Hello Friends,
Welcome to the May edition of "Turkish Aviation" thread;


View Large View Medium

Photo © Rotate


-I guess we are all done with "orders" for most of the Turkish airline companies for sometime.
Now, it is time to build a new airport in Istanbul and the tender is due in a few days. Too bad the number of bids are going to be around 3-5. Good Luck to them, hope they can start on time and finish the first phase by late 2017.

-There is talk of a strike at TK, probably won't happen.

Please continue from where we left off, especially the role of ESB for the near future.

TK787

Thnaks to TK105 for the extensive information on ESB and is network potential, expectations etc.

However, I disgaree that any other alliance other than Star has no chance in ESB. In fact One World (through Air Berlin /Pegasus) has some chance to grow so BA can step in,

Also Skyteam should cover the airport with KL and AF and AZ all of which will make good business.

The reports prepared by TAV do not refer to ESB North America traffic. There is considerable transit traffic between North America and ESB too. We covered this topic in former debates, I mentioned the ESB JFK route introduction (in fact to be reinstated would be a right term to use as PAN AM flew the route between 1955 and 1990) and of course lots of discussion took place. I still think that it would work very well intially on thrice weekly basis.

What I think is ESB needs a hometown carrier that can emulate TK on a smaller scale, if TK itself is unwilling to do so, by creating a regional hub between Europe, N. Africa, Central Asia and MidEast. AnadoluJet is TK, so that leaves PC as the only candidate. Now, if PC can base at least 15-20 or so of its orders at ESB, it can carry traffic between these regions and possibly Turkish hinterland as well. It would also serve O&D at Ankara too.

Maybe TK will eventually expand into ESB, it is just waiting to reach critical mass at IST (the way LH branched into MUC after FRA was saturated).

Diyarbakir's reception ceremony at KUL on 25 April 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHXcK8Pf4G0



[Edited 2013-05-01 08:01:27]

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 1): In fact One World (through Air Berlin /Pegasus) has some chance to grow so BA can step in,

Except Sabanci specifically said PC would not join an alliance as it would complicate the business.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 1): (in fact to be reinstated would be a right term to use as PAN AM flew the route between 1955 and 1990)

In reality PA flew many places around the world regardless of economics. Ankara service which was intermittent over the decades and was no different. The last attempt with 727 service via IST a few times per week was lucky to have 30-40 people onboard with most actually bound for Germany not the US.

I remember we tried to do this before (some months or even years ago). Is there a chance that we can compile a COMPLETE list of all different subtypes of TK. What I mean is for example in various booking systems the aircraft type shows 77C which obviously is a 777-300ER; however, there are others which aren't that clear to me. I'm pretty sure this is connected with the differentiation of leased and owned aircraft. It would be perfect to add the particular registrations to that list as well. Here is what I've found so far:

315 / A319-100 / ...
316 / A319-100 / ...
1AJ / (used by Anadolujet I guess)
2AJ - same
31D
32C / A32... / ...
32L / A32... / ...
32N / A32... / ...
32R / A32... / ...
33Q / A330-... / ...
3MF / A330-... / ...
73W / B737-... / ...
73Y / B73.-... / ...
77C / B777-300ER / ...
78D
78V
79B
7AJ
8AJ

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 3):

Are you sure this is the correct video link?

There are multiple internal aircraft codes. Some are operational others are commercial for use in things like GDS.

Anyhow here is latest company fleet list dated April 30.

The list specific list has two aircraft codes one commercial and second an operational one

Registration / Type / DVS Code / OPS Code / Seats

TC-JDJ A340-311 340 343 270
TC-JDK A340-312 342 342 270
TC-JDL A340-311 340 343 270
TC-JDM A340-311 340 343 270
TC-JDN A340-313 343 343H 270
TC-JIH A340-313 343 343H 270
TC-JII A340-313 343 343H 270
TC-JNA A330-203 332 332 250
TC-JNB A330-203 332 332 250
TC-JNC A330-203 332 332 250
TC-JND A330-203 332 332 250
TC-JNE A330-203 332 332 250
TC-JNF A330-203 33Q 33Q 281
TC-JNG A330-203 33Q 33Q 281
TC-JNH A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNI A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNJ A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNK A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNL A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNM A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNN A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNO A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNP A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JNR A330-343 333 333 289
TC-JDO A330-243F 33X 33X Freighter
TC-JDP A330-243F 33X 33X Freighter
TC-JDR A330-243F 33X 33X Freighter
TC-JCT A310-304F 31Y 31YJCT Freighter
TC-JCY A310-304F 31Y 31YJCVYZ Freighter
TC-JCZ A310-304F 31Y 31YJCVYZ Freighter
TC-JLM A319-132 319 319 132
TC-JLN A319-132 319 319 132
TC-JLO A319-132 315 319 132
TC-JLP A319-132 315 319 132
TC-JLR A319-132 31D 319 138
TC-JLS A319-132 316 319 132
TC-JLT A319-132 316 319 132
TC-JLU A319-132 316 319 132
TC-JLV A319-132 316 319 132
TC-JLY A319-132 316 319 132
TC-JLZ A319-132 316 319 132
TC-JUA A319-132 31E 319 132
TC-JUB A319-132 31E 319 132
TC-JUD A319-132 31E 319 132
TC-JLJ A320-232 32L 32L77 162
TC-JLK A320-232 32L 32L77 162
TC-JLL A320-232 32E 32E77 167
TC-JPA A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPB A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPC A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPD A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPE A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPF A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPG A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPH A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPI A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPJ A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPK A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPL A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPM A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPN A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPO A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPP A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPR A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPS A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPT A320-232 320 320 159
TC-JPU A320-214 32C 32C77 150
TC-JPV A320-214 32C 32C77 150
TC-JPY A320-214 32C 32C77 150
TC-JAI A320-232 32G 32G150 150
TC-JBI A320-232 32G 32G150 150
TC-JUG A320-232 B32 B32 180
TC-JRA A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRB A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRC A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRD A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRE A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRF A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRG A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRH A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRI A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRJ A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRK A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRL A321-231 321 321 194
TC-JRM A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRN A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRO A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRP A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRR A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRS A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRT A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRU A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRV A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRY A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JRZ A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSA A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSB A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSC A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSD A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSE A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSF A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSG A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JSH A321-231 32R 32R 180
TC-JMH A321-232 32N 32N 178
TC-JMI A321-232 32N 32N 178
TC-JMJ A321-232 32N 32N 178
TC-JMK A321-232 32N 32N 178
TC-JML A321-231 32J 32J 194
TC-JDG B737-400 734 73422K 150
TC-JDH B737-400 734 73422K 150
TC-JDT B737-400 734 73422K 150
TC-JFC B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFE B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFH B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFI B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFJ B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFK B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFN B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFO B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFP B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFR B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFT B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFU B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFV B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JFZ B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JGA B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JGB B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JGC B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JGD B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JGF B737-800W 738 738W 165
TC-JGG B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 155
TC-JGH B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 155
TC-JGI B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 155
TC-JGJ B737-800W 738 738WHIGH 165
TC-JGK B737-800W 738 738WHIGH 165
TC-JGL B737-800W 73U 738WHIGH 165
TC-JGM B737-800W 738 738WHIGH 165
TC-JGN B737-800W 738 738WHIGH 165
TC-JGO B737-800W 73U 738WHIGH 165
TC-JGP B737-800W 738 738WHIGH 165
TC-JGR B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 155
TC-JGS B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 155
TC-JGT B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 155
TC-JGU B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 165
TC-JGV B737-800W 737 737WHIGH 155
TC-JGY B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JGZ B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JHA B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JHB B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JHC B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JHD B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JHE B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JHF B737-800WSFP 738 738WSFP 165
TC-JHG B737-800W 73A 738W24K189 189
TC-JHH B737-800W 73A 738W24K189 189
TC-JHJ B737-800 73E 73827K189 189
TC-JHK B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHL B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHM B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHN B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHO B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHP B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHR B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHS B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JHT B737-800WSFP 78D 738WSFP151 151
TC-JYA B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYB B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYC B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYD B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYE B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYF B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYG B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYH B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYI B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JYJ B737-900ER 79B 739 151
TC-JKJ B737-700W 73W 73W24K124 124
TC-JKK B737-700W 73W 73W24K124 124
TC-JKN B737-700W 73W 73W24K124 124
TC-JKO B737-700W 73W 73W24K124 124
TC-JKP B737-700W 73Y 73Y62 149
TC-JKR B737-700W 73Y 73Y62 149
TC-JJE B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJF B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJG B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJH B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJI B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJJ B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJK B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJL B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJM B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJN B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJO B777-300ER 77C 77C 337
TC-JJP B777-300ER 77C 77C 337

=

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

awesome! thank you...

Is it true that all 78Ds are equipped with PTVs and 2x2 C class seating?

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 9): Is it true that all 78Ds are equipped with PTVs and 2x2 C class seating?

Yes, it features AVOD in all seats and 2x2 C/CL configuration

Quoting TK787 (Reply 6): Are you sure this is the correct video link?

Gosh, so sorry. Here is the correct link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwY8nDHObaI

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 1):

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 2):

I think long distance flights for ESB is still early. For such flights you need enough domestic and medium distance international flights for connecting transfer passengers. Otherwise you always have to rely on O&D traffic resulting lower yields even if you can find enough loads. ESB has very good domestic connections but medium distance international flights are missing.

I do not believe that Pegasus would ever be a dominant player in ESB (as in IST). To my view, passengers of Pegasus are the same group of people who used to be traveling with Varan 15 years back: Students, Private Business Owners (Doctors, Lawyers, Architects, etc), Young Professionals having private trips, Educated people visiting their summer houses; belonging to Medium-Medium/Upper Class with Secular Lifestyle.

Demand in ESB for international destinations is premium traffic which is corporate travelers. All such companies already have agreements with TK for certain benefits for corporates and additional benefits for decision makers in the companies. Even a simplest construction worker does not want LCC ticket as it is paid by the company. Similarly engineers or managers complains a lot if LCC ever have to be used. For example 2-3 years back in our company we had to use Anadolujet for ESB-AMS as it was the only alternative and it was a big headache for management after a few flights. Similarly a few months back one of our clients had to make TLV-ESB but TK tickets were very high. His company management opted to buy a Pegasus ticket for TLV-SAW-ESB-SAW-TLV. During the 3 days this person stayed, he complaint about the flight. For 1 hour flights (i.e. domestic) LCC is Ok, but longer flights it is not good for corporate travelers.

On an other note, now 3rd parallel runway for ESB, Government is taking new steps. It looks like it will be tendered with in 2013 or early next year. It will have 60m width and be able to accommodate A380.

http://wowturkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=112353 (Turkish Only)

Also next year extension of subway to ESB will be tendered. The idea is to transfer passengers going to nearby cities by fast trains from ESB. This will improve ESB's position as a transfer airport.

http://wowturkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111306 (Turkish Only)

Together with the new exhibition grounds and hotels planned, as well as a probable extension of terminal, we may see a whole new ESB in a few years.

Then comes the next topic : Is Esenboga a good name for this airport. I leave this for another time.

Its time to find out about the new airport tender.

So far TAV put out a press release that they formally submitted their bid to the government on Tuesday.

Quoting TK105 (Reply 12):

Today all members should be excited about the new IST airport tender so I am not going to make a long discussion topic.

I think ESB case is not very difficult to restore. Immediate future development should be to reinstate some routes suspended or start new international routes and this will make it work;

Underserved routes; AMS (KL to step in), MUC (TK to step in), VIE (OS to step in), GYD (TK to step in), Arbil (TK to step in),

Routes to be introduced: LHR by BA and TK, Kiev by TK, Tripoli by TK, DXB by EK, CDG by AF, FCO by AZ or TK, ORY by TK, CPH by TK, ZRH by TK or LX, AMM by TK or RJ, Riyadh by TK, Tebriz (by TK), Batumi (by TK), Cairo (by TK or MS) + various CIS destinations to be served mainly by TK like Bishkek, Almaty, Ashgabat etc. The CIS flights can be triangle flights.

This will give sufficient boost also to Turkish domestic connections and will put ESB on the map for an initial step.

How likely is this, we will see.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

You can follow online the tendering minutes:

http://www.airporthaber.com/canli (Turkish)

AMAN ALLAHIM.... (Oh my god)

Price is already above 21.000.000.000 Euro + Complete Construction...

What an open bid. This is once in a life time only...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): So far TAV put out a press release that they formally submitted their bid to the government on Tuesday.

TAV is out of the game... currently LIMAK and IC/FRAPORT are at 22.130.000.000 EUR...

Honestly, this is insane. These companies are claiming that they can cover the 8-9 bn euros of construction costs AND pay 22 billon euros as rent for the airport? I doubt any airport can bring in over 30 billion euros over 25 years, (let's not forget operating costs and any profit the consortium is hoping to make). I know the rent is spread out over the lifetime of the project, but that coupled with financing costs for the construction can cripple any company.

I watcted the tender and found it very interesting that lower bid at first round was 4 billion and highest was 9 billion then it had gone up to +22 billion ? what a calculations bidders made ?

And Limak-Cengiz-Mapa-Kalyon OGG wins the bid with a 22 billion 152 million Euros before taxes...

Let's hope that we see the new airport relatively on schedule..

I wanted TAV for operational reasons I really think they know what they are doing. The price is outrageous and the winning group was going to bid higher no matter what. Limak is owned by someone extremely close to PM and has ten fold his net worth in last 10 years.

I started a separate thread about the new airport tender since last time it received broad interest from A.net members that dont come and visit this thread directly.

New Istanbul Airport Tender Awarded (by LAXintl May 3 2013 in Civil Aviation)

=

From airporthaber;
RTE says Tokyo flights to go 3 x daily.
I think he signed the nuclear reactor tender with the Japanese partner yesterday.
We know that TK doesn't have the metal yet, but is there demand for 3 x daily? Even in a decade?

More news from TK:
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...hyden-yeni-havalimani-hamlesi.html

TK's Hamdi TOPCU;
-3 x daily flights to JFK is not enough, might have to make a decision by the end of the year for 380/748, the same number of pax could be carried with 2 flights instead of 3.
-TK will fly to Caracas, Havana and Mexico City in 2013.
-TK marketing budget is up to $130M annually.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 23): RTE says Tokyo flights to go 3 x daily. I think he signed the nuclear reactor tender with the Japanese partner yesterday. We know that TK doesn't have the metal yet, but is there demand for 3 x daily? Even in a decade?

Maybe what they meant to say was Japan was going to go 3x daily.

At the moment TK is limited to 14x weekly frequencies to Japan. With the nuclear deal maybe Japan will allow TK to add another 7 frequencies. I know TK for long has tried to reschedule its NRT flight to match its other Far-East services, but due to NRT slot issues has been stuck with a schedule that is not optimized for IST hub connections.

So if TK can manage another set of NRT slots that would be great. Also I would not mind another Japan service point like Nagoya for example, though I think the priority should be NRT.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 24): TK's Hamdi TOPCU; -3 x daily flights to JFK is not enough, might have to make a decision by the end of the year for 380/748, the same number of pax could be carried with 2 flights instead of 3.

Well as I have been saying for the last 5-years JFK was one of the only few markets where VLA could be supported based on analysis TK performed.

So suppose its really going to come down to making a decision of either going for more frequencies with all the A330/777s on the way, or indeed opt for a VLA.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 24): -TK marketing budget is up to $130M annually.

Up from $100mil previously. I guess we can expect to see lots more TK billboards, TV adds etc..

I hear Saga Airlines shut down or was grounded by the DGCA due financial issues.

Hi,

are there already hints of which airplane will get painted in Borussia Dortmund colors?

Thanks,
Jan

Quoting TK787 (Reply 24): TK's Hamdi TOPCU; -3 x daily flights to JFK is not enough, might have to make a decision by the end of the year for 380/748, the same number of pax could be carried with 2 flights instead of 3.

Does this justify getting a new - that too a VLA? How many other routes would need it?

The other way to deal with this might be increasing 77W frequencies as new frames come in ... eventually, something like a CX style 4 daily HKG-JFK flights? The added frequencies and consistent product offering (rather than using 333) will have its advantages too.

Quoting JMO-777 (Reply 27): which airplane will get painted in Borussia Dortmund colors?

I bet only a 77W will do. Since Barca and ManU planes need a new paint job after those sponsorships end.

Quoting ASA (Reply 28): Does this justify getting a new - that too a VLA? How many other routes would need it?

JFK. Also he mentions China routes and HKG. Maybe LAX?

-Also to take into consideration; if Comfort Class goes away, this would result in more seats and if TK decides to go 10 abreast then even a bigger capacity increase.
-In the next 5 years, till the new airport opens, TK has to keep up with the arrival of new planes and still increasing capacity by up-gauging and move more routes to SAW.

TK is going ahead with plans to open more routes. 4 more this month;
Isparta (Domestic), Santiago De Compostela, Malta and Salzburg.

What happened to Abha and Asmara, they were also planned for May?

IST-KTM-IST is open for sales in GDS to be operated by a 330-200 as of 01SEP

Quoting Steelyman (Reply 31): IST-KTM-IST is open for sales in GDS to be operated by a 330-200 as of 01SEP

Cool,
Cross another destination from the wish list.
I think it is slightly out of the range for TK 739ERs.

[Edited 2013-05-08 10:52:50]

Quoting Steelyman (Reply 31):

Thanks! Happen to have access to the schedule?

ISTKTM: .2.45.7 2145IST 0715*1 TK 726 3HF
KTMIST: 1.3.56. 0845 1340IST TK 727 3HF

For 739ER below you can see the comparison between 739ER range vs ISTKTM segment distance. It looks like it would make it, but I guess that because of flt plan longer routes, alternates, contingency fuel, etc, it makes more sense to send a 332 ...

mapktm

Quoting Steelyman (Reply 34): or 739ER below you can see the comparison between 739ER range vs ISTKTM segment distance. It looks like it would make it, but I guess that because of flt plan longer routes, alternates, contingency fuel, etc, it makes more sense to send a 332 ...

Thanks for the map!

Also, Trivuban airport (KTM) is at an elevation of 4400 ft ... eating into the payload / range of 739ER

Quoting Steelyman (Reply 34): ISTKTM: .2.45.7 2145IST 0715*1 TK 726 3HF KTMIST: 1.3.56. 0845 1340IST TK 727 3HF

These timings will 100% have to be changed due to visibility issues and fog at KTM between OCT and MAR. Even in SEP, the earliest u can arrive is at 0815am.

On the other hand though good move by TK as it will get a lot of traffic from Europe and JFK bound to KTM.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 36): On the other hand though good move by TK as it will get a lot of traffic from Europe and JFK bound to KTM

Indeed a great move. TK will become the fastest option in many European markets. QR will not be thrilled at this move. I can see this flight go daily very soon.

I think this is from ch-aviation.ch but found it quoted elsewhere with no reference:

"myCargo Airlines (9T, Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST)) has retired its last four remaining A300 freighters (three A300B4-203(F)s and one A300B4-103(F)) in mid-March. Once a prolific Airbus operator, myCargo and its predecessor, ACT Airlines (9T, Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST)), had a fleet of seven A300B4 freighters and for a short time only, a single A300-600(F). For the meantime, the Turkish carrier will continue operations with its two B747-400(F)s, one of which will be wet-leased to the Cargo division of Saudia (SV, Jeddah King Abdul Aziz (JED)) from later this month (replacing the ULS Airlines Cargo (GO, Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International (IST)) A310-300(F) TC-SGM (c/n 592) that has recently been returned by Saudia Cargo). "

So no more ACT brand.

Yes the A300's were grounded.

But the companies name is still ACT Airlines.

Very interesting:

LH 1781 MUC-ADB flight diverted to Cigli Air Force Airbase due to fuel critical.

Plane is now waiting at airbase.

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...hansa-ucagi-cigliye-dar-dustu.html (Turkish)

I see TK is introducing the Do&Co flying chef concept on the 14x weekly Dubai services.

TK now has 222 Do&Co flying chefs serving 16 markets.

I guess TK has abandoned its plan of opening further Indian destinations?

Its not a question of abandoning anything, TK as an airline cant do anything until a more liberal air-service agreement is reached between the governments.
So if this happens in 2013 or 2023, TK will seek to take advantage of it.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43): Its not a question of abandoning anything, TK as an airline cant do anything until a more liberal air-service agreement is reached between the governments. So if this happens in 2013 or 2023, TK will seek to take advantage of it.

What is the main problem right now in liberalising the air services agreement?

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 44):

The Government of India.

Has anyone seen this? http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...a-kurulundan-sok-kotil-karari.html (Turkish)
It seems TK management is in the midst of a crisis. Don't you also think lately news surrounding TK government make it look like an airline in total crisis, debt and etc. and trying to a find a way out e.g. Alitalia? Bad publicity.

Quoting boun (Reply 46): Has anyone seen this? http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...a-kurulundan-sok-kotil-karari.html (Turkish)

Well, the link doesnt work, but I saw this;

http://ekonomi.milliyet.com.tr/thy-d.../ekonomi/detay/1707259/default.htm

says;

"Türk Hava Yolları (THY), 15 Mayıs tarihinde sendikanın başlatacağı ‘grev’ ile boğuştuğu bir dönemde sürpriz yönetim kriziyle karşı karşıya. Edinilen bilgilere göre THY Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Hamdi Topçu, cuma günü THY Genel Müdürü Temel Kotil‘i ücretli izne çıkardı. Bu kararı Londra’da öğrenen Temel Kotil’in THY’nin sponsoru olduğu basketbol turnuvası için gittiği finallerden acilen geri döndüğü belirtiliyor."

We all heard the news about Kotil and Topcu not getting along time to time, but this is big. From my experience this is a primary school type of management which doesnt go together with an airline which is trying to become 5*.

Pegasus will launch a new service from Istanbul (SAW) to Athens from 29th June and the service will be daily.
Flights are open for booking now. The fares are quite good around EUR80 return all in on some dates.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 47): We all heard the news about Kotil and Topcu not getting along time to time, but this is big.

It is early to make a judgement, but if this stuff is true it all makes sense that they give conflicting news recently. About the fleet, Australia flights, lipstick colors and such.
The management might be all from Rize but still, in Turkey Bizans Rules apply.