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ozglobal
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:47 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 148):
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 147):
The US is in no way 'special' in relation to the 'challenges' of managing international transit passengers. The US just chooses to ignore the need. That's all.

Absolutely. It's too small a need to justify the expenditure. The US no doubt loses passengers because of it, but it's a choice we've made. Why is that hard for folks to understand?

We might equally say, why is it so hard for US 'folks' to see how much it sucks?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 3:55 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 150):
We might equally say, why is it so hard for US 'folks' to see how much it sucks?

Is there anyone in this thread who you contend doesn't "see how much it sucks?"
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ozglobal
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 151):
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 150):
We might equally say, why is it so hard for US 'folks' to see how much it sucks?

Is there anyone in this thread who you contend doesn't "see how much it sucks?"

You seem to dismiss objections about how painful it is with the following post:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 148):
it's a choice we've made. Why is that hard for folks to understand?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 152):
You seem to dismiss objections about how painful it is with the following post:

Not at all. Choices have consequences. I don't see why people discount the fact that in this country, we've chosen a more streamlined airport experience for a number of passengers at a lower cost than what sterile transit would take. Of course, the choice that we've made has operational advantages that are often ignored, like the fact that we don't need to bus passengers when their aircraft is at the wrong type of gate, as happens almost as a matter of routine on narrowbody flights at a number of European airports.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sankaps
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 4:20 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 153):
Not at all. Choices have consequences. I don't see why people discount the fact that in this country, we've chosen a more streamlined airport experience for a number of passengers at a lower cost than what sterile transit would take.

I do think that was the original intent, but times have changed and something will have to be done sooner or later to invest in the process, layout, and logistics changes to prevent 2.5 hour waits at passport control growing to 3.5 and then 5 hour waits at peak periods over time if we just ignore the problem.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 4:24 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 154):
but times have changed and something will have to be done sooner or later to invest in the process, layout, and logistics changes to prevent 2.5 hour waits at passport control growing to 3.5 and then 5 hour waits at peak periods over time if we just ignore the problem.

But again, that has nothing to do with whether or not we have sterile transit, as the lower cost way to address that problem is simply staffing appropriately (and/or a greater emphasis on trusted traveler programs).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AA777
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 4:34 pm

Can't wait to come back ti MIA from Colombia this weekend........................
 
sankaps
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 155):
But again, that has nothing to do with whether or not we have sterile transit, as the lower cost way to address that problem is simply staffing appropriately (and/or a greater emphasis on trusted traveler programs).

That is true. Along with more staffing and technology, a separate processing lane or area for int'l to int'l transit to prevent them backing up behind arriving passengers will also be hugely helpful and should not be that hard to do.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 5:01 pm

I do not think that you as the USA have the right to the choice to make live miserable for in international travelers.

Okay, when I am a tourist, I have choice, go to the US or go somewhere else.

But when I am on a business trip your behavior is akin to non tariff hindrances to free trade. If an US citizen has a right to come to my country for business, I have the right to go to your country for business reasons. You do not have the right to exclude me for no apparent reason and you do not have the right to make my travels miserable.

The visa waiver program was not a US gift to the citizens of other nations. It was bilateral agreement to ease travel between those countries.
It is questionable were the ease is going in regard of the unfriendly treatment of the citizen of supposedly "friendly nations".

It is high time to get your act together.
 
SCQ83
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 5:14 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 158):
The visa waiver program was not a US gift to the citizens of other nations. It was bilateral agreement to ease travel between those countries.

As you say this is a bilateral agreement.

There are many countries that have reprocity policies. If you have only an US passport and you want to visit Brazil (whether it is for business, tourism...) you gotta get a (very expensive) pre-arranged visa in a Brazilian embassy/consulate in the US, the same flavour that Brazilians have to suffer to get to the US.

I don't think no one would stop Iceland   or the Schengen area to have similar policies as the US.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 159):
As you say this is a bilateral agreement.

There are many countries that have reprocity policies. If you have only an US passport and you want to visit Brazil (whether it is for business, tourism...) you gotta get a (very expensive) pre-arranged visa in a Brazilian embassy/consulate in the US, the same flavour that Brazilians have to suffer to get to the US.

I don't think no one would stop Iceland   or the Schengen area to have similar policies as the US.

I do know nothing about the agreements the USA has with Brazil., but I am pretty sure that when a US citizen needs an visa in Brasil that then a Brasil citizen needs a visa in the USA.
I do know the agreements the USA has with Iceland.
I do know that no US citizen will need 2 hours + to pass immigration in Iceland when all his papers are okay.
We are holding our side of the bargain up, it is time for that on your side.
 
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kasimir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 6:01 pm

Funny that this subject comes up now, but since around 2002/2003 I try to avoid the USA as my traveling hub to anywhere else in the world if I cannot get a direct flight!

Things got really bad after the increased security due to 9/11 and things at most major US airports are really a pain in the but for international travelers, even worst if you possibly have a connecting flight.

Immigration is really the biggest problem and it ALWAYS took me atleast 1hr to get through immigration and this is extremely annoying especially after a 10+ hour flight. It makes tight connections nearly impossible or planning for relatives to pick you up is also a pain, since you get screamed at if you want to use your phone to let your waiting relatives know that your waiting in line for immigration!

The next big issue that really annoys me if you have a (international or domestic) connecting flight, is that you have to claim your baggage at the first US airport that you arrive (some kind of customs regulation) and then bring it personally to the connecting flight baggage drop off.

The last big issue of traveling through the US is the TSA and I will not get into detail, since this has been discussed to death already  

All this makes international--to-international or international-to-domestic flights through the US very inefficient and very tiring to do and I prefer flying to any other airport in the world if my final destination is outside the US.

Example (I regularly fly to Brazil):
CUR-MIA-GIG => connecting through MIA takes me atleast 2hrs to get from one gate to the next gate (go through immigration, claim baggage, go through security and get to departure gate) and most of the times I prefer to stay one night at a hotel to make sure that I don't miss my flights and travel more relaxed => makes things more expensive and lose more than a day!
CUR-BOG-GIG => connecting through BOG is a really pleasant experience (if you fly with Avianca) and the last three times it took me less than 15 minutes to get from arrival gate to my departure gate and my baggage got at final destination without any problems!

I don't understand why the US doesn't have any interest to fix this problem, because not only is it extremely annoying, but also does the US lose billions of $$$ from travelers that choose to connect through other countries and the value of time lost due to just waiting should not be avoided either!
Other countries do not have these STRUCTURAL problems like the US and I always have to be mentally prepared to travel to the US to not to get a heart attack  

By the way, its not only MIA, but I constantly had bad experiences at JFK, EWR, MCO, ORD, LAX, SFO....

PS: The only country which I know that does international immigration just or nearly as bad as the US is Brazil

[Edited 2013-05-20 11:22:02]
 
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kasimir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 149):

Absolutely. It's too small a need to justify the expenditure. The US no doubt loses passengers because of it, but it's a choice we've made. Why is that hard for folks to understand?

While I agree that the expenditure is too huge to make up for it in the short-term, but the problem still remains and the US will lose out in the long-term, due to other countries taking the opportunity to offer international travelers better and more effective connecting options.

This issue shouldn't be ignored even if you are a die hard American patriot, because it might effect the US in a much bigger way than just the comfort of travel for international and connecting passengers!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 7:09 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 160):
I do know that no US citizen will need 2 hours + to pass immigration in Iceland when all his papers are okay.

At MIA, that's simply false. Most of the line occurs before the split for US citizens and non-citizens.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sankaps
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 7:52 pm

Quoting kasimir (Reply 162):

That was Cubsrule's comment you quoted, though somehow it showed up under my name.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 163):
At MIA, that's simply false. Most of the line occurs before the split for US citizens and non-citizens.

He was talking about Iceland. However it seems strange that MIA has a common line for US and non-US until it splits -- makes no sense.
 
ETinCaribe
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting mcmax (Reply 6):
Do passengers who have Global Entry have to wait in that queue to get to the immigration hall, or are they allowed to move on ahead? (I selfishly ask this question as we will be arriving back from Paris next month via Miami.)

You need not worry. I went through this hall 2 days ago, long lines for others but with Global Entry, you are out in 30 seconds or less. 95% of your time is taken by how fast you can walk.
 
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jsnww81
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:21 pm

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 165):
You need not worry. I went through this hall 2 days ago, long lines for others but with Global Entry, you are out in 30 seconds or less. 95% of your time is taken by how fast you can walk.

Same experience here. I flew into MIA back in March - I arrived at about 5am on a completely full 767 from GYE, and as we taxied into the gate, there were 767s and 777s from all over South America pulling in around us. Using Global Entry I was through in about 45 seconds. For the non-US folks it was a different story, but the lines also weren't nearly as bad as they look in the OP's photos.
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:32 pm

To keep things a little bit positive, I must say it's never taken me extremely long to get through as a US citizen at any US airport (ATL, JFK, MIA, ORD, PHX, SEA, CVG, MSP). However, I do agree that the system as a whole needs te be evaluated completely as there are many, many things that could use improvement.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
citationjet
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:36 pm

Quoting miaskies (Reply 22):
Not just a MIA/AA problems - Major airports throughout the country are being faced with the same issue.
Quoting superjeff (Reply 70):
It is NOT sequestration

Agree. It took 1 hour and 30 minutes to pass thru Immigration and Customs at DFW last Saturday. There were hundreds of people in line, with only two agents working the Customs line. Many in line missed their connecting flights. My flight from Cancun only took 2:25 minutes flying time, but I spent 1:30 getting thru Customs/Immigration. It was the same mess at DFW in January when arriving from FRA.
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kasimir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:43 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 167):
To keep things a little bit positive, I must say it's never taken me extremely long to get through as a US citizen at any US airport

I think the key word you are using is "US citizen" and every time I stand in line to wait I can observe that the lines for US citizens move somewhat faster (but the still very slow compared to most airports for example in Europe).

If I needed to travel very often into the US I would apply for Global Entry too since that seems to go very easy and fast, but why can they not introduce self-service electronic immigration gates (for the VISA waiver countries) next to the normal immigration desks, which might take some of the work-load away and make things a little smoother... In Europe they are already doing this for all EU passport holders and I prefer the self-service immigration over the normal immigration desks!
 
flymia
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:54 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 160):
I do know nothing about the agreements the USA has with Brazil., but I am pretty sure that when a US citizen needs an visa in Brasil that then a Brasil citizen needs a visa in the USA.
I do know the agreements the USA has with Iceland.
I do know that no US citizen will need 2 hours + to pass immigration in Iceland when all his papers are okay.
We are holding our side of the bargain up, it is time for that on your side.

When Iceland has the immigration problems AND the amount of international travelers coming into their airport the we can talk. I mean really you have to be joking. There are more people traveling between MIA and Brazil and Mexico than total passengers at KEF.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 158):
But when I am on a business trip your behavior is akin to non tariff hindrances to free trade. If an US citizen has a right to come to my country for business, I have the right to go to your country for business reasons. You do not have the right to exclude me for no apparent reason and you do not have the right to make my travels miserable

The lines suck , I agree. Even though I have never waited in a long CBP line. I have waited in lines in other countries though. But for you to think you have the "right" to come into the USA is laughable. Just like I think there is no country I have the "right" to visit the U.S. does have the right to deny you entry if they wish. The only person who has a right to enter the country is a U.S. Citizen.
No one wants people travel to be miserable but right now at the major gateways long lines are happening. Hopefully the problems will be fixed.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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legacyins
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 8:54 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 139):

Thanks very much for the link. Very informative.
 
BestWestern
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:01 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 170):
But for you to think you have the "right" to come into the USA is laughable.

FlyMia's proposal to reduce lines - all foreigners go home.....
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b787900
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:05 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 134):

Pal, I do not recall myself mentioning anything along the lines of, "all Asian countries are the same". Don't get where you're getting that from. What I meant was, people of colour such as Indians, Sri Lankans, Africans, etc, are far better off in the US or here in Canada than anywhere in Asia. That isn't a generalization, it is simply how it is. There is a lot of discrimination against Indian, Pakistani, and Sri Lankan individuals in countries such as UAE, Singapore, Indonesia, etc. Oftentimes those people are permanently stuck at the very bottom in their jobs and careers. Just a quick search on Google reveals a not so pretty picture regarding race relations in your region. I haven't even touched on other subjects such as interracial relationships and marriages. And I actually have done a significant amount of research on this matter in the past.

Further, US remains the country most people want to settle in, followed closely by other highly developed nations like Canada. I would expect far more hate crime in Europe and North America than in Singapore simply because, the local laws in Singapore are so strict that most people are reluctant to break them. There is hardly any personal freedom in many Asian countries (not in all countries though). Hate crime is definatly wrong! But so are the overly strict and abusive laws. I would still rather transit in US or here in Canada than in most other places in the world. But it is only my opinion. Asia is wonderful to visit though.

Quoting kasimir (Reply 161):

I find it somewhat irrational and overly picky when some say things along the lines of "I avoid country X because it has unpleasant airports or staff". No wonder why so many people are miserable these days, especially when they fly. I never expect red carpet treatment anywhere I visit. I had my Canada passport thrown at me at SVO, the immigration officers at the airport were rude, however, I would still return to Moscow or transit through SVO. Russia is a fascinating country and the hassle of obtaining a visa or transiting at their airports will not deter me from coming again.

If European or Asian airport are so wonderful, how come each time I transit in Europe (arriving from US/Canada), my carry on luggage is almost always thoroughly checked before I board an intra European flight? Do you know how inconvenient it is to have your carry on luggage being turned inside out (and then having to repack it) at the security check point when there are hundreds of other people lined up all rushing to get out as soon as possible? I very rarely had such problems in the US or here in Canada.

What I find strange is how in the past 10+ years not once have I had any unpleasant experiences in the US. Not once have I waited for more than 20-25 min in line inside the immigration hall. I suspect some individuals already arrive with their baggage and hostility against CBP/TSA officers right from the start... I can sense it in this thread. You create what you fear. Some of my best airport experiences were at DFW, LAS, and CDG. ATL was not bad either, concourse F is quite nice. I never avoid transiting in the US, only if it is more expensive to transit there than elsewhere. Apparently, plenty of people are obtaining visas in order to be able transfer in US. It does not stop them.
I get it, the system isn't perfect and could certainly use some improvement, but it is not as bad as what some of you describe in this thread.

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 143):

Here Canada when I arrive at YVR, YYZ, etc, I almost always get questioned about the purpose and duration of my travel, what I purchased abroad, what I do for a living, etc. Such questions are necessary in order to verify the identity of the person trying to enter the country. Human and drug trafficking is rampant in a lot of places around the globe. We need to protect our borders and people.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 160):
I do know that no US citizen will need 2 hours + to pass immigration in Iceland when all his papers are okay

International passengers being processed for two hours at US airports? Most passengers are processed in under 5 minutes, unless what you meant was that they have to wait in line for up 2 hours before being processed. But isn't it wrong to compare smaller Euro airports such as KEF to MIA? MIA is much, much busier. I think US airports might be somewhat understaffed though, which results in long immigration lines.
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jfidler
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:25 pm

Does anyone have data on how much MIA traffic is International-International (transfer) traffic? I looked around but couldn't find any data.

Some posters in this thread state this is an important issue to be addressed, so it would be good to see some hard numbers on what percentage of passengers actually fall into this category.
 
flymia
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:30 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 172):
FlyMia's proposal to reduce lines - all foreigners go home.....


Glad you took that out of context. I don't think I have the "right" to enter Ireland. I have the right that the U.S. states give me a passport to be able to travel but if for some reason Ireland, China, Brazil or Italy wanted to deny me entrance into their country that is their fault. Would it be a good idea to just deny people for no reason. Of course not. But when I visit another country I am entering that country as a visitor and do not think I have a "right" to enter that country in any way. I am be granted permission to enter the country. Where I said lets just stop letting people in I don't see but hey you believe what you want to.

Quoting b787900 (Reply 173):
What I find strange is how in the past 10+ years not once have I had any unpleasant experiences in the US. Not once have I waited for more than 20-25 min in line inside the immigration hall.


Same here.

Quoting b787900 (Reply 173):
Human and drug trafficking is rampant in a lot of places around the globe.


I think people do not get this part of Immigration. It is such a big problem. It is an especially big problem at MIA.

Quoting b787900 (Reply 173):
I think US airports might be somewhat understaffed though, which results in long immigration lines.


They most certainly are.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Stratofish
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:30 pm

Ok, very interesting thread.
I'm currently looking for cheap fares to South America and always AA pops up as the "best" choice.
So my question is if one does not make his/her connection, will AA (or whatever airline) have to come up with a solution or will I be stranded in MIA? AA's website shows me 2:15h connection time at MIA, judging from this thread that's far from realistic..?

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 168):
Agree. It took 1 hour and 30 minutes to pass thru Immigration and Customs at DFW last Saturday. There were hundreds of people in line, with only two agents working the Customs line. Many in line missed their connecting flights. My flight from Cancun only took 2:25 minutes flying time, but I spent 1:30 getting thru Customs/Immigration. It was the same mess at DFW in January when arriving from FRA.

Shame. I remember having connected through DFW in 2000 and the international transit lounge albeit not being very comfortably it offered great views that no other lounge at DFW did (to my knowledge). Those pre 9/11 days...

Btw, what's the situation at ORD? I last flew there on 9/11/2002 and was through immigration in less than 20 minutes.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 74):
That being said, taking photographs in the sterile circulation area is strictly prohibited. Your parents could've had their electronics seized and been subject to detention and interrogation if the officer who caught them was in a particularly bad mood.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't these photographs been taken well outside the security area?
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sankaps
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 175):

Quoting b787900 (Reply 173):What I find strange is how in the past 10+ years not once have I had any unpleasant experiences in the US. Not once have I waited for more than 20-25 min in line inside the immigration hall.

Same here.

As a US citizen or as a Canadian pre-cleared in Canada, you are unlikely to ever face the kinds of lines foreign visitors face in US passport control.

However you clearly know that excessive waiting times are a problem as you go on to say:

Quoting flymia (Reply 175):

Quoting b787900 (Reply 173):I think US airports might be somewhat understaffed though, which results in long immigration lines.

They most certainly are.

So therefore all people are saying is that something should be done to fix this problem that primarily impacts foreigners entering the US.

[Edited 2013-05-20 14:49:09]
 
jfidler
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:48 pm

I found some data on the wait times at MIA for immigration:
http://apps.cbp.gov/awt/

You can choose each terminal of MIA, and see the average and maximum wait times, as well as how many booths were staffed.

I picked a few months and terminals at MIA, and rarely was the maximum wait time anywhere close to 2 hours. Also, average processing times seem to be closer to 30 minutes, and peaking at 60 minutes. The number of booths staffed seems to be in the 15-45 range.

Since they know what flight number you came from, I'm guessing the wait times are taken either from when the flight disembarks, or when the first person on the flight clears immigration.

So based on the hard data, as opposed to anecdotal evidence, it appears the waits are not as bad as people claim. At the same time, there is still room for improvement, as some of those waits I would still consider longer than reasonable.
 
tonystan
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:51 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 20):
Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 19):
Yet other countries manage this but America seem's to avoid dealing with it.

They do it by having dedicated international departure terminals and domestic departure terminals. To do that in the US you will have to basically redesign every major airport in the country. That is not feasible- especially since domestic flights make up the bulk of flights in the US unlike many other countries.

No, no they don't!

Ireland, UK, France, Germany.....infact pretty much all of Europe do not have separate domestic and international terminals, Canada, Japan, China, Russia.....

I could go on!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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b787900
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 9:56 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 177):

I do not always fly to US from Canada. Half my flights to US originated in Europe and Asia. None of those regions (apart from Ireland) have US pre-clearance facilities. I arrive in US as an international passenger and wait in line along with other non-US citizens. Never had to wait longer than 20-25 minutes at JFK or SFO even when I flew EK A380/AF 747 respectively. The lines were long but they moved quick.
Flew in: 717, 732-7M9, 744, 74H, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 772, 77L, 77W, 788, 789, 781, 223, 313, 318, 319, 32D, 320, 32A, 32N, 321, 32B, 32Q, 332, 333, 343, 346, 359, 351, 388, M11, M88, ER3, ER4, E70, E75, E90, E95, CR2, CR7, CR9, F50, F70, AN-24, TU5
 
sankaps
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:05 pm

Quoting b787900 (Reply 180):
Never had to wait longer than 20-25 minutes at JFK or SFO even when I flew EK A380/AF 747 respectively. The lines were long but they moved quick.

You have been fortunate. I too have not waited more than 45 minutes as a US citizen. Others however have not been so fortunate. This is a real problem, people are not making up these stories and fabricating the photos.
 
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N62NA
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 121):
Yes an MIA is a better than them. What's your point?

It was stated that MIA is an awful airport. It's nowhere near being an awful airport.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 121):

Are the baggage claim band still held together by pieces of wood?

No.

Quoting b787900 (Reply 123):
The airport/airline staff do not owe us (the traveling public) anything other than safe and reliable transportation and acceptable treatment upon arrival.

Not true. The airlines are selling service and comfort (Y+, J, F) in addition to transportation.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 130):
The fact is that the US has figured out how to issue visas relatively fairly and efficiently.

Well, I guess "relatively" is a relative word. But when my poor European friend has been stuck in "Administrative Processing" for more than 2 years, and NOBODY (not me, not him, not his U.S. lawyer, not the embassy where he interviewed, not the State Department in Washington DC) can tell him what the heck is going on with his application beyond it is "in Administrative Processing" something is VERY wrong with the system.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 137):
Maybe your data in CBP database is ringing a bell to officers

And, what sucks about that is that the poor soul has no way of seeing that data to see if he is labelled a terrorist by mistake.
 
sankaps
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:15 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 182):

It was stated that MIA is an awful airport. It's nowhere near being an awful airport.

It is improving (finally!), but really in my experience must rank amongst the least attractive / customer friendly major airports in the US, right alongside some of JFK's terminals.
 
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legacyins
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:16 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 182):
And, what sucks about that is that the poor soul has no way of seeing that data to see if he is labelled a terrorist by mistake.

Why don't you do a FOIA. I've done a couple and besides the retracted stuff, some interesting information comes back.
 
boysteve
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:17 pm

In the UK last weekend the BBC had a feature about long queues at US immigration and warning people that 2 hour delays were going to be common place throughout the summer. Obviously the UK has had it's own problems recently on immigration queues so we know what they can be like! The blame was put on spending costs but people will be put off taking their holiday in the US I am sure.
 
jcwr56
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:41 pm

Quoting kasimir (Reply 169):
If I needed to travel very often into the US I would apply for Global Entry too since that seems to go very easy and fast, but why can they not introduce self-service electronic immigration gates (for the VISA waiver countries) next to the normal immigration desks,

They are at ORD, they should be up and running by July 1st. However, at the beginning, they'll be available for U.S Citizens only. We'll have 32 kiosks in addition to GE. They'll shift those inspectors to non US lines.

Quoting jfidler (Reply 178):
I found some data on the wait times at MIA for immigration:http://apps.cbp.gov/awt/

That is great information if you're a historian.. Everyone knows each day is different. What CBP needs to do and what we're doing at ORD is looking forward on wait times. Getting projected passenger counts from the airlines directly and then using a model to look at CBP staffing during a given time to come up with what "X" amount of time will be during peak based on "scheduled" activity. It allows CBP to adjust their numbers 30-60 days out.

Matter of fact, we're looking at staffing for the winter season already based on initial W13 schedules. Some airports are trying to look at different ways of improving. The sad thing is, there's no "official" stance from DC to make the system work better. It's left up to each Port to figure it out.
 
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N62NA
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:46 pm

Quoting legacyins (Reply 184):
Why don't you do a FOIA. I've done a couple and besides the retracted stuff, some interesting information comes back.

Thanks.

He had his lawyer do that. Pretty much all that was left after all the black magic marker went through it were the words "the" "and" "or" and his name. Totally worthless exercise in his case.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 10:46 pm

It's not only the US government who is to blame for the mess. Airlines and their reduction of hubs are also contributing significantly to the problem, imho. Long gone are the days of direct flights from Europe to MEM or CVG and to a large extent also to DTW or MSP (I am using SkyTeam as an example since my experience with OW or *A is limited). Now almost everything from Europe is funneled through NYC/JFK or ATL which makes everything even worse even without the staffing problems.
 
mcdu
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 188):
Now almost everything from Europe is funneled through NYC/JFK or ATL which makes everything even worse even without the staffing problems.

Shouldn't the reduced CBP needs at MSP, CVG and MEM allow for assets to be in place at airports like JFK and ATL? There should be plenty of staff to handle the demands.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Mon May 20, 2013 11:33 pm

I just read MIA_Passenger_Services_brochure.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.miami-airport.com/pdfdoc/...IA_Passenger_Services_brochure.pdf
I t went past me I did not read that post earlier.

It debunks one argument so many US posters put up here, that international travel is tiny on all US airports compared to domestic travel.

Lets start with JFK busiest international hub of the USA:
all pax 49.3 mil pax on international flights 23.9 mill that is 48% international to 52% domestic.
busiest int. route JFK-LHR 2,678,991 busiest domestic route JFK-LAX 1,586,000

MIA second busiest international hub of the US
all pax 39.5 mil pax on international flights 18.4 mill that is 47% international to 53% domestic.
busiest int route MIA-LHR 2,678,991 busiest domestic route MIA-ATL 704,000

LAX third busiest international hub of the USA
all pax 63.7 mill pax on international flights 16.4 mill that is still 29% international to 71% domestic.
busiest int route LAX-LHR 1,300,010 busiest domestic route LAX-SFO 1,699,000

EWR fourth busiest international hub of the USA
all pax 33.9 mill pax on international flights 11.5 mill that is still 34% international to 66% domestic.
busiest int. route EWR-LHR 1,197,847 busiest domestic route EWR-MCO 662,000

ORD fifth busiest international hub of the USA
all pax 72.1 mill pax on international flights 10 mill that is still 14% international to 86% domestic.
busiest int. route ORD-LHR 1,207,407 busiest domestic route ORD-LGA 1,342,000
 
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zippyjet
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 12:02 am

Is this immigration hall in the newly completed North terminal D concourse or, is it in the Central (Old school MIA) terminal?
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 12:35 am

Hmm.....

There seem to be conflicting numbers. According to this article:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...lauderdale-hollywood-international

MIA beats JFK in international flights.... Of course it is only by one flight it still puts things into perspective that the most international airport in the US definitely needs to cater to foreign passengers, which it does, but definitely needs some shaping up as far as CBP goes.
 
mozart
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 12:43 am

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 165):

You need not worry. I went through this hall 2 days ago, long lines for others but with Global Entry, you are out in 30 seconds or less. 95% of your time is taken by how fast you can walk.
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 166):
Same experience here. I flew into MIA back in March - I arrived at about 5am on a completely full 767 from GYE, and as we taxied into the gate, there were 767s and 777s from all over South America pulling in around us. Using Global Entry I was through in about 45 seconds.

So you basically just walked past the waiting line towards the Global Entry kiosks? Didn't people think that you were queue-jumping and threatened to start a riot?

Arriving myself with GE at Terminal J on Swiss in 2 weeks. This thread has put me off quite a bit, pondering to cancel my trip to MIA
 
flymia
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 12:46 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 190):
It debunks one argument so many US posters put up here, that international travel is tiny on all US airports compared to domestic travel.

I think you completely miss the point. Yes the large international gateways have a lot of international flights. MIA is even close to 50/50. But here is the point you are missing. International-international connections are what would need the transit lounges. That is the only point we are saying about how other posters are talking about U.S. airports being poorly designed and laws being dumb. There are not many international-international al connections. Obviously international O/D arrivals need to clear at say MIA and of course someone flying LHR-MIA-MSY would need to clear in MIA. Those are the majority of Internatioanl passenger traffic at the few large Internatioanl gateways. Of course they are still waiting in the lines and that is a problem. But when we are pointing out that the majority of air travel in the U.S. is domestic we are pointing that out to people stating its crazy you need to clear customs and immigration even if you are in the U.S. to only connect.

As you can see after the "big three" of JFK, MIA, and LAX. It is clear the majority of traffic is domestic. Why don't you check stats for LAS, DEN, CLT, PHX, MCO, DTW, ATL? To the majority of airports international travel is small.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
mjoelnir
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 1:58 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 194):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 190):
It debunks one argument so many US posters put up here, that international travel is tiny on all US airports compared to domestic travel.

I think you completely miss the point. Yes the large international gateways have a lot of international flights. MIA is even close to 50/50. But here is the point you are missing. International-international connections are what would need the transit lounges. That is the only point we are saying about how other posters are talking about U.S. airports being poorly designed and laws being dumb. There are not many international-international al connections. Obviously international O/D arrivals need to clear at say MIA and of course someone flying LHR-MIA-MSY would need to clear in MIA. Those are the majority of Internatioanl passenger traffic at the few large Internatioanl gateways. Of course they are still waiting in the lines and that is a problem. But when we are pointing out that the majority of air travel in the U.S. is domestic we are pointing that out to people stating its crazy you need to clear customs and immigration even if you are in the U.S. to only connect.

As you can see after the "big three" of JFK, MIA, and LAX. It is clear the majority of traffic is domestic. Why don't you check stats for LAS, DEN, CLT, PHX, MCO, DTW, ATL? To the majority of airports international travel is small.

Come with numbers this is just blah blah blah.

First talking as international flight was hardly existing and only domestic was needed to bother about.
When that is refuted you talk about transit international to international was not important.

Put up your numbers instead of waffling.

And it does not matter if you find enough airports were international traffic is small, that is absolutely no reason to not support it were international travel is big.
And if you need more airports ATL has 9.9 mill pax on international flights, SFO 9 mill, IAH 8.6 mill, IAD 6.5 mill, DFW 5.5.
And if you look at a hub like FRA there you will find that the inside Schengen routes, comparable to domestic in the USA, are busier than international out of Schengen routes. You will find that on most big European hubs with the exception of LHR.
Still they cater to international traffic.
If one would see you guys doing something about the jams, than one would stop complaining about it but it is been going on like this for years and it is getting worse.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 2:17 am

I'm a holder of a Visa country (Brazil) and a Visa Waiver country (Italy) passport, and I've used both to enter the US (using the Brazilian passport in situations I'd have needed the visa anyway, like student and press). Well, once arriving in the USA from Mexico on a tourist trip through DFW - using my Italian passport - I was taken to secondary screening due to conflicting info from having two passports. I have to say the CBP officers were firm but respectful and professional. They were doing their job, but I was through with no harassment whatsoever. I did miss my connecting flight, but that was handled seamlessly by AA.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10612
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RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 164):
However it seems strange that MIA has a common line for US and non-US until it splits -- makes no sense.

You exit the a/c into a terminal corridor all pax are together until you get to the arrivals hall, the pictures earlier in the thread shows this corridor.
No pax has any exit point until they get to the arrivals hall, then the lines can be split.
In the old hall when volume was high, they held pax outside the hall and called US citizens forward to quickly get them cleared - which pissed off the non-US citizens to no end -.
The new hall was suppsed to eliminate the need for such measures by having enough lanes and spacing to accomodate a greater mass of pax, unfortunately, CBP decided not to fully staff the hall when opened and the sequester kicked in which aggravated the situation, so it is what it is. I think part of the problem was all lanes were only needed for a few hours per day and CBP may not have been willing or have no work rules which only allow max staffing for a few hours per day, all staff may have to work a full shift, I am speculating here, so take it as such.

Unfortunately, based on departure times from deep South America and Europe, between noon and 03:00pm at MIA on Fridays thru to Monday along with Wednesday will usually have high volumes.
Maybe with budget cuts the US will look at placing more pre-clearance facilities in third countries, it will allow those countries to foot a part of the bill - as their citizens benefit also -, give more US staff third country deployments, reduce the number of pax who need to clear in the US, reduce the number of a/c movements between terminals.
 
spink
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 2:38 am

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 143):
Why are US citizen ( i presume with a US passport ) questioned at all?
I don't believe that they can refuse US citizen entry intro their own home country.

They need to check US Citizens for various issues including but not limited to validity of passport, violations of laws, and trafficking.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 155):
But again, that has nothing to do with whether or not we have sterile transit, as the lower cost way to address that problem is simply staffing appropriately (and/or a greater emphasis on trusted traveler programs).

The US is heavily pushing on trusted traveler programs and program reciprocity. GE is very very affordable for anyone who is going to be traveling into or through the US even several times over a 5 year period. Right now there are 5 separate countries that are eligible for GE: US, Canada, Mexico, South Korea, and Netherlands. They are working to expand the countries that are eligible based on reciprocity agreements. It is likely that New Zealand and Australia will be the next two.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 158):
I do not think that you as the USA have the right to the choice to make live miserable for in international travelers.

Every country does and does do it to various extents depending on the nationality of the international traveler.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 158):
But when I am on a business trip your behavior is akin to non tariff hindrances to free trade. If an US citizen has a right to come to my country for business, I have the right to go to your country for business reasons. You do not have the right to exclude me for no apparent reason and you do not have the right to make my travels miserable.

The US is heavily going to a known traveler system as its primary method of easing security and immigration/customs requirements and delays. I don't know if you have a Dutch passport, but if you do, you can take part in GE and be through customs, immigration, and security within minutes.
 
flymia
Posts: 7131
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: MIA's New Immigration Hall Is A Disaster (photos)

Tue May 21, 2013 4:41 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 195):
If one would see you guys doing something about the jams, than one would stop complaining about it but it is been going on like this for years and it is getting worse.

We all agree that the lines are too long and that something needs to be done about it. No one is saying international flights are not important. No one. And if they are saying that they are wrong. Let me see if I can explain this better.

Some posters have said how crazy it is how when only connecting you still need to wait in these lines and clear customs and immigration. The majroity of connectins in U.S. airports from International airports are going to domestic cities. Few are going to international destinations. U.S. Airports are designed for primarly domestic flights and international departures. So the terminals are not made to hold people "in" who are only connecting in the U.S. for another country.
That is the only thing I and many others are talking about. It does not make sense for U.S. airports to be redesigned just to cater to a small amount of international-international connecting passengers.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 195):
First talking as international flight was hardly existing and only domestic was needed to bother about.
When that is refuted you talk about transit international to international was not important.

I never said international passengers are not important and what I am talking about little to do with the long lines.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 195):
Come with numbers this is just blah blah blah.

I don't need numbers to know that the vast majority of passengers at LAS, DEN, CLT, PHX, MCO, DTW, ATL etc.. are domestic. That is common sense in the Anet world.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 195):
When that is refuted you talk about transit international to international was not important.

This was the only thing I was talking about. I was always talking about international-international which IS a small market in the U.S.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)

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