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michaeljp
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:30 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Thu May 16, 2013 5:22 pm

@ ojas, I didnt specifically state that you were ridiculing crew per se, however you are correct in saying that half of my post related to crew treatment for which I apologise once again as per in my post.

Although I did mention a token would be greatly appreciated by all staff or those of whom did not receive anything considering the revenue stream plus the profit share target has been set even higher for the next year, I'm sure with the impending runway closure at DXB it will be hard to attain the profit share once more.
For staff meaning what I estimate to be 3 years without running.

@sankaps I quite frankly don't know what to say. So as someone said if you don't have anything useful to say - don't say it, so I wont.
Although that acronym is not used to be...still is...although there are several different versions to which I shall not repeat.
The posts regarding crew lifestyle granted I saw earlier in the thread however did not perceive them as a sweeping statement. I would say a good proportion don't go to BAH to party especially recently, although you will find a lot of crew without family etc will attempt to leave on days because a good proportion of crew cannot stand to be in Dubai on days off for various reasons.

All the best

[Edited 2013-05-16 10:28:08]

[Edited 2013-05-16 10:29:31]
 
lastrow
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Thu May 16, 2013 5:36 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 97):
But to compare the conditions subcontinental workers plod in (which is endorsed and actively covered up by the gulf authorities no less) to western porn actresses? Haha dude seriously?


what is your point with that kind of western actresses? I think you try to make a point that unfairness is everywhere and therefore no issue to complain here?

please read the initial posting:

Quoting Quokkas (Thread starter):
In their advertising to attract staff, Emirates have traditionally emphasized that in addition to the basic wage, flying allowances and housing benefits, staff can expect to gain from a generous bonus as part of a profit-sharing scheme. This year, for the consecutive year, Emirates have decided not to award a bonus.

a post like for example (just an example, I think several people expressed this):

Quoting sankaps (Reply 54):
this is not at all a case of staff being "cheated" out of their bonuses. A profit target was set for profit sharing bonuses. The target was not met. So no bonus. No foul play here, it is not like the goalposts were moved after the fact.

is just misleading; it was not the discussion that a particular element of compensation did not apply because of not reaching predefined targets. It is that EK appears to advertise bonuses "to be expected", so the question is how do they deal with setting their targets.

[Edited 2013-05-16 11:37:27]
 
catiii
Posts: 3871
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Thu May 16, 2013 6:27 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 76):
Forecasts are NEVER adjusted during a fiscal year.


You sure about that? Just one example:

SkyWest Inc (Nasdaq:SKYW) has revised its forecast for the first quarter of 2009, stating that it expects its financial results for the quarter to be lower than perviously anticipated.

Consolidated net income for the quarter is now expected to be between USD4.5m and USD7.5m, with earnings per diluted share estimated to be between USD0.08 and USD0.13.

According to SkyWest, four main factors have contributed to the company changing its forecast: its wholly-owned subsidiary, Atlantic Southeast Airlines Inc (ASA), cancelled around 750 more flights than normal during the quarter as a result of weather conditions and aircraft groundings; SkyWest expects to record a charge of around USD7.0m pre-tax related to an impairment; ASA and SkyWest Airlines are incurring non-engine maintenance costs and excess crew expenses as a result of reducing block hour schedules, resulting in SkyWest expending an extra USD11.5m pre-tax for these expenses in the fourth quarter 2009; and SkyWest has been using Delta Air Lines' (NYSE:DAL) preliminary rate estimate as the basis for estimating Delta contract revenues in the quarter, which could result in a negative impact to revenues of around USD5.0m pre-tax, as a result of ASA and SkyWest airlines being involved in rate negotiations with Delta.

The company plans to publish its financial results for the first quarter of 2009 on 6 May 2009.
 
ojas
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Thu May 16, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 102):
You sure about that? Just one example:

SkyWest Inc (Nasdaq:SKYW) has revised its forecast for the first quarter of 2009, stating that it expects its financial results for the quarter to be lower than perviously anticipated.

Yes, what you are talking about is company performance forecast; which is not the forecast per se in the discussion. The forecast in discussion was the profit target set for employees which is never altered during the year.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22094
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Thu May 16, 2013 6:46 pm

What was the set threshold for profit sharing? I've missed out on it before when the company missed by 10%. That sucks, but what was the goal set for that fiscal year?

Obviously, I would like to see the profit sharing paid. (Who doesn't like money?) Btu as long as workers were paid on time their promised salary.   

I didn't receive my profit sharing last year as I switched companies mid-year. (Neither pay profit sharing on partial years.)   Cest la vie. Either the mark is met or not...

Quoting ojas (Reply 96):
When it comes to Profit Sharing, it is everyone or no one, whether you want to believe it or not.

And is on a contractural basis. While the executive might get a larger chunk of the pool if there is profit sharing, its the same zero if there is no profit sharing.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 90):
For a lot of people the job, pay, and work rules are pretty spectacular compared to their alternatives

   Which is why Indians are pushing their government to have Dubai open up more slots. But Dubai now mandates that 'guest workers' travel home periodically. So until there are more flight rights to India, Dubai will pick up their guest workers from elsewhere.

Dubai hires from India, Pakistan, Philippines, Bangladesh, Germany, Britain, Australia, Korea, and other regions. If there conditions weren't competitive, they wouldn't be able to hire.

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 93):
Surely you guys know about the conditions subcontinental workers are kept in?

Yes. Worse than what I lived through in college/grad school but *better* than many had at home. Expose problems! This is how the West solved their labor issues.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Fri May 17, 2013 12:56 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 86):
I certainly have and would take "human-like" service provided by cabin crews of KL, LX, OK or AY any day instead of robotical, stressed out, obviously living in a fear crews of EK and especially QR.

And how conveniently you left SQ out which has same traits?

EK crew fearful? I have come across annoyingly friendly crew in them, stressed out crew? seen that on many other airlines with lax customer service standards including those here in Pakistan.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6309
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Fri May 17, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 105):
And how conveniently you left SQ out which has same traits?

Ummm.... maybe because I have not flown with them?  
 
PanAm747LHR
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:58 pm

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Fri May 17, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 40):
Again false information. During the first 6 months, you are entitled to an ID50 ticket for yourself. It's just that you are not entitled to fly subload. And this too is explicitly stated in the contract, so again the accusation is pointless.

And flying subload is exactly what I was talking about, which you knew but you wanted to argue. ONE ID50 does not amount to full staff travel privileges on your own airline, which I have had from day one with every other airline I've flown with.

Quoting ojas (Reply 40):
Was EK obligated to give you downtown hotels only? Don't you think it is wiser to have hotels near to the airport so that they can be ushered to the hotel as quick as possible so that they get maximum rest. At a layover point isn't sufficient rest more desirable than sightseeing opportunities?

EK was by no means obligated to give their crews downtown hotels, but that is largely the standard in the industry, especially when laying over for 24 hours or longer. "Ushering the crew as quick as possible" to a hotel to get rest is important when you're laying over for 12 hours, not for 24 or 48. Maybe resting is more important than sightseeing, but if so, why don't the EK Recruiters tell the people who come to the cattle calls "sleep all over the world and get well rested in airport hotels with Emirates!" A huge part of their recruitment spiel is that you go out and see the world - this is one more way that you get sold one thing and given another. EK stays at the airport in SFO, LAX, CDG, LHR, MAN, LGW, CGK, FCO, AMS, and those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Quoting ojas (Reply 40):
I'm sorry, your rants are more of an ex-employee getting back at EK by posting half baked information. Reality, is different.

I'm not ranting, rather I'm providing people with information that they wouldn't otherwise have. Information that I have because I actually worked at EK and experienced all of the above, for better or worse: the working conditions, travel benefits, recruitment process, overall poor treatment by management at the company. I went through all of that, and because it is relevant, I'm sharing it. The information is not half baked and the reality is not different, as you and others have confirmed here. What is interesting is that your signature "A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep" is exactly the kind of arrogant, ignorant attitude that Emirates management has adopted and the same attitude that has resulted in threads like these being posted. EK Management view their work groups as sheep and have no interest in doing anything but bettering their own conditions whatever the cost to the "sheep" that keep their operation running on a day to day basis.
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Fri May 17, 2013 11:20 pm

Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 107):
And flying subload is exactly what I was talking about, which you knew but you wanted to argue. ONE ID50 does not amount to full staff travel privileges on your own airline, which I have had from day one with every other airline I've flown with.

This restriction is for the first 6 months only and is fully disclosed by EK. It is really such a big deal at the end of the day?
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Fri May 17, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 96):
And I need not tell you what sort of exploitation happens in India under the name of democracy. It is far worse, far brazen and far brutal than any form of exploitation known to humanity. Seeing youtube and formulating opinions about Dubai is same as seeing porn and forming opinions about Western people. Today a girl is a million times safer in Doha than she is in Delhi. But let us keep this discussion out from here as this is not relevant to the topic.

Well said.

And not only India, but Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, and many others.

How many countries have no welfare, no minimum wage, no equal pay, no pensions, no care for the disabled?

In how many countries is it legal to exploit children and women?

The aviation industry is helping to raise the bar, and expectations, for men and women. Perhaps not in the opinion of many middle / upper class posters in the West, who receive bonuses and perks (like free medical care), irrespective of their employers financial performance.

As passengers, we can improve airline staff's working lives. I am often ashamed to observe the behaviour of some passengers, who clearly don't understand the words respect and dignity.
 
ojas
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

RE: Emirates Say No Staff Bonus (again)

Sat May 18, 2013 6:05 am

Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 107):
And flying subload is exactly what I was talking about, which you knew but you wanted to argue. ONE ID50 does not amount to full staff travel privileges on your own airline, which I have had from day one with every other airline I've flown with.

I was not avoiding that at all. What you pointed out as "silly" to not fly your own airline is what I was referring to. Also it is not ONE ID50, it is any number of ID50s during the 6 month tenure. And really, does it really make a catastrophic difference for 6 months of your service? And all this too is well known before hand, therefore that argument does not hold any merit whatsoever.

Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 107):
EK was by no means obligated to give their crews downtown hotels, but that is largely the standard in the industry, especially when laying over for 24 hours or longer. "Ushering the crew as quick as possible" to a hotel to get rest is important when you're laying over for 12 hours, not for 24 or 48. Maybe resting is more important than sightseeing, but if so, why don't the EK Recruiters tell the people who come to the cattle calls "sleep all over the world and get well rested in airport hotels with Emirates!" A huge part of their recruitment spiel is that you go out and see the world - this is one more way that you get sold one thing and given another. EK stays at the airport in SFO, LAX, CDG, LHR, MAN, LGW, CGK, FCO, AMS, and those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Thank you, if EK is no way obligated to do so, there is not further discussion on this count either. Besides someone already mentioned that EK has their share of downtown hotels, so there you go. Of course, the reason why you may not want to mention those is; either you must have visited those places or you are not keen to visit them for whatever reason. For all the crew friends I have an Emirates, I see bucketloads of pictures taken n their layovers to the aforementioned destinations.

Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 107):
Information that I have because I actually worked at EK and experienced all of the above, for better or worse: the working conditions, travel benefits, recruitment process, overall poor treatment by management at the company. I went through all of that, and because it is relevant, I'm sharing it. The information is not half baked and the reality is not different, as you and others have confirmed here. What is interesting is that your signature "A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep" is exactly the kind of arrogant, ignorant attitude that Emirates management has adopted and the same attitude that has resulted in threads like these being posted. EK Management view their work groups as sheep and have no interest in doing anything but bettering their own conditions whatever the cost to the "sheep" that keep their operation running on a day to day basis.

And how is this related to the topic at hand? Was this thread about working conditions in the ME or Emirates? My sole argument throughout has been strictly based on the OPs article and it is you who sought this opportunity to rant against EK. I would have really been all ears to know, but given the misinformation you have been posting here, it becomes all the more difficult to believe a lot what you are saying. Employee - Management disagreements will always remain, no denying that as everyone wants to have certain things their own way. What I see is more of a cultural shock more than anything else, coupled with some policies not exactly what you were expecting.

I repeat myself, I really feel for all front end customer facing staff and really appreciate the tasks they face on a daily basis. And on may occasions it is because of the understanding I had, the crew of various airlines have delivered the best possible to service to me without asking for much. It is all about human interactions.
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