JetBlue To Finally Announce ORH Service

mbk1999 · Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:05 pm

Looks like the big day has finally arrived....

http://www.worcestermag.com/blogs/da...&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

Pretty sure they're not going there to open up a new Starbucks

globetrotter29 · Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:27 pm

Good for Worcester and B6, I wish them both success.

MaverickM11 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:14 am

Wow, I don't know what's more of a Hail Mary, B6 announcing ORH or Penair announcing BOS ISP.

adamh8297 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:51 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

Well both Pen Air are B6 are getting incentives for this so neither...

Pen Air BOS-ISP = A fifth round draft pick that may be servicable

B6 ORH-??? (most likely MCO or FLL) = letting the third string QB play during preseason

spinkid · Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:51 am

I don't know. Governor's have shown up for stranger things. That article seems filled with lots of conjecture.

I'd be surprised to see jetBlue offering service there, unless they are getting lots of incentives, then you might see some service to FLL and MCO.

Jerseyguy · Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:52 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Wow, I don't know what's more of a Hail Mary, B6 announcing ORH or Penair announcing BOS ISP.

I'm pretty sure this has to do with bartering with Massport

Sligo · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:06 am

I hope it's true and I like Bill's blog; but he's not exactly a solid source in this particular article.

But here's hoping it's true!

bomber996 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:22 am

There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

What kind of things is B6 gona get from Massport at BOS besides C to themselves?

Peace

bluejuice · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:27 am

G4 has plenty of blue in their livery.

MaverickM11 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
Well both Pen Air are B6 are getting incentives for this so neither...

I would hope so. If they're already losing money in BOS the idea of flooding the neighborhood with capacity isn't a good one.

RDUCO · Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:07 am

PEX has a blue livery too

deltairlines · Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:10 am

Would highly expect ORH to be announced tomorrow. Guessing FLL/MCO.

[Edited 2013-04-02 20:23:39]

BOStonsox · Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:45 am

I spoke with a B6 flight attendant and he said that ORH and 3x BOS-LGA were on the way. Worcester deserves to get B6 service. While it is a city bus, there is the #19 bus to Union Station where the intercity bus terminal is as well as the commuter rail station to Boston and other destinations in the MetroWest Area.

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

I would hope not. Other carriers have served all seven of the major New England airports before, why can't they now?

BA744PHX · Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:30 am

well ORH is loading on Jetblue's drop down menu however flights are not

airbazar · Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:46 am

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

I don't think the two have any correlation. MHT would make money for B6. ORH won't make a dime for B6, and will go away before you can spell "failure". As others pointed out, there must be an ulterior motive. Once B6 gets what it wants from Massport they will leave ORH.

JBAirwaysFan · Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:53 pm

Good for ORH, but I can't imagine them not starting DAB if they're going into ORH. Even if ORH will be subsidized I can't see them passing over DAB yet going into ORH where no other commercial service exists at the moment.

Hopefully this one of a few new domestic stations JetBlue announces this year.

chrisnh · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:06 pm

I don't believe that JetBlue to Worcester means 'No' for Manchester. The two have no correlation, except to thoroughly embarrass MHT officials who now run the only airport in New England (aside from Bangor) without JetBlue service. More damning: Only one New England state without JetBlue service: New Hampshire.

In the end, this is all about leverage for JetBlue at Logan. In exchange for serving Worcester, JetBlue will get favorable treatment at BOS. But AA tried this trick and left after it failed. But the difference between AA and B6 is that one airline cares and invests in Boston while the other doesn't.

This is a 'Bad Hair Day' for the folks running MHT because they will have to answer the question: Why them and not us?

NASBWI · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:07 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
ORH won't make a dime for B6, and will go away before you can spell "failure". As others pointed out, there must be an ulterior motive.

I could be wrong, but wasn't SWF part of a 'package' with PANYNJ for B6 to gain more access to NYC airports? SWF used to see more flying, but is down to 1x daily FLL and 2x daily MCO flights, and I'm guessing that it doesn't make much money for them, yet it hasn't been axed...Perhaps the same will be said of ORH (should it be a reality): B6 may offer token service there, that'd be subsidized by MassPort.

icebird757 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:07 pm

ORH will be seeing blue E190's.

shadez · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:27 pm

1x daily to FLL and MCO is now bookable beginning Nov 7

globetrotter29 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:40 pm

Wow, their introductory fares are $56 one way.

chrisnh · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting globetrotter29 (Reply 20):
Wow, their introductory fares are $56 one way.

If you want to come home, that's where they nail you

John · Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:58 pm

My opinion, foolish move for many reasons. Many airlines have tried and failed. ORH is always fog prone with runway visibility issues. Flights will end up diverting to PVD anyway, probably several times a month. Concentrate on establishing the PVD market.

RL757PVD · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:03 pm

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years.

I dont think it shuts out MHT at all. More now than ever, airports are serving their own markets, and ORH in itself is certainly not a priority for B6 (ALB and ISP on their own are much better candidates) but if Massport starts doing favors for you by moving airlines around so you can get your own terminal...you need to return the favor.

1x each on an E190 is a fairly small token

MHT may be more than a couple years off, but certainly still within the 5 year picture in my opinion, but the market demand will need to support A320s so it can have the viable self-sustaining service that ORH is not.

werdywerd · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:08 pm

Official Press Release:

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1802982&highlight=

Quote:

JetBlue Announces its 80th City: Worcester, Massachusetts!

-- Daily service to Fort Lauderdale and Orlando take flight November 7, 2013 --
-- Customers can book sale fares one way from $60 to Orlando and from $70 to Fort Lauderdale today through April 10, 2013 at www.jetblue.com/new for travel between Nov. 8 and Dec. 17, 2013 (blackout dates apply) (a) --
NEW YORK, April 3, 2013 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq: JBLU) today announces the newest addition to its growing network, Worcester, Massachusetts. Service to the airline's 80th city will take flight on Thursday, November 7, 2013 with daily service to Fort Lauderdale and Orlando, Florida.

loggat · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:09 pm

I thought I also read that the ORH tower is being closed due to the sequester too. So in inclimate weather, it should make things interesting. I wonder if that will be the only airport that B6 will operate in to that won't have an operating control tower? I learned to fly out of ORH so I know what a ghost town airport it is, but I also know that when the snow/ice rolls in, it's a lot easier to get field condition reports from an ATC tower, versus Joe Blow in a pickup truck.

chrisnh · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:13 pm

A small 'FAIL' by JetBlue: They flew an A320 to Worcester this morning instead of the E190 that will be used there.

As has been pointed out many times by the 'power-brokers' in Worcester: The community needs to support these flights, not only at 'convenient' periods like school vacations...but year-round. Granted, Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale are 'vacation' destinations so the spotlight will be on the airport to see what Worcester does with those flights. I'm sure 'spotters' will go to the terminal on random, non-holiday periods and count the people getting on and off those flights. Don't count on Massport or JetBlue to divulge that information. I would think that FAA web sites ought to make that information available under 'freedom of information' requests. And if not and all else fails, people will do 'spot checks' to keep everyone honest. No way you can claim 90% LF if only 45 people get on and off those E190s.

MaverickM11 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:18 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 16):
But the difference between AA and B6 is that one airline cares and invests in Boston while the other doesn't.

Please, BOS chose the cheapest fare as they always do, and B6 is the only one that can afford to take the cheap traffic, and even they've admitted BOS loses money. DL invested in BOS--how'd that work out?

RL757PVD · Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:20 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 26):
A small 'FAIL' by JetBlue: They flew an A320 to Worcester this morning instead of the E190 that will be used there.

That was probably intentional as opposed to a "fail"

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 26):
I would think that FAA web sites ought to make that information available under 'freedom of information' requests. And if not and all else fails, people will do 'spot checks' to keep everyone honest. No way you can claim 90% LF if only 45 people get on and off those E190s.

You cant fake passenger numbers like that due to the way taxes and things like PFCs get calculated.

jfklganyc · Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 17):

I could be wrong, but wasn't SWF part of a 'package' with PANYNJ for B6 to gain more access to NYC airports? SWF used to see more flying, but is down to 1x daily FLL and 2x daily MCO flights, and I'm guessing that it doesn't make much money for them, yet it hasn't been axed...Perhaps the same will be said of ORH (should it be a reality): B6 may offer token service there, that'd be subsidized by MassPort.

Not quite. But Chuck Schumner asked them to serve SWF...and they were pretty indebted to him. So they did it. I notice, Chucky-boy is trying to get ISP...but B6 drew the line there.

They had to serve BUF, ROC, SYR, and BTV for the JFK slots. Ironically, all are very profitable for them.

I agree that ORH is likely a mistake.

And a mistake in the routes too. They would likely lose less money with 2 daily 190 service to JFK...and still capture the same traffic.

I would have used some off peak slots and done that.

Sligo · Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:47 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
And a mistake in the routes too. They would likely lose less money with 2 daily 190 service to JFK...and still capture the same traffic.

Agree, they're going for 100% O&D leisure and presumably using their particular assumptions plus the Allegiant stats as the basis for the justification. It never ceases to amaze how common sense can be trumped by the existence of data in the route planning world.

Better in the long run would be to open up the whole B6 network through JFK which would draw leisure and business travelers who find connecting in T5 to be far more pleasurable than driving back and forth to BOS. Once loyalty is built around the network, adding O&Ds to Florida become easier to fill.

airbazar · Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 17):
I could be wrong, but wasn't SWF part of a 'package' with PANYNJ for B6 to gain more access to NYC airports? SWF used to see more flying, but is down to 1x daily FLL and 2x daily MCO flights, and I'm guessing that it doesn't make much money for them, yet it hasn't been axed...Perhaps the same will be said of ORH (should it be a reality): B6 may offer token service there, that'd be subsidized by MassPort.

There are significant differences though. SWF is 70 miles from the nearest airport while ORH is 45 miles from BOS. SWF as easy access, ORH doesn't. Most of the potential passengers for ORH are likely to NOT live in Worcester, putting them a lot closer to BOS than the 45 miles mentioned above. On top of all, Worcester was the snowiest city in the country this past Winter. That ought to contribute to some unreliable service not to mention passengers not being able to get to the airport for their flights.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 30):
Better in the long run would be to open up the whole B6 network through JFK which would draw leisure and business travelers who find connecting in T5 to be far more pleasurable than driving back and forth to BOS.

Driving to/from BOS, from the West is not nearly as bad as from the North and South. And if you consider that the large catchment area is actually East of Worcester along the 495 belt, then driving to ORH won't create a huge time savings when compared to driving to BOS. That in a nutshell is why ORH has never been able to retain any significant air service.

Sligo · Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:25 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 31):
driving to ORH won't create a huge time savings when compared to driving to BOS. That in a nutshell is why ORH has never been able to retain any significant air service.

Yes, the drive comparison has always been debatable with the lack of an ORH access road always coming up sooner or later. But even with the lack of access road and even with the new tunnels to BOS of the past 10 years, ORH has a good, discrete population to market to b/c of the drive is easier for a million or two people..esp at rush hours, the cost of parking, the easy-in/easy-out nature of ORH, and the fact that it has a very nice terminal.

There is enough of a market there that would be willing to fly from ORH regularly if it had real, consistent service with sufficient frequency at a decent fare. Allegiant or Direct Air or even B6 2x to Florida will not reverse the leakage to BOS in any significant way and that's too bad.

flyby519 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:18 pm

1x Daily to MCO/FLL E190

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblu...s-worcester-florida-150404282.html

werdywerd · Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:29 pm

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDgHr...hare&list=UUWvqb5Oore0-h3HcC1CL_Qg

knope2001 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 26):
I would think that FAA web sites ought to make that information available under 'freedom of information' requests. And if not and all else fails, people will do 'spot checks' to keep everyone honest. No way you can claim 90% LF if only 45 people get on and off those E190s.

You cant fake passenger numbers like that due to the way taxes and things like PFCs get calculated.

Onboard passenger loads are a matter of public record and are released monthly with about an 80 day lag time.

N766UA · Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

No kidding. I'd much rather drive to MHT than ORH, too, unless I lived south/west of… idk, Framingham.

Maybe MHT would siphon away too many Logan travelers.

chrisnh · Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
No kidding. I'd much rather drive to MHT than ORH, too, unless I lived south/west of… idk, Framingham.

Maybe MHT would siphon away too many Logan travelers.

Actually, I think this bodes well for MHT. As many have said, MHT isn't a matter of 'if' but 'when.'

The supposed 'obstacles' to coming here are being knocked down one by one:

1.) "MHT is too close to Boston; JetBlue doesn't want to cannibalize their traffic." Uhhh..PVD and now Worcester
2.) "JetBlue doesn't want to go where Southwest is." Uhhh...BOS, PVD, BDL, PWM etc. etc. etc.

In fact, as I said earlier, they will make a bigger splash with MHT because it will then represent something that Southwest cannot claim: Service to all six New England states. If JetBlue gets to MHT before Southwest gets to BTV, that trophy is theirs.

contrails15 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:52 pm

Ah, thats why there was a ferry going up there today.

stlgph · Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:53 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 28):
That was probably intentional as opposed to a "fail"

Very intentional. the A320 is much more tv camera "on board" friendly than an E190.

MesaFlyGuy · Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:24 pm

Quoting werdywerd (Reply 34):

Love thee video! Having family up in NE has made me learn how to pronounce those kinda things

VS11 · Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting werdywerd (Reply 34):
Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDgHr...hare&list=UUWvqb5Oore0-h3HcC1CL_Qg

Great video! Very nice way to introduce the new destination - hope it works out.

centralma · Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:19 am

I was on a flight one of the first days Northwest started flying to ORH. I remember the PA announcement..."welcome on board flight (xxx) with nonstop service to..(click, pause, click) nonstop service to... ( click, pause, click) well, you know where we are going."

I knew i was flying to ORH just by listening to the accents of the passengers.

I also remember an outgoing flight from ORH to the west coast where we never took off from the first airport on my ticket, the next 3 airports were not on my ticket, and my bag reached Los Angeles at least 8 hours before I did....fog at ORH and bused to BOS, with bags handled more efficiently than passengers.

ORH is supposed to be getting a new taxiway and a Cat III ILS. Parking was readily available (even free, i think) in the 80s, even now that would be a big draw over BOS and even PVD.

cloudboy · Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:29 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
No kidding. I'd much rather drive to MHT than ORH, too, unless I lived south/west of… idk, Framingham.

Maybe MHT would siphon away too many Logan travelers.

I am assuming then that most of us are really just some shared hallucination, or that we are FAR too uncultured to fly anywhere?

There is a huge catchment area for ORH. It is pretty dead central, and if prices are cheaper than flying out of BOS, then leisure travelers will give it a shot. Parking may not be free - but then again it very well might be, staffing is, shall we say, inconsistent at the collection booths even when they do have flights.

Worcester itself is pretty well connected, between the pike, 290/395 and 190. The last few miles are the challenge and I agree does need to be addressed. Perhaps a regularly scheduled airline might be the tipping point it needs to get that done.

zrs70 · Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:13 am

Interesting diagram of ORH's airline history:

http://www.telegram.com/assets/pdf/WT17668313.PDF

airbazar · Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:05 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 43):
There is a huge catchment area for ORH. It is pretty dead central, and if prices are cheaper than flying out of BOS, then leisure travelers will give it a shot. Parking may not be free - but then again it very well might be, staffing is, shall we say, inconsistent at the collection booths even when they do have flights.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 32):
There is enough of a market there that would be willing to fly from ORH regularly if it had real, consistent service with sufficient frequency at a decent fare. Allegiant or Direct Air or even B6 2x to Florida will not reverse the leakage to BOS in any significant way and that's too bad.

No one has been willing to fly from ORH for years. The market can't possibly be that good. Just about everyone agrees that B6 is getting something in return for starting service to ORD. They're not doing it because they think they can make money or because they think that there is a market. If that was the case they would have started service a long time ago, or someone else would have. The bottom line is this is politics. Re-instating commercial air service at ORH is something that the governor needed to check off his campaign donors list. It's as simple as that. This won't last.

bobnwa · Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:09 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I would hope so. If they're already losing money in BOS the idea of flooding the neighborhood with capacity isn't a good one.

Are you saying that B6 is currently losing money in BOS?

B6JFKH81 · Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:26 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 46):
Are you saying that B6 is currently losing money in BOS?

Based on the Analyst Day call held a few weeks ago, it was. However, that is expected when you expand at such a high rate in one city as we did in BOS.

The Analyst Day presentation is on the webstie, and I think there may be a recorded version of the call itself here:

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....=irol-EventDetails&EventId=4929546

adamh8297 · Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 47):

From looking at the presentation slides - B6 was in the black in BOS for 2009, 2010 but trending down that year, lost money in 2011 and rebounded sharply in 2012.

jfklganyc · Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:42 pm

That is when they shifted strategy in BOS. It seems like it effected them badly. BOS used to biggy back JFK when they opened a new city. Then, in an attempt to capture business traffic, they started adding high frequency routes out of BOS to close in cities. I have said for a while, they are bloodbaths.

I think B6 should be content to expand smartly. They are not Delta.

Did they need 16 flights a day from BOS to DCA? Couldn't they grab a piece of the market with 5? And to all the people that tell me management says DCA is profitable...look at the loads and look at the fares. They are taking a bath. Same with BWI. Same with PHL coming up.

Their DFW approach has been better. 3 flights a day. Build up a token (yet profitable) presence on the route

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