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LAXintl
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SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:10 pm

DOT awarded Southwest Airlines DCA slot exemptions to operate its proposed new service to Houston’s William P. Hobby Airport from. Reagan National.

These are the slot exemptions became available when Spirit Airlines moved its Washington area service from DCA to BWI.

Press release:
http://www.dot.gov/briefing-room/hou...partment-transportation-slot-award

=
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airliner371
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:11 pm

Finally, and very good news!
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:12 pm

It's about fricken time!!  I'm happy to see the slot go to WN and give UA a run for their money on the D.C.-Houston route. Is it safe to assume a 738 will be used?
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LAXintl
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:19 pm

And for the record the competing request were for US Airways to OKC and JetBlue to JAX.

On the Southwest aircraft, should be the 737-700, that is what they told the DOT they would utilize back in December with the original application.

They also included following proposed schedule:

HOU-DCA 1025-1420
DCA-HOU 1500-1720

=
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sdoyon
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:20 pm

Great news! This brings WN/FL to 6x ATL, 4x MKE, 2x STL, 1x AUS, 1x RSW, 1x MCO and 1x HOU.
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:23 pm

I'll be curious to see how "low-cost" this WN service actually ends up being... for people in my office, no way will it be feasible to go with the airline that might charge a bit less but has one flight a day each way.

I hope US does start OKC anyway but who knows.
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
dumbell2424
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:34 pm

Perhaps I'm wrong, and hopefully someone can clarify, but isn't the perimeter at DCA 1,250 statue miles?

Using this tool: http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm centered on DCA and 1250 mi radius, it would seem that HOU is just inside. Or is there is nuance in the perimeter rule that I am not aware of?

http://puu.sh/2OGdx.png

Thanks for any clarification  
 
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LAXintl
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:40 pm

Yes Houston is within the perimeter rule.
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SouthernDC9
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 6):
Perhaps I'm wrong, and hopefully someone can clarify, but isn't the perimeter at DCA 1,250 statue miles?

Using this tool: http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm centered on DCA and 1250 mi radius, it would seem that HOU is just inside. Or is there is nuance in the perimeter rule that I am not aware of?

These slots were for an inside-the-perimeter flight, is that what you're wondering? The last major slot kerfuffle featured outside-the-perimeter opportunities...
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
ouboy79
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 3:45 pm

Glad finally over. I just wish WN put forth the effort with the OKC application last time around like they did with this. Something tells me though that the goal was to just tee up for the HOU bid.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 4:31 pm

DOT is out with its reasoning as to why SWA best met the award objectives:

o Promoting competitive air service on currently high fare monopoly market
o Largest pool of travellers could benefit from the new service
o Offering large aircraft
o Strong connection opportunities beyond HOU
o Limited incumbent carrier with fewer than 40 slot exemptions at DCA

Proposed final schedule is due within 10-days in order to coordinate slot allocation with the FAA.
Start up, no later than August 5, 2013.

OST-2000-7182

[Edited 2013-05-07 09:34:01]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ouboy79
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 4:40 pm

Here is a direct link to the ruling document to make it easier for people.

http://www.regulations.gov/contentSt...osition=attachment&contentType=pdf
 
AWACSooner
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 5:37 pm

So they wanted OKC-DCA and got rejected...instead they try HOU-DCA and it works...meanwhile, OKC gets the shaft yet again! AARGH!
 
ouboy79
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 5:49 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 12):

So they wanted OKC-DCA and got rejected...instead they try HOU-DCA and it works...meanwhile, OKC gets the shaft yet again! AARGH!

They had a massive write in campaign though for HOU similar to what they did for AUS, which they didn't for OKC. IMO, OKC was the setup to have a losing bid so they would get more favor the next time around.

US Airways could have won the bid, but they shot themselves in the foot. The major red flag...

Quote:
In contrast, US Airways made no mention of offering low-fare service in its application, instead stating that fares would be “competitive with current OKC-Washington and OKC-Charlotte fares.” In addition, US Airways proposes to operate the route with 99-seat E-190 aircraft. This is the smallest proposed aircraft in this proceeding and would not utilize the available capacity at DCA as efficiently as the Southwest or JetBlue proposals to use 143-seat and 150-seat aircraft respectively. Moreover, US Airways’ application stated that the route may be operated from time to time by its regional affiliates, which would use even smaller aircraft. Given these factors, we do not believe the merits of US Airways’ application with respect to Section 41718(b)(5) reach those of either Southwest’s or JetBlue’s applications.

Had they committed to mainline service on an A-319 with the push to lower air fares, not be competitive with current fares, the DOT wouldn't have disregarded them right away. Of course sitting on a ton of existing DCA slots doesn't help either. LOL From reading the decision, it was between JAX and HOU and they sided with the city that would have the largest market to impact.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 6:04 pm

So basically, OKC gets used as a political pawn...ugh!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 6:06 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
DOT is out with its reasoning as to why SWA best met the award objectives:

Last but not least, whatever baby wants, baby gets. 
I don't take responsibility at all
 
dumbell2424
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 8):
These slots were for an inside-the-perimeter flight, is that what you're wondering? The last major slot kerfuffle featured outside-the-perimeter opportunities...

Ah...thanks!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 13):
They had a massive write in campaign though for HOU similar to what they did for AUS, which they didn't for OKC.

I don't think write in campaigns make much of a difference.

Here's what makes a difference:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Had they committed to mainline service on an A-319 with the push to lower air fares, not be competitive with current fares, the DOT wouldn't have disregarded them right away. Of course sitting on a ton of existing DCA slots doesn't help either.

US has more slots than they know what to do with. Keep in mind, they've already canned a few flights from the slots they got from DL. They could easily add OKC.
 
usscvr
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 9:04 pm

In lay terms, what is the DCA 1250 mile rule?
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill
 
usscvr
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 9:14 pm

In lay terms, what is the DCA 1250 mile rule?

Forgive the double post. I got a 'forum' error, and it posted twice.

[Edited 2013-05-07 14:20:43]
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill
 
capitalflyer
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 9:49 pm

Good Lord they took forever to make this happen. Glad HOU is the choice, not Florida or US who has too many slots as it is.

Next on to the impending slot divestment to grease the AA/US merger. I hope at some point WN gets a couple daily frequencies to MDW. Perhaps up to PVD to compete against the Shuttle as well?
 
airliner371
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 10:04 pm

 
lemonkitty
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 10:05 pm

SWA does AUS-DCA..That seems to be out of the perimeter rule..
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airliner371
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 10:07 pm

Quoting lemonkitty (Reply 22):
SWA does AUS-DCA..That seems to be out of the perimeter rule..

It is an out of perimeter slot, see the link above.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 13):
IMO, OKC was the setup to have a losing bid so they would get more favor the next time around

Southwest seems to be so good at awards i wouldn't be surprised if that is exactly why they applied for OKC. It was a win-win long shot they could have operated profitably but it was really just a perfect setup to be more likely to win the award they really wanted HOU.

Southwest is a really smart sometimes and a well run airline. I was personally not shocked at all that in the middle of a merger they have had very few passenger disruptions and raked in a solid profit. Airtran is taking forever but they are taking no risk super slow molasses merge approach. United rushed it too much.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 11:05 pm

Congrats to WN! So, without laying a finger on the FL pool of DCA slots, WN has managed to start nonstop services from DCA to AUS, STL, and now HOU. At this point, even in a worst case scenario - getting no DCA slots from the AA/US merger - they could still start MDW-DCA at 5x daily without too much trouble (i.e. reducing ATL-DCA to 3x daily and MKE-DCA to 2x daily). Then again, WN probably wants to start DAL-DCA when the Wright Amendment expires, and I'm sure any additional DCA slots they can get will be put to good use - BNA, MCI, MSY, extra HOU frequencies, etc. At this point, I'm not sure WN wants to contest B6 on the DCA-Florida routes...

P.S. Does anyone know if the FL DCA-MCO slot is Air-21, or otherwise tied to MCO? I read on a.net recently that the Air-21 slot for DCA-RSW can be shifted to PBI or FLL without a new proceeding. It will be interesting to see what WN does with the DCA slots supporting 1x daily MCO and 1x daily RSW. I don't see ATL-DCA staying at 6x daily, but they may want to keep MKE-DCA at 4x daily since they have a monopoly on it. Reducing frequency might invite competition like US/AA to start the route...
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airliner371
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Tue May 07, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 25):
reducing ATL-DCA to 3x daily and MKE-DCA to 2x daily)

I believe a few ATL slots are specific to ATL but not sure how many.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 25):
Does anyone know if the FL DCA-MCO slot is Air-21,

It is not.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 25):
the Air-21 slot for DCA-RSW can be shifted to PBI or FLL without a new proceeding.

That is correct, they just have to notify the DOT.
 
wnflyguy
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 12:05 am

With this new award I would LUV to see HOU-SJU tied into this good news.
SJU-HOU 0640-0945
HOU-DCA 1025-1420
DCA-HOU 1500-1720
HOU-SJU 1750-0020.

wnfg  
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ouboy79
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 2:12 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 27):
With this new award I would LUV to see HOU-SJU tied into this good news.

That would be a pretty terrible routing. Any sensible person is, instead, going to route over ATL or MCO first before back tracking across the country.
 
allegiantflyer
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 2:54 am

Honnestly i wanted AA to get the slots,I mean how cool would it be to have the merged company with the name AMERICAN with a larger presence in the actual District Of Columbia  Wow!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 3:00 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):

The fact that the DOT hasn't made US hand over 20-50 DCA slots to WN....just cause...is a little surprising to me.   

Ah hell they'll get them when the merger comes.   
 
B757capt
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 3:27 am

Guess I'm the ony one that's not happy WN got the route.

I would have liked to see OKC win this. Furthermore it would have added additional routes to CLT from OKC.

Oh well now we sit back and watch UA dump the pricing on the route.
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wnflyguy
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 4:03 am

Quoting b757capt (Reply 31):

You and 95% of everyone else on A.net.
I'm not shocked to see the haters come out on this or anything else WN.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 28):

The HOU-SJU is just a tag on A/C FLOW not intended for a one stop or connection from DCA to SJU.
Of course ATL and MCO make better connecting points to SJU from DCA.
WN just added 2 used 737-700 to the fleet.
One being used for new BOS-HOU service
The other one was sitting idle waiting for the out come on this judgement.
With this extra A/C has idle time at both ends of the DCA turn to add something else.
My thinking and wish was tag on SJU connecting it to the west markets easier via HOU.
I could also be happy with this A/C going to RIC,CLT,DAY ,PNS or MEM.
wnfg  

[Edited 2013-05-07 21:07:38]
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
AWACSooner
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 7:24 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 24):
United rushed it too much.

Oh, that was the least of their problems...*cough* customer service *cough*

Quoting b757capt (Reply 31):
Guess I'm the ony one that's not happy WN got the route.

I would have liked to see OKC win this. Furthermore it would have added additional routes to CLT from OKC.

No you weren't. As much as I love WN...OKC deserved this much more than HOU.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 12:31 pm

Why did it take so long to award ONE slot pair?

This is the epitomy of government ineptitude.

In any event, congrats WN. I am hoping WN and B6 see their slot portfolio expand at DCA and LGA with merger mania entering round 4.
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 1:12 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 33):
No you weren't. As much as I love WN...OKC deserved this much more than HOU.

But can't US start DCA-OKC if they want to, using one of their current slots?
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
sdoyon
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 35):
But can't US start DCA-OKC if they want to, using one of their current slots?

You betcha.
 
ouboy79
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting AllegiantFlyer (Reply 29):

Honnestly i wanted AA to get the slots,I mean how cool would it be to have the merged company with the name AMERICAN with a larger presence in the actual District Of Columbia  

AA would have had to apply for them first.  
Quoting b757capt (Reply 31):
Guess I'm the ony one that's not happy WN got the route.

I would have liked to see OKC win this. Furthermore it would have added additional routes to CLT from OKC.

I was torn on this one. Wish the best for the signer of the paycheck or new service for the hometown.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 32):
The HOU-SJU is just a tag on A/C FLOW not intended for a one stop or connection from DCA to SJU.

Then you don't understand the reason why WN does tags. In the earnings conference call they use them to measure the ability to offer nonstop service. They pointed out 1-stop DAL-ATL is surpassing the performance of FL's previous nonstop DFW-ATL service. This indicates to them that the market would likely be able to support nonstop service when possible. I wouldn't be shocked if AUS-MSY was a similar case.

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 35):
But can't US start DCA-OKC if they want to, using one of their current slots?

Of course. Will they? Of course not.   I believe OKC is the largest city within perimeter right now without service. Crazy considering the large government presence in OKC.
 
ScottB
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Last but not least, whatever baby wants, baby gets.

You mean like the way they got DCA-OKC when they applied for it last year?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
The fact that the DOT hasn't made US hand over 20-50 DCA slots to WN....just cause...is a little surprising to me.

You mean like the way DCA & LGA slots got handed over to WN when the slots were auctioned off due to the US/DL transaction? Oh, wait...

Quoting b757capt (Reply 31):
Oh well now we sit back and watch UA dump the pricing on the route.

Isn't this basically one of the key reasons DOT awarded this pair of exemptions to WN:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
DOT is out with its reasoning as to why SWA best met the award objectives:

o Promoting competitive air service on currently high fare monopoly market
Quoting b757capt (Reply 31):
I would have liked to see OKC win this. Furthermore it would have added additional routes to CLT from OKC.

If DCA-OKC were really that big of a priority for US, they could have used a slot pair out of their already enormous pool of slots. They operate 6 daily round-trips between DCA & ORF even though the O&D in the market is practically non-existent (it's faster to drive).
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 7:55 pm

Quoting b757capt (Reply 31):
I would have liked to see OKC win this. Furthermore it would have added additional routes to CLT from OKC.

To me it seems that US might have been just a bit too cute with their CLT-OKC non sequitur - that route had absolutely less than nothing to do with the DCA-OKC proposal, as neither CLT nor OKC are slot controlled and US could open that station yesterday if they wanted to. It was like some completely flawed ransom demand - "Give us this route or this route gets it" - but with a an essentially imaginary hostage. That combined with the slot panhandling by an airline with a stockpile of slots had to have struck somebody as a a bit ridiculous. (That said I think OKC was ultimately the most deserving of any of the three cities involved, they just had a bummer of a date to this particular dance.)
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
HPRamper
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Wed May 08, 2013 10:34 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 32):
You and 95% of everyone else on A.net.
I'm not shocked to see the haters come out on this or anything else WN.

It's not really as much about WN as it is about a route with no service losing out to a route with already-existing service. It's a divisive issue on A.net.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 37):
Of course. Will they? Of course not. I believe OKC is the largest city within perimeter right now without service. Crazy considering the large government presence in OKC.

Eh, I bet OKC gets their DCA flight within a couple years.
 
airliner371
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 4:42 am

Flights are now on sale beginning August 4.
 
iowaman
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 5:16 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 41):
Flights are now on sale beginning August 4.

DCA-HOU 1600-1720
HOU-DCA 1100-1400

Not exactly a good schedule for a business traveler, but decent enough to offer connections. Checking random dates in August on some days the non-stop is more expensive than a connection through ATL. Flights are on 143 seat 737-700's.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 7:17 am

Well I would think SAT-DCA would be much more popular than a OKC flight.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 12:31 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 38):
They operate 6 daily round-trips between DCA & ORF even though the O&D in the market is practically non-existent (it's faster to drive).

Non-existent? Hard to believe since ORF-IAD flights are frequently sold out.

Btw, I did an AAA Triptik for ORF-DCA and got 2 hr 58 mn for the 190 mile trip.

But the USX flight is 55 minutes. How do you figure it's faster to drive?
 
ouboy79
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 12:39 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 43):
Well I would think SAT-DCA would be much more popular than a OKC flight.

Then you don't understand the significant federal government presence in OKC.  
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 44):
But the USX flight is 55 minutes. How do you figure it's faster to drive?

Don't forget to add in the time to drive to the airport, park the car, check in, get through security, wait for flight, claim bag at destination, get rental car (if any), drive to destination.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 2:28 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 45):
Don't forget to add in the time to drive to the airport, park the car, check in, get through security, wait for flight, claim bag at destination, get rental car (if any), drive to destination.

Meaning no disrespect, driving from DC to Norfolk is a chore -- not a freeway speedfest (as anyone who actually made the drive would tell you).

Otherwise, you lost me -- how is there a way to catch any plane without driving to the airport?
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 44):
But the USX flight is 55 minutes. How do you figure it's faster to drive?

I'd assume he meant adding in travel time to airport, time waiting prior to departure, and travel time to final destination after DC arrival. Plus, I bet the drive is 1/10th what anyone would charge to fly ORF-DC area.

As for ORF-IAD sell outs, prob 95% are xfer pax, meaning their O & D statement is true.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 47):
I'd assume he meant
Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 47):
prob 95% are xfer pax

Again, meaning no disrespect, "I'd assume" and "probably" don't really add to the discourse.
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2808
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: SWA Wins DCA Slot Award

Sun May 19, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 48):
Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 47):
prob 95% are xfer pax

Again, meaning no disrespect, "I'd assume" and "probably" don't really add to the discourse.

As far as the "probably" statement goes, you can go here:

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

Look at Table 1A and scroll down to IAD - ORF. It tells you the average number of O&D passengers per day who are flying between Norfolk and Washington Dulles.

Q1 2012 - 10 passengers per day or 5 in each direction
Q2 2012 - 10 passengers per day or 5 in each direction.
Q3 2012 - 12.28 passengers per day or 6.14 in each direction
Q4 2012 - 11.30 passengers per day or 5.65 in each direction.

If UA's ORF-IAD flights are frequently sold out, it isn't because of O&D passengers. It's because people are flying to IAD and making a connection to go somewhere else.

LoneStarMike

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos