nitepilot79
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Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:03 am

Why are the winglets featured on some Airbuses called "sharklets"? Is it just a name, or is there something that sets them apart from traditional winglets?
 
AA737-823
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:33 am

The Airbus marketing machine decided that "sharklets" was catchy.
And it is.

Meanwhile, the Boeing marketing machine was promising, like, totally, OMG, a billion 787's in service by the end of 2009, so things could have gone worse for Airbus! "Sharklets," while silly, is certainly not the worst example of a marketing department gone wild!
 
hb88
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:01 am

It does seem to have worked from a marketing point of view. The media have a catchy name which distinguishes other winglets and it is now firmly associated with Airbus.

It's like any 'brand' in aerospace - jumbo-jet, dream-liner etc etc which to some people might sound dumb and in some cases ill-advised, but over time becomes synonymous with a particular product.

Distinguishing something which is technically different from similar products, but visually superficially similar, is quite difficult.
 
ghifty
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:03 am

Product differentiation, though they are the same thing. An Audi is, in it's most basic sense, a car, just as a BMW is..

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
Meanwhile, the Boeing marketing machine was promising

Meanwhile, APB has sold a nice handful of winglets. And 737 MAX. And sold 787's to airlines despite the fleet being grounded. Etc.
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nitepilot79
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):

The Airbus marketing machine decided that "sharklets" was catchy.

Since this is an act of marketing, solely by Airbus, is it outlandish to imagine that name "sharklet" will be trademarked at some point?
 
RubberJungle
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:26 am

My understanding is that a certain senior Airbus executive wanted to call them "eaglets".
 
AA737-823
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:03 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 3):
Meanwhile, APB has sold a nice handful of winglets. And 737 MAX. And sold 787's to airlines despite the fleet being grounded. Etc.

Yes, the winglets sold on their own, without any tacky marketing; the 737MAX is selling well (nearly as well as the A320NEO), without any tacky marketing; the 787 certainly sold well, the problem is that the engineering team couldn't keep up with the outrageous promises made by the marketing whack-jobs.

Quoting nitepilot79 (Reply 4):
Since this is an act of marketing, solely by Airbus, is it outlandish to imagine that name "sharklet" will be trademarked at some point?

Who knows; Airbus is a bit more media/publicity-centric organization than Boeing was in the past (though with Randy's blog, that's changing... sort of), so maybe they'll see fit to trademark it and make a bigger deal out of it.

The way I see it, Airbus has now caught up to where Boeing was... fifteen years ago.
Granted, they had their wingtip fences, which, for the longest time, they said were better than the APB winglets. Odd, given that they've now gone with blended winglets...

But- I just sit in my armchair, laughing at both manufacturers.
 
pugman211
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:48 am

Does anyone know how to tell if an A320 is a sharklet ready aircraft if it has the standard wingtip fences on?
 
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Aesma
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:17 pm

Actually the Aviation Partners Boeing devices are called "blended winglet", and that's trademarked.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 7):
Does anyone know how to tell if an A320 is a sharklet ready aircraft if it has the standard wingtip fences on?

by searching for the aircraft msn. If it's after a certain production number it is fitted. I think I saw on here somewhere it's like 4400 or there abouts
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:04 pm

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 7):
Does anyone know how to tell if an A320 is a sharklet ready aircraft if it has the standard wingtip fences on?

Maybe old news, I read that Jetblue have ordered 110 sharklets to retrofit 55 A320s 
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
pugman211
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:16 pm

Sorry, I should have been clearer about what I meant. I can look at an A320 family aircraft wing and tell by looking at the wingtip join if its a sharklet wing or not.

I was referring to ground crews/mechs if they could knew how to distinguish whether an aircraft is a sharklet version or not. And yes, currently all new A320/A319 are sharklets, but possibly some A321's are still standard.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:22 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
The way I see it, Airbus has now caught up to where Boeing was... fifteen years ago.

15 years ago the 737 was already 30 years old, now the A320 is only 25 years old.

I just looked at airbus website and saw "Sharklets™" so it is indeed trademarked.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
rfields5421
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting nitepilot79 (Thread starter):
Why are the winglets featured on some Airbuses called "sharklets"? Is it just a name, or is there something that sets them apart from traditional winglets?

There were several threads on this a few years ago.

The name "Winglets" and "Blended Winglets" related to aircraft are trademarks of the company which supplies them to Boeing. That company will not sell the physical devices to Airbus and will not sell rights to use their "Winglets" trademarks.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
The Airbus marketing machine decided that "sharklets" was catchy.

Airbus had to come up with some other name than "Winglets"

Sharklets isn't the best, but certainly the worst name they could have chosen - in my opinion.



The whole deal is a completely normal part of competitive marketing and product naming in any field. It certainly isn't limited to A & B.

The bigger issue than the name was several patents which Airbus had to work around / avoid using the technology protected in the patents. Again - a completely normal part of business - Boeing came to the large passenger market first with the winglet technology, so keeping their competition for using their exact product is normal.
 
lostsound
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:11 pm

How many threads does it take to answer this question?

It's all about marketing. That's the end all be all answer lol.
 
IBOAviator
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:49 pm

Quoting lostsound (Reply 14):
How many threads does it take to answer this question?

It's all about marketing. That's the end all be all answer lol.

      Someone I'm sure can provide the link (I can't find it) but I know I've read more than one thread dedicated to the naming of Airbus's "sharklets."

Lostsound is right. Marketing and because Airbus couldn't come across as copying Boeing's Winglet's name/idea.  

>>IBO
Keep Calm and Go Around!
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:52 pm

They are called Sharklets because wingtip fences version 2.0 is way too long and doesn´t look good on pamphlets !!!

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
ferminbrif
Posts: 108
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:57 pm

Hi everybody!!
Regarding winglets or sharklets or whatever you call it, I have had a technical doubt for a while. Please somebody help me:
Is it correct or wrong to say that F4 phantom was the 1st aircraft using winglets or sharklets or whatever the marketing department decide to call it???.
Thanks in advance.
FBF
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:06 pm

Quoting hb88 (Reply 2):
It does seem to have worked from a marketing point of view. The media have a catchy name which distinguishes other winglets and it is now firmly associated with Airbus.

Several respected aviation industry media sources are refusing to use the ridiculous "sharklets" name, or they may use it once (in quotes) and then stick to the generic "winglets" in all further references.
 
flightsimer
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 13):
The name "Winglets" and "Blended Winglets" related to aircraft are trademarks of the company which supplies them to Boeing. That company will not sell the physical devices to Airbus and will not sell rights to use their "Winglets" trademarks.

Winglets are not Trademarked by API, Blended Winglet is however. And API did take their Blended Winglets to Airbus and they were even fitted to a JetBlue A320 in the 2009 time frame IIRC. However, Airbus decided to build their winglet in house.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
n7371f
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
Meanwhile, the Boeing marketing machine was promising, like, totally, OMG, a billion 787's in service by the end of 2009, so things could have gone worse for Airbus! "Sharklets," while silly, is certainly not the worst example of a marketing department gone wild!

What's this?!?! How does it have anything to do with the post?
 
n7371f
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:30 am

Maybe they should be called Blended Winglets since APB is suing Airbus for patent infringement. I mean can you tell the difference?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:34 am

Quoting solnabo (Reply 10):

Yupp, N821JB is already refitted and frequents on the JFK-SFO route showing them off.

[Edited 2013-04-08 20:35:44]
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
IBOAviator
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:34 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 16):
They are called Sharklets because wingtip fences version 2.0 is way too long and doesn´t look good on pamphlets !!!

TRB

Thank you for my daily LOL  
Keep Calm and Go Around!
 
rickabone
Posts: 158
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:40 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 3):
Product differentiation, though they are the same thing. An Audi is, in it's most basic sense, a car, just as a BMW is..

More like how Mercedes uses the term "Kompressor" for a supercharger. Even though that's just essentially the translation of a supercharger into German, it has become common in other languages. A supercharger serves the same purpose, but in a slightly different way as a turbocharger much as Sharklets serve the same purpose, but in the case of Airbus, look slightly different from generic winglets.
 
nitepilot79
Topic Author
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:16 am

Quoting lostsound (Reply 14):
How many threads does it take to answer this question?

My topic search came up with nothing. Maybe a glitch? I don't know. I clicked on the magnifying glass and nothing even remotely close came up.
 
swallow
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:49 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
The way I see it, Airbus has now caught up to where Boeing was... fifteen years ago.
Granted, they had their wingtip fences, which, for the longest time, they said were better than the APB winglets. Odd, given that they've now gone with blended winglets...

The 330/340 family has winglets. All the others had wing tip fences. There were rumors about APB developing winglets for the A380 which would be looooong

The statement that wingtips are better than APB winglets is probably just that....corporate trash talk
The grass is greener where you water it
 
hb88
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 13):
Boeing came to the large passenger market first with the winglet technology, so keeping their competition for using their exact product is normal.

It didn't work for very long, 4 years after the 747-400, the A330 flew with winglets. Of course wing-tip fences were used before that on the A320. People tend to get misled by visual appearances of wing-tip devices, the overall motivation of wing-tip devices is reduced fuel-burn. The difference in terms of improved aero efficiency between the wing-tip fence and the unblended 74' winglet were not, from my understanding, very large (of course depending on the specific mission of the a/c).

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Several respected aviation industry media sources are refusing to use the ridiculous "sharklets" name, or they may use it once (in quotes) and then stick to the generic "winglets" in all further references.

Could you care to identify these 'respected' sources? The name sharklet seems to be used almost universally by the aerospace media - who clearly have no issue with marketing or branding. Calling the sharklet brand ridiculous, is, er, ridiculous. It's a brand - you might like it or not. To clarify, a brand is a non-generic name intended to identify a product with a provenance or origin and to distinguish one parties product from another (as per Kodak, Apple etc etc).

"Boeing" and "Airbus" are brands.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 21):
Maybe they should be called Blended Winglets since APB is suing Airbus for patent infringement. I mean can you tell the difference?

Are they? Can you provide a source for this?

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
es, the winglets sold on their own, without any tacky marketing; the 737MAX is selling well (nearly as well as the A320NEO), without any tacky marketing;

Um, what do you think "MAX" is? It's a brand. Some might say tacky marketing.

There seems to be a weird sort of naivety and hostility about marketing and branding in the aerospace market on a.net.
 
AirbusA322
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:45 am

Question. Are Sharklets an "option" on current build 319/320's?

Heavy A320 operators such as Aeroflot, Tiger Airways, China Southern dont have any. Yet some operators do, then they dont, then the next does etc...
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:22 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 16):
They are called Sharklets because wingtip fences version 2.0 is way too long

They could always have made the A320XHF - as in eXtra High Fences.
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
LN-KGL
Posts: 822
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:50 pm

AustrianZRH, The sharklet is only one of many improvements on the new version of the A32X. The most important improvement is the new engines, and hence why A32Xceo became A32Xneo.

rickabone, I think you are a bit super now, or should I say hyper? The Roots Blower Company, Indiana, received in 1860 a patent for what they called an air mover to use with blast furnaces. 25 years later (1885) Gottlieb Daimler received a patent for a use of an air compressor with an internal combustion engine. It was still 34 years until the first time ever the expression supercharge(r) was used, and with that it is easy to say the word supercharger is the newcomer of the two.
 
AustrianZRH
Posts: 853
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RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 30):
AustrianZRH, The sharklet is only one of many improvements on the new version of the A32X. The most important improvement is the new engines, and hence why A32Xceo became A32Xneo.

I am aware of that, it was merely a tongue in cheek comment on TheRedBaron's name proposal and on Airbus's marketing with XWB. However, while all NEOs will have sharklets, not all sharkleted 320s will be NEOs. There are already CEOs with sharklets delivered, and, as already mentioned in the thread, CEOs from MSN 4000 or so on can be retrofitted with the new wingtip (B6 for instance does that).
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting hb88 (Reply 27):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Several respected aviation industry media sources are refusing to use the ridiculous "sharklets" name, or they may use it once (in quotes) and then stick to the generic "winglets" in all further references.

Could you care to identify these 'respected' sources?

One example: Aviation Week & Space Technology, the most authoritative U.S. aviation industry magazine (founded 1916).
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9193
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:28 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):
Quoting hb88 (Reply 27):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Several respected aviation industry media sources are refusing to use the ridiculous "sharklets" name, or they may use it once (in quotes) and then stick to the generic "winglets" in all further references.

Could you care to identify these 'respected' sources?

One example: Aviation Week & Space Technology, the most authoritative U.S. aviation industry magazine (founded 1916).

Not true: here is for example one article mentioning sharklets in aviation week, I found 8 with one search.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/avd_02_25_2013_p03-01-552126.xml

Sharklet mentioned 6 times in this article.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:36 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 33):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):
Quoting hb88 (Reply 27):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Several respected aviation industry media sources are refusing to use the ridiculous "sharklets" name, or they may use it once (in quotes) and then stick to the generic "winglets" in all further references.

Could you care to identify these 'respected' sources?

One example: Aviation Week & Space Technology, the most authoritative U.S. aviation industry magazine (founded 1916).

Not true: here is for example one article mentioning sharklets in aviation week, I found 8 with one search.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/avd_02_25_2013_p03-01-552126.xml

Sharklet mentioned 6 times in this article.

Airbus probably threatened to remove their advertising if they didn't use the "sharklet" term. I was referring to articles like this where they used the term once, and referred to it as Airbus "marketing speak", and then switched to "winglets". I recall several other similar but longer articles.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.as...59f490-5d8c-498f-a213-44cf1bd1e529
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9193
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: Why "Sharklets"?

Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:38 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):

Just give up your argument is shot down.

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