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Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 12:01 pm

Tks ferpe.
i agree.
So the wait is almost over....
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 4:11 pm

Excellent ferpe   

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 50):
So the wait is almost over....



Yes. It is starting to look like Airbus will skip the traditional rollout ceremony and fly MSN001 asap.
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TaromA380
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 4:16 pm

If they flies it before Paris Air Show, why don't land at Le Bourget for a static display ?
THAT would be a great advertising.

(in contrast to the empty shell rollout we all remember)
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 52):
why don't land at Le Bourget for a static display ?

Time is precious and a static display would require a lot of preparations.

Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 52):
THAT would be a great advertising.

And putting the EIS in 2014 at risk? There is no room in the schedule.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 4:24 pm

There is a very nice article about advances in Airbus production methods on the AW website:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/AW_05_06_2013_p47-570060.xml&p=2

It spans all models but a large piece is about the 350 and how the manufacturing was part of the design process from the beginning. It also once again emphasizes the importance of the single toolset for concurrent engineering of design and manufacturability, using the single instance DMU for complete configuration control.

I also like the part about the little MTorres suction feet robot    that crawls the fuselage and drills holes and attach fasteners tirelessly, only problem they haven't found a good method to replenish him with new fasteners yet (man have to feed him I guess i.e. man is helper to robot, cute    ).
Non French in France
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 51):
It is starting to look like Airbus will skip the traditional rollout ceremony and fly MSN001 asap.

Seems like confirmed by Fabrice Bregier now:

Quote:
Asked recently whether Airbus would hold an A350 rollout ceremony, Airbus Chief Executive Fabrice Bregier told Reuters, "Probably not. We'll go straight to our first flight."
Source

Funny how he says "probably not" while he knows the answer.
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 4:52 pm







Source and more info: Exclusive Photos: First Look at a Complete Airbus A350 - WSJ

[Edited 2013-05-08 10:13:59]
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starbucks
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 4:57 pm

Haha you beat me over here... :P  
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 5:21 pm

The WSJ blog article if free to read, no subscriptions are required. So please moderators, do not remove the url and/or post.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 9:22 pm

Here Ostrower has found a 787 picture from the same angle and combined the A350 and 788, nice comparison:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350and7871024picture_zps5bdd2cfd.jpg

The wings are quite different as are the wing fairings.The cockpit lines are surprisingly similar however from this angle, they give a very dissimilar visual impression   .

Edit: On closer inspection I was really surprised to find the aft freight door on the left side for the 788   , the inventive John has mirrored the 788 to get the view    .

[Edited 2013-05-08 14:39:54]
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scbriml
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 59):
Edit: On closer inspection I was really surprised to find the aft freight door on the left side for the 788   , the inventive John has mirrored the 788 to get the view

The back-to-front "LINER" was a clue!   

Nice comparison though. Those A350 wing-tips are stunning.   
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tortugamon
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 9:59 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 59):
The wings are quite different as are the wing fairings.

The flap track fairings seem like they are much bigger on the A350 but that seems to be the case with most of the Küchemann Carrots on Airbus aircraft.

tortugamon
 
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shamrock350
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 10:19 pm

The 787 seems to have smoother lines, the fact it's painted versus the unpainted A350 might give that impression but the A350 wing looks incredible, already seems to have a droop while on the ground but that winglet will look best in the air!
 
LZ129
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 10:32 pm

I have been expecting the A350 to turn out to be a beautiful aircraft since the first renderings came out, but this actually exceeds all my expectations. What a beauty! The winglets I think we can all agree upon, but I'm in love with that tail. It looks so delicate and adds a lot to the plane's overall grace. I think I'm in love now 
 
tortugamon
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 11:11 pm

No chevrons on the engine were expected but I had not noticed the distance between the wheels on the mlg before. That must reduce pressure on the individual wheels.

tortugamon
 
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EPA001
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 11:17 pm

Quoting LZ129 (Reply 63):
I have been expecting the A350 to turn out to be a beautiful aircraft since the first renderings came out, but this actually exceeds all my expectations. What a beauty!

And that while she is not even fully painted. We have another beautiful bird to look out for for. The wingtips are just magnificent.  .
 
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kanban
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Wed May 08, 2013 11:52 pm

the 787 bogies appear to be shorter and narrower.. anybody have the numbers?
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 1:30 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 64):
That must reduce pressure on the individual wheels

Reduces pressure on the pavement, not on the wheels, by spreading the load over a larger bearing surface.
 
tortugamon
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 1:39 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 67):

Now that makes more sense. Thanks
 
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zeke
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 1:46 am

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 48):
With first flight tentatively scheduled June 11, there is about 2 weeks between first engine start and FF. Is that about industry average?

The 777 was around 9-10 weeks from rollout to first flight, the A380 14-15 weeks.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 53):
And putting the EIS in 2014 at risk? There is no room in the schedule.

I would have to agree, there is no sign that they will have the first 4 aircraft flying in 4-5 months of the first one, I really have to think that 2014 may already have gone.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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777222LR
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 2:58 am

If you took out the winglet, and just shot the mid section from behind like that angle with the 787 and A350 picture, you'd think it was a 777. Interesting, they only have 3 flap tracks (canoes) or whatever they are called, very Boeing too. Not saying they are copying, at all, but I like this simpler look to the multiple ones on most airbus widebodies.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 9:04 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 69):
I would have to agree, there is no sign that they will have the first 4 aircraft flying in 4-5 months of the first one, I really have to think that 2014 may already have gone.

The flight test campaign should last 12 months so theoretically 2014 should be doable if the remaining test aircraft fly later this year.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
flyhigh1982
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 9:51 am

Is it me or are those windows look small
 
Scipio
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 12:31 pm

Quoting flyhigh1982 (Reply 72):
Is it me or are those windows look small

They are supposed to be wider but not as tall as those on the B787, and somewhat smaller overall. The pictures may optically exaggerate the size differences, though, due to the A350's bigger overall dimensions.

The A350's windows are marketed as 20% bigger than those of the A380 and 30% bigger than those of the A340.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ances-beyond-seats-and-ife-369430/
http://airinsight.com/2010/09/14/air...a350-xwb-composite-fuselage-panel/

Here are some data I found:

A350: 420 x 285 mm, or 16.5 x 11.2 inches

B787: 467 x 272 mm, or 18.4 x 10.7 inches

B777: 381 x 254 mm, or 15 x 10 inches

A340: 350 x 250 mm, or 13.8 x 9.8 inches

A380: 374 x 270 mm, or 14.7 x 10.6 inches

Sources:

A350 XWB Final Design Revealed (by Bells Jan 14 2009 in Civil Aviation) (post 181)
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/ar...Airbus-Boeing-duel-jet-1239599.php
 
Pihero
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 12:36 pm

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 70):
If you took out the winglet, and just shot the mid section from behind like that angle with the 787 and A350 picture, you'd think it was a 777.

Well, that takes an awful lot of imagination !

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 70):
Interesting, they only have 3 flap tracks (canoes) or whatever they are called, very Boeing too.

There are plenty of reasons why technically, Airbus has bigger fairings : the main one is that the pivot point of the actuation mechanism is farther aft of the flap chord.
As for the **very Boeing** comment, just have a look at the A320.
Last but nost least is that Airbus uses a lot of computation to improve the area rule of all their aircraft. It can bre seen on the way they sculpted the canoes and the wing-to- body fairing of all their products.
There is no hint of superiority from either OEM, there are differsnt solutions to an efficiency requirement.
Contrarily to common belief - especially here on A.net - until the 787 came out and still is an unknown technical realisation, the Airbus flap designs are both simpler and more efficient than the equivalent products from the other side of the Atlantic.( the A321 being an exception ).
Contrail designer
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 1:16 pm

The size of the bogie is very striking.
It' a 268 t bird, so the heavy 8 wheeler so far...
Let's compare with the 787-9 when we have photos
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Thu May 09, 2013 1:17 pm

Oh ...
We can compare the future 242 t A330 with this 268 baby... looks like the 4 wheel bogie on the A330 is also generously spaced
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 9:30 am

MSN001 test registration F-XWBA confirmed.
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EPA001
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 11:13 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 77):
F-XWBA confirmed

That is a logical registration code.  .
 
chrishoesel
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 12:14 pm

Anyone know in which direction the bogies tilt? Rear down like A330 or front down like on A380/767? I know it's a frivolous thing, but I rather prefer the elegance of the A330 MLG bogies; which this seems to indicate a resemblance to.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 59):
Here Ostrower has found a 787 picture from the same angle and combined the A350 and 788, nice comparison:
Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 75):
The size of the bogie is very striking.

Here is another picture, now watch that bogie  Wow!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7415/8725540643_0e25483003_c.jpg
(click for a bigger format: http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/8725540643/in/photostream)
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Stitch
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 4:51 pm

In terms of the bogie, I cannot remember if the four-wheel bogie and six-wheel bogie are meant to fit in the same main wheel well? If so, that could explain why the four-wheel bogie has the tires and wheels spread wider apart.
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 5:57 pm

Not the same wheel bay.
And the triplex is a little bit narrrower.
The 787-9 is harder on pavement it seems
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 5:58 pm

I found these pictures on Flightglobal:





The six-wheel bogie bay is a bit larger so this does not explains it. Also, the main landing gear for the -1000 will be provided by another supplier.

[Edited 2013-05-10 11:05:15]
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ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Fri May 10, 2013 7:08 pm

The -1000 MLG takes another frame space, ie another 25'' or 0.6350m.

The funny thing is that all airframes uses inch based frame spacing, I guess it is because so much equipment stems from the US and UK. Here the frame spacing of some recent frames:

767 22 inch
748 21 inch
777 21 inch
787 24 inch

3X0 21 inch
330/340 21 inch
350 25 inch
380 25 inch

It shall be observed that airframe stretches almost always are performed with increments of whole frames e.g. 5 frame before wingbox and 4-5 after. If things does not fit with +-X whole frames it is normally something fishy with the numbers.

[Edited 2013-05-10 12:14:24]
Non French in France
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sat May 11, 2013 8:14 pm

http://oi42.tinypic.com/1em4uw.jpg



http://oi43.tinypic.com/2evtez9.jpg



http://oi43.tinypic.com/8z4qdf.jpg







Source: Airbus A350 on Facebook

[Edited 2013-05-11 13:37:46]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sat May 11, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
Source: Airbus A350 on Facebook

I thought MSN001 was going for painting, now it is being mothballed !!!           
Non French in France
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sat May 11, 2013 9:13 pm

It's going into long term storage at TLS     
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sat May 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
I just heard that MSN001 will roll out in 10 days.

Roll out now set for Monday evening.
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 11:02 am

http://oi41.tinypic.com/14s9so.jpg

http://oi43.tinypic.com/mbpd76.jpg

Same source as above.

[Edited 2013-05-12 04:07:04]
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Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 11:04 am

Step by step teasing...
Nice
 
FAEDC3
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 11:20 am

I'm loving this... Can't wait for monday.
Does anybody know if the rumor of a slight change in the Airbus livery will be done with the A350?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 11:24 am

I never heard anything about it and I believe that rumor was created here on a.net ?

But I'm always in for a nice surprise  
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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zeke
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 11:53 am

Quoting faedc3 (Reply 91):
Does anybody know if the rumor of a slight change in the Airbus livery will be done with the A350?

I thought it was just being painted like the renderings, with the updated Airbus corporate logo.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
pugman211
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 4:02 pm

Let's hope they paint the window surround black like the rendering.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 94):

I personally hope they don't...I think it looks kind of ridiculous.
 
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Revelation
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 54):
It spans all models but a large piece is about the 350 and how the manufacturing was part of the design process from the beginning. It also once again emphasizes the importance of the single toolset for concurrent engineering of design and manufacturability, using the single instance DMU for complete configuration control.

Seems they learned the main lesson of the A380.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 92):
I never heard anything about it and I believe that rumor was created here on a.net ?

The photos will also stop the a.net rumor that French people don't work on weekends! 
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Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 7:43 pm

Revelation this fre nch week 8 and 9 holyday, 11 and 12 week end
Not for everybody as you pointed...
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 8:04 pm

An older picture showing MSN1 and MSN3 inside C63:

http://oi41.tinypic.com/63tvkh.jpg

[Edited 2013-05-12 13:54:39]
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9

Sun May 12, 2013 8:18 pm

Nice picture of the winglet:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eO6ftzmayQs/UY6L3urUsmI/AAAAAAAAD64/mz7x6z3lubc/s1600/image.jpg
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