Sean-SAN-
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:02 pm

Please don't compare 200hr FOs in Europe or Asia to the types who pay to work in Indonesia. Cadet programs at LH CX Sq etc have a highly rigorous selection process and first class training. Then, most cadets ride shotgun for years as IROs or second officers.

Anyone familiar with Indonesian aviation knows how half assed things are and how poor the training is. Money is the only thing that matters. Not skill or aptitude.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19569
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:03 pm

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 50):

Please don't compare 200hr FOs in Europe or Asia to the types who pay to work in Indonesia. Cadet programs at LH CX Sq etc have a highly rigorous selection process and first class training. Then, most cadets ride shotgun for years as IROs or second officers.

Absolutely, but your original quote was not qualified thus.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 13):
200hr FO is basically useless
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
swallow
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:23 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:04 pm

From the radar track on AvHerald, it certainly looks like a ditching. The altimeter error brings back memories of TK 1951 in AMS.

[Edited 2013-04-13 05:14:33]
The grass is greener where you water it
 
User avatar
jetfuel
Posts: 1077
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:08 pm

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 50):
Please don't compare 200hr FOs in Europe or Asia to the types who pay to work in Indonesia. Cadet programs at LH CX Sq etc have a highly rigorous selection process and first class training. Then, most cadets ride shotgun for years as IROs or second officers.

Anyone familiar with Indonesian aviation knows how half assed things are and how poor the training is. Money is the only thing that matters. Not skill or aptitude.

Exactly. 100% correct.
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19569
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:08 pm

Quoting swallow (Reply 52):
From the radar track on AvHerald, it certainly looks like a ditching. The transponder error brings back memories of TK 1951 in AMS.

What transponder error?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
swallow
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:23 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 49):
ROPS? Is this a real thing?

Yes. It is available as a software upgrade on the A380, and will be standard on the A350

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...nked-pilot-systems-secrets-327310/

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 54):
What transponder error?

Sorry, I meant radio altimeter error.
The grass is greener where you water it
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14504
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:39 pm

I hope that the NTSB or some other country's air crash investigative body would be at least in an observer status to make sure there is a through determination of what happened here. While a mechanical or computer problem could be at fault here, more likely it is human error that led to it. That the a/c landed so that there were no apparent deaths and few if any serious injuries may be due to the pilot's actions or some dumb luck, but still something went very wrong here and needs to be thoroughly examined as to Lion Air's whole ops. I would think the insurers and reinsurers would take action with the airline to prevent losses to them they don't need
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19569
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:44 pm

Quoting swallow (Reply 55):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 49):
ROPS? Is this a real thing?

Yes. It is available as a software upgrade on the A380, and will be standard on the A350

Cool!

Quoting swallow (Reply 55):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 54):
What transponder error?

Sorry, I meant radio altimeter error.

Do you have a source for this? Also, even with this error, on a day like this the crew should have been able to see the problem.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:45 pm

That's a lot of ducktape...


Before calling a verdict about Lion Air or Indonesian aviation, lets wait for the final results what caused this crash. Indonesia doesn't have the most easy conditions to fly in (winds, mountains and a lot of growth without having the right capacity or runway systems on the airports)
 
Tunasa
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:21 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:51 pm

Anyway, another pic showing the location of the plane relative to the runway.

Though the saying might be bitter, the truth is always beautiful.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:56 pm

Definitely not a runway overshoot.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
teme82
Posts: 1334
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:38 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:57 pm

I wonder how it ended up in there. At first it seems that there are no clear marks on the grass etc.
Flying high and low
 
LJ
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:58 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 12):
I was at a UK flying school open day recently and they told me they will help their graduates get a job with any airline in the world except for Lion Air.

Yet, many Dutch pilots who just finished flying school seem to be going to Lion Air (even if they've to pay). There are some discussions going on on a Dutch board and a few weeks ago a Dutch program had an item on them (being unsafe). Seems that this accident will not improve Lion Airs reputation abroad.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:03 pm

Quoting teme82 (Reply 61):
I wonder how it ended up in there. At first it seems that there are no clear marks on the grass etc.

The picture clearly shows it was not a runway overshoot but the pilots ditched the plane in short of the runway.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8346
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 63):
The picture clearly shows it was not a runway overshoot but the pilots ditched the plane in short of the runway.

With where the aircraft ended up, so close to land, yet still in the water, i'm not sure if the pilots had any control.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9693
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:12 pm

A friend of a friend of mine worked for Lion Air for a few months, but left after a few months because he felt unsafe working for them because of their procedures and working conditions.
 
swallow
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:23 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 57):
Do you have a source for this?

Please follow the discussion on AvHerald http://avherald.com/h?article=460aeabb&opt=0

Does anyone know why the 738 fuselage tends to break up aft of the wing? Both AA 331 and TK 1951 had breakages in a similar area, although they also broke up fore of the wing.

The second pic on AvHerald seems to indicate both engines sheared off [unless I am mistaken]. The elevators probably broke off when the tail hit the water.
The grass is greener where you water it
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 62):
Yet, many Dutch pilots who just finished flying school seem to be going to Lion Air (even if they've to pay). There are some discussions going on on a Dutch board and a few weeks ago a Dutch program had an item on them (being unsafe). Seems that this accident will not improve Lion Airs reputation abroad.

Not anymore.. the rules became more strict (minimum hours required) so the chance of us going to Indonesia are slim at the moment.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:24 pm

There is some nasty wind into Denpasar. I go quite often and we often go around. However, that's an interesting photo on the location of the plane. Could I still be an overshoot and we just can't see the skid marks is the grass? As an undershoot and landing there, they are incredibl lucky they didn't kill a lot of people
 
Pihero
Posts: 4318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:27 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 58):

Before calling a verdict about Lion Air or Indonesian aviation, lets wait for the final results what caused this crash. Indonesia doesn't have the most easy conditions to fly in

     

Again I'm amazed at the frenzy around an accident from people who don't have a first clue about flying.
It's *exotic*, therefore it must be unsafe. Note that repeated overruns in the US do not attract such criticisms.

The first thing is that posters don't even read the AvH report : the crash happened **short** of the runway ;
The Metars for 0700Z and 0730Z were about 09006KT 9999 BKN017 and 15006KT 110V270 9999 FEW017CB SCT017, which mean that they had shifty winds (from 110° and 270°, hence some nearly 180° variations ) : That's one of the definitions of windshear, my friends.

The same Metars give a broken ceiling at 1700 ft, made of a few scattered clouds and some Cb activity : again, there is a strong possibility of windshear and / or vertical currents, in all probability associated with the cumulus congestus / Cb present at the time.

A very perfunctory examination of the linked picture KarelXWB posted on # 37 reveals the base of a very dark - i.e. vertically developped - cloud over the scene of the accident, which confirms visually the Metars meaning... which non-aviators never do, staying on the "as it appears, ceiling and visibility were OK," assessment which, as a matter of fact wasn't... at all.

Quoting comorin (Reply 40):
. Altimeter was showing a plus 171' error.

The difference between Rad Alt and altimeter readings are normal in this case, the runway is quite a way higher than the sea level : the radio altimeter reads the *height* over the sea, the barometric altimeter reads the *altitude* relative to the airport setting.

So, IMHO, patience and fairness and complete elimination of prejudice - akin to racism - are in order.

Just my two euro cents.

(edit ) : the pic Tunasa posted on # 59 gives a very good idea of the visibility, too : typical Bali weather : Haze giving limited visibility ... where are your cavok conditions ?

[Edited 2013-04-13 06:34:51]

[Edited 2013-04-13 06:35:51]
Contrail designer
 
bueb0g
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:57 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:32 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 43):
Lion Air is still in the list of airlines banned within the EU

Yes, but that's because there was an Indonesian wide ban. Not saying Lion is safe but the Blacklist doesn't refer to them specifically.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 49):
ROPS? Is this a real thing?

Yup, Airbus developed system that is on most A380s, will be on all A350s, and is available for retrofit on A320s as well as Biz jets. Calculates landing performance in real time, if it thinks the a/c will be unable to stop on the runway (it will even update for things such as an extended flare) it shouts "RUNWAY TOO SHORT!" at the crew, as well as RW TOO SHORT showing up on the PFD. If the crew decides to continue the landing it will automatically give the crew full braking and give a "KEEP MAX REVERSE" call going through 80kts.

Quoting teme82 (Reply 61):
I wonder how it ended up in there. At first it seems that there are no clear marks on the grass etc.

Because this was a land short / ditching, not an overrun.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 68):
Could I still be an overshoot and we just can't see the skid marks is the grass?

No, radar data and ATC confirms this was an undershoot or ditch.
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
User avatar
a36001
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:47 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:34 pm

Way to Lion Air! Nothing like writing off a BRAND NEW aircraft! Hell this thing would still have had the new airplane smell! Great pics and greater still that everyone on board are alive.  
 
liquidair
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 2:01 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:38 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 69):

Thank you for some intelligent analysis!
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:45 pm

This might be a stupid question but is there a possibility that the aircraft broke its right winglet by hitting the cement objects on the shore after crashing into the sea?
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5907
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:49 pm

Quoting swallow (Reply 66):
Does anyone know why the 738 fuselage tends to break up aft of the wing? Both AA 331 and TK 1951 had breakages in a similar area, although they also broke up fore of the wing.

The wing area is the strongest point of the fuselage.

Most aircraft fuselages break either close before or close after the wing area. It's simple physics.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 69):
Just my two euro cents.

Excellent analysis, thank you.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
QantasA333
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:21 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:56 pm

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 19):

Read this from another news update, made me 

The plane was travelling from London to Denpasar when it experienced trouble.

Boy, have those 737s got some range. Link to the article, it doesn't add anything new:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/p...17622

Had a good laugh when I heard on Sky News that the plane had travelled from London to Bali. Had a look at the aircraft and then had to watch the report again.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:57 pm

Found this on PPrune:

Quote:
The crash happened just after 5.15pm AEST when the Boeing 737, which had come from the popular shopping town of Bandung, West Java, apparently ditched short of the Ngurah Rai runway after the pilot reported engine troubles.

...

A French passenger on the plane, Jean Grandy, said outside Sanglah hospital that about two minutes before landing there was heavy rain.

The next thing he knew was they were on the water and sinking. He said the cabin crew were "extremely professional" and made sure everybody got out.

...

Mr Huddleston, also a long time Bali resident, told Fairfax Media: "We approached the plane and about three-quarters back of the fuselage was broken in two places, one of the engines was detached about 20 metres away, so it was detached from the wing.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8346
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:01 pm

Those passengers are so lucky to be alive.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:04 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 4):
That aircraft would certainly be a write off. Guess we need to wait for an interim report to be released on what caused it
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 6):

Reports are saying it could be PK-LKS, delivered 19 Feb 2013!

So new there are no pics in the database!
Quoting doug_Or (Reply 8):
You owe me new keyboard.
Quoting mach92 (Reply 9):
I'm telling you these guys are one UNSAFE airline.

Amazing no one died but my question is:


With such a poor safety record, why does B keep selling planes to these guys?!
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:11 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:06 pm

A couple of reports with an "official" state the crew declared "Mayday" before impact.

Also, on every picture I've seen, I can't see the stabiliser on either side...

Rgds
Flying around India
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19569
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:15 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 79):
With such a poor safety record, why does B keep selling planes to these guys?!

It is not Boeing's job to ensure the airline is safe.

[Edited 2013-04-13 07:22:28]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:15 pm

Quote:
"The aircraft was from Bandung, West Java, and about to land in Bali Ngurah Rai Airport but it probably failed to reach the runway and fell into the sea,"

Gotta love that quote... "probably failed to reach the runway and fell into the sea"... Oh really, would have never have guessed. Apparently Lion Air's corp com is about as good as the rest of the company.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:15 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:17 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 69):
Again I'm amazed at the frenzy around an accident from people who don't have a first clue about flying.
It's *exotic*, therefore it must be unsafe. Note that repeated overruns in the US do not attract such criticisms.

The first thing is that posters don't even read the AvH report : the crash happened **short** of the runway ;
The Metars for 0700Z and 0730Z were about 09006KT 9999 BKN017 and 15006KT 110V270 9999 FEW017CB SCT017, which mean that they had shifty winds (from 110° and 270°, hence some nearly 180° variations ) : That's one of the definitions of windshear, my friends.

The same Metars give a broken ceiling at 1700 ft, made of a few scattered clouds and some Cb activity : again, there is a strong possibility of windshear and / or vertical currents, in all probability associated with the cumulus congestus / Cb present at the time

The variable winds can be tricky, but 6 knots, even if its shifting from all over the place shouldn't be a big problem for a 737 and its crew (Lion air's training is really underestimated... )

The CBs however can be very tricky. Although the Metar doesn't show any gusts or whatsoever, the vertical draughts can really put you right off youre spot. And although i'm not an expert on crashes and stuff, looking at its deplacement from the runway, i wouldn't be suprised if it has something to do with that, together with the shifting winds.

But again, lets wait before making conclusions.
 
Pihero
Posts: 4318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:19 pm

For those interested in factual and informed reporting and some professional assumptions, this is the blog of one called Gerry Soejatman
The analysis is what I expect from a pro :
See it here :

Gerry Airways

Mandala499, where are you, buddy ?

[Edited 2013-04-13 07:21:32]
Contrail designer
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:23 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 77):

If the report of heavy rain is correct, could this be a flameout like the Garuda crash in 2002?
 
User avatar
9MMPD
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:30 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:44 pm

The fact the spoilers are not deployed in the picture also indicates this aircraft was not trying to overshoot the runway. Coupled with pictures of the airfield with none of the grass being disturbed it definitely looks like it was landing and didn't reach the Runway.

Glad passengers and crew survived. be very interesting to see what the investigators uncover.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:45 pm

Something doesn't look right on those last shots. It really ended up there on the rocks from an undershoot? I would have thought the aircraft would have suffered much more damage if that was the case
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9202
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:48 pm

All the ropes on the pictures could indicate that the plane was floating and pulled to the shore, it does not have to be in the position were it ditched.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5907
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 88):
It really ended up there on the rocks from an undershoot?

As reported above - and the photos show - the runway is elevated several feet above sea level. The listing I find says 14 ft or 4 M.

The photos show me that the aircraft sat down in the water in a level attitude short of the rock embankment, and then struck the rising reef with the left side engine, spinning the aircraft sideways and breaking the fuselage as was pushed up onto the reef.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 89):
could indicate that the plane was floating

None of the pics indicate the aircraft is floating to me. The ropes are simply aids to keep people from being pushed away in the surf.

EDIT

I checked tide charts and there will be a vairation of a little over 2M in the sea level over the day due to tides. So the water level might make the aircraft wreckage float at some time and be grounded at other times.

[Edited 2013-04-13 08:09:59]
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:03 pm

Strikes me as Indonesia in general, not just Lion, that is somewhat unsafe. I know we can only generalise so much, but over time there see to have been so many crashes.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Braniff747SP
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:18 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22134380

Good article with info and pictures...

The latest in a string of Lion Air incidents. We'll see what caused this one.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
awthompson
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:59 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm

This landing in water, especially such shallow water with rocky obstructions, is quite amazing and it's very fortunate that everyone appears to have survived.

My observation: - if the aircraft was on final approach, then obviously it was flying more or less on the runway heading.
On hitting the water, the aircraft has swung through approx 120 degrees.

To kill off the speed, aircraft has had a short 'landing run' on the water surface, so how did he get over that rocky reef clearly visible a little further out on the final heading?

Is there a tidal effect around Denpasar which would have been significantly higher hence the rocky reef would not have been exposed, with photos taken after tide has dropped significantly? I doubt this as a rocky reef hidden under the surface would have still resulted in a severe breakup of the aircraft.

Could the aircraft have landed in the water at a different location, possibly close to the centreline and then drifted while floating until coming into contact with the rocky bottom and finally resting as the tide dropped in this unusual position?

Lots of questions needing answers!
 
rj777
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:29 pm

No wonder they buy planes in bulk!
 
boacvc10
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:31 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:41 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 37):
Only 2 months old. Now that explains why they need so many new planes.

Well, (sarcasm), look at the positive side, in that light: They now have a slightly used spare vertical stablizer and a pair of spare winglets. Man, that paint job is awesome though.
Up, up and Away!
 
LuisKMIA
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:58 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:42 pm

Indonesian carriers and Air Safety are oxymorons at this point. Good thing everyone survived.
 
User avatar
aerdingus
Posts: 2715
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:58 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:53 pm

I thought in a ditching the rear doors weren't meant to be opened.
A306 A313 A319 A320 A321 A333 A346 A359 ATR42 ATR72 B734 B737 B738 B744 B772 B789 C152 MD80 RJ85 S340
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4263
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:55 pm

Something that I have not seen mentioned. Perhaps birds ingested? Reports of a mayday called, has me thinking they had no power and knew they were not going to make it.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Lion Air 738 Ditches In Sea Short of DPS Runway

Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:03 pm

Wow the passengers have been lucky!!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos