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Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 49):
Currently, I am sitting in the TK lounge in IST and outside I saw an IB A346 parked at the Northern end of the apron, jyst where TKs mx-area starts. Does anybody know why it's here?

Maybe the Real Madrid squad for the Champions League game on Tuesday?
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:45 am

Its certainly a shame if Comfort Class goes. It is a great product and as above gives people an alternative if they cant afford or justify J but want some extra space and comfort.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:38 pm

I was sad reading the Comfort Class news, I enjoyed flying in Comfort Class and had decided to fly only on CC on long hauls. Economy class seats in TK 777s and 330s are very tight, it is impossible for tall people to spend 10+ hours (LAX flights take 13-14 hours) in those seats.

Generally the business class seats are very expensive and CC gave us a great opportunity to have more space while flying.

- Air France has Premium economy with I think 38' seats.
- British airways have it in long haul routes
- KLM has it in long haul
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:25 pm

TK started Comfort class too big on planes, 63 seats. A new product may take time make money; at now it is started make money. They have to stay calm and not throw this product...
 
ytz
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 52):
I was sad reading the Comfort Class news,

What news?

I haven't seen any concrete news on them getting rid of CC.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:49 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 54):
I haven't seen any concrete news on them getting rid of CC.

Yesterday there was a post with the link but I think it got deleted.. So here it is, only in Turkish though

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...erleri/thyde-bir-donemin-sonu.html
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:06 pm

Fresh news from "Emrecan", link TK website;
TK orders 70+25 options of mix of 737s
20 x 738s, 65 x 738Max, 10 x 739Max
Deliveries between 2016-2021
http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-tr...kurumsal/yatirimci-iliskileri/2013 (Turkish Only)

[Edited 2013-04-09 05:43:27]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:53 am

TK getting 3 more flight simulators - A32x, 737NG and 777.
Will bring simulator count at the training center to 10.

http://atwonline.com/training/turkis...ining-center-adds-three-simulators

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:38 pm

-TK's Kuala Lumpur flights to start on April 25th 3 x weekly, to go to 4 x weekly on June 17th. Hope this time around it works out for TK.
-TK's latest 738 joined the fleet TC-JHS. Another 321 made its first flight to join shortly.

With the latest WB and NB orders, TK has more planes on order now that it currently flies. Crazy!
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:58 pm

Looking at another thread this disaster scenario comes to my mind;
Forget about TK getting rid of Comfort Class on the new batch of 77W;

-The Survey Says...
In 2010 only 15% of the 77W deliveries were 10-abreast
whereas
In 2012 69% of the 77W deliveries are 10-abreast.

If TK were to go in the way of AF/KL/EK and go to two class on the 77W;
by going down to 60" on the J seat from the current 78", TK can fit 42 seats in J
and going 3-4-3 seating on the remainder of the cabin, TK 77Ws will have;

42J and 385Y seats.

Let's not give them any ideas!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:10 pm

TK is working on yet another C class concept for the future 77W deliveries.

From what I have heard it will be more premium than today product and rival F class more. I think seeing the F class product on the Jet Airways leases left TK with some ideas. As C class product upgrades move fast in the industry I think TK want to have something that will remain top end for a while. Also should help TK continue to attracting an ever higher end traveler and hopefully lessen need to discount as much.

For Y class, I would not discount going 10 across. It has a very compelling business case, especially for carrier like TK that does not earn the strongest yields.

Regarding Comfort Class, I absolutely would hate to see it be cut. It was a well timed and excellent offering which brought TK many accolades, however it was configured with way too many seats from the start which left TK in a difficult spot with pricing and justifying the onboard floor space.
I can also understand the issues and complaints they have been getting from narrow body transfer passengers and those flying on routes with mixed equipment not having comfort on the 330/340 fleets.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
777way
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:59 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 58):
-TK's Kuala Lumpur flights to start on April 25th 3 x weekly, to go to 4 x weekly on June 17th. Hope this time around it works out for TK.

They are not dropping any destinations so it will more than likely work.
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
I can also understand the issues and complaints they have been getting from narrow body transfer passengers and those flying on routes with mixed equipment not having comfort on the 330/340 fleets.

I think there is another problem for TK 777 Comfort Class: When TK uses these planes for flights to ESB, ADB, DXB, JED, LHR, etc. they have a big problem! Probably Y passengers are seated in CC. This is not only loss of revenue but also a complain from other Y passengers who are sitting at the back.
The future is in the skies.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:55 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
For Y class, I would not discount going 10 across. It has a very compelling business case, especially for carrier like TK that does not earn the strongest yields.

With the current seat pitch of the TK 777s, it is not possible to make 10 abreast. TK has 31 and 32 inch seat pitch in their 777s, when you make this 17 inch seat width (10 abreast), average sized people will start to feel very uncomfortable, let alone the flights for these 777s are all above 10 hours, LAX nearing 14 hours.

The 10 abreast 777s have 33 or 34 inch seat pitch. Those airlines compensate 2 or 3 inches of leg room for 1 inch of seat width. In total, for the same amount of floor space, you get roughly the same amount of seats.

Check out Emirates vs TK's 77Ws. So it is either 10 with larger legroom, or 9 with tight legroom.

10 with tight legroom = charter quality flight
 
ASA
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 63):
he 10 abreast 777s have 33 or 34 inch seat pitch. Those airlines compensate 2 or 3 inches of leg room for 1 inch of seat width. In total, for the same amount of floor space, you get roughly the same amount of seats.

Check out Emirates vs TK's 77Ws. So it is either 10 with larger legroom, or 9 with tight legroom.

Very interesting - I did not know that!

So, little bit off the topic here, what is the strategy that guides the airlines to choose a 9 or 10-abreast seating if the total layout seat number does not change much? I mean, why doesn't EK use the seemingly more spacious 9 abreast seating like TK, QR, etc? Any long term benefits or plans to have 1-2 class scenarios, where a 10-abreast may give more yield?

Experts, thinkers, flamers ... please weigh in  
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:31 pm

There is no set rule about pitch in 9 vs 10 across. Airlines can pick what they want.

Also pitch is a dubious measure in reality. For example the newest set of thin line seats while 1-2-inches less actually provide more space for the passenger then older style seats with same floor spacing.

So 10-across does not need higher pitch numbers as some rule. 32inches using new seats is quite viable.

At the end there is a growing chorus for 10-across on the 777 (Air France, Air NZ, AA, Emirates, KLM, Etihad, TAM, Aeroflot, etc.. ) as the economics are quite compelling.
Even giving up one row of seats for those that want more pitch, having 30 added rows of 1-more seat adds up to nice bump in revenue potential.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 65):
There is no set rule about pitch in 9 vs 10 across. Airlines can pick what they want.

Also pitch is a dubious measure in reality. For example the newest set of thin line seats while 1-2-inches less actually provide more space for the passenger then older style seats with same floor spacing.

Whatever. You get the idea. Of course there is no set rule, this is not the constitution  

General industry practice (except for charter ops and planes like AF Caribbean 77Ws) is narrow seats-higher pitch, wider seats-tighter pitch
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:43 pm

I read part of the CED report ( Cevresel Etki Degerlendirme) on the 3rd. Istanbul report from airporthaber; http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...alimani-ced-raporu-yayimlandi.html
and very detailed report and I will point out some interesting stuff;
-1. Phase will have 2 pax and 1 Cargo runways with the main terminal and even though it is expected to be finished in 42 months, it shows to be in operation in late 2017, more likely in 2018.
2.Phase will include the 4th runway and another terminal by 2024
3.Phase will include the 5th runway and another terminal by 2031
4.Phase will include the 6th runway and another terminal by 2038

-5 of the runways will be North South direction, 1 runway in the East West direction.
-1 runway to be 4100m. x 60m, 4 runways to be 3750m x 60m and the last one to be 3500m x 60m.

Here is some crazy math: when calculating landings per runway... they use an average of 300pax a plane (they average it from A380 (850pax??) and 737 (150pax), but they take into account more 737s than 380s. Still 300 pax/plane??

150million pax divided by 365 days= 410,000 pax daily
410,000 pax/day divided by 300pax/plane = 1370 planes/day
1370 planes/day divided by 24 hours = 57 landings/hour (not taking into account rush hour)
Planning on 3 simultaneous runway operations and that means 19planes/hour/per runway.
Which means, 3mile separation or 100second separation; one landing every 3.15minutes.

Some other numbers;
-The new airport will be built at 105m. elevation. Right now the land elevation is somewhere between 160m and -37m.
Which means 2,500,000,000m3 of land fill. How many truck loads/trips is that?
-During construction they are planning on having 2000 trucks, 500 cars, 600 medium trucks. That will add to the traffic nearby.
-When completed they are expecting 100,000 cars to travel to the new airport daily and they are expecting a total of 850,000kg of garbage daily.


Here is a pic of the 4 Phases of Construction;

 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:48 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 67):

This project looks like an environmental disaster on its own. According to report, daily expected emission of exhaust gasses (both planes and cars) when full capacity are as follows:

CO : 53.225 kg/day
NOx : 32.470 kg/day
SOx : 96.300 kg/day

On an other note, Hamdi Topcu says that Houston flights already have a load factor of 93% and by june it is expected that no seat will be available:

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...udan-onemli-aciklamalar-43987.html (Turkish)
The future is in the skies.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:48 am

I flew IST-ESB yesterday and back. On the IST-ESB route, the flight showed an A333, and when checking in it was still an A333. I got on the bus and it stopped in front of a 77W !

15 minutes ago during the check in it was an A333 and changed to a 77W. Imagine the chaos when 250 passengers tried to board the plane randomly from the front and the back (the busses left people randomly and there was no one to guide on the ground) and inside the plane people going from all the way to the front from the very back of the plane. On top of that, some poeple didnt have their seats and in some seats double passengers were booked (the checkins were made according to an A333).

All the economy passengers were seated in the economy rows and comfort class was left completely empty.

In my opinion, TK is light years away from being a 5-Star airline. Albeit my small experience with 5 star airlines and some 4 star airlines, their service and quality level is so consistent that in a 100 flights you get always the same things. But TK needs to understand that service and quality is not buying new airplanes and serving good food (btw. which is getting worse and worse)
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 69):

Ha ha ha...
This genius way of boarding plane from front and the back at the same time without directing people is unaccaptable.
I have seen this before, but as an a.netter I know, seat 26D on a 738 is easily reachable from the back door. Most people have no idea, so in the middle of the plane one person trying to reach row 5 another get to the back. Crazy!
Where there is no rule of the law, there will be rule of the jungle.

What happens to the crew of the 77W. Now that they have done a short hop to ESB, they have to get back to IST. Give or take 3 hours on the clock and fly another 10+ hours????
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:34 pm

It is very common jump on mess after a long flight. Every Time without exception there is mess at the gate. Some people waiting strollers, some trying reach to wheelchair. There always some crowd of service staff waiting to enter to plane because they have to turn the plane in 90 minutes for another ER flight. Weird thing is passenger relations staff is no interest for passengers, they always busy with another thing. If you have missing stroller or some another issue you are deep in ocean no one will help you.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:43 pm

Latest results from TK: http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-fr...te/investor_relations/special/2013
16.04.2013
Traffic results for the period of January-March 2013 are as follows:
During the period of January-March 2013 total passenger carried has increased by 26%, reaching to 10 million passengers from 8 million passengers for the same period of 2012. Increase in number of passengers carried in domestic and international lines is 16% and 33%, respectively.
International Business/Comfort Class and Transfer passengers increased by 21% and 38%, respectively for the same period.
L/F increased by 5,1 point to 77,9%.
ASK with 21% increase reached to 25 bn during the period January-March 2013 from 20.6 bn for the same period of 2012. Increase in ASK in domestic and international lines is 14% and 22%, respectively.
RPK with 30% increase reached to 19.5 bn during the period of January-March 2013 from 15 bn for the same period of 2012. Increase in RPK in domestic and international lines is 17% and 32%, respectively.
Number of landing 64.360 for the period of January-March 2012 has increased to 77.901 in 2013 (21%).
During the period January-March 2013, number of destinations has increased by 15%, reaching to 219 from 191 for the same period in 2012.
Cargo/Mail carried during the period of January-March 2013 reached to 122.932 tons from 108.252 tons in 2012 (+14).
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:30 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 69):

Today I had a day return trip as ESB-SAW-ESB. In the morning on TK and late afternoon return flight on Anadolujet, all operated by XQ.

Compared to TK stuff, I must admit that XQ FAs are much more good looking, relaxed and smiling, though they are said to be paid less than half.

Moreover I also feel like XQ pilots are flying softer on IST/SAW-ESB sector. I mean TK pilots are like kamikaze compared to XQ (sorry if I offended anybody). (Most likely) This is just to my perception due to never ending stress level on TK operations.
The future is in the skies.
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 73):
though they are said to be paid less than half.

Does anyone know how much TK pays its pilots and cabin crew?
 
NuD38
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:03 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 74):
Does anyone know how much TK pays its pilots and cabin crew?

This might give you a clue about senior pilot wages:
"Pilots with Mr. Ennis's experience earn $230,000 a year and qualify for a pension of $10,000 a month if they retire at age 60. At Turkish Airlines, it is estimated that he will earn $150,000 annually."

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/globe-i...top/article1939277/?service=mobile
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:55 am

Are TK 332/333/343 pilots certified to also operate the 330 freighter or are the pax and cargo ops/scheduling different?
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:02 am

Quoting NuD38 (Reply 75):

Wow... that's really good then! Thanks.
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:22 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 76):
Are TK 332/333/343 pilots certified to also operate the 330 freighter or are the pax and cargo ops/scheduling different?

I know a 330 pilot who does both pax and cargo...
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
NuD38
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:51 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 69):
15 minutes ago during the check in it was an A333 and changed to a 77W

I believe this is a bigger issue than just having 5*. My idea is that TK had a system issue which did not show the correct assignment. Switching from A333 to 77W cannot be done in 15 minutes. Indeed, this should be planned a few days/weeks earlier. Crew scheduling, maintenance requirements etc...
 
ytz
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:26 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 55):
Yesterday there was a post with the link but I think it got deleted.. So here it is, only in Turkish though

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili....html
Quoting TK105 (Reply 62):
I think there is another problem for TK 777 Comfort Class: When TK uses these planes for flights to ESB, ADB, DXB, JED, LHR, etc. they have a big problem! Probably Y passengers are seated in CC. This is not only loss of revenue but also a complain from other Y passengers who are sitting at the back.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
I can also understand the issues and complaints they have been getting from narrow body transfer passengers and those flying on routes with mixed equipment not having comfort on the 330/340 fleets.

My takeaway from that is the biggest complaint happens when there is equipment change or when passengers change aircraft at transit. And to some extent having been a CC pax last year I can understand the complaint. I got great treament from YYZ to IST with CC. And then I got on a more cramped 330 in Y to BOM. I knew this at the time of booking. But I can see how some passengers might not realize that when booking and feel it was bait and switch when there's not CC for some leg of the flight.

To me, this does not mean they should be cutting CC. It means they should be rolling out across the entire long haul fleet to improve consistency of their product offering.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
Regarding Comfort Class, I absolutely would hate to see it be cut. It was a well timed and excellent offering which brought TK many accolades, however it was configured with way too many seats from the start which left TK in a difficult spot with pricing and justifying the onboard floor space.

Are load factors really that bad in CC? We are talking less than 20% of the seats. On my trip over Christmas 2011/2012, I saw that cabin as virtually sold out in both directions. I'd be curious to know which routes they have issues selling Y+ on. I'm due to fly in a few weeks on TK in CC again. I'll do a quick headcount when I get the chance.

For me anyway, if CC ditches Y+, I'll have less of a reason to travel with TK. That's for sure. There's lots of competition in the Y pool.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
For Y class, I would not discount going 10 across. It has a very compelling business case, especially for carrier like TK that does not earn the strongest yields.

For sure. I would hope though that TK stays with 9-abreast and goes to 10-abreast when they get the 777-X.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:19 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 80):
Are load factors really that bad in CC?

I've done 8 CC segments in the last 11 months and seldom it is full or looks full. I would say an average of 60% load on my flights, mostly betweeen JFK-IST.
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:02 am

Removal of CC is a very wrong decision for TK. If they would have a consistent product throughout their fleet they would not take this decision. They should revise the plan, downsize the CC cabin, add more to C class and try to harmonize all wide body a/c with the new lay out.

All major competitors of TK like BA, AF and LH (LH decided to launch Y+) offer Y+ of course in no way comparable to TK's level of in flight service so TK should as I said revisit this decision. Never too late !!!
 
radiopolitic
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:19 am

My father flies TK CC YYZ-IST and back maybe 8 times a year and says its always 90% full at a minimum. I think the YYZ-IST sector is consistently full but there are other routes where it isn't as utilized.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:12 am

The new flight IST-SCQ-IST (3xw) starting in May is going to be merged with BIO (4xw) from W13 (IST-BIO-SCQ-BIO-IST) going daily.
 
vincewy
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:32 am

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 82):
Removal of CC is a very wrong decision for TK.

Maybe I missed the update but has this been officially announced yet (removal)? For the same reason I've been scrambling to rack up miles to get to Elite Plus this year.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:45 am

Regarding CC bookings, remember TK has had a hard time finding the optimal price point for the cabin and has had to discount it compared to its original plans.
Also CC is often available at check-in for mere €200 more, so just because its full at departure time does not mean TK made much money on the space unfortunately.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:58 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 84):

Is this to reduce congestion at Istanbul or are these routes not performing as expected?
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:46 am

Whenever I was in CC, it was packed. Either full or above 90%.

My opinion about CC is that TK should reduce the number of seats, say, from 63 to 40, but put CC seats in every type in the fleet. Even in the domestic 737s and 320s. For the narrowbody planes, it could be only a single row of seats with larger legroom and the same seats as others in the plane. It is not hard to fill 6 seats in a narrowbody and it would make the entire fleet consistent. Then, CC can be recognized as a brand and people would book it without a doubt in their mind if they will end up in economy. It is all about consistency, consistency and consistency.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:36 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 86):
Also CC is often available at check-in for mere €200 more, so just because its full at departure time does not mean TK made much money on the space unfortunately.

It could also be that due to overbooking, economy passengers could be upgraded to CC.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:07 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 89):
It could also be that due to overbooking, economy passengers could be upgraded to CC.

And if you have the seats to move people to in CC class, it means you were not selling those CC seats to being with. That is the problem.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:17 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 88):
but put CC seats in every type in the fleet. Even in the domestic 737s and 320s.

From a business stand point, it makes much more sense to get rid of CC from 12 planes and go to a 2-class airline. And few years later to realize a segment in the market and bring it back.
 
umit
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:25 pm

When I looked the management of TK on what they have done in last several years , their pros are more then cons. Therefore , whatever they decide it would probably be the good one .
 
777way
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:53 pm

TK have sponsored weather updates at a local private news channel here, its showing a TK aircraft flying between different destinations each marked with TK logo, when its lands at the place the weather info pops up.

[Edited 2013-04-18 11:56:43]
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:53 pm

Anybody has information about LH MUC-ESB and FRA-ESB flight statistics? I do not know if it is possible to get below information but any input will be appreciated:

- Total number of passengers
- Percentage of connecting traffic and where to
- Percentage of Turkish and non Turkish passengers
- Percentage of EU citizens
The future is in the skies.
 
ytz
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RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 91):
From a business stand point, it makes much more sense to get rid of CC from 12 planes and go to a 2-class airline. And few years later to realize a segment in the market and bring it back.

How does that make sense?

LH is considering Y+. Air Canada is dipping its toe in the water. British Airways, Virign, Air France, etc. all have great Premium Economy products.

I don't see how it's sensible for TK to give up the brand strength it has in this sector and then fight to re-establish it later.

TK needs to improve consistency across its product. Doing that by taking away service is not going to win it any accolades.
 
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TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4538
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:05 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 95):
How does that make sense?

It doesn't. But TK is thinking about getting rid of CC 2-3 years after offering it. Trial-Error, changing world economy, other factors....
TK leased 9W 77Ws first, then ordered its own 12 frames. Less then two years later leases the same 9W 77Ws, while ordering more 77Ws.
See the pattern? Constantly adjusting their business plan, whatever makes sense at the time.
In a perfect world, TK would have ordered more than 12 x 77Ws the first time, and had more J seats, less CC seats in them, marketed/priced CC better and kept going with that plan. But I guess in real business life, TK constantly adjusts products even it hurts their brand and things are not consistent inside the fleet. Most important for TK is their bottom line.

So, it is not farfetched to think, they get rid of CC in the near future to increase profits, and might come back with it when they figure out a better scenario.
 
northstar80
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:06 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 95):
LH is considering Y+. Air Canada is dipping its toe in the water. British Airways, Virign, Air France, etc. all have great Premium Economy products.

Agreed. One good thing about their solid business plan is that they have it almost in their entire fleet.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 96):
See the pattern?

I see poor planning or failure to anticipate their growth. One cannot, for example, imagine EK making such a mistake.

They are leasing, simply because, they didn't plan well for growth. And now they are going to allow their leased aircraft dictate product across the board? Seems like poor decision-making to me.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 96):
So, it is not farfetched to think, they get rid of CC in the near future to increase profits, and might come back with it when they figure out a better scenario.

That's based on an assumption that they'll sell all the extra J and/or Y seats they'll get from ditching the CC cabin.
 
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ankaraflyjet
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation April 2013

Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 98):

I can't agree more, well said.

Very unprofessional approach to fleet and product planning. Yes, airlines can take advantage of last minute deals in a/c leasing but this became a customary habit for TK, this is not a charter airline for God sake, more consistent and well managed business plan please !!!!

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