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mia305
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What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:24 am

What airports have short runways with widebody takeoffs and landings?

I know that LGA has 2 runways that are about 7000 feet and have 767s land and takeoff
I know in the 70s they had DC10s and I believe L1011s. When those planes land and
takeoff are they weight resticted because with a 7000 foot runway that would be
cutting it close.

Are there any other airports with short runways that have widebodies that land and takeoff?

****Sorry about the question it wouldn't fit so I had to repost it****
 
PITrules
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:27 am

BUR, SNA, ROA courtesy of the integrators.
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timz
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:34 am

Quoting mia305 (Thread starter):
are they weight resticted

They can't take off at MTOW, but they can take full pax on shortish trips-- LGA-ORD, probably LGA-DFW.

Tougher was KOA-SFO when its runway was 6500 ft. OGG is still 7000 ft and 767s were scheduled nonstop as far as ATL.

The A300s out of STT (5350?-ft runway) all? just flew to STX.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:42 am

PVD gets most of the sports charters, especially the UA 767s for the Jets and the DL 767s for the Pats. The longest runway is ~7300 feet.

Also, have you ever seen the Dreamlifters using 3/21 at CHS? What a sight! These are widebodies, albeit not scheduled passenger service
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Viscount724
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting timz (Reply 2):
Quoting mia305 (Thread starter):
are they weight resticted

They can't take off at MTOW, but they can take full pax on shortish trips-- LGA-ORD, probably LGA-DFW.

And remember LGA has a perimeter rule that restricts nonstops to 1500 miles (except DEN which is 1620 mi., and except on Saturday). Widebodies wouldn't be anywhere close to MTOW on such short sectors.

Wardair operated widebodies, including 747s and DC-10s from Victoria (YYJ) to HNL, 2676 miles. Here's one departing for HNL from YYJ's longest 7,000 ft. runway, coincidentally the same length as LGA's runways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxii9qLNjg
 
hoons90
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:48 am

Dzaoudzi Airport (DZA) in Mayotte gets an Air Austral 777-200LR three times a week from RUN. The runway is 6,330ft long.
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rduoodl
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:31 am

Quoting timz (Reply 2):
OGG is still 7000 ft and 767s were scheduled nonstop as far as ATL.

Two years ago Duke Men's Basketball took a DL 763ER OGG-RDU Nonstop. Pretty heavy bird for 7000ft.
Previous: RDU-DTW-LAS-LAX-SYD Up Next: RDU-ATL-MEX
 
rfields5421
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:36 am

Not quite that short - but the 7,700 ft runway at SXM sees a lot of wide body aircraft
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AR385
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:36 am

Quoting mia305 (Thread starter):
When those planes land and
takeoff are they weight resticted because with a 7000 foot runway that would be
cutting it close.
Quoting timz (Reply 2):
They can't take off at MTOW, but they can take full pax on shortish trips

Really? Interesting. I thought a major consideration in thier design was ops at LGA

NRT´s second runway is short and widebodies use it
AEP used to receive AR´s A310s every so often
MGA received IB´s 747s during the 70s I believe, although could have been charters.
 
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treebeard787
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:54 am

FX has sent A310s to SNA before and currently uses an A300 from MEM, pretty cool seeing a jet that size use the 5700ft runway.
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goboeing
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:59 am

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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:02 am

One time I saw a (presumably empty) FedEx A310 blast off of ROC's 10-28, which at that time (about 2004-2005) was 5,500.' Widebody ops at ROC, now mostly FedEx MD-10's, typically use 8,000' 4-22.

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spacecadet
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 8):
NRT´s second runway is short and widebodies use it

Mainly for landings, though. I'm not an expert on ops there so I don't know if this is done 100% of the time, but 0 of my 16 takeoffs from there have been on the short runway and 15 of my 15 landings have been.

Of course, it's kinda fun when ATC in FSX directs me to take off in a 747 from that runway   But I've never experienced it in real life.
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AR385
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 12):
Mainly for landings, though. I'm not an expert on ops there so I don't know if this is done 100% of the time, but 0 of my 16 takeoffs from there have been on the short runway and 15 of my 15 landings have been.

It´s not usually, but I do know from a pilot friend of mind that he has taken off from that runway on AM´s 777 NRT-TIJ back when they stopped in TIJ on the return.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:55 pm

CGH used to have 767's several years ago. AEP as mentioned above had A310's, but only when diverted from EZE, never as scheduled flights. AEP also used to have PU's 757 (not sure if considered a widebody).
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United_fan
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 11):
One time I saw a (presumably empty) FedEx A310 blast off of ROC's 10-28, which at that time (about 2004-2005) was 5,500.' Widebody ops at ROC, now mostly FedEx MD-10's, typically use 8,000' 4-22.

Jim

This past Saturday,when it was windy, a FX A300 landed -28. The tower once asked the MD10 if they could accept 28,and they said 'no way'.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
timz
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 8):
I thought a major consideration in thier design was ops at LGA

Could be-- but no one was designing for MTOW takeoffs there.
 
lhcvg
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 8):
Really? Interesting. I thought a major consideration in thier design was ops at LGA

It was, but the consideration is what was mentioned above -- using them on high-density trunk routes out of congested airports to your hubs (or large O&D destinations like FL) within a reasonable distance.

Think of it like the 757: it has incredible performance for the likes of SNA, but you can also (if it's an ER) fly a TATL flight with the same plane. Both of those usage scenarios were baked into the design because they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
StarAC17
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting rduoodl (Reply 6):
Two years ago Duke Men's Basketball took a DL 763ER OGG-RDU Nonstop. Pretty heavy bird for 7000ft.

Well if it just has the team and support staff its not really that heavy. On Wikipedia it says that a 763 at MTOW only needs about 8300 ft to get off the ground.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 12):
Of course, it's kinda fun when ATC in FSX directs me to take off in a 747 from that runway   But I've never experienced it in real life.

You can change the runway  .

Also regarding shorter runways that wide-bodies use.

I have taken off in a 777 that used 9/27 at MEL (7500 ft) which was bound for AKL, also I reckon 16L/34R at SYD handles widebodies from time to time.

in Feb 2011 when the earthquake hit CHC, NZ operated 777's out of WLG.
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airbazar
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:05 pm

I'm not sure I'd call a 7,000ft runway short. BOS's runway 9/27 is 7,000ft and it sees WB ops including TATL flights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCvfStcK5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd-RE-hjkYA
 
highflier92660
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:06 pm

Let's see...weight times arm equals moment...and how many thousand pounds of fuel did we load?



http://www.youtube.comwtch?v=_V7siBUbp4M


Princess Juliana in St. Maarten; everybody's favorite short wide-body runway in the Caribbean. Here a Corsair 747-400 uses every bit of the 7,054 foot runway and threatens to go into the 492 foot overrun. The airport enthusiasts at the adjacent beach bar restaurants are no-doubt in their glory.
 
roseflyer
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:37 pm

UA's 777s into OGG's 6995' runway are always interesting. Too bad it is down to mostly 753s. The 777s couldn't make it back to ORD nonstop.
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Phen
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:43 pm

I've seen EI's A333s take off from DUB's shorter 16/34 which is 6,800ft.
 
flyingfool
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:52 pm

There are a lot of British Airports with a short runway handling loads widebody's to further away destinations.
 
modesto2
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:53 pm

EWR rwy 11-29 is 6,800' and operates with widebodies. I'll never forget riding in a CO 777 from PEK to EWR and doing the ILS 22L circle to 29 in strong winds. Crazy and awesome.
 
by738
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:02 pm

Quoting flyingfool (Reply 23):
There are a lot of British Airports with a short runway handling loads widebody's to further away destinations.

There are ? Guess it depends on your definition of short runway. GLA BHX and NCL would really be the only ones regularly handling long haul widebodies and they are all over 7000ft.
 
cannon750
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:16 pm

Also in Hawaii, Lihue Airport (LIH) on Kauai has even shorter runways (6500 ft.) than OGG and in the summer United runs a 767 all the way to Denver on some days. Likely all gasoline and passengers with little cargo other than the luggage!
 
AAIL86
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting cannon750 (Reply 26):
Also in Hawaii, Lihue Airport (LIH) on Kauai has even shorter runways (6500 ft.) than OGG and in the summer United runs a 767 all the way to Denver on some days. Likely all gasoline and passengers with little cargo other than the luggage!

Was it a 767 in the past? I see a weekly 752 in the GDS ...

SA 06JUL LIH / DEN + 4:00 HR
UA 581 F9 A9 Z9 P9 Y9 B9 M9 E9 U9 H9+LIHDEN 810P 653A+752

Quoting timz (Reply 2):
OGG is still 7000 ft and 767s were scheduled nonstop as far as ATL.
Quoting rduoodl (Reply 6):
Two years ago Duke Men's Basketball took a DL 763ER OGG-RDU Nonstop. Pretty heavy bird for 7000ft.

It doesn't appear DL operate ATL-OGG anymore - but AA operate DFW-OGG daily on a 763 ....
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Beechtobus
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:41 pm

While FLL's main runway, 9L-27R is 9000', it closes for mx or otherwise time to time as it did for several weeks a couple summers ago and 13-31 at 6900' is the only other choice. Pretty cool watching Fedexs MD-11s and DC-10s, Air Transats and Fedexs A300s and 310s, Condors and Deltas 767 use that.
 
vfw614
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 25):
There are ? Guess it depends on your definition of short runway. GLA BHX and NCL would really be the only ones regularly handling long haul widebodies and they are all over 7000ft.

LTN at 7.087ft. It had more WBs in the past, however. Think of Court Line TriStars, BY 767s or ZBs AB6.
 
olddominion727
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:47 pm

Why can't UA 772 make it OGG-ORD, AA flew their 763 from OGG-DFW and ORD. TW flew their 763 OGG-STL
 
roseflyer
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 30):


Why can't UA 772 make it OGG-ORD, AA flew their 763 from OGG-DFW and ORD. TW flew their 763 OGG-STL

UA's 777-200s operating to Hawaii are baseline 777-200s (not ERs). With a 7,000 ft runway, depending on temperature, they are weight restricted by about 25,000 - 35,000 lbs. UA's 772s in the Hawaii configuration have 348 seats, which is a relatively heavy load excluding any cargo for a 777-200. The airplane has a range of about 2,600 nautical miles off of OGG with a full load of passengers. That's enough for OGG-SFO on the 777, but OGG-ORD is 3,600 nautical miles, so that means that they would have to block seats in exchange for fuel. Blocking seats would kill the economics of OGG-ORD since the route is depending on a high quantity of passengers since there are few high yielding premium class fares on that route.

The 777-200ER would be able to make ORD without limiting passengers. The 767-300ER doesn't have the same payload/range curve as the 777 and can typically operate out of shorter runways than a 777-200 economically.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 30):
TW flew their 763 OGG-STL

Just so funny to read in 2013.........
 
EZYAirbus
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 29):
LTN at 7.087ft. It had more WBs in the past, however. Think of Court Line TriStars, BY 767s or ZBs AB6.

Also El Al 767/777 operate daily, MNG Cargo A300s, DHL A300s

Remember the BA 747-400 divert a few years back too!
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virginson937
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:34 pm

BRS at some points of the year can have a Thomson/First Choice 767 operating charter flights to SFB.

The runway length is 6,598 feet.



Will
 
konrad
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:34 pm

EPKK Kraków is 8300 ft and used to have 763 service to KORD. It was a 10 hour flight, with weight restrictions most of the time.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 31):
That's enough for OGG-SFO on the 777, but OGG-ORD is 3,600 nautical miles,

Hence the ORD-OGG-KOA-ORD routing of the flight.
 
Boeing744
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Wardair operated widebodies, including 747s and DC-10s from Victoria (YYJ) to HNL, 2676 miles. Here's one departing for HNL from YYJ's longest 7,000 ft. runway, coincidentally the same length as LGA's runways.

Great video! Thanks for posting.

My first flight ever was on a Wardair 747 (not sure if -100 or -200) from YYJ to Honolulu, just like that! I was about 9 months old. I wonder if this was even the same flight, as I assume they did not do this very often. According to my parents, though, shortly after take-off they were forced to land in YVR due to gear issues. The flight continued on to HNL after that though.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:21 pm

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 3):
Also, have you ever seen the Dreamlifters using 3/21 at CHS? What a sight! These are widebodies, albeit not scheduled passenger service

Same with Boeing wide-bodies taking off from PAE and BFI and PDX (were some go for painting). Boeing test, ferry and customer flights are relatively light weight and they use un-derated takeoff thrust.

You should see the 777-200LR and 777-300ER go. One pilot time it and said the 777-300ER was airborne in 17 seconds after break release. That's what 115,000lb engines can do with a light airplane and no takeoff derates.
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 14):
CGH used to have 767's several years ago.

Also A300s. I landed at CGH on a Varig A300 once in the mid-1980s. The flight operated EZE-CGH-GIG.
 
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prchan
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:41 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 14):
CGH used to have 767's several years ago.

TR operated 767s in CGH and VP operated A300s. I believe last regular flights were flown late 90s.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/VASP/...d=1fc1752edfaaf2e20f894b21f7f98801
 
Motorhussy
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:00 pm

WLG is 2,081 metres or 6,827 feet long.


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71Zulu
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:14 pm

This is the Duke DL 763 charter, it was pretty light but still quite a long flight.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...8/history/20111125/0200Z/PHOG/KRDU
 
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Phen
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:26 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 38):
You should see the 777-200LR and 777-300ER go.

See here http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=FL...dI&feature=player_detailpage#t=70s

Amazing.
 
cannon750
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:26 pm

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 27):
Was it a 767 in the past? I see a weekly 752 in the GDS ...

SA 06JUL LIH / DEN + 4:00 HR
UA 581 F9 A9 Z9 P9 Y9 B9 M9 E9 U9 H9+LIHDEN 810P 653A+752

I've seen the 767 evening departure the last few years we've been there in the summer, but perhaps the demand isn't there this year--it definitely used almost all 6500 ft for take-off though, and like in Orange County the pilot rev'd those engines up pretty high before releasing the break...
 
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STT757
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:37 pm

EWR's runway 11/29 at 6,800ft, seen 747s, A340s, 777s etc. using that crosswind runway plenty of times.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Airplanebrain
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:54 pm

The old Austin Mueller airport had a 7,200 ft runway and AA did fly a DC-10 there occasionally with weight restrictions. That is no longer a problem with the B-52 runway at the new Bergstron airport.
 
timz
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:54 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 38):
Boeing test, ferry and customer flights are relatively light weight and they use un-derated takeoff thrust.

Why?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 45):
EWR's runway 11/29 at 6,800ft, seen 747s, A340s, 777s etc. using that crosswind runway plenty of times.

Landing-- but never taking off?
 
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STT757
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:05 am

Quoting timz (Reply 47):
Landing-- but never taking off?



The biggest aircraft I've personally ever seen taking off would be MD-80s, 737s. Has it happened though I do not know.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: What Airports Have Short Runways With Widebodies?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:47 am

Slightly off topic, YLW's runway is 8900 ft and receives (four engine) An-124's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVNcJ0XBtso

[Edited 2013-04-24 17:49:50]

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