minute..' about something of this rather insignificant nature. They usually have a 'whatever attitude' about this stuff.

Airline CEOs are actually usually very interested and involved in things like the livery. In fact they often like to have the final say. It is not trivial for them at all, it is an integral part of the airline's branding and what it stands for.

gdg9 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting klkla (Reply 23):
I think 90% of us on here agree that the problem is the tail

The tail is an awful mess and lets not forget the bland, banal fuselage. Throw some color or stripes on there. Something. This looks like it was designed on a napkin in 10 minutes.

Markam · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:17 pm

I know I am going against the A.net tide, by I actually like the new livery better than the old one. I mean, the old one was nice... 30 years ago, for the 2010s it looked incredibly outdated. So, I welcome the change.

That said, may it have been done better? Maybe. So, it is not surprising that all cards are on the table, but I do not think that they are going back to the old livery, and be careful with what you wish because a new livery doesn't necessarily mean a better livery, AA may end up with a variation of eurowhite, which would make the current one look shining!

Also, irrespective of all of the above, I think that Doug Parker or whoever would be fools to implement a new livery if AA has already painted a substantial amount of planes when the merger actually happens, livery should be the least of their priorities, especially if a further change would mean significant additional cost.

Noise · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:25 pm

Keep the US Airways logo, but use the American Airlines name. The US Airways scheme is classy and beautiful.

gkpetery · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:26 pm

I love the new AA livery and logo! What's wrong with showing a little American pride in our flag on the tail of "American Airlines?" It makes sense to me and I think the colors are powerful and strong. As a first born American from an immigrant family, "Becoming a New American" slogan of change and becoming better resonated with me. It's a beautiful slogan about the changes that are taking place now I hope will also parallel our country's recovery as well.

sankaps · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting gkpetery (Reply 29):
love the new AA livery and logo! What's wrong with showing a little American pride in our flag on the tail of "American Airlines?"

Nothing wrong with showing American pride at all, that is not the issue here. I think people just think the way the flag design has been stylized and executed is ugly, unlike say the British flag on BA which most people feel is tastefully done.

DL WIDGET HEAD · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 28):
Keep the US Airways logo, but use the American Airlines name. The US Airways scheme is classy and beautiful.

Slap an AA and eagle on the US tail in place of their stylized flag and the name "American" on the fuselage and there you have it. A wonderful scheme that is recognized the world over instead of the abomination they just paid millions for.

[Edited 2013-03-28 10:46:36]

na · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:46 pm

The merger talks were certainly on for some time before AA entered into the final stages of discussing a new CI. I wonder why the AA board wasnt so clever to wait another few months with it. Sounds pretty ill-managed to me.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 2):
No major airline can fly with that tail if they want to be taken seriously.

I think it looks much better than the drab grey old tail.

jsnww81 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting Markam (Reply 27):
Also, irrespective of all of the above, I think that Doug Parker or whoever would be fools to implement a new livery if AA has already painted a substantial amount of planes when the merger actually happens, livery should be the least of their priorities, especially if a further change would mean significant additional cost.

Very valid point. I have been surprised at the speed with which AA is repainting aircraft. Per the most recent thread, there are already 18 aircraft painted or being repainted. They are moving quickly. If that pace continues, by summertime they'll have passed the point where they can "call an audible" on the new livery.

Without digressing too much into personal opinion, I've come completely around on the new look. When it was unveiled back in January, I was part of the crowd that was foaming at the mouth with rage. Since then I've had the chance to see it in person on multiple aircraft - I even flew a repainted CRJ-700 two days ago from ORD to IAH - and have become a fan. And aside from the tail, I think most people agree every other component of the new brand - advertising, print materials, loyalty cards, airport furnishings, etc. - looks very fresh and very nice. I'd hate to see all of that investment go to waste.

I could see the tail getting a tweak or some kind of refresher if it really bothers Doug Parker that much. But this was a huge expenditure and a multi-year effort at AA, and at the rate they're repainting planes, I suspect it's going to stick around.

flyguy89 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:54 pm

Am I the only who doesn't find US's current scheme attractive? I far preferred their old one, the new one looks cartoonish and like it was ripped off from Presidential Airways:

a3xx900 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:04 pm

Well,
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution... Nothing drastic, they can still pay whoever came up with the new CI but the tail is less colorfull yet shows the eagle (which I really like btw) and the "American" letters are chrome-polished as a salute to the good old AA days

romeobravo · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting SEA (Reply 11):
A few months ago everyone said it was hideous and old and dated and now it's unique and timeless.

I think the problem is not the livery, it's a.nutters

Well i was not one of those people. In fact i don't think your statement is reflective at all. I think a lot of people agreed with me then too.

AeroWesty · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 33):
If that pace continues, by summertime they'll have passed the point where they can "call an audible" on the new livery.

Well that's the thing, isn't it. Horton has a $20 million severance package on the line, plus a year's worth of CEO responsibilities lined up. He certainly doesn't want to be seen setting up an adversarial position on any subject, even something like the livery, if he wants things to go smoothly.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 36):
I think a lot of people agreed with me then too.

Back then? You only joined on Feb 14th, over two weeks after the new livery was revealed.

william · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:25 pm

My problem is the 'silver' or grey they chose as a base paint. I could live with the tail, though I think its abit tacky and I wander how much of a pain it is to stripe the tail to paint it. The Silver paint should actually be a reflective silver giving homage to the metallic paint, I can still hear the commercial, "silver bird take me there........"

I shudder to think what the present colors will fade too, oh yeah, yes I can, just rememer the former NWA planes after a couple of years leaving the factory. Dull gray.

romeobravo · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:30 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 37):
Back then? You only joined on Feb 14th, over two weeks after the new livery was revealed.

I've read these forums for a long time. Nor is it the only place in the world where aviation is discussed.

[Edited 2013-03-28 11:31:35]

NWAROOSTER · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:44 pm

Quoting william (Reply 38):

My problem is the 'silver' or grey they chose as a base paint. I could live with the tail, though I think its abit tacky and I wander how much of a pain it is to stripe the tail to paint it. The Silver paint should actually be a reflective silver giving homage to the metallic paint, I can still hear the commercial, "silver bird take me there........"

I shudder to think what the present colors will fade too, oh yeah, yes I can, just remember the former NWA planes after a couple of years leaving the factory. Dull gray.

You must be referring to the "Bowling Shoe" or Woodpecker livery. The gray and the red both faded badly.
However the Silver Metallic livery Northwest Airlines used in its final paint livery was quit good. It, however, was very labor extensive to apply as it took several coats of a clear coat. That paint livery Northwest used with the American tittles and Eagle on the tail might a very stunning paint livery for the "NEW' American Airlines to use as most their aircraft would need to be painted in full without any bare metal present.

BlueSky1976 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:46 pm

Keep the silver, lose the tail. Someone posted a rendering of 77W with the new AA logo placed on the tail in place of the flag and it looked just perfect.

9w748capt · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 35):

Well,
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution... Nothing drastic, they can still pay whoever came up with the new CI but the tail is less colorfull yet shows the eagle (which I really like btw) and the "American" letters are chrome-polished as a salute to the good old AA days

Color me impressed! Maybe a little darker font to the "American" spanning the fuselage but that is light years ahead of what AA has now - awesome!

a3xx900 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 42):
Color me impressed! Maybe a little darker font to the "American" spanning the fuselage but that is light years ahead of what AA has now - awesome!

Came out a little lighter in color in the jpg than I had planned.

Thanks though!

flpuck6 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:01 pm

rj777,

I totally agree. I love the new updated eagle.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 3):
I think they should take the soaring eagle and put it on the tail. (As well as the winglets)

BOACCunard · Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:45 pm

I certainly wouldn't expect a full redesign, but it wouldn't be unprecedented for there to be some relatively minor changes.

The last time AA redesigned its branding, there was originally no eagle at all. AA employees demanded that the eagle be retained, but Massimo Vignelli (who designed the branding and livery) refused to add one, so AA had to have someone else design it.

Then, more recently, we had DL replace the soft widget with the traditional one, again because employees hated the change (though at least DL never got rid of the widget entirely).

UA changed the font on its post-merger branding, from retaining the same one CO used, though the original version was far from ever actually seeing the side of a real airplane.

And of course no one could forget BA's phasing out of the World Tails in favor of the Union Flag version. The new AA livery is uncontroversial in comparison.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
Wow... to get a CEO to even comment on something so trivial???

Branding is anything but trivial. OK, so it is not the most important thing an airline CEO has to deal with, but it's far from trivial. It's a key element of the public image of his (future) company.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 34):
Am I the only who doesn't find US's current scheme attractive?

I've never really understood the love for it. It's not bad, but it's really quite bland.

rikkus67 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:58 pm

Bland (but clean) fuselage, and overly busy tail. Separately, they are well done elements. Together, however, they are not cohesive. Here's hoping that manic tail is toned down somehow...

MesaFlyGuy · Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 28):

AMEN!

I saw it at JFK once on the 737 and I agree that the fuselage looks good. I like the lettering and the metallic silver paint. It is original and unique. But that tail.....wow. Too busy and not professional-looking. It looks like a poorly-thrown-together collage a six year old would make in art class for Memorial Day. And the fact that they took the stars off the flag does, has, and always will bother me.

The US livery, while a little bland, is sleek and classy. It catches the eye and works well on their planes. The AA livery does not (it catches your eye, but not for the same reason).

QANTASvJet · Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:05 pm

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 35):
if they consider redoing it, I might have a solution...

I was hoping one of you clever designer people would offer something like this.

It looks great - really turns things round completely. Also, it would be relatively cheap to implement, plus it would be a way in which the new management could convey a strong message - that they are willing to act quickly to address a problem, but that they have enough tact and good judgement to build on what others have done, rather than just throw it all away.

Would be great to get a campaign going to urge them to put the new logo on the tail and winglets, in just this sort of way. Twitter, facebook, anybody?

alfa164 · Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:09 pm

Quoting gkpetery (Reply 29):

Have you actually seen the livery in person? It is hideous - especially the stripes that continue from the taiul on down to the fuselage - and it looks very, very cheap. It might work for a cut-rate, no-frills carrier - that is what it looks like - but it is not a proper livery for American's "flagship fleet".

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