dforce1
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First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Sat May 18, 2013 6:37 am

LOVE SEEING THIS! CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THEM UP CLOSE IN VICTORIA & NANAIMO!

Hope one of our great photographers will be able to capture some additional angles soon  
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Sat May 18, 2013 6:43 am

Meh. Not bad, but the engines could use a little color since the name on the fuselage is somewhat small.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by all the QX theme -400's.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
HorizonGirl
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Sat May 18, 2013 6:58 am

Hmmmmm.....

I agree with Dave. Perhaps QX's Q400's have us spoiled, or we're both right. Seems like there is too much white space. The engines could have used a little something extra. I'm also surprised with how the logo looks on the tail, as well as the size of the titles on the fuselage.

Either way, I'm excited to see more Q400s in Canada.


Devon
Flying high on the Wings of the Great Northwest!
 
NOWINYOW
Posts: 36
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Sun May 19, 2013 12:15 am

Given WJ current livery on the 737's this one appears to fit. Smart looking bird. Glad to see WJ up the ante in Canadian air travel.

Comparatively speaking, who pays more attention to the outside versus the inside of any aircraft? If the public sees the WJ logo on it's tail AND can recognize the airline from it, then marketing has done its job.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Sun May 19, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting NOWINYOW (Reply 3):
Comparatively speaking, who pays more attention to the outside versus the inside of any aircraft? If the public sees the WJ logo on it's tail AND can recognize the airline from it, then marketing has done its job.

Sure.   But then we'd end up with an even more boring sky.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
FighterPilot
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Mon May 20, 2013 8:31 pm

Hmmm
Interesting, I expected for more from Westjet. Too much white and kinda bland.

Cal   
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
HorizonGirl
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Mon May 20, 2013 9:09 pm

The more I think about it, the "too much white space" impression might have something to do with the engine partially obscuring the titles. It may look much better from another angle. Though I'm a little disappointing that they left a portion of the tail unpainted, that's the thing that really bugs me about this. The 737 has a similar angle in the tail, and they paint their 737's blue down to the point where the tail meets the fuselage. Not keeping that consistent with the Q400 gives it an almost unfinished look.


Devon
Flying high on the Wings of the Great Northwest!
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Mon May 20, 2013 9:32 pm

I still think WF has the best looking Q400s out there


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JoeCanuck
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Mon May 20, 2013 10:52 pm

It's ok but they should have at least put a stripe or some colour on the engines.
What the...?
 
drgmobile
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Tue May 21, 2013 6:13 pm

Am I the only one to notice that the logo appears to be a different color on the tail? I mean, perhaps it's just the photograph but that doesn't look to me like the familiar teal. It's more of a lighter blue.
 
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rikkus67
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Tue May 21, 2013 7:12 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 9):
It's more of a lighter blue.

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drgmobile
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Tue May 21, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 10):

Hmmm... Yes three planes with teal logo. Look closely at the Q400. The teal is visible in the "Jet" on WestJet but the tail appears to just be a slightly lighter blue than the inset part of the logo and NOT teal.
 
rampbro
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Tue May 21, 2013 8:18 pm

The irony of course being that it says 'jet' on the side wall of a turboprop engine.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Tue May 21, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 12):

Turboprop, or in other words, prop jet. It's as much a jet engine as a CFM-56.
What the...?
 
Viscount724
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Tue May 21, 2013 9:42 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 11):
but the tail appears to just be a slightly lighter blue than the inset part of the logo and NOT teal.

Probably just the photo. I can't see any reason for making it different.
 
CapEd388
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Wed May 22, 2013 4:54 am

What I find disappointing is that they did not make use of the "Encore" name, other than the small titles at the front of the aircraft.

They made such a big deal introducing their new subsidiary and announcing the new name, yet they are not making use of that name. Why go through all the trouble of coming up with a "unique" and "creative" name if they are not going to actually use it.
388 346 77W 787
 
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rikkus67
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Wed May 22, 2013 5:19 am

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 11):
Hmmm... Yes three planes with teal logo.

It might just be your monitor.

There are distinct variations of the teal in those three pictures I chose, due to changes in lighting conditions, and the camera being used... From top to bottom: "Medium Blue" Teal, "Almost-Correct" Teal, and "Green" Teal. It's partly the same reasons Air Canada's planes go from Green to Blue.

Any mock-up of the Westjet Q400 has the Teal matching in both the titles, and the tail.... but I guess we will have to see them up close, to know for sure!
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
drgmobile
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Wed May 22, 2013 1:46 pm

Perhaps its the lighting but look at the difference between the tail and the J in the jet.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Wed May 22, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 15):

What I find disappointing is that they did not make use of the "Encore" name, other than the small titles at the front of the aircraft.

They made such a big deal introducing their new subsidiary and announcing the new name, yet they are not making use of that name. Why go through all the trouble of coming up with a "unique" and "creative" name if they are not going to actually use it.

= Why bother? From a fundamental marketing perspective, WestJet remains one of Canada's top brands. A company would be a fool not to use that.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
rampbro
Posts: 494
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Wed May 22, 2013 5:38 pm

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 15):
Why go through all the trouble of coming up with a "unique" and "creative" name if they are not going to actually use it.

Maybe it bombed in the market surveys after it was announced, and this info was fed back into the fleet livery planners in a timely manner?

I personally think 'Encore' is stupid. Canada has had more airlines with cheesy music-themed names than you can shake a stick at.
 
drgmobile
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Wed May 22, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 15):
What I find disappointing is that they did not make use of the "Encore" name, other than the small titles at the front of the aircraft.

They made such a big deal introducing their new subsidiary and announcing the new name, yet they are not making use of that name. Why go through all the trouble of coming up with a "unique" and "creative" name if they are not going to actually use it.

Because it has a separate operating certificate it needed its own name. If you're going to come up with a name, you might as well try to make it a good one. In order to avoid having to have French and English versions -- cause that was a huge pain for Canadian Airlines International/les Lignes aérienne Canadien internationale -- they were pretty limited in what they could come up with.
 
wjv04
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RE: First WestJet Q400 Fully Painted

Wed May 22, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 1):

Meh. Not bad, but the engines could use a little color since the name on the fuselage is somewhat small.
Quoting HorizonGirl (Reply 2):
I agree with Dave. Perhaps QX's Q400's have us spoiled, or we're both right. Seems like there is too much white space. The engines could have used a little something extra. I'm also surprised with how the logo looks on the tail, as well as the size of the titles on the fuselage.
Quoting FighterPilot (Reply 5):
Hmmm
Interesting, I expected for more from Westjet. Too much white and kinda bland.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 8):
It's ok but they should have at least put a stripe or some colour on the engines.

Funny how WestJet fooled us all....Employees and aviation geeks alike. The large corporate model in the lobby of WestJet headquarters actually has black paint at the bottom of the engines. The model showed up a few months ago, so it was a surpise to me when the real aircraft was painted without.

Quoting HorizonGirl (Reply 6):
I'm a little disappointing that they left a portion of the tail unpainted, that's the thing that really bugs me about this. The 737 has a similar angle in the tail, and they paint their 737's blue down to the point where the tail meets the fuselage. Not keeping that consistent with the Q400 gives it an almost unfinished look.

Fooled again... the concept photos after inital order with Bombardier show the tail painted all the way forward.

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 15):
What I find disappointing is that they did not make use of the "Encore" name, other than the small titles at the front of the aircraft.

They made such a big deal introducing their new subsidiary and announcing the new name, yet they are not making use of that name. Why go through all the trouble of coming up with a "unique" and "creative" name if they are not going to actually use it.
Quoting drgmobile (Reply 20):
Because it has a separate operating certificate it needed its own name. If you're going to come up with a name, you might as well try to make it a good one. In order to avoid having to have French and English versions -- cause that was a huge pain for Canadian Airlines International/les Lignes aérienne Canadien internationale -- they were pretty limited in what they could come up with.


From a Business standpoint, It’s of extreme importance WestJet does everything it can to minimize financial risk launching a regional airline to protect the parent company in the event things go south. Marketing wise the obvious way to do so is to market Encore and WestJet as one. The brand "WestJet" has very high recognition within Canada. Casual Canadians will not initially associate "Encore" with "WestJet". There is significant cost savings in marketing doing so.

Going much further in depth......WestJet owns Encore as wholly-owned subsidiary, that is it is legally separated from each other where specifically the assets of Encore can be sought in a worst-case scenario but there is no hope of going after assets of WestJet. WestJet has presumably sent over some cash, and I'm sure they've raised some debt to purchase airplanes and start a new little company, and because its not the same company it needed a different operating certificate and thus a new name. Legal and organizational structure is very important in today's corporate environment.

The umbrella looks like this now, WestJet owns WestJet Vacations Inc., WestJet Investment Corp, WestJet Encore Ltd., and WestJet Operations Corp as separate wholly-owned subsidiaries. All are separated in case of failure, tax purposes, legal issues/structure. Then WestJet Investment(91%) and Operations(9%) own a partnership, the WestJet partnership that runs the airline. Also, there are now 6 Special purpose entities that each own a group of aircraft that is financed by the Export-Import Bank in the US. Again probably separated from the business for specific reasons, like off-balance sheet leasing.

A lot of information about the company is available and updated each year because they are a public company and required to do so, but its a long boring document unless your keen on WestJet. Appropriately, its called the Annual Information Form. Neat things like WestJet actually contracted its capacity in 2012 in the domestic market and therefore all ASM growth was due to trans-border operations. Or that Encore will be owning the Bombardier aircraft, but up to 80% of each aircraft will be mortgaged with EDC (Export Development Canada)--might be a sale-leaseback or just ownership financing. A nice way to increase financial leverage, provide less cash upfront, and make bigger profits with Encore--all while protecting the downside to WestJet.

In a recent presentation WestJet listed their capex commitments for the next few years and when you break it down, the 737's are $41M (I think they are committed to receive 800's for the next little bit) and the Q400s are $20M, both approximate. Boeing lists their 2012 prices at $75 and $90M for the 700 and 800 respectively. In other words, WestJet gets a sweet discount. Might seem like a lot, but RyanAir has actually received discounts in excess of 50% off the list. And just for fun, I suspect the interest costs would be around $250,000 a quarter for each Q400--so you better have a decent income to cover those payments!

[Edited 2013-05-22 12:59:58]

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