mjoelnir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 1:27 pm

The best way to change this situation:

1. Bring in US citizen special lines in other countries. Under staff those lines and be careful that the waiting time never falls below 2 hours. Make no exception for business or first class. Treat frequent travelers with special suspicion. Let passengers traveling for business fill out huge convoluted forms so everybody makes a mistake and you get the possibility to scream at them and send them to the back of the line. Put everybody who complains in solitary confinement for 24 hours.

2. Wait for the US government to make offers to ease international travel. I do not think the wait would be long.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting BoxBoy (Reply 69):
Oh yeah, I had to speak Spanish to get through MIA customs as well. No problem for me, but how messed up is the US?

I had the same experience when I flew FRA-MIA back inthe late 1990s. It was a real shock for someone who was born and raised in the US. I was aware of the strong Latin/Hispanic influence in Southern Florida but having to actually tell the immigration officer "sorry, I don't speak Spanish please repeat your question in English" and then not understanding her English was infuriating.
A330 man.
 
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par13del
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 4:04 pm

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 64):
Could someone detail how US airports without completely remodeling them all could allow intl-intl connections to simply transit through US airports?

They can't, hence the longer it goes the more difficult a situation to resolve.

Quoting by738 (Reply 95):
Yes they do. This was one of the excuses given by MIA immigration, that BA do not care and schedule all their flights to arrive within a few hours and clash with other international arrivals ie LH, AB. If there are any delays on the BA schedule (As there was on my last trip) two 747's worth arrived at the same time.

Been there and can attest to the length of time it takes, and that was before the new hall, perhaps the lack of flexibility on the European side has to do with their slot restricted airports and curfews?
 
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N62NA
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 43):
Unfortunately for MIA, the politicians and their political appointees wanted to punish the people for not forcing their representatives to take their side in the budget battle, so the first services cut were those most detrimental to the public, as they say in the movies, who's laughing now.

100% correct - and from a citizen of The Bahamas no less!

Quoting by738 (Reply 52):
Which is exactly how I felt after a 9 hour flight then almost 3 hours in a queue to be interrogated rudely by border personnel. I will not route through MIA again.

The rudeness is ingrained in the organization - not just at MIA. My friends from Hungary and The Netherlands have had the same rudeness directed at them at JFK, EWR, ATL and RDU (the RDU guy even refused one of my friends entry because "he had been here just 9 months ago" and put him in "CBP holding center" (the county jail) for 2 days until there was space on the next flight back to Europe.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 73):
The "sequester" was only a 2% reduction in CBP's budget... however the fat cats in DC / Administration want to make it as PAINFUL as possible...

Correct.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 85):
A lack of customer first mentality is what causes such problems with TSA and CBP in the US.

They simply don't care. They are Federal government workers, which means there is practically no way they can be fired. Just look what's going on with the current IRS scandal, when everyone who is testifying just goes up there and says "I don't know" and "I wasn't aware of that" and "I'm sorry" and the like. They know they are untouchable.

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 86):
The US government really need to understand that they will loose business and tourism will suffer if they do not allocate sufficient resources to CBP.

See above (they don't care).

Quoting us330 (Reply 99):

Well, the obvious reason is that foreigners don't vote, and so there's no incentive for Congress to care about a population segment that they aren't necessarily accountable.

The problem is partly Congress, but the real problem is that Congress just writes the rather broad (comparatively speaking) laws. The laws then go to the bureaucrats at the agencies to interpret and churn out regulations based on the laws. So, one page of a law will result in many, many pages of regulations. It's truly insane.
 
mt99
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting ilanbwoy (Reply 67):
1) They r understaffed and are trying to get more officers stamping.
2) The sequester has had an effect in terms of decreasing the o.t. budget.
3) Pax numbers are up and the staffing levels have not kept pace.
4) The training program from hiring to stamping takes almost 7 months. Its a lot to learn.

The entire MIA airport is awful. About a month ago the fire alarm on the "new" terminal D was going off for for at least 1 hour.

That not sequestration.

I entered the country thru DFW - man what a difference. DFW has rapidly become my favorite entry point to the country.
Step into my office, baby
 
mcdu
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 99):
Well, the obvious reason is that foreigners don't vote, and so there's no incentive for Congress to care about a population segment that they aren't necessarily accountable.

Except that these passengers may be connecting to domestic flights and thus creating significant misconnects for the airlines. The airlines do have some political strength with A4A and their own contributions.

With the recent debate over opening up an customs pre-clearance facility in the middle east this may actually be the tipping point we need to get this function privatized. I advocate putting pre-clearance into all of the major airports, that is allowing the foreign customs officials to be deputized to administer our clearance process; ie putting Global machines and US customs computers in FRA, LHR,NRT etc. Allow the pre-clearance to eliminate thousands of CBP jobs here in the US. It will help reduce our cost from a governmental standpoint and put the current CBP employees on notice of impending job cuts. Perhaps that will motivate a few of these folks to do a better job. The CBP is like the post office. They are slow and ineffective and mired in processes and procedures that are outdated.

It would be nice to see all citizens enrolled in Global Entry to further reduce the need for CBP and to have pre-clearance for foreign citizens. The cost to business travelers for missed meetings as a result of misconnects and family's that miss important events due to misconnects from this job action by CBP will eventually add up. I lump the TSA into this same boat. Have noticed they are using reduced number of screening lines to give the perception of a staffing issue. This is a minor budget adjustment for these departments and yet they want to punish the traveling public to make a point.
 
bogota
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 83):
I had always better experience at J : most pax are Europeans or Brazilians compared to AA side where you have the entire central and south America arriving which means more juicy cases for CBP = more time processing

Actually between Avianca, Taca, LAN and Copa which by far outnumber any other international flights, most customers are Spanish speaking Southamericans. Add TAM and you will have most pax at J with visas stamped on passports. Now juicy cases probably arrive with more frequency from visa waiver countries where people have to be filtered more at arrival than from visa holding countries where people have been thouroughly checked before the visa is stamped.

I fly into the US at least once a month and never spend more that 30 seconds at the counter, the problem is standing in line for ever at many airports. Once you get to the booth it is basically swipe visa, digital procedures, usually no questions asked.
 
jfidler
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 5:18 pm

First, let me be clear I don't think a 2.5 hour queue at CBP is acceptable and I think it gives an awful "welcome" to foreign visitors to the US. I hope their impression of the US improves once they are actually in the country.

Some other posters in this thread were pointing out the negative economic impact this is having, making visitors less likely to come to the US. I thought it would be useful to look at the official numbers on this:

Quote:
Purchases of travel and tourism-related goods and services by international visitors traveling in the United States totaled $128.2 billion in 2012, an increase of more than 10 percent when compared to the previous year.

Source: "Travel and Tourism Industry Buoys Record U.S. Export Figures for 2012"

Quote:
Foreign national (non-U.S. citizen) air travelers (99.4 million) increased by nine percent, increasing share of the total market from 55 to 56 percent.

Source: "Annual 2012 U.S.-International Air Passenger Traffic, 177.6 Million, Up 7 Percent"

(Note that when a tourist spends money on their visit in the US, that is considered an "export" for statistical purposes.)

Maybe this growth would be even higher if the CBP experience was better. I looked for statistics for the EU during the same period, but could not find the data. Would be interesting to compare if anyone has that data.
 
varig md-11
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting bogota (Reply 106):
Actually between Avianca, Taca, LAN and Copa which by far outnumber any other international flights, most customers are Spanish speaking Southamericans. Add TAM and you will have most pax at J with visas stamped on passports.

Yes, probably it depends on the time you pass thru J. Beginning of the afternoon you have German Italian and French speakers mostly, from my experience.

Quoting bogota (Reply 106):
Now juicy cases probably arrive with more frequency from visa waiver countries where people have to be filtered more at arrival than from visa holding countries where people have been thouroughly checked before the visa is stamped.

You forget we pay for the ESTA which is a mini-visa we have to renew every 2 years. Visa waivers have to be filtered more for what reason? if it was the case visa waiver system would be suppressed.

Quoting bogota (Reply 106):
never spend more that 30 seconds at the counter, the problem is standing in line for ever at many airports.

   and questionning for visa waivers is limited "how long do you stay" is the classic and often only one
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TX PY
 
SCQ83
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 5:35 pm

I don't get the bias against MIA here. I find it quite a nice airport for American standards. I assume the bias that some posters have here is that they don't "feel" at home in MIA.

Quoting BoxBoy (Reply 69):
I stopped flying AA through MIA. I came through one early morning with no lines and the customs folks that I spoke with were complete A**holes. I travel the entire world and have never seen worse customs than MIA.

Oh yeah, I had to speak Spanish to get through MIA customs as well. No problem for me, but how messed up is the US?

I'll take Delta through ATL any day.

I can't see the problem... Spanish is Miami's most spoken language and the first language of an overwhelming number of passengers flying thru MIA. And the fact that Miami is Spanish (and increasingly Portuguese) friendly is one of the reasons so many Latin Americans live or have businesses there (which means billions for the Florida economy). AFAIK there is no official language in Florida. I noticed in MIA quite a few people in news stands or stores do not have a great command of English, but again I can't see the issue. If I am flying through Paris, I don't expect them to speak perfect English.

I personally would take MIA over ATL any day, if only for the eating options (ATL = plenty of junk food; not that you don't have that in MIA but you have more variety and healthier options), the newer, more airy terminal (I feel ATL is a warehouse) and the more international atmosphere.
 
bogota
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 108):
Yes, probably it depends on the time you pass thru J. Beginning of the afternoon you have German Italian and French speakers mostly, from my experience.

If you filter the MIA arrivals for today into terminal J out the 27 flights arriving this afternoon as of 1 p.m. only 3 european flights arrive, Swiss, Lufthansa and Alitalia. The rest of the flights are basically Avianca-Taca or LAN plus a few others including Aerolineas Argentinas and TAM.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 108):
You forget we pay for the ESTA which is a mini-visa we have to renew every 2 years. Visa waivers have to be filtered more for what reason? if it was the case visa waiver system would be suppressed.

Visa Waiver countries are entitled to it, the ESTA simply checks your background (usually for terrorism purposes). I have seen young europeans being questioned for a few minutes before gettting through, I asume they want to make sure they have enough resources or plans to leave the country soon, etc.

This would not happen obviosly to frequent travellers, just like renewing a visa these days is question free for frequent travellers.
 
varig md-11
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting bogota (Reply 110):
If you filter the MIA arrivals for today into terminal J out the 27 flights arriving this afternoon as of 1 p.m. only 3 european flights arrive, Swiss, Lufthansa and Alitalia

You forget AF at 2.25 and tomorrow there'll be TP too.
Usually AF (77W) AZ (772) LH (A380+A340) LX (A330) arrive between 1 and 3 pm at J.
Last time I was there, we AF pax, were behind LH and just before AZ wave.

Number of flights is one thing but a 77W equals 2 TACA A320 pax wise. Not to mention LH A380 + A340 from DUS

I know JJ flights arrive at J but at this time of the day I didn't see any brasileiros.

Quoting bogota (Reply 110):
I asume they want to make sure they have enough resources or plans to leave the country soon, etc.

Sure, young Europeans on visa waiver are sometimes "visiting friends" (= no hotel booked and not enough money to stay) or are tempted to find a job for the summer in the US (the latter being illegal on a visa waiver, the first one draws attention on you for an overstay suspicion)
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N62NA
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 104):
The entire MIA airport is awful. About a month ago the fire alarm on the "new" terminal D was going off for for at least 1 hour.

Oh come on!

You never have to hear "we're 30th in line for takeoff" when flying out of MIA.

You never have to wait for your plane to be de-iced.

There's a ton of restaurants and shops in the secure area.

There's ample seating at all the gate areas.

The terminals are very clean.

It's got great transportation to the new rental car / transit hub building and now also to downtown Miami.

Have you ever been to LGA? Or the Delta terminal at JFK?

Quoting mcdu (Reply 105):
The CBP is like the post office. They are slow and ineffective and mired in processes and procedures that are outdated.

Yes, and add onto that the way the law / regulations are written that give the CBP agent "complete authority and autonomy" to make your entrance into the USA a living hell. God help you if you end up going into the "additional processing" room (and I'm not talking about just MIA, but any of the major USA gateway airports).

The entire State Department is a total mess. A "rogue agency" that operates with complete impugnity. The employees on the front line know that they are the "ultimate authority" and some of them run amock with such power.

* In my own personal experience, I have NEVER had a problem with a CBP agent, though a Customs agent at MIA once started asking me questions about "what business am I in" and "how long have I been employed with them" which were totally inappropriate for his particular duty, which was just to see if I was bringing in any goods that I would need to declare or any banned plants/foods. I gave him a stern "how many more irrelevant questions are you going to ask me" response and that ended the interrogation.
 
Planesmart
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 112):
You never have to hear "we're 30th in line for takeoff" when flying out of MIA.

You never have to wait for your plane to be de-iced.

There's a ton of restaurants and shops in the secure area.

There's ample seating at all the gate areas.

The terminals are very clean.

It's got great transportation to the new rental car / transit hub building and now also to downtown Miami.

Those should be given, minimum airport standards.

But catering for international passengers? Can you use virtually any currency, notes and coins, at competitive exchange rates, at those restaurants and cafes in the secure area?
 
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par13del
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 113):
Those should be given, minimum airport standards.

Yes it should but its not, especially on arrival where one waits for a gate.
I guess MIA corruption hides those advantages of smooth traffic flows 
Quoting planesmart (Reply 113):
But catering for international passengers? Can you use virtually any currency, notes and coins, at competitive exchange rates, at those restaurants and cafes in the secure area?

Even if you cannot, currency exchage booths abound, in a couple weeks I'll confirm to myself that they are also in the secure area.
I always travel with US Dollars so its not something I need to look for when going through or stopping in MIA.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 109):
I don't get the bias against MIA here. I find it quite a nice airport for American standards. I assume the bias that some posters have here is that they don't "feel" at home in MIA.

To some its just that its taken so long, but yes, the changes and improvements are miles ahead of how it used to be and when looked at physically without pre-conceptions is quite nice.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 103):
100% correct - and from a citizen of The Bahamas no less!

Hey, I have to put with with my extended family who live in the US complaining when I visit  
 
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DL747400
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 19):
It is a disaster. Many of these people will vote with their wallets and fly via another airport the next time.

ATL will be delighted to have their business! And with DL's new JFK T4 opening next week, DL offers yet another option to those travelers who are disenchanted with MIA or other gateways.
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mham001
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 9:27 pm

They could easily make it all more comfortable by giving the passengers a number and providing seats to wait. This has worked wonders at the Californoa DMVs.

If more people voted with their feet, the airport would change their attitude.
 
jfidler
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 112):
The entire State Department is a total mess. A "rogue agency" that operates with complete impugnity. The employees on the front line know that they are the "ultimate authority" and some of them run amock with such power.

The State Department and CBP are entirely separate. CBP is part of DHS. If you are referring to the immigration process at MIA, you are unlikely to find any employees of State there, as that is handled by CBP.

As for the US State Department, which does operate the US consulates and embassies where visas are applied for, the busiest of those (China) had a 34% increase in issuance of non-immigrant visas to the US between 2011 and 2012:
http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.c...process-for-visa-applications.html

It also says wait times for an interview are 5 days, which I'd say is pretty good. I think State is actually in favor of more tourism to the US, as it benefits the US economy. It's CBP that is hindering things.
 
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N62NA
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Sun May 19, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting jfidler (Reply 117):

The State Department and CBP are entirely separate. CBP is part of DHS.

Ooops, forgot that it was folded into DHS when that department was created. However, they still apply the same test as to whether a person has "immigrant intent" as State does when deciding about visas. That's the real problem here.

Quoting jfidler (Reply 117):
It also says wait times for an interview are 5 days, which I'd say is pretty good.

Yep - but if you get a 221g and are placed in "Administrative Processing" you'll likely be in limbo for months if not years. (My friend from the EU is currently stuck there for 2+ years).
 
bogota
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 12:07 am

Quoting jfidler (Reply 117):
It also says wait times for an interview are 5 days, which I'd say is pretty good. I think State is actually in favor of more tourism to the US, as it benefits the US economy. It's CBP that is hindering things.

It is to be said that the visa process has changed dramatically, I remember spending a full day inside the embassy waiting for an interview, after several long queues. Now as you said, in the case of Colombia, 5 days for an appointment is normal, although a quite lengthy on line application is the biggest complaint. Once in the embassy most people spend 1 to 2 hours waiting and the interview is virtually non existent for frequent flyers.

Huge difference between this process and the horrible, painful, bureaucratic and unfriendly process by any (supposedly tourist friendly) European Embassy.
 
SCQ83
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 111):
Sure, young Europeans on visa waiver are sometimes "visiting friends" (= no hotel booked and not enough money to stay) or are tempted to find a job for the summer in the US (the latter being illegal on a visa waiver, the first one draws attention on you for an overstay suspicion)


I wouldn't feel too entitled because you don't have the "worst" passport (I assume you are French) nor you aren't a teenager anymore (I assume that too) and you have a work back in France. There are multiple reasons for which you can get a 2nd inspection. And I don't think there is necessarily any logic behind it.

A French friend of mine got a 2nd inspection not long ago (and this was not at all his first visit to the US) because he boarded first in LHR (instead of France), so the CBP apparently asked him why he boarded there instead of France (he works in London, and in a "qualified" job). So why did he got it, as exotic as a French working in London is? Maybe they thought moving to London and having a much-better than average English for a Frenchman without that irritating accent   was a "step" to later move illegally to the US. Who knows.

I am not sure either how the hotel stuff today makes any sense either... you can book a hotel in booking.com, print the receipt and cancel it 10 minutes later.

So I would certainly try to forget about "possible" patterns and whether you fit in them and that you are free or not from questions.

Quoting bogota (Reply 119):
Huge difference between this process and the horrible, painful, bureaucratic and unfriendly process by any (supposedly tourist friendly) European Embassy.

I have Latin American, ME and Asian friends that really *hate* getting Schengen Visas. I think because (and that has a lot to do with mentality and background), Americans and Europeans think of nationals from emerging countries in different ways.

The US will do whatever is possible to facilitate wealthy people from those countries (Colombia, China, Brazil, Turkey...) to visit and invest in the US. That is why they also grant them 5 or 10 years visitor's visa (to some nationalities at least). That probably has to do a lot with the American mentality that sees people more in regards to their socio-economic position than to their country of origin (I mean, in the US no one would care where you come from as long as you have money   ).

Then you have Europe that, unfortunately, we still have a much more nationalistic view... so if you are from Colombia you will probably deal with "he must be a whatever dealer since he is Colombian"... well you know what I mean. So there is no interest to attract those "poor" people which, I think is a mistake. Though my impression is that this is changing, at least with some major countries (for instance, Russia and Brazil).
 
mt99
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 1:36 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 112):
Have you ever been to LGA? Or the Delta terminal at JFK?

Yes an MIA is a better than them. What's your point?

Quoting N62NA (Reply 112):
There's a ton of restaurants and shops in the secure area.

Its so relaxing dining while the fire alarm goes on and on.. the strobe lights are a nice touch..lovely

Quoting N62NA (Reply 112):
The terminals are very clean.

Are the baggage claim band still held together by pieces of wood?
Step into my office, baby
 
atsiang
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 1:41 am

Agree to many of the comments concerning the rudeness of the CBP staff. Experienced and witnessed it myself. A few years ago, I flew into ORD from KRK and needed to quickly find shortest line so I can reach my connecting flight, I briskly walked to the other side of the hall and was rudely scolded by an agent why I needed to walk to so fast. I didn't bother answering her back as it would've been a complete waste of time. But my thought at the time was, what a way to be greeted back into the US. Another instance occurred in 2011 as I arrived at SFO from HKG. There was a family who obviously was visiting the US for the first time from Hong Kong was rudely greeted by a CBP agent and shouting at a child in the family who was filming their arrival into the US. Granted that video and photography is not allowed, this child certainly was not aware of the rule but it didn't require the agent to yell at the top of his lung for the whole hall to hear. The agent could have just explained in a calm way that video recording is not permitted. Again my thought was what a way to be greeted into the US. Just terrible.
 
b787900
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 2:11 am

I am quite surprised how this topic has gotten so big.

First and foremost, I cannot fully understand what the fuss is all about. As a Canadian citizen I have been travelling to the United States quite frequently. I have also transited there numerous times. Never once in at least the past 10 years have I encountered any rude or disrespectful CBP officers, TSA, or any other airport personnel. I have experienced quite the opposite actually, most were very professional, friendly, and would even occasionally tell a joke.The process to enter the US as a Canadian citizen almost always involved being asked quick questions such as the duration and location of stay. I never spent more than 2-3 minutes at the counter. While I certainly believe that rude and unprofessional employees exist at US airports, this issues (as with all American related issues) has been blown out of proportion. In addition to that, I always sense some sort of over entitled attitude around here each time there is a discussion about airport and airline quality. The airport/airline staff do not owe us (the traveling public) anything other than safe and reliable transportation and acceptable treatment upon arrival. Nothing more, nothing less. My expectations are just that. To this day, I have not once been disappointed.

What I also find quite ridiculous is how a number of members on here make some sensational claims without providing reliable facts or sources to back up their statements. Apparently, more and more travellers are traveling to the United States each year. A quick Google search will reveal and prove it. If you expect red carpet treatment upon arrival in the US, chances are, it ain't happening. Only because you fly in F or J or even regular Y class does not entitle you to any special treatment once on the ground, regardless of the country. I also believe MIA is not always as busy or chaotic as depicted on the photos.

While I agree that it would be quite beneficial for US airports to set up a hassle free transit (no visa/luggage pick up/2nd check in), it is not an absolute must. It would require a hefty amount of money to be invested in order to "fix up" the airports around the country with the single busies airspace the world. As far as I know, Canadian airports are set up somewhat similar. International (non-US) passengers must clear Canadian customs when transiting here. For passengers travelling on a passport from a country not on a visa waiver program, a transit visa must be obtained prior to arrival/transit in Canada. For example, a Ukrainian traveling between KBP and MEX via YYZ. These rules are there for a reason. At the end of the day, I would much rather transit anywhere in the US or Canada than in a country with poor human rights record, abuse and ridiculously strict and abusive local laws. Indonesia, China, UAE, among many, many others, come to mind. Sure, those countries might have excellent airports but the rest of the region oftentimes leaves much to be desired.

Finally, I personally know plenty of people who have experienced rude, unprofessional and racist airport staff, poor treatment, long immigration lines, claustrophobic facilities, etc, at airports such as CDG, FRA, LHR, SVO, and many others. I saw and experienced some of it myself. Apparently, not everything in Europe is perfect or better than in US, despite what some tend to imagine and believe. On average, having transited in Europe, Middle East and Asia numerous times, I found the experience to be nor better nor worse than in the US. On a second thought, transiting at KUL last year was certainly not pleasant, not to mention the airport's main check in area was very chaotic and overcrowded. I have absolutely no idea why so many people on here are obsessing over US airports, airlines or any issues coming from that country or displaying a "we're so much better" attitude. From an average Joe's perspective I find this to be a little creepy.

[Edited 2013-05-19 19:29:51]
 
bogota
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 2:22 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 120):
I have Latin American, ME and Asian friends that really *hate* getting Schengen Visas. I think because (and that has a lot to do with mentality and background), Americans and Europeans think of nationals from emerging countries in different ways. The US will do whatever is possible to facilitate wealthy people from those countries (Colombia, China, Brazil, Turkey...) to visit and invest in the US. That is why they also grant them 5 or 10 years visitor's visa (to some nationalities at least).

That could be true but actually the US does grant visas to wealthy and middle class Colombians with not much problem, according to the US Embassy in Bogota 85% of visas get approved which in the case of Colombia they go for 10 years. The difference goes in that the US tends to trust people, once you get approved the first time you basically renew it with no problem as long as you have not abused the system.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 120):

That probably has to do a lot with the American mentality that sees people more in regards to their socio-economic position than to their country of origin (I mean, in the US no one would care where you come from as long as you have money ).

Both Europe and the US look for people who wont overstay visas.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 120):

Then you have Europe that, unfortunately, we still have a much more nationalistic view... so if you are from Colombia you will probably deal with "he must be a whatever dealer since he is Colombian"... well you know what I mean. So there is no interest to attract those "poor" people which, I think is a mistake. Though my impression is that this is changing, at least with some major countries (for instance, Russia and Brazil).

The "Colombian Dealer" mentality when referring to Colombian citizens is actually more ingrained "thanks to Hollywood" and the known lack of knowledge by US citizens in general of the "outside" world. Europeans tend to have less of a bias about it.

On the other hand consular officers live the daily life in Colombia so they don´t suffer from those types of thoughts regarding us. Yet the policies regarding visas by European countries are highly bureaucratic and totally absurd. I for instance work for a German company, yet I have not been able in the last two years that I have worked here, to get more than a 1 year Schengen visa. I worked for BA for many years also and still back then had to renew my Schenghen visa every year. Many people in my office who hold a 10 year US visa, get a 2 week Schengen visa on repeated occasions every time they need to go for training into Germany. Totally ridiculous.

So although US airports might be a nuisance to go through, visa processes for us that need it are much worse when thinking about going to Europe.
 
infinit
Posts: 1057
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 2:32 am

Quoting b787900 (Reply 123):
First and foremost, I cannot fully understand what the fuss is all about. As a Canadian citizen I have been travelling to the United States quite frequently...

Are you white?

If you aren't I reckon you wouldn't have gotten the same treatment.

Blatant discrimination but I've seen it first hand there...
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5062
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 am

I believe this problem become more intense after the Boston event. Probably it takes longer to accept each visitor right now than 2 months ago.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 105):
It would be nice to see all citizens enrolled in Global Entry to further reduce the need for CBP and to have pre-clearance for foreign citizens

True. Still not so many people uses the program and it could help a lot. Even Green card holders can apply but many don't know. I have the GE for more than 2 years now, and it is perfect.

Quoting bogota (Reply 106):
Actually between Avianca, Taca, LAN and Copa which by far outnumber any other international flights, most customers are Spanish speaking Southamericans.

Not only ... TAM for example increased a lot their number of flights, and now new players such as Gol added MIA flights.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
b787900
Posts: 33
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 2:57 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 125):

Excuse me? What does this have to do with the skin colour?

I find such comments rather inappropriate. If what you are trying to say is that all or most American CBP officers are racist, then you are mistaken! Big time! I know plenty of people who are visible minorities and they have not had any problems entering the US.

If you really want to talk about racism and discrimination then it would not hurt for you to truly educate yourself on this matter before saying something that is false. Discrimination happens everywhere but the US is a far better country to live in as a minority than anywhere in Asia. Honest and hard working minorities have no trouble moving up the chain in the work force in the United States. Typically, such individuals are treated with respect and dignity. It is not always so in Singapore or in Asia in general.

Occasional bad apples at MIA, JFK, or LAX do not represent the majority of American CBP or TSA officers.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5418
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:07 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 125):
Are you white?

If you aren't I reckon you wouldn't have gotten the same treatment.

Blatant discrimination but I've seen it first hand there...

I am not postuling the US (or Europe for the case) as samples of racial equality, but still they are still probably among the most equal places in the world.

If you want blatant racism go to a passport control in Dubai or any ME airport, where you will be basically get a "Local queue", a "Western queue" and "Another queue" (Filipinos, Indians and so on). That is shocking discrimination.

Quoting bogota (Reply 124):
Yet the policies regarding visas by European countries are highly bureaucratic and totally absurd.

I was referring to that. It seems that European countries look more to the collective (poor/rich nation) as a factor whether the US looks more to the individual (personal income, wealth). That certainly has to do with the mentality of each side of the pond (individualism VS collectivism).
 
bogota
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:09 am

Quoting b787900 (Reply 123):
The airport/airline staff do not owe us (the traveling public) anything other than safe and reliable transportation and acceptable treatment upon arrival. Nothing more, nothing less.

Actually if these are your expectations I am not surprised you can not spot the difference between most US airports and those that are leading the airport experience around the world.

As of my experiences with the visa issues and how the US actually is the least problematic, I can actually say that Canada has the dishonor of leading the pack of the most problematic. To get a Canadian Visa as a tourist I have to provide personal information of all my family (parents, brothers, etc) including their jobs and even date of departure from this world in my case my father (RIP).

I find funny when the countries who protect people´s rights the "most" are those who tend to discriminate with their policies those law abiding citizens from emerging nations.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:32 am

Quoting bogota (Reply 129):
As of my experiences with the visa issues and how the US actually is the least problematic,

I'm not quite sure how we got on visa policies in a thread about--or ostensibly about--wait times at immigration at MIA. The fact is that the US has figured out how to issue visas relatively fairly and efficiently. We require visas of more folks than some other countries, but the process for getting a visa is reasonably honest and straightforward.

Whether or not one has/needs a visa has nothing to do with how long it takes to clear immigration upon arrival at MIA.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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legacyins
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:51 am

What is the percentage of International passengers compared to domestic passengers at MIA and is International expected to grow faster over the next couple of years?
 
b787900
Posts: 33
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:55 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 128):

  

Quoting bogota (Reply 129):

Maybe that is because each one of us have their own goals and priorities in life.

My priorities as far as the airport/airline service is concerned are pretty straightforward. I want to get there safe, on time and with an acceptable and adequate customer service. While it certainly feels excellent using top notch airlines (SQ, EK, TG) via supposedly top notch airports, I never felt they delivered the kind of service that I am willing to pay for. For example, just last night after looking up JFK - HKG via DXB flight offerings for the month of June, July and August I was stunned by how expensive it is to fly EK even in Y. I flew EK in the past and while they were excellent I don't think I would be willing to spend up to $1,000 more only to get a better meal, IFE and always smiling flight attendants. DXB by the way, was far more overcrowded than MIA or JFK! That said, it doesn't mean I do not see some differences between airports or customer service. I simply don't make a big deal out of poor experiences which by the way, happened to me almost exclusively outside of the United States and Canada. Go figure...

I could post links to hundreds of complaints about SIN, ICN, FRA, DXB, etc, which are supposedly the latest and the greatest in terms of customer service and satisfaction.
 
spink
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 4:24 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 126):
True. Still not so many people uses the program and it could help a lot. Even Green card holders can apply but many don't know. I have the GE for more than 2 years now, and it is perfect.

And its not just green card holders and us citizens. South Koreans, Dutch, Mexicans and Canadians can all get Global Entry certified. And it is relatively cheap at $20 per year (cost is $100 for a 5 year term). Flux/Privium in the Netherlands on the other hand is super expensive at ~$180 per year for GE members and ~$360 for Dutch citizens. In comparison the Korean SES service is the same price as the GE service. Plus if you have GE, you can also opt in to TSA Pre-Check as well.

And GE is now accepted in Australia and New Zealand for expedited customs and immigration. Hopefully more countries will get on board with trusted traveler programs and at reasonable/free costs.
 
infinit
Posts: 1057
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:12 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 7:49 am

Quoting b787900 (Reply 127):
Excuse me? What does this have to do with the skin colour?

I find such comments rather inappropriate. If what you are trying to say is that all or most American CBP officers are racist, then you are mistaken! Big time! I know plenty of people who are visible minorities and they have not had any problems entering the US.

If you really want to talk about racism and discrimination then it would not hurt for you to truly educate yourself on this matter before saying something that is false.

Occasional bad apples at MIA, JFK, or LAX do not represent the majority of American CBP or TSA officers.

I merely posted a question to you in my previous post...

No, I didn't do a scientific study on this matter and neither did you. We comment based on our own experiences.

Many people in the US think I'm of Middle Eastern or Mexican origin and my experiences passing through US immigration haven't been as pleasant. On one occasion I had my passport thrown at me, on another I was asked repeatedly about my ethnic origins.

I was also once told by a TSA agent I don't look Singaporean which doesn't make any sense since there is no Singaporean "look". Like the US we are an immigrant country and we have more than 20 ethnic groups.

Quoting b787900 (Reply 127):
Discrimination happens everywhere but the US is a far better country to live in as a minority than anywhere in Asia. Honest and hard working minorities have no trouble moving up the chain in the work force in the United States. Typically, such individuals are treated with respect and dignity. It is not always so in Singapore or in Asia in general.

Care to share what discrimination Singapore's ethnic minorities face (me being me one of them)?

"Singapore and Asia in general" - that statement reflects a highly prejudiced attitude on your part, Asia is a very diverse continent. There is no one "Asian" thinking or attitude, and Singapore in many ways is different from even our closest neighbours, Malaysia and Indonesia. So right back at you, educate yourself  

Oh and how many hate crimes have there been in Singapore, ethnic or otherwise since our independence from Malaysia? ... and how many in the US on a year?

Never lived in the US apart from being a tourist there. I didn't feel discriminated against by Americans. I've been to 5 states and found the people to be generally friendly. The only discrimination I felt was by the TSA albeit on every occasion I passed through immigration.
 
icarus75
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:18 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:42 am

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 108):
and questionning for visa waivers is limited "how long do you stay" is the classic and often only one

I disagree on this one!!!!
Everytime I go trough immigration, I'm not only asked "how long do you stay" but also "where are you going", "why there", "why so long".....
Flying is amazing!
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:54 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 128):
If you want blatant racism go to a passport control in Dubai or any ME airport, where you will be basically get a "Local queue", a "Western queue" and "Another queue" (Filipinos, Indians and so on). That is shocking discrimination.

I have not seen this at Dubai or Abu Dhabi. What I have seen is separate lines for labor passengers, but that is because they have different processing requirements and it makes sense not to slow down the general lines with them. A local vs foreigners line is common all over the world. Have not seen anything that would force an Indian tourist or business traveler, for example, to stand in a separate line from "Westerners".

Quoting b787900 (Reply 127):
Excuse me? What does this have to do with the skin colour?

It has to do with profiling. For better or for worse, people of a different skin color are more likely to have a rougher time at passport control due to unfortunate recent history.

Quoting b787900 (Reply 127):
Occasional bad apples at MIA, JFK, or LAX do not represent the majority of American CBP or TSA officers.?


But this thread is about MIA. I don't think anyone is saying *all* CBP agents are rude; the point is enough of them are to give them all a bad rap. Much like flight attendants on US airlines.     
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1114
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:02 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 120):
I wouldn't feel too entitled because you don't have the "worst" passport (I assume you are French) nor you aren't a teenager anymore (I assume that too) and you have a work back in France. There are multiple reasons for which you can get a 2nd inspection. And I don't think there is necessarily any logic behind it.

Well, you assume right  
If there is no logic begind secondary inspection then I find it scary and completely arbitrary. I thought all this story of biometry, databases, software and pre-arrival analysis would cut the crap and limit secondaries.

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 135):
Everytime I go trough immigration, I'm not only asked "how long do you stay" but also "where are you going", "why there", "why so long".....

Maybe your data in CBP database is ringing a bell to officers 
It's true once or twice I've been asked what was my occupation, when I answer I work for the state at CDG it cuts the story short   
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TX PY
 
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par13del
Posts: 9189
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:19 am

Quoting legacyins (Reply 131):
What is the percentage of International passengers compared to domestic passengers at MIA and is International expected to grow faster over the next couple of years?

I would say the ratio at MIA between the two is much closer than any of the other major airports, too much back-tracking is involved in using MIA as a domestic connecting hub as it is so far south.
I'm guessing 50/50, before going to google.
 
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par13del
Posts: 9189
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:24 am

Google is a good friend at times, now on to some math to get the percentages, why is life not simple  http://www.miami-airport.com/pdfdoc/...IA_Passenger_Services_brochure.pdf
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 12:31 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 109):
If I am flying through Paris, I don't expect them to speak perfect English.

I agree CBP officers shouldn't be expected to speak 2 or 3 different languages but if they are working in a position with authority they should be able to speak fluent English. I don't think it's unreasonable for Frenchman/woman to expect to be spoken to in French at CDG. Just like I expect to be spoken in English when I enter back into my country of birth.

I've gone in and out of MIA domestically several times and find the airport to be okay. Once behind security there are plenty of shops and places to eat and many of the terminals offer great views of the tarmac.
A330 man.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 12:49 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 137):
If there is no logic begind secondary inspection then I find it scary and completely arbitrary. I thought all this story of biometry, databases, software and pre-arrival analysis would cut the crap and limit secondaries.

You've lost me. Any good profiling programme has to have a random component to acknowledge its imperfection and keep the bad guys guessing--and every customs inspection I've ever witnessed does, in fact, have a random/arbitrary/"behavior-based" component.

Quoting infinit (Reply 134):
The only discrimination I felt was by the TSA albeit on every occasion I passed through immigration.

Too bad TSA doesn't staff immigration . . .

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 135):
Everytime I go trough immigration, I'm not only asked "how long do you stay" but also "where are you going", "why there", "why so long".....

They are supposed to ask at least one question--preferably "off the wall," though some agents aren't good at that--of everyone. Citizens get questioned too.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8746
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 12:53 pm

The people working for TSA, immigration and customsin the USA are IMO rather friendlier and more professional now than just a few years ago.

I have nothing against TSA being thorough, I like to be alive also after the flight and do not appreciate bombs and similar equipment on aeroplanes.
I have to remove my shoes, belt and everything metal, show my clear bag with liquids, put my computer and cameras separate to the scanner also in Iceland and many other European countries. I find the body scanner not worse than a pat down. Rather the other way round.

I do not talk about Visa applications or why we out of a visa waiver country have to to the ESTA application giving about a similar amount of information as in many other countries for the visa application, that all is before the flight and hopefully done in time.

My main beef with US immigration is standing two hours or more in the line just to get to the immigration counter.

A good organisation of the international to international transfer would at least keep that group of pax out of the need to process them through immigration and it is less complicated than most here want to acknowledge.
You run them by passing immigration, past a transfer counter, through TSA, direct into the international department lounge. If they need to change terminals you move them by a special bus service, for those passengers only, either before or after TSA to the next international departure lounge. You have a small separate TSA sideline and switch that according to need and do not mix transit and departing before TSA.
The luggage of this passengers you run directly from the arriving to the departing international flight no need to bother customs.

Lets say a plane arrives from somewhere international, you have 50% US citizens and 50% non US citizens. We assume that 100% of the US citizen are O & D traffic. If than 5% of the passengers of that plane are int. to int transit you will find out that the strain on immigration processing lowers quite a bit.

Many European countries have changed there passports to include bio metrics, that was also a requirement from the USA.
Why is it not used? The UK goes much more for automated processing and the threat level from terrorist is not lower there than in the USA.
 
thaiflyer
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:55 pm

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 141):
They are supposed to ask at least one question--preferably "off the wall," though some agents aren't good at that--of everyone. Citizens get questioned too.

Why are US citizen ( i presume with a US passport ) questioned at all?
I don't believe that they can refuse US citizen entry intro their own home country.
Therefore there is no reason to ask on question except for the Welcome home message.
When i return to my home country i just get sometimes the passport check and that's all.
( most of the times i just get waived through )
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14042
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 1:23 pm

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 143):
Why are US citizen ( i presume with a US passport ) questioned at all?

Behavior analysis for possible referral to customs or agriculture secondary inspection. There's not the hard line between immigration screening and customs screening that a lot of countries have.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 1:47 pm

Interestingly, as a US citizen I have never ever been questioned at all when entering Russia, UAE, India, Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Thailand, China, Japan, etc numerous times over the years.

Only places I have been asked some questions (typically "what is your occupation" and "how long have you been away / plan to stay") has been when returning to the US, and when entering the UK.

I put that down to a legitimate response testing / security measure as these two countries have learnt the hard way that even their own citizens (or citizens of their closest allies) cannot always be assumed to be harmless.  
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 1:48 pm

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
The last 6 times I have gone through MIA, I have had to wait over 2.5 hours to get through passport control. Lines are miles long and it's the most inefficient and slow process I have ever seen.

I'm glad they've stayed consistent over the decades!   

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
This long predates sequestration. It'd make more sense to blame Sandy

   Exactly.

Quoting usxguy (Reply 73):

The "sequester" was only a 2% reduction in CBP's budget... however the fat cats in DC / Administration want to make it as PAINFUL as possible...

   Cut the fat... and put in more clerks.

The waits at LAX, JFK, and MIA are hurting the US economy.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 142):
The people working for TSA, immigration and customsin the USA are IMO rather friendlier and more professional now than just a few years ago.

That I agree with 100%.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 144):
Behavior analysis for possible referral to customs or agriculture secondary inspection.

   My last time through customs with my ex had us questioned extensively. We met the profile of someone trying to smuggle a female (my ex) into the nation. Part of this might have been due to my nature of being a 'hands on father.' (The two girls were interacting with me and not the mom so much while waiting in line off the cruise ship. My ex also only smiles when faking it, something I had to learn but is obvious once you know what to look for, which I assume customs does. Both are signs of someone who should receive customs attention.)


Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2594
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:07 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 11):
Unlike other countries America is so backwards at letting transiting passengers through without having to pass through immigration.

Unfortunately unlike other countries America doesn't have passport control when leaving the country, so allowing transit passengers through without having to pass immigration is always going to be a challenge as you have to find an acceptable way to keep them away from domestic passengers/flights.

The US is in no way 'special' in relation to the 'challenges' of managing international transit passengers. The US just chooses to ignore the need. That's all. The same challenges apply in other countries, but they choose to provide the totally sane service of segregating 'arriving' passengers from 'transit' passengers. It's that simple. You have a fork in the road in the arrivals concourse: you accept arriving passengers via immigration; you route transit passengers back into the departures area via a security check. It does not seemed to have occurred to the US that many people are just changing flights on US soil and are not O or D to the US. This makes most passengers avoid transit via the US like a hole in the head.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 147):
The US is in no way 'special' in relation to the 'challenges' of managing international transit passengers. The US just chooses to ignore the need. That's all.

Absolutely. It's too small a need to justify the expenditure. The US no doubt loses passengers because of it, but it's a choice we've made. Why is that hard for folks to understand?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:19 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 147):
You have a fork in the road in the arrivals concourse: you accept arriving passengers via immigration; you route transit passengers back into the departures area via a security check.

The problem is the departure areas have a mix of domestic and international pax, as well as arriving and departing pax, and no way to prevent someone from just leaving the area and exiting the airport landside. For this to work international flight departures would have to be in a separate sanitized area.

Not saying it justifies the current situation, but the solution is more complex than you make it out to be given how US airports and passenger flows have been historically designed.

[Edited 2013-05-20 08:26:00]

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